IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-05-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:50:46 [RRSAgent]

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18:50:46 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-irc

18:52:55 [wendy]

Regrets: Sebastiano Nutarelli, Makoto Ueki, WATANABE Takayuki

19:40:17 [wendy]

zakim, this will be wcag

19:40:17 [Zakim]

ok, wendy; I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes

19:43:58 [wendy]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0563.html

19:44:05 [wendy]

agenda+ Agenda review and face to face announcements (5 minutes)

19:44:12 [wendy]

agenda+ Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes)

19:44:26 [wendy]

agenda+ Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes)

19:44:40 [wendy]

agenda+ Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)

19:44:50 [wendy]

agenda+ Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)

19:44:57 [wendy]

agenda+ Guideline 3.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)

19:45:06 [wendy]

agenda+ Guideline 4.1 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)

19:51:44 [Michael]

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19:54:50 [jslatin]

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19:57:40 [Yvette]

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19:57:44 [ben]

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19:57:46 [Christophe]

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19:57:48 [Yvette]

Hi all

19:58:42 [jslatin]

i didn't have time to make a chart of responses to straw poll. can someone help us track how many yesses, nos, etc.?

19:58:50 [Yvette]

sure

19:58:59 [jslatin]

want to identify controversial items for discussion first

19:59:17 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started

19:59:24 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

19:59:36 [Yvette]

some were even unanimous :-)

19:59:42 [Zakim]

+John_Slatin

19:59:43 [Christophe]

I don't have access to the results of the questionnaires

20:00:02 [Becky_Gibson]

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20:00:02 [jslatin]

whoops, i forgot-- i think that's jsut me and wendy and gregg, not sure

20:00:03 [Zakim]

+Becky_Gibson

20:00:29 [wendy]

everyone should have access to the questionnaires, lemme see if one of the settings i messed up.

20:00:30 [Yvette]

I do have access

20:00:45 [rcastaldo]

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20:00:51 [Zakim]

+Wendy

20:00:53 [rcastaldo]

Hi all :)

20:00:57 [Yvette]

Hmm, I got kicked off the phone

20:01:05 [jslatin]

hi roberto!

20:01:07 [wendy]

christophe - which one were you trying to get?

20:01:13 [rcastaldo]

Hi :)

20:01:15 [Zakim]

+Yvette_Hoitink

20:01:22 [wendy]

zakim, who's on the phone?

20:01:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink

20:01:34 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

20:01:43 [Zakim]

+Loretta_Guarino_Reid

20:02:08 [Zakim]

+Dave_MacDonald

20:02:14 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.558.aaaa - is perhaps Bengt_Farre

20:02:38 [Zakim]

+Alex_Li

20:02:48 [Zakim]

+Andi_Snow_Weaver

20:03:02 [Andi]

Andi has joined #wai-wcag

20:03:11 [Zakim]

+Matt

20:03:24 [mcmay]

mcmay has joined #wai-wcag

20:03:31 [Zakim]

+JasonWhite

20:03:49 [Zakim]

+??P21

20:03:58 [ben]

zakim, ??P21 is Gregg_and_Ben

20:03:58 [Zakim]

+Gregg_and_Ben; got it

20:04:36 [David]

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20:04:39 [David]

test

20:05:07 [Zakim]

+Mike_Barta

20:05:20 [ben]

zakim, who's on the phone?

20:05:20 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li,

20:05:23 [Zakim]

... Andi_Snow_Weaver, Matt, JasonWhite, Gregg_and_Ben, Mike_Barta

20:05:41 [rcastaldo]

I'm on the phone too :)

20:06:02 [gregg]

gregg has joined #wai-wcag

20:06:36 [wendy]

zakim, take up item 1

20:06:36 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Agenda review and face to face announcements (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]

20:07:55 [Zakim]

-Bengt_Farre

20:08:07 [wendy]

registration for F2F open until 8 June.

20:08:10 [wendy]

zakim, close this item

20:08:10 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

20:08:12 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

20:08:13 [Zakim]

2. Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes) [from wendy]

20:08:17 [Yvette]

zakim, mute me

20:08:17 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted

20:08:19 [wendy]

zakim, next item

20:08:19 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]

20:08:23 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.558.aabb - is perhaps Bengt_Farre

20:08:33 [wendy]

scribe: wendy

20:08:38 [wendy]

mc: gives TTF update

20:08:47 [rcastaldo]

I'm connected again, and I'm not Bengt_Farre

20:09:05 [wendy]

baseline mockups soon. prep for discussion at F2F. lots of work on 2.4.

20:09:45 [wendy]

minutes from yesterday: http://www.w3.org/2005/05/25-wai-wcag-minutes.html

20:09:58 [wendy]

(still need to be cleaned up)

20:10:49 [wendy]

js: focus on next public WDs.

20:11:16 [wendy]

zakim, close this item

20:11:16 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

20:11:17 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

20:11:19 [Zakim]

3. Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]

20:11:19 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

20:11:20 [wendy]

zakim, next item

20:11:21 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]

20:12:11 [ben]

Last Week's 3.1 Results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0516/results

20:12:33 [ben]

This week's results (includes updated proposals for 3 criterion): http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0526/results

20:14:43 [wendy]

zakim, who's making noise?

20:14:55 [Zakim]

wendy, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Slatin (73%), Christophe_Strobbe (4%), Loretta_Guarino_Reid (26%), Mike_Barta (4%)

20:15:26 [wendy]

zakim, who's muted?

20:15:26 [Zakim]

I see Yvette_Hoitink, Bengt_Farre muted

20:15:43 [rcastaldo]

I'm muted too

20:17:10 [wendy]

last week's 3.1 discussion: http://www.w3.org/2005/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html#item05

20:19:06 [wendy]

discussing: Proposed wording Level 1 SC3: A measure of the education level required to read the content is available.

20:19:42 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland

20:20:10 [Yvette]

q+

20:20:21 [Yvette]

zakim, unmute me

20:20:21 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted

