14:28:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc
14:28:15 <ericP> zakim, this will be DAWG
14:28:15 <Zakim> ok, ericP, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM already started
14:28:17 <DaveB> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:28:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P29
14:28:23 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P29 is DaveB
14:28:23 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
14:28:27 <Zakim> +??P30
14:28:31 <Zakim> -DaveB
14:28:31 <ericP> Meeting: DAWG
14:28:32 <Zakim> +DaveB
14:28:40 <AndyS> zakim, ??P30n is AndyS
14:28:40 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '??P30n'
14:28:41 <ericP> Chair: DaveB
14:28:49 <ericP> who's scribe?
14:28:50 <AndyS> zakim, ??P30 is AndyS
14:28:50 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:28:52 <DaveB> kendall
14:28:55 <Zakim> +HowardK
14:29:37 <Zakim> +EricP
14:29:42 <Zakim> +??P31
14:29:53 <DaveB> Zakim, agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:29:55 <HiroyukiS> Zakim, ??P31 is HiroyukiS
14:29:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:29:58 <Zakim> +HiroyukiS; got it
14:30:00 <Zakim> +??P33
14:30:05 <DaveB> Zakim, agenda + Next f2f?
14:30:05 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:30:10 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:30:11 <DaveB> Zakim, agenda + Last call for SPARQL QL
14:30:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:30:17 <DaveB> Zakim, agenda + FILTER()
14:30:17 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:30:21 <ericP> win go 20
14:30:31 <jeen> Zakim, ??P33 is jeen
14:30:31 <Zakim> +jeen; got it
14:30:57 <ericP> agenday request: grammar
14:31:36 <DaveB> Zakim, agenda + yacker grammer
14:31:36 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
14:31:52 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 1
14:31:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DaveB]
14:31:59 <kendall> ericp: is there "another" grammar from which the grammar in the spec is generated?
14:32:12 <kendall> i was looking for some text to cut and paste w/out all the production numbers and such :>
14:32:31 <DaveB> I saw "Regrets from JanneS, Yoshio, patH  tentative regrets: DanC, SteveH"
14:32:37 <DaveB> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:32:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, AndyS, HowardK, EricP, HiroyukiS, jeen, Kendall_Clark
14:32:38 <ericP> kendall, http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/sparqlTest/bnf?lang=perl
14:32:49 <kendall> ah, excellent. thx eric.
14:32:59 <ericP> kendall, but it's not generatd from that
14:33:19 <kendall> (we seem to have a quorom :>)
14:33:21 <AndyS> KC: It's produced by a perl (!) script from javacc.  Can take and tailor the perl script
14:33:36 <Zakim> +??P37
14:33:38 <AndyS> Could produce text if you need
14:33:42 <kendall> hmm, okay. no biggie. i'm using antlr to genereate a python parser (:>)
14:33:54 <DaveB> minutes was http://www.w3.org/2005/06/07-dawg-irc
14:33:56 <kendall> +HiroyukiS
14:33:56 <DaveB> for last week
14:34:02 <kendall> erp :>
14:34:59 <kendall> 2 requests for "more human readable" minutes from last week's meeting
14:35:06 <kendall> (er, at least 2 requests)
14:35:20 <kendall> so, formally, minutes from last week's meeting not accepted today
14:35:44 <kendall> ACTION: DanC To produce a more humanly readable version of last week's meeting minutes
14:35:51 <kendall> CONTINUE other actions from agenda
14:35:57 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 2
14:35:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Next f2f?" taken up [from DaveB]
14:36:23 <AndyS> Can fly Newark <-> Bristol nowadays
14:36:28 <kendall> Nice :>
14:36:32 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:36:56 <kendall> Jeen on holiday from 4 August to 8 August
14:37:06 <kendall> EricP on holiday during August
14:37:11 <AndyS> AndyS:Not week of August 15
14:37:19 <kendall> KendallC also on holiday in Houston for some 7 week period during August
14:37:20 <Zakim> +JosD
14:37:30 <ericP> my vacation is roughly the same dates as Jeen
14:37:40 <kendall> (Append attendees: +Jos)
14:39:12 <kendall> AndyS notes that cancelling a scheduled f2f is easier than slipping one in at the last minute)
14:39:43 <AndyS> VLDB: Aug 30 - Sept 2
14:39:44 <kendall> Souri also attending
14:39:49 <kendall> (sorry, I missed you too)
14:39:57 <kendall> er, he's not on IRC :>
14:40:01 <kendall> +Souri
14:40:20 <DaveB> Zakim, who's on the call?
