IRC log of eo on 2005-06-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:29:38 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
12:29:41 [Helle]
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12:30:26 [Zakim]
12:30:45 [Zakim]
12:30:51 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
12:30:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Helle_Bjarno, Shawn
12:30:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Helle, RRSAgent, Zakim, Justin, Andrew, shadi, shawn
12:31:06 [shawn]
justin - are you up for scribing?
12:31:34 [Zakim]
12:31:43 [shawn]
shawn has changed the topic to: revised agenda:
12:32:13 [Justin]
zakim, ??P3 is Justin
12:32:13 [Zakim]
+Justin; got it
12:32:49 [Zakim]
12:32:57 [judy_away]
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12:33:13 [Justin]
Scribe: Justin
12:33:31 [Justin]
ScribeNick: Justin
12:33:36 [Justin]
Meeting: EOWG
12:33:41 [Justin]
Chair: Judy
12:33:43 [Zakim]
12:34:22 [judy_away]
zakim, who's here?
12:34:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Helle_Bjarno, Shawn, Justin, Judy, Shadi
12:34:22 [Justin]
12:34:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see judy_away, Helle, RRSAgent, Zakim, Justin, Andrew, shadi, shawn
12:34:35 [Zakim]
12:35:01 [Justin]
Regrets: Henk, Wayne, Ron
12:35:31 [achuter]
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12:35:47 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
12:35:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Helle_Bjarno, Shawn, Justin, Judy, Shadi, Bingham
12:35:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see achuter, judy_away, Helle, RRSAgent, Zakim, Justin, Andrew, shadi, shawn
12:35:55 [Zakim]
12:35:56 [Harvey]
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12:36:10 [Andrew]
Zakim, ??p6 is Andrew
12:36:10 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
12:36:54 [shawn]
REVISED agenda:
12:39:35 [Justin]
Topic: Outreach Updates
12:40:25 [Justin]
Helle: We have done the first part of translations of the australian accessibility bar.
12:40:43 [Zakim]
12:41:08 [Justin]
Judy: What are you translating?
12:41:41 [Zakim]
12:42:06 [Justin]
Helle: Microsoft is helping us out with this.
12:42:34 [Justin]
Alan: I am translating this also.
12:43:28 [Justin]
Judy: A lot of people are looking for help getting assistive technology translated.
12:43:28 [judy_away]
s/what are you translating?/how is microsoft covering this?
12:43:58 [Andrew]
The toolbar (origial version) is available at
12:44:47 [Justin]
Topic: Best Practices Training Exchange
12:45:42 [Justin]
Judy: We have done some of these before. We have been rotating the location and the format. This one is less exchange and more best practices.
12:45:54 [Justin]
Judy: It will be focused on evaluation and retrofitting.
12:46:30 [Justin]
Judy: This will be more of a beginning level.
12:47:03 [Justin]
Judy: We have gotten some very valuable feedback on the program before. We'd like any feedback that EOWG might have on the program.
12:47:23 [Justin]
BPE Program:
12:49:03 [Justin]
Harvey: Is this information going to Brazil also?
12:49:24 [Justin]
Judy: The people who are organizing this have lots of contacts over in Brazil.
12:49:43 [Justin]
Alan: This seems to be largely about evaluation but it's not clear in the title.
12:50:31 [Justin]
Judy: We can try and make that more clear.
12:51:12 [achuter]
zakim, mute me
12:51:12 [Zakim]
sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter'
12:51:27 [Justin]
Sylvie: In the announcement it talks a lot about evaluation but not as much about retrofitting. The program talks a lot about retrofitting.
12:52:31 [Justin]
Helle: Who is doing it?
12:52:41 [Justin]
Judy: Shadi and Shawn.
12:53:11 [Justin]
Helle: Maybe we should do this in the nordic countries.
12:53:35 [Justin]
Judy: We need to do one in the fall. We are looking at one location but it's not set yet.
12:53:42 [Justin]
Helle: A lot is happening.
12:53:56 [achuter]
zakim, mute Alan
12:53:56 [Zakim]
Alan should now be muted
12:54:36 [achuter]
zakim, unmute Alan
12:54:36 [Zakim]
Alan should no longer be muted
12:55:57 [Justin]
Topic: WAI Home Page Announcements & Highlights
12:56:07 [achuter]
zakim, mute Alan
12:56:07 [Zakim]
Alan should now be muted
12:56:17 [Justin]
12:56:23 [Helle]
zakim, mute helle
12:56:23 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should now be muted
12:57:26 [Justin]
Judy: We are looking the announcements in a box on the right column.
