18:46:47 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 18:46:47 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/09-wai-wcag-irc 18:47:14 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0706.html 18:47:25 agenda+ Agenda review and announcements (5 minutes) 18:47:33 agenda+ Techniques Task Force (5 minutes) 18:47:57 Yvette has joined #wai-wcag 18:48:05 Hello everyone 18:48:07 agenda+ GL 2.4 (25 minutes) [http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/navigation-mechanisms20050531/results] 18:48:28 agenda+ GL 2.1 (25 minutes) [http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/keyboardop20050607/results] 18:49:02 agenda+ GL 1.1 (25 minutes) [http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/textequiv20050607/results] 18:49:08 rellero has joined #wai-wcag 18:49:16 Hi 18:49:23 agenda+ GL 1.4 (25 minutes) [http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/contrast20050608/results] 18:49:48 agenda+ General Issues (25 minutes) http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/genclose20050608/results 18:50:03 hi Yvette 18:50:16 agenda+ Conformance Issues (25 minutes) [http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/conf20050608/results] 18:50:25 agenda+ GL 4.2 18:50:32 agenda+ F2F preparation and comments 18:50:44 Hi Robertos :-) 18:50:59 Ciao 18:51:51 Meeting: WCAG WG weekly telecon 18:53:15 regrets: Roberto Castaldo 18:53:34 jslatin has joined #wai-wcag 18:53:37 Michael has joined #wai-wcag 18:56:16 Hi, all. 18:56:21 hi John 18:56:32 How are you, Roberto? Thanks for your work on GL 2.1. 18:56:37 Sebastiano has joined #wai-wcag 18:56:44 well thanks, writing my second accessibility book :) 18:57:08 Your *second* one? Wow. 18:57:58 yep, first one was the first book in 4 format (4-in-one): paper, xhtml 1.0, tagged pdf and microsoft reader (all in one unique edition) :) 18:58:15 zakim, who's here? 18:58:15 sorry, Sebastiano, I don't know what conference this is 18:58:16 On IRC I see Sebastiano, Michael, jslatin, rellero, Yvette, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, rscano, wendy, ben 18:58:31 ciao seb 18:59:26 ciao Rob :) 18:59:33 congraz on your second book RS 18:59:50 ben_ has joined #wai-wcag 18:59:53 I'm back... 18:59:57 b 18:59:58 wb 19:00:38 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started 19:00:41 +Wendy 19:00:49 rcastaldo has joined #wai-wcag 19:01:00 Hi everybody :) 19:01:11 Ciao italians :) 19:01:14 +Andi_Snow_Weaver 19:01:17 + +1.202.558.aaaa - is perhaps Bengt_Farre 19:01:28 +Yvette_Hoitink 19:01:31 Ciao Roberto#3 19:01:36 :D 19:01:46 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 19:01:46 Ciao Yvette 19:01:48 who thinks he is me ? 19:01:50 +??P7 19:02:01 zakim, ??P7 is Ben_and_Gregg 19:02:01 +Ben_and_Gregg; got it 19:02:08 +Michael_Cooper 19:02:14 +John_Slatin 19:02:30 I'm sorry, i wont be able to "hear" you... only irc tonight for me 19:02:37 zakim, who's here? 19:02:37 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin 19:02:39 On IRC I see Andi, rcastaldo, ben_, Sebastiano, Michael, jslatin, rellero, Yvette, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, rscano, wendy 19:02:42 RCastaldo, did you get my mail? 19:02:52 + +1.202.558.aabb - is perhaps Bengt_Farre 19:02:53 it might be tough to follow on IRC because of the new minute-strategy 19:03:03 No, Yvette.. 19:03:12 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:03:12 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre 19:03:24 is one of the robertos on the phone? 19:03:46 i'm trying but said: passcode not valid 19:03:55 It's not me 19:03:56 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:03:56 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre 19:04:05 + +1.202.558.aacc - is perhaps Bengt_Farre 19:04:07 -Bengt_Farre 19:04:08 Becky has joined #wai-wcag 19:04:20 chg my other name while Im out 19:04:30 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:04:30 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre 19:04:34 zakim, mute Bengt 19:04:34 'Bengt' is ambiguous, wendy 19:04:39 lots of echo... 19:04:43 zakim, Bengt_Farre is really Sebastiano 19:04:43 sorry, bengt, I do not recognize a party named 'Bengt_Farre' 19:04:47 zakim, drop Bengt 19:04:47 'Bengt' is ambiguous, wendy 19:04:56 zakim, mute me 19:04:56 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 19:04:56 zakim, mute me 19:04:57 sorry, Sebastiano, I do not see a party named 'Sebastiano' 19:04:59 zakim, drop Bengt_Farre 19:04:59 'Bengt_Farre' is ambiguous, wendy 19:05:01 i think everyone should talk at once and we should record it for posterity 19:05:01 i think the second bengt_farre is me 19:05:10 rscano - can you drop please? 19:05:11 zakim, unmute me 19:05:11 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 19:05:16 -Bengt_Farre 19:05:17 zakim, Bengt_Farre is really Sebastiano 19:05:18 +Sebastiano; got it 19:05:25 ok 19:05:27 i will recall now 19:05:30 ok 19:05:47 + +1.202.558.aadd - is perhaps Sebastiano 19:05:50 + +1.202.558.aaee - is perhaps Sebastiano 19:05:52 zakim, mute me 19:05:52 'Sebastiano' is ambiguous, Sebastiano 19:06:00 -Sebastiano 19:06:08 echo echo cho o 19:06:15 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:06:15 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Sebastiano, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Sebastiano 19:06:18 + +1.202.558.aaff - is perhaps Sebastiano 19:06:20 hmm, we are all going to be named the same :) 19:06:29 zakim, Sebastiano is Roberto_Scano 19:06:29 sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named 'Sebastiano' 19:06:44 and then there's three! 19:07:05 :) 19:07:05 Do we have three echos now? 19:07:09 zakim, Sebastian* is really dialpads 19:07:09 sorry, bengt, I do not recognize a party named 'Sebastian*' 19:07:09 yes 19:07:14 zakim, who's here? 19:07:14 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Sebastiano, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Sebastiano, Sebastiano 19:07:16 On IRC I see Becky, Andi, rcastaldo, ben_, Sebastiano, Michael, jslatin, rellero, Yvette, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, rscano, wendy 19:07:23 ok I hangup and i call when lines will be best :) 19:07:28 zakim, mute me 19:07:28 sorry, rellero, I do not see a party named 'rellero' 19:07:35 -Sebastiano 19:07:38 RS, I will let you know on IRC when to rejoin 19:07:43 I am seb 19:07:45 -Sebastiano 19:07:54 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:07:54 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Sebastiano, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin 19:08:00 zakim, Sebastiano is Bengt 19:08:00 +Bengt; got it 19:08:08 +Becky_Gibson 19:08:19 nope that was really sebastiano 19:08:32 zakim, Bengt is Sebastiano 19:08:32 +Sebastiano; got it 19:08:42 +??P14 19:08:58 zakim, ??P14 is Bengt_Farre 19:08:58 +Bengt_Farre; got it 19:09:26 shut down dialpad software and start over again it will select a new number 19:09:32 +Matt 19:09:38 + +1.202.558.aagg - is perhaps Sebastiano 19:09:51 zakim, + +1.202.558.aagg is rellero 19:09:51 I don't understand '+ +1.202.558.aagg is rellero', rellero 19:10:03 zakim +1.202.558.aagg is rellero 19:10:07 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:10:07 On the phone I see Wendy, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Sebastiano, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Bengt_Farre, Matt, Sebastiano 19:10:10 zakim, +1.202.558.aagg is rellero 19:10:10 sorry, Yvette, I do not recognize a party named '+1.202.558.aagg' 19:10:26 :-I 19:10:43 please - no one else call in with dialpad. 19:10:48 it really confuses zakim. 19:11:09 roberto scano - when we get to 2.1 i'll ask either sebastiano or roberto ellero to hang up. 19:11:14 so that you can call in. 19:11:16 ok 19:11:22 zakim, 1.202.558.aagg is rellero 19:11:22 sorry, rellero, I do not recognize a party named '1.202.558.aagg' 19:11:29 zakim, take up item 1 19:11:29 agendum 1. "Agenda review and announcements (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy] 19:11:33 can someone tell zakim managers that dialpad uses a trunk 19:12:42 bengt - if you have a summary of what you think the issue is, i can send it to our systeam. the more info, the better - to help them address the problem. 19:12:51 ok 19:13:59 rellero has left #wai-wcag 19:14:17 scribe: wendy 19:14:40 rellero has joined #wai-wcag 19:15:34 discussion about what we're minuting: wcag wg dialog rather than individual comments. focus on resolutions and actions. 