14:40:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, AndyS, HowardK, EricP, HiroyukiS, jeen, Kendall_Clark, Souri, JosD
14:40:37 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 3
14:40:37 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Last call for SPARQL QL" taken up [from DaveB]
14:40:39 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 4
14:40:39 <Zakim> agendum 4. "FILTER()" taken up [from DaveB]
14:40:52 <DaveB> re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0338.html
14:40:57 <DaveB> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0341.html
14:41:08 <kendall> Request to put brackets around FILTER (is that right?)
14:41:14 <kendall> re: some ambiguities in the grammar
14:41:23 <kendall> this change affects tests we've already approved
14:41:29 <kendall> er, this change *would* affect them
14:41:49 <kendall> DaveB in favor of the change
14:41:52 <AndyS> Example: "{ FILTER q:name() :a :b }" 
14:42:14 <kendall> +q to ask about "compliance" (sorry!)
14:42:21 <kendall> q+ to ask about "compliance" (sorry!)
14:42:56 <DaveB> q-
14:43:17 <kendall> DaveB would rather have "brackets everywhere", doesn't like the special cases
14:43:29 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/sparqlTest?lang=perl&markup=html#prod-sparqlTest-Query
14:43:29 <kendall> AndyS thinks regex will be commonly used
14:43:48 <ericP> the above link is how i solved it
14:44:00 <ericP> (in the sparql grammar)
14:45:21 <DaveB> discussion of regex in python, seems it has a perl5 compat regex library
14:46:01 <kendall> (eek, sorry, badly scribing AND misleading the discussion!)
14:46:28 <kendall> Jeen: doesn't like the special cases either
14:46:56 <kendall> All the builtin functions are allowed w/out the outer brackets
14:47:09 <kendall> Proposal: All the builtin functions are allowed w/out the outer brackets
14:47:26 <DaveB> with FILTER
14:47:29 <kendall> Proposal: All the builtin functions are allowed w/out the outer brackets with FILTER
14:47:46 <kendall> Where all the builtin functions is...
14:47:46 <AndyS>  'STR' '(' Expression ')'
14:47:46 <AndyS> | 'LANG' '(' Expression ')'
14:47:46 <AndyS> | 'DATATYPE' '(' Expression ')'
14:47:46 <AndyS> | RegexExpression
14:47:46 <AndyS> | 'BOUND' '(' Var ')'
14:47:46 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/sparqlTest?lang=perl&markup=html#prod-sparqlTest-Query
14:47:47 <AndyS> | 'isURI' '(' Expression ')'
14:47:49 <AndyS> | 'isBLANK' '(' Expression ')'
14:47:51 <AndyS> | 'isLITERAL' '(' Expression ')' 
14:47:58 <kendall> (thanks andy!)
14:48:19 <AndyS>  "{ FILTER q:name() :a :b }"
14:48:43 <ericP> { FILTER (q:name()) :a :b }
14:49:35 <kendall> AndyS: can also use an explicit syntax for function calls
14:49:36 <AndyS> &q:name()
14:50:09 <kendall> I hate it. :>
14:50:27 <DaveB> it makes q:name and () - empty list, different from &q:name() function call
14:50:35 <AndyS> Separate function call and q:name as constant value
14:51:25 <kendall> Proposal2: To adopt an explict syntax for function calls (which makes q:name and () empty list separate from  &q:name() function call)
14:51:40 <kendall> Jeen doesn't like it
14:52:08 <kendall> Straw poll: proposal 1, proposal 2, neither
14:53:11 <kendall> (we rely too much on people being on irc. :>)
14:54:11 <DaveB> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:54:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, AndyS, HowardK, EricP, HiroyukiS, jeen, Kendall_Clark, Souri, JosD
14:54:34 <kendall> JosD: don't really care
14:54:45 <kendall> Souri: don't really care
14:54:59 <kendall> Kendall: proposal1+, proposal2-
14:55:15 <kendall> Souri: proposal1+, proposal2-neutral
14:55:30 <kendall> Jeen: prop1+, prop2-
14:55:42 <kendall> Hiroyuki: prop2-mild pref
14:55:47 <kendall> EricP: mild for p2
14:55:54 <kendall> Howard: prop2-
14:56:05 <kendall> AndyS: p1+, p2-
14:56:18 <kendall> DaveB: p2 mild pref, but doesn't care much
14:57:39 <kendall> Editors are  encouraged to take the straw poll as advice from the WG
14:57:45 <howardk> i'll talk louder jeen!
