IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-06-14

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-wai-wcag-irc
07:06:13 [Becky]
scribe: becky
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RRSAgent, make log world
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Meeting: 14 June WCAG F2F, Brussels
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RRSAgent, make log world
07:07:42 [wendy]
minutes from yesterday at - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html
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wendy has changed the topic to: minutes from yesterday - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html
07:09:11 [Christophe]
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07:12:50 [Becky]
resolution: change text for GL 3.2 to "Make the placement and behavior of content predictable"
07:13:24 [Becky]
take up GL 3.1
07:17:27 [wendy]
scribe: Becky
07:17:45 [wendy]
results from 3.1 latest survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0508/results
07:18:04 [wendy]
minutes from 2 june 2005 telecon - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html#item05
07:19:27 [wendy]
results from even more latest 3.1 survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0516/results
07:31:14 [mikba]
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07:47:12 [Becky]
resolution: move SC about acronyms and abbreviations to L3
07:51:07 [wendy]
Topic: Guideline 3.1
07:51:32 [wendy]
Chair: John, Gregg
07:52:19 [wendy]
Present: Gregg Vanderheiden, John Slatin, Mike Barta, Marc Walraven, Andi Snow-Weaver, Becky Gibson, Yvette Hoitink, Michael Cooper, Makoto Ueki, Ben Caldwell, Christophe Strobbe, Alex Li, Wendy Chisholm
08:04:14 [Becky]
resolution: adopt the proposed text, "A mechanism for finding the expanded form of acronyms and abbreviations is available." for this L3 SC
08:12:11 [Michael]
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08:40:26 [Yvette]
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08:41:30 [Christophe]
'We have no clear definition of "word", even for a single language let alone for all languages' (http://www.compapp.dcu.ie/~alex/CA163/ch2.html)
09:01:02 [Becky]
resolution: resolution: accept new wording and move SC "A mechanism is available for finding definitions for all words in text content."
09:01:03 [Becky]
to L3 with comment that techniques are needed
09:16:01 [Michael]
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09:27:23 [Becky]
resolution: accept for L2 SC2: The natural language of each foreign passage or phrase in the content can be programmatically determined. Foreign passages or phrases are passages or phrases in a language that is different from the language of the surrounding text. Note: This requirement does not apply to individual words or to phrases that have become part of the primary language of the content.
09:55:12 [Becky]
resolution: move the following proposed SC to Level 3 and not accepting the proposed L3 SC 5-8: "One or more of the following supplements is available when text requires reading ability at the upper secondary level:
09:55:13 [Becky]
1. a text summary that can be read by adults who have completed primary education.
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2. Graphical illustrations of concepts or processes that must be understood in order to use the content.
09:55:13 [Becky]
3. A spoken version of the text content."
09:56:01 [Becky]
resolution: do not accept proposed L3 SC 5 - For delivery units at the first or second level in a set of delivery units, text content can be read by adults with the reading ability expected for native speakers who have completed fewer than seven years of school. Include information in guidedoc as advisory.
09:56:40 [Becky]
resolution: do not accept proposed L3 SC6: For delivery units below the second level in a set of delivery units, text content can be read by adults with the reading ability expected for native speakers who have completed fewer than nine years of school. Include information in guidedoc as advisory.
09:57:25 [Becky]
resolution: do not accept proposal L3 SC7: current proposed SC7: Simplified graphical illustrations are available when text presents ideas or describes processes that users must understand in order to use the content.
09:57:48 [Becky]
do not accept proposed L3 SC8: A spoken version of text content is available.
10:04:58 [Becky]
resolution: Update the text of the L3 SC to: "When text requires reading ability at or above the upper secondary education level, one or more of the following supplements is available
10:05:00 [Becky]
1. a text summary that requires reading ability no higher than primary education level.
10:05:00 [Becky]
2. Graphical illustrations of concepts or processes that must be understood in order to use the content.
10:05:00 [Becky]
3. A spoken version of the text content."
10:05:00 [Becky]
with note that correct definitions of primary and secondary education level will be provided.
10:15:14 [wendy]
(discussing pronunciation) JIS 5.9.d) Extensible use of words that may be difficult for the intended user to read (such as proper nouns) should be avoided. When such words are used, the pronunciation must be specified at the first appearance of the word.