19:15:46 zakim, mute me 19:15:46 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 19:15:52 zakim, take up next item 19:15:52 agendum 2. "Techniques Task Force (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy] 19:16:40 minutes from yesterday's telecon: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html 19:17:09 discussed - Review of SC with respect to Scripting and baseline, review of techniques related to guideline 1.3 19:17:15 plans for f2f 19:17:40 gregg has joined #wai-wcag 19:18:02 becky asks for input and feedback on post about scripting: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0680.html 19:18:22 please look at before F2F. becky prepping a proposal/draft for discussion next week. 19:18:51 +Alex_Li 19:19:14 the previous draft doesn't include 2.4, if someone wants to tackle before next week. 19:19:17 zakim, next item 19:19:17 agendum 3. "GL 2.4 (25 minutes)" taken up [from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/navigation-mechanisms20050531/results] 19:19:18 zakim, unmute me 19:19:20 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 19:19:33 zakim, ping in 20 minutes 19:19:33 ok, wendy 19:19:44 results of 2.4 survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/navigation-mechanisms20050531/results 19:19:58 Proposed wording Level 1 SC 1: Navigational features can be programmatically determined. 16 propose, 2 current 19:20:17 concern about "navigational features" 19:21:11 ack j 19:23:20 resolution: adopt proposed wording for Level 1 SC 1: Navigational features can be programmatically determined. with definition of "navigational features" 19:23:22 mcmay has joined #wai-wcag 19:23:32 discussing - Proposed wording Level 2 SC 1: Multiple ways to locate specific content within a set of delivery units are available. 19:23:46 14 proposed, 4 current 19:24:56 issues - "specific content" and "more than one" vs "multiple" 19:25:45 q+ 19:25:47 ack j 19:27:14 ack w 19:28:10 ack al 19:30:00 discussion of what was intended by "specific" content - in a sense it is "content that is desired by the user" but didn't want to include user in the SC. all adjectives are likely to be subjective. 19:30:27 delete the word "specific"? 19:30:48 no one disagrees 19:32:02 resolution: adopt Proposed wording Level 2 SC 1: More than one way is available to locate content within a set of delivery units. 19:32:23 discussing - Proposed wording Level 2 SC 2: Blocks of material that are repeated on multiple perceivable units are implemented so that they can be bypassed. 19:32:51 Or "A mechanism is provided to bypass blocks of material that are repeated on multiple perceivable units."? 19:33:12 q+ to say "a mechanism is provided to bypass blocks of material that are repeated on multiple perceivable units" 19:33:21 16 proposed, 2 current 19:33:36 issues - editorial (wording), level 19:35:10 q+ to say I like the union of Ben and Wendy's comments, ending up with "Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units can be bypassed by the user." 19:35:41 q+ "s/material/content 19:35:44 oops 19:35:52 q+ to say "s/material/content" 19:35:59 ack s/material 19:36:02 ack "s 19:36:06 ack "s/m 19:36:17 ack yv 19:36:17 Yvette, you wanted to say "a mechanism is provided to bypass blocks of material that are repeated on multiple perceivable units" 19:37:03 ack mi 19:37:03 Michael_Cooper, you wanted to say I like the union of Ben and Wendy's comments, ending up with "Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units can be bypassed by 19:37:07 ... the user." 19:37:16 q- 19:38:08 discussion about author vs user agent responsibilities. 19:38:47 q+ to raise "perceivable" vs "delivery units" issue 19:38:50 q+ 19:39:06 ack mi 19:39:06 Michael_Cooper, you wanted to raise "perceivable" vs "delivery units" issue 19:39:29 ack an 19:39:33 wendy, you asked to be pinged at this time 19:40:06 q+ 19:40:48 ack w 19:42:59 resolution: adopt Proposed wording for Level 2 SC 2: Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units are implemented so that they can be bypassed. [discuss perceivable unit vs delivery unit in guide doc] 19:44:37 discussing - Should we move current level 3 SC3 to Level 2 SC 3: Delivery units have descriptive titles? 19:44:54 12 yes (move), 5 no 19:45:29 js highlights that this is related to next item. 19:45:36 will treat together 19:45:56 (next item) - Proposed wording Level 2 SC 4: For each programmatic reference to another delivery unit, a title or description of that delivery unit can be programatically determined. 19:46:10 -Michael_Cooper 19:46:16 ack j 19:46:41 q+ to say "navigation is of no use unless you know where you are and where you ended up" 19:46:53 discussion about importance of adding titles. 