12:58:42 [Zakim]
12:58:47 [Zakim]
12:59:31 [Justin]
Shawn: Check out the prototype with the announcements & highlights.
12:59:31 [Zakim]
13:00:47 [Justin]
Shawn: We had talked about where to put the announcements and be able to list upcoming meetings and some of the documents in progress.
13:00:59 [Justin]
Shawn: We didn't want the highlights to be below the scroll.
13:01:41 [Justin]
Shawn: A lot of people really liked the meetings and documents in progress on the home page.
13:02:31 [Justin]
Shawn: PRO - this gets the highlights way up on the top. It gets the announcements above the scroll.
13:02:50 [Justin]
Shawn: What do people think about the new placement of things
13:02:59 [Justin]
Harvey: Yes
13:03:28 [Justin]
Doyle: I like it. I tend to this of the right side of the page as less important or less timely.
13:04:22 [Justin]
Judy: What is happening when the page is linearized?
13:04:53 [Justin]
Shawn: Now it is before the H1 and we will fix it so it is after the H1.
13:05:07 [shawn]
q+ to agree with doyle and to clarify that some announcements will be in highlights
13:05:53 [Justin]
Andrew: Someone with a screen reader or an older browser it will be a different order then how I see it now.
13:06:49 [Justin]
Shawn: Site Nav, the H1, What WAI Does, Announcements and then Highlights.
13:06:49 [mcmullin]
13:07:55 [Justin]
Shawn: The way we designed it is, that What WAI Does would be easy to see and then easy to mask out once you were familiar with the site.
13:09:12 [Justin]
Shawn: Doyle's comment is true. Whenever we have an annoucement of note those will be a highlight.
13:09:15 [shawn]
ack me
13:09:15 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to agree with doyle and to clarify that some announcements will be in highlights
13:09:30 [shawn]
ack mumullin
13:10:38 [Justin]
Barry: I have a small screen, with firefox, and when i turn the text up one level the annoucnements dropped below the scroll. But because key announcements will be highlights, I think that should be ok.
13:12:26 [Justin]
Shawn: I changed Working Group meetings to Events, Meeting, and Presentations.
13:12:52 [Justin]
Shawn: I want to confirm that everyone is comfortable with the new parameters.
13:13:42 [Justin]
Topic: Highlights Approach
13:14:04 [Justin]
Shawn: (Going over purpose.)
13:14:56 [Justin]
Shawn: Worded in a way to be a lead-in to get people to follow the link and read the document.
13:15:27 [Justin]
Shawn: We wanted to make sure that targeted the different audiences.
13:15:28 [shawn]
13:16:37 [Justin]
Shawn: The prototype has some unrefined samples.
13:17:29 [Justin]
Shawn: We need to know what topics we want to cover and how this will play out.
13:18:38 [Justin]
Judy; What are people's thoughts when we look at this abstractly? This is to get people to come back to the home page.
13:19:43 [Helle]
zakim, unmute Helle
13:19:43 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should no longer be muted
13:20:25 [Justin]
Barry: I like the highlights that are there. I like the lead-in. It works as bait for me.
13:20:42 [Justin]
Barry: The RSS feeds are the first thing that I look for.
13:20:49 [Justin]
Barry you and I think the same way. :)
13:21:32 [shawn]
ACTION: shawn & WSTF look at putting RSS feed link at top
13:22:41 [Zakim]
13:23:22 [Justin]
Judy: I really like the zing of the title's of the leadins.
13:23:23 [Justin]
13:24:21 [Justin]
Andrew: I think they are well written and i like the titles.
13:24:45 [Justin]
Barry: I think the first one is a little hard to read.
13:25:01 [Justin]
Judy: Maybe it didn't make the zing transformation.
13:25:57 [Justin]
Judy; What do people think of the last one?
13:26:06 [Justin]
Judy: The blog one.
13:26:14 [Justin]
Doyle: The brackets caught my attention.
13:26:56 [Justin]
Shawn: That was more of a note to myself.
13:27:39 [Justin]
Shawn: What about using graphical element for this highlight?
13:27:45 [Justin]
How about Blogging Tool
13:29:04 [Justin]
Shawn: I think for the Captcha highlight will need an image.
13:29:43 [Justin]
Doyle: The graphical element can make a huge difference. (eg Slashdot)
13:31:05 [Justin]
Shawn: Comments on size.
13:31:14 [Justin]
Barry: Just right.
13:32:32 [Justin]
Doyle: The one at the bottom that spreads off the right. The fact that it spreads out to the right that makes it possible to see...the top one seems too long because it can't go across into the second third column.
13:33:25 [Justin]
Helle: How would I look at this if I were a foreign language newbie? This might be a little high level for me.
13:34:36 [Justin]
Judy: It seems like the WSTF wanted to have a mix of knowledge levels.
13:34:59 [shawn]
13:35:50 [Justin]
Shawn: Maybe add a parameter that the top item be more newbie friendly.
13:36:05 [shawn]
ACTION: shawn/justin - add to highlights parameter that usually first highlight should be newbie-friendly
13:36:30 [Justin]
Sylvie: The text of the highlight is not easy to understnad.
13:37:39 [Justin]
Andrew: I think they are very good.
13:37:53 [Justin]
Andrew: I prefer them shorter rather than longer.
13:38:24 [Justin]
Judy: The short ones I am more likely to read.
13:38:36 [judy]
zakim, who's here?
13:38:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Judy, Shadi, Bingham, Andrew, Sylvie_Duchateau (muted), Mullin, Shawn
13:38:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mcmullin, Harvey, judy, Helle, RRSAgent, Zakim, Justin, Andrew, shadi, shawn
13:39:06 [shawn]
ACTION: shawn/justin - add to highlights parameter that usually first highlight would
13:39:14 [shawn]
rrsagent, drop action 3
13:39:24 [Justin]
Barry: When I come to this page first...the first one is so long that i don't know that there is a highlight below.
13:42:31 [Justin]
Justin: Putting one sentence to a paragraph to make it shorter to skim.
13:42:50 [Justin]
Justin: Making it more of a personal voice instead of formal corporate.
13:43:10 [Justin]
Helle: I like the breaking it up.
13:43:39 [Justin]
Barry: Maybe even putting a by line to make it more like a group blog.
13:44:44 [Justin]
Helle: Where do these highlights come from? Are they from WAI working groups are they from certain people?
13:45:26 [Justin]
Judy: The staff would be writing them.
13:45:45 [Justin]
Judy: It would be about WAI work.
13:46:55 [Justin]
Judy: We might do some work with the Mobile Web Initiative.
13:47:22 [Justin]
Shawn: We might have some past highlights...where it could be explained.
13:48:21 [Justin]
Helle: The fellowship of the components should identify who is working on the components document.
13:49:53 [Zakim]
13:50:30 [Justin]
Judy: Are there highlights people wish we were doing?
13:50:34 [judy]
13:51:06 [Justin]
Judy: Is the text on the W3C home page easier to read?
13:53:03 [Justin]
Helle: I think the language is know they are having this work shop.
13:53:13 [shawn]
q+ one more question?
13:54:33 [Justin]
Shawn: with the RSS feeds you have the latest at the top.
13:54:41 [Andrew]
q+, to ask about the W3C vs WAI style
13:55:25 [Helle]
zakim, mute helle
13:55:25 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should now be muted
13:55:28 [Justin]
Shawn: with the W3C home page you can get the really important stuff to stay at the top.
13:55:46 [Justin]
Shawn: Maybe have a newbie box at the top?
13:56:06 [Justin]
Andrew: Would it change regularly?
13:56:16 [Justin]
Shawn: Just stay there.
13:56:17 [Helle]
zakim, unmute helle
13:56:18 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should no longer be muted
13:56:21 [Justin]
Andrew: Im luke warm.
13:57:01 [Justin]
Helle: Would it be confusing because you have a highlight thats not really a highlight.
13:57:42 [Justin]
Judy: I think it did work.
13:57:56 [Justin]
Judy: It was like an invisible technique.
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14:00:01 [Justin]
Justin: With RSS, i wouldn't even go to the page if it didn't have a new entry because I wouldn't have gotten a notification in my reader.
14:00:57 [Zakim]
14:00:57 [Justin]
Andrew: Do we want to have a similar style or format as the w3c home page?