10:19:24 [wendy]
proposed XHTML technique: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1159
10:31:20 [wendy]
resolution: not accept proposed L3SC2 "A mechanism is available for finding the correct pronunciation of any word whose pronunciation cannot be determined from context." based on the assumption that we will create a testable criterion to address language specific issues.
10:35:15 [Becky]
resolution: accept proposed L3 SC 3 as, "Section titles are descriptive."
10:35:27 [Michael]
would like to explore if these belongs in 2.4
10:41:16 [Becky]
note: previous resolution replaces the old L3 SC2 text, "Section headings and link text are understandable when read by themselves or as a group (for example, in a screen reader's list of links or a table of contents). [V]" with the text "Section titles are descriptive."
10:43:35 [Becky]
resolution: not accept proposed L3 SC4: A mechanism is available to identify text that states important ideas or provides important information.
10:55:10 [Becky]
resolution: do not accept proposed Level 3 SC9: "Signed video is available for key pages or sections of pages."
10:58:34 [Becky]
resolution: delete current L3 SC3, "There is a statement associated with the content asserting that the Strategies for Reducing the Complexity of Content (the following list) were considered. [V]" (note entire list not repeated here).
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11:58:38 [Michael]
scribe: Michael
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12:00:33 [wendy]
Topic: Guideline 4.1
12:00:38 [wendy]
results of 4.1 survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/use-spec20050610/results
12:01:45 [JohannesK]
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Present: Johannes Koch
12:06:38 [wendy]
Present: John Slatin, Gregg Vanderheiden, Mike Barta, Marc Walraven, Andi Snow-Weaver, Becky Gibson, Yvette Hoitink, Michael Cooper, Makoto Ueki, Johannes Koch, Ben Caldwell, Christophe Strobbe, Alex Li, Wendy Chisholm
12:06:49 [wendy]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:06:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
12:07:43 [Michael]
resolution: do not remove Guideline 4.1
12:07:45 [wendy]
Regrets: many...
12:19:13 [wendy]
example for something not specified in dtd but in the spec is, "12.2.2 Nested links are illegal" <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#h-12.2.2>
12:34:44 [wendy]
christophe - you mean this? http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/
12:36:03 [wendy]
no licensing fees - http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/faq.html#item-3
12:36:47 [Christophe]
You can download the Flash file format specification version 7 if you agree to the license at http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/license2.html.
12:37:48 [Christophe]
If your software does not produce Flash, there is no reason to comply with the license agreement.
12:47:33 [wendy]
open source cms that generate valid code: http://www.designdelineations.com/design-notes/2005/01/15/need-open-source-cms-with-valid-xhtml/
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13:18:49 [Michael]
resolution: accept following wording proposed for L1 SC1, but at Level 2: "Except where the author has documented that a specification was violated for user agent compatibility (including compatibility with assistive technology), the content has: [I]
13:18:50 [Michael]
a. passed validity tests for the version of the technology in use (whether it be conforming to a schema, Document Type Definition (DTD), or other tests described in the specification), and
13:18:52 [Michael]
b. used technology features as defined in the specification."
13:22:25 [Michael]
action: create a Task Group to explore creating a L1 SC under Guideline 4.1 regarding well-formed content (knowing that "well-formed" needs to be broadened a bit to accommodate non-XML technologies) and submit as proposal to group
13:22:36 [Michael]
resolution: create a Task Group to explore creating a L1 SC under Guideline 4.1 regarding well-formed content (knowing that "well-formed" needs to be broadened a bit to accommodate non-XML technologies) and submit as proposal to group
13:27:52 [wendy]
fyi: to create a flash product (and abide by the license agreement) - "d You agree that your Product must output SWF files that can playback without Errors in the latest versions of the Microsoft Windows, Apple Macintosh, and Linux Macromedia Flash Players as listed at" therefore - it is part of the spec that you are "valid." so, can we just say, "well-formed XML-based languages and...
13:27:54 [wendy]
...follows spec for others..."
13:29:53 [wendy]
another possible phrase (taken from the flash spec) well-formed or viewable without errors (?)
13:30:07 [wendy]
s/viewable/playback
13:46:47 [Michael]
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13:54:13 [Michael]
resolution: remove 4.1 L3 SC1
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14:08:16 [bengt]
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14:10:14 [Michael]
topic: Guideline 4.2
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14:43:11 [mcmay]
best handled by the documents EOWG produce"
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15:39:26 [Christophe]
Joe, we started a discussion on the purpose of guideline 4.2, and this turned into a discussion on baselines.
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16:27:41 [ben]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
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