14:57:47 <jeen> :)
14:57:49 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 5
14:57:49 <Zakim> agendum 5. "yacker grammer" taken up [from DaveB]
14:58:04 <kendall> yacker grammar, even :>
14:58:34 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/sparqlTest?lang=perl&markup=html#prod-sparqlTest-Query
14:58:38 <kendall> (/me not scribing this very closely...)
14:58:50 <DaveB> eric epxlaining what yacker does
14:58:58 <DaveB> had trouble using javacc grammar
14:59:05 <DaveB> machine generated something that can validate sparql
14:59:39 <kendall> Issue seems to be whether there is a link in the spec to more than one grammar
14:59:49 <kendall> Editorial disagreement put to the WG (yes?)
15:00:11 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/sparqlTest/bnf?lang=perl
15:00:48 <kendall> AndyS prefers to reccomend one, rather than >1 grammars
15:01:26 <kendall> Jeen: can we add an informative link to other  grammar, but only one normative grammar
15:01:35 <kendall> ?
15:03:36 <kendall> Very confusing, Eric.
15:04:30 <jeen> EricP wants to add both grammars to WD, let users 'vote' on which should be in Rec.
15:06:30 <kendall> I'm confused: is the point to help yacc users, to have 2 grammars, or both?
15:06:36 <kendall> these are v. diff!
15:11:14 <kendall> Souri: do  these 2 grammars describe exactly the same language?
15:11:18 <kendall> Andy: No.
15:11:35 <kendall> Kendall: I want you guys as editors to pick one and recommend it. Period.
15:12:23 <kendall> Souri: Doesn't  mind 2 grammars, minds 2 languages
15:13:10 <DaveB> Zakim, take up item 3
15:13:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Last call for SPARQL QL" taken up [from DaveB]
15:13:35 <kendall> other grammar proposal w/drawn
15:13:59 <DaveB> andy's action done re rq23 unionqu decision
15:14:04 <kendall> Eric: is caught up or will be soon
15:14:16 <kendall> Andy has a comment from DanC and one from teh comments list pending
15:14:33 <kendall> There are some markup issues
15:15:45 <DaveB> andys said - need to sync with xmlres namespace when it gets a datespace one
15:17:06 <kendall> Most of the pending stuff seems a matter of small edits
15:17:39 <DaveB> reviewer SH regrets for today
15:17:45 <DaveB> KC - nothing hold up for last call
15:18:09 <DaveB> JB - mostly editorial, seem addressed
15:18:13 <kendall> JB: comments mostly editorial, all of which seem to have been addressed. Pretty much happy.
15:18:55 <kendall> SteveH: possible issue re: precision of ints & decimals...
15:19:03 <kendall> er, this is via EricP's recollection
15:20:02 <kendall> We don't know for certain Steve's review of the doc's status
15:20:28 <ericP> last of the @@s removed from section 11
15:20:59 <kendall> Discussion of creating a namespace URI for the results bindings format
15:21:39 <kendall> rq23 mentions this namespace, so it needs to be an acceptable one
15:23:56 <kendall> Gathering advice about LC timing...
15:24:12 <kendall> Andy: wants there to be a period during which all 3 docs are LC simultaneously
15:24:19 <kendall> DaveB: seems okay w/ that
15:25:16 <DaveB> kc - would like overlap to be a month
15:25:20 <DaveB> and protocol to have a longer lc
15:25:40 <DaveB> kc - lc period for query should be subsantial, 2-3 mths
15:25:49 <DaveB> and think protocol can go to lc in the next month
15:26:24 <DaveB> ... queyr is clean, good but complex.  seen buyin from rdql users, impl but not from other parts of community
15:27:15 <kendall> I'd like to see a 10 to 12 week LC period for the query doc, with at least 4 weeks of simultaneous LC for all 3 docs.