14:01:16 [Justin]
zakim, IPcaller is Barry
14:01:16 [Zakim]
+Barry; got it
14:01:17 [Zakim]
14:01:17 [Zakim]
14:01:26 [Helle]
zakim, mute helle
14:01:26 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should now be muted
14:01:40 [Zakim]
14:01:58 [Justin]
Shawn: I made something simiar to internationalzation.
14:03:28 [Zakim]
14:03:36 [Justin]
Topic: Web Site Task Force
14:03:50 [Justin]
Shawn: Anyone interested in joining WSTF?
14:04:23 [Justin]
..that was Judy.
14:04:39 [Justin]
Judy: This would help to off load some of the work from EO
14:06:13 [Justin]
Judy: The WSTF could handle some of the feedback as well.
14:06:53 [Zakim]
14:07:25 [Justin]
Judy: Shawn can contact some people offline to who might balance out the view points.
14:07:43 [Justin]
Topic: WAI Search
14:09:05 [Justin]
Shawn: Justin added a more customized prototype. I mocked up a more interim solution.
14:11:53 [Justin]
Harvey: Is there member-confidential stuff that would be included?
14:12:05 [Justin]
Shawn: This would be for public things only right now.
14:12:29 [Justin]
Judy: We could maybe do a parallel in member space some time.
14:13:03 [Helle]
zakim, unmute helle
14:13:03 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should no longer be muted
14:15:08 [Justin]
ACTION: Justin, look into google auto translation for search.
14:16:33 [Justin]
Sylvie: I am getting the results in french.
14:17:38 [Justin]
Shawn: The one we sent on tuesday is how might be able to customize it for the future.
14:18:21 [Justin]
Shawn: Probably won't have customized results right away.
14:19:20 [shawn]
14:19:53 [Helle]
zakim, mute helle
14:19:53 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should now be muted
14:19:58 [Justin]
Topic: Logo Design
14:20:53 [Justin]
Shawn: the first column just has the acronym and the second column adds the word web accessibility initiative.
14:22:06 [Justin]
Shawn: Someone pointed out this is uses lowercase.
14:22:23 [Justin]
Harvey: I like lower case it doesn't shout.
14:22:48 [Justin]
Doyle: When its full written out, i like the first letter fully written out
14:22:59 [Justin]
Doyle: in Web Accessibility Initative.
14:23:06 [Justin]
Harvey: Agrees
14:23:59 [Justin]
Andrew: Lower case comes across more friendly
14:24:23 [Justin]
Judy: Does wai in lower case make it look less authoritative?
14:25:02 [Justin]
Doyle: I don't think it would matter.
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14:25:27 [Justin]
Judy: I think the letter options in lower case look more attractive.
14:26:04 [Justin]
Doyle: the word is initiative is right justified.
14:27:07 [Justin]
Shadi: I don't remember seeing a version with uppercase. It would be nice to have a comparison
14:27:12 [Justin]
Judy: Would be nice.
14:27:44 [Justin]
Shawn: A is not as refined.
14:27:51 [Justin]
Shawn: B is more refined from last week.
14:28:27 [Helle]
zakim unmute helle
14:28:53 [Justin]
Justin: I like B. Its more fun and colorful
14:28:53 [Helle]
zakim, unmute helle
14:28:53 [Zakim]
Helle_Bjarno should no longer be muted
14:29:03 [Justin]
Shadi: I agree.
14:29:15 [Justin]
Andrew: I think the font is harder to read.
14:29:24 [Justin]
Helle: I think its harder to read.
14:29:30 [Justin]
Judy: What if the font were clearer?
14:29:37 [Justin]
Helle: I think it would help.
14:30:42 [Justin]
Topic: Scribe Recruitment
14:30:52 [Justin]
Judy: Any new volunteers?
14:31:29 [Justin]
Topic: Next meeting
14:31:39 [Justin]
Judy: June 17th
14:31:50 [Justin]
Judy: hopefully be back on some of our documents.
14:31:53 [Zakim]
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14:32:00 [Zakim]
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14:32:03 [Zakim]
14:32:04 [Zakim]
14:32:04 [Zakim]
14:32:06 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
14:32:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doyle_Saylor, Helle_Bjarno, Shawn, Justin, Judy, Shadi, Bingham, Andrew, Sylvie_Duchateau, Alan, Mullin, [IPcaller], Barry
14:32:25 [mcmullin]
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14:32:27 [Justin]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:32:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Justin
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rrsagent, make logs world
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