TTF weekly telecon

8 Jun 2005


See also: IRC log


Dave_MacDonald, Wendy, Matt, Ben, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, John_Slatin, Chris_Ridpath
Tim_Boland, Christophe Strobbe
Michael Cooper


Scribe class

Must reads:

Example of previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html

Review of SC with respect to Scripting and baseline

[TECHS] Review of SC with respect to Scripting and baseline issues.

discussion about major points from review. there are many SC that don't apply to scripting/widgets. questions about scripts that couldn't make accessible.

1.4, 4.1, and 3.2 seem to be most effected by scripting.

with 3.2, if scripting is part of baseline, there is more to do.

categories of things to think about for writing script techniques: 1. script accessible 2. providing fallbacks 3. advisory 4. things that are easier in scripts than not in scripts

one idea for base baseline (w/out scripts) use "unobtrusive javascript" (in a separate file. html works w/out it), although legacy javascript is not written this way.

can we recommend a javascript baseline that doesn't require fallbacks?

believe that is one of the options we'll explain, otherwise some web application won't work.

do we document javascript fallbacks at all? is that in the base baseline?

feeling from several thatwe do need to document fallbacks.

even in a higher technology baseline does there need to be at least info in a form that is compatible with the most basic baseline for the user to determine what is there?

e.g., "this app uses javascript, turn it on or go home"

question relates to guideline 1.1 always requiring a label and 4.2 requiring a fallback

how does that work with the model where javascript is independent of the html

discussion of differences betwen SC and techniques and how baseline fits into them.

SC are what to do, Techs are how to do it.

baseline is what technologies are used.

for a tech not in your baseline, replicate the functionality w/something in your baseline. w/scripts have noted that not all functions can be replicated. therefore, provide a label that we can't replicate. is that where we're going?

does that become a huge loophole? "i can't replicate...therefore, too bad for you"

a label could describes the overall effect of the javascript(s), not each one script.

discussion about intranet site and what would be required - even need label? yes, b/c if have an issue can contact IT dept.

2 baselines: accessible scripting/enhanced access (2 approaches in one baseline), fallback/no script

<scribe> ACTION: wendy, matt and becky discuss what to prep for F2F wrt scripting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]

Continue review of 1.3

{TECHS] Techniques Issues for Guideline 1.3

discussing - 6. Margins

might map to proposed new SC about making text legible

in absense of, perhaps advisory,, 3.1?

instead of tech about &nbsp; can use spacing to create readability and then say don't use &nbsp;

resolution: for now map to advisory for 3.1, update the tech to include info about why not a good idea (b/c the space will grow as font grows). may map to new SC about readable text.

discussing - 7. Creating layout, positioning, layering, and alignment

resolution: delete reference to issue 308 in tech 5.2
... delete technique 5.2 - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#layout because it is covered by 9.4 Spacing letters and words and techs about absolute positioning.

discussing - 8. Positioning (float, position)


isn't this covered by - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#absolute-positioning?

do we need to discuss each property (or group of properties) or the effect of combining them?

talk about positioning that covers several css properties, perhaps compare with html tables.

resolution: delete 5.3 Positioning (float, position) and do more work on 13.1 and other techniques that talk about positioning, using css w/scripting, etc.

discussing - 9. Providing additional structural information

6.2 Providing additional structural information - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#generated-content-clues

Issue 253: should we add a cautionary note about the potential misuses of CSS generated text?

yes - concern about generated content

resolution: 6.2 optional. map it to 3.1. if a SC is created about highlighting structure, map it to that. add example for exposing longdesc attribute.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: wendy, matt and becky discuss what to prep for F2F wrt scripting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/06/08 17:15:07 $