15:27:33 <DaveB> Revision 1.395  2005/06/14 15:19:37  eric
15:27:34 <DaveB> got rid of last @@s in section 11
15:27:36 <kendall> Proposed: to publish rq23 (1.395) as a LC doc
15:27:51 <kendall> Proposed: to publish rq23 (1.395), addressing FILTER and minor editorial changes,  as a LC doc
15:31:31 <kendall> KC, JosD volunteer to review (after the 17th for KC)
15:32:30 <kendall> Proposed: to publish rq23 (1.395), addressing FILTER and 3 editorial changes, with KC & JosD reviewing these changes post 1.395, as a LC doc
15:34:39 <kendall> publish: UMD, Bristol, HP, Agfa, NT&T, Howard the K, JeenB, W3C, (Souri in spirit!) 
15:34:49 <kendall> opposed: ()
15:34:53 <kendall> abstains: ()
15:35:03 <kendall> RESOLVED, go to last call for sparql ql
15:35:04 <kendall> yay
15:36:06 <kendall> Action AndyS: revise rq23 per fromUnionQuery decision
15:36:09 <kendall> FINISHED
15:36:28 <kendall> ACTION: ericp arrange publication
15:36:36 <kendall> Jeen to scribe, DanC to chair meeting next Tuesday
15:36:50 <kendall> ACTION: ericp work w/ danc on SOTD and LC
15:36:59 <kendall> ACTION: danc message to chairs (?)
15:37:11 <kendall> ACTION: AndyS editorial changes to rq23
15:37:25 <kendall> ACTION: KendallC to review post 1.395 doc
15:37:34 <kendall> ACTION: JosD to review post 1.395 doc
15:37:40 <kendall> did I get them all?
15:37:57 <kendall> (er, some of those may want to be combined...)
15:38:07 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:38:08 <Zakim> -JosD
15:38:10 <Zakim> -Souri
15:38:11 <Zakim> -DaveB
15:38:13 <Zakim> -HowardK
15:38:15 <Zakim> -HiroyukiS
15:38:15 <DanC_mtg> I'm not available next tuesday. I said as much in email.
15:38:16 <Zakim> -EricP
15:38:16 <DaveB> meeting over
15:38:47 <DaveB> DanC_mtg: oops...
15:39:05 <DanC_mtg> oh well... if there's energy for meeting next week, I can find a chair again
15:40:40 <DaveB> ericP can you drive Zakim or RRSagent to print agendas and make irc logs public?
15:40:46 <DaveB> s/agendas/actions/
15:41:10 <Zakim> -jeen
15:42:50 <DanC_mtg> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:42:58 <DanC_mtg> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:42:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-minutes.html DanC_mtg
15:45:57 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
15:48:18 <DaveB> Zakim, please show the actions
15:48:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please show the actions', DaveB
15:48:26 <DaveB> RRSAgent:  please show the actions
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC To produce a more humanly readable version of last week's meeting minutes [1]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T14-35-44
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to revise rq23 per fromUnionQuery decision [2]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-06
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericp arrange publication [3]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-28
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericp work w/ danc on SOTD and LC [4]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-50
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: danc message to chairs (?) [5]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-59
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS editorial changes to rq23 [6]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-11
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to review post 1.395 doc [7]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-25
15:48:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JosD to review post 1.395 doc [8]
15:48:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-34
15:49:14 <DaveB> RRSAgent: please make logs public
15:49:18 <DaveB> RRSAgent: please leave us
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC To produce a more humanly readable version of last week's meeting minutes [1]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T14-35-44
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to revise rq23 per fromUnionQuery decision [2]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-06
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericp arrange publication [3]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-28
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericp work w/ danc on SOTD and LC [4]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-50
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: danc message to chairs (?) [5]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-59
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS editorial changes to rq23 [6]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-11
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to review post 1.395 doc [7]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-25
15:49:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JosD to review post 1.395 doc [8]
15:49:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/14-dawg-irc#T15-37-34