19:47:37 +Michael_Cooper 19:47:46 ack y 19:47:46 Yvette, you wanted to say "navigation is of no use unless you know where you are and where you ended up" 19:50:15 discussion about accessibility issue (vs usability issue) about knowing where you will navigate to. 19:53:15 concern about "description of that delivery unit" being required for every link. 19:53:38 clarification that this addressess "click here" issue 19:53:59 q+ 19:54:16 q+ 19:55:56 q- 19:56:06 q- 19:56:42 Tim has joined #wai-wcag 19:57:02 resolution: concern about proposals. not ready to adopt. need more discussion. Proposed wording Level 2 SC 4: For each programmatic reference to another delivery unit, a title or description of that delivery unit can be programatically determined. and Should we move current level 3 SC3 to Level 2 SC 3: Delivery units have descriptive titles? [pending] 19:57:32 discussing - Should we remove level 3 SC 1: When content is arranged in a sequence that affects its meaning, that sequence can be determined programmatically? 19:58:16 15 proposed, 1 current 20:00:15 +Dave_MacDonald 20:00:24 David has joined #wai-wcag 20:01:01 -Michael_Cooper 20:01:04 resolution: adopt removing level 3 SC 1: When content is arranged in a sequence that affects its meaning, that sequence can be determined programmatically and move it to principle 3 20:01:19 discussing - Should we remove level 2 SC 1: Documents that have five or more section headings and are presented as a single delivery unit include a table of contents with links to important sections of the document.? 20:01:30 17 yes, 1 no 20:01:57 resolution: remove level 2 SC 1: Documents that have five or more section headings and are presented as a single delivery unit include a table of contents with links to important sections of the document. 20:02:10 discussing - Should we remove level 2 SC 1: Images have structure that users can access? 20:04:28 resolution: remove level 3 SC 3 about images having structure, level 3 SC 5 about dividing text into paragraphs and level 3 SC 6 about dividing documents into hierarchical sections and subsections because they are all techniques for the same thing: splitting up complex content into more manageable pieces. 20:05:27 zakim, next item 20:05:27 agendum 4. "GL 2.1 (25 minutes)" taken up [from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/keyboardop20050607/results] 20:05:29 +Mike_Barta 20:05:34 clap clap (textual transcription from here) 20:05:54 results from survey: they are all techniques for the same thing: splitting up complex content into more manageable pieces. 20:05:57 oops. 20:06:07 results from survey for 2.1: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/keyboardop20050607/results 20:06:30 q+ 20:08:06 ack q 20:08:27 discussion about the split in comments, and the valuable feedback received. 20:08:34 ack w 20:08:42 + +1.650.224.aahh 20:08:53 plan to discuss this at the F2F to work new proposal. 20:09:18 q+ 20:09:36 zakim, +1.650.224.aahh is Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:09:36 +Loretta_Guarino_Reid; got it 20:10:35 q? 20:10:46 ack yv 20:12:54 scribe: yvette 20:12:59 zakim, next item 20:12:59 agendum 5. "GL 1.1 (25 minutes)" taken up [from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/textequiv20050607/results] 20:14:56 Straw polls: all proposals for lvl 1 SC 1 have people who don't want them 20:16:28 zakim, who's making noise? 20:16:41 Yvette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ben_and_Gregg (20%), John_Slatin (7%) 20:17:23 zakim, mute loretta 20:17:23 Loretta_Guarino_Reid should now be muted 20:18:49 q+ to say "not needed" 20:19:17 ack y 20:19:17 Yvette, you wanted to say "not needed" 20:20:22 resolution to adopt proposed wording for L1 SC 4 "Non-text content that is not functional, is not used to convey information, and does not create a specific sensory experience is implemented such that it can be ignored by assistive technology." 20:21:50 friendly amendment: ASCII art consists of graphic representations created by a spatial arrangement of text characters (typically from the 95 printable characters defined by ASCII). 20:26:03 discussion about ASCII art definition 20:27:40 ascii art - pictures created by a spatial arrangement of characters (typically from the 95 printable characters defined by ASCII). 20:28:07 'a picture' 20:28:33 resolution to accept as definition of ascii art: 'a picture created by a spatial arrangement of characters (typically from the 95 printable characters defined by ASCII).' 20:28:44 on to definition of 'content' 20:29:15 possibly plural 20:30:09 css defn - The content associated with an element in the source document. Some elements have no content, in which case they are called empty. The content of an element may include text, and it may include a number of sub-elements, in which case the element is called the parent of those sub-elements. 20:30:18 q+ to say "neither" 20:31:03 all w3c definitions of content - http://www.w3.org/2003/glossary/keyword/All/?keywords=content 20:31:55 ack y 20:31:55 Yvette, you wanted to say "neither" 20:31:59 ack j 20:32:00 ack j 20:32:13 q+ 20:32:32 q+ 20:32:34 discussion about the fact that WCAG uses 'content' in broader definition than some authors might expect 20:33:38 wikipedia defn - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content 20:34:15 Wendy looked at many definitions of content and fits with proposal 20:35:25 from wordnet: content, cognitive content, mental object -- (the sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned) 20:35:40 ack w 20:35:43 ack g 20:35:47 resolution to adopt as definition of content: Information in the delivery unit that is used by the user agent to generate perceivable units. This includes the code and markup that define the structure, presentation, and interaction, as well as text, images, and sounds that convey information to the end-user. 20:36:48 all w3c defns of text: http://www.w3.org/2003/glossary/keyword/All/?keywords=text 20:36:48 discussing definition of text 20:37:06 q+ to say "repertoire" 20:38:00 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars.html#repertoire 20:38:47 http://www.byteshift.de/web-design-Unicode-vi+Repertoire 20:39:16 ack y 20:39:16 Yvette, you wanted to say "repertoire" 20:39:23 Resolution to adopt as definition of text: "A sequence of characters. Characters are those included in the Unicode / ISO / IEC 106464 repertoire." 20:39:40 zakim, next item 20:39:40 agendum 6. "GL 1.4 (25 minutes)" taken up [from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/contrast20050608/results] 20:39:46 'Repertoire' chosen because it is part of the Unicode definition 20:41:42 q+ to say "also because it doesn't distract" 20:42:22 ack y 20:42:22 Yvette, you wanted to say "also because it doesn't distract" 20:44:06 q+ 20:44:07 q+ 20:45:05 David has joined #wai-wcag 20:45:55 rscano has left #wai-wcag 20:45:56 adk Andi 20:46:00 ack Andi 20:46:03 ack Yvette 20:46:46 q+ 20:47:13 +Michael_Cooper 20:47:22 q- 20:48:35 Michael has joined #wai-wcag 20:48:52 ben has joined #wai-wcag 20:49:00 q+ 20:49:16 ack mike 20:49:49 discussion about whether covered by UAAG, but UAAG only requires the UA to allow users to turn off all audio, not just background 20:50:52 ack d 20:51:20 q+ 20:51:22 if background audio interferes with screen reader, how will the user be able to find the mechanism? 20:51:44 Tim has left #wai-wcag 20:52:21 ack g 20:52:23 ack a 20:53:40 UAAG checkpoint 3.2 - http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG/uaag10.html#tech-configure-multimedia 20:54:24 q+ 20:54:55 Implementation details for UAAG 3.2 - http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/wai-eval/reports.php?report_id=4 (this item is not well supported in browsers) 20:55:03 safari partial imp, opera partial imp, ie (almost complete) - http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/wai-eval/evals-cp.php?eval_id=11&cp_id=15 20:55:09 q+ 20:55:18 q+ 20:55:22 it seems it's only a problem if it's continuous audio, not if it stops automatically 20:55:29 q+ 20:56:09 q+ 20:56:12 ack w 20:56:20 1- 20:56:22 q- 20:56:34 ack d 20:56:57 ack b 20:58:24 q+ 20:58:37 ack gregg 20:58:41 ack g 20:58:46 ack a 20:59:45 discussion about whether or not to keep the benefit in the SC text 21:00:06 pro keeping: explains why turning down volume is not an option 21:00:34 con: belongs in benefits/guide 21:00:59 Resolution to adopt as wording for L2 SC3: "A mechanism is available to turn off background audio that plays automatically" 21:01:14 Yvette, do you want me to scribe now? 21:01:36 scribe: Andi 21:01:45 I have to leave the irc call... bye all 21:01:51 rcastaldo has left #wai-wcag 21:01:56 action: David to research UA support of turning off background audio 21:02:24 s/Resolution to/resolution: 21:02:35 resolution: close 1320 21:04:16 judy has joined #wai-wcag 21:04:58 +Judy 21:06:04 q+ 21:06:31 q+ 21:07:03 ack g 21:07:10 q- 21:07:44 q+ to say "google spam" 21:07:44 q+ 21:07:48 Christophe has joined #wai-wcag 21:07:55 q- 21:08:18 dicussion about white text on white background. We have no SC that would make that illegal. But this is not accessible to anyone. 21:08:30 so it is not an accessibility issue 21:08:33 +Christophe_Strobbe 21:08:47 ack yv 21:08:47 Yvette, you wanted to say "google spam" 21:10:24 discussion about invisible text that is added to pages simply to improve search engine results. Sighted users don't see it but screen reader users do. This would need to be addressed under a different guideline however. 21:10:42 zakim, mute me 21:10:42 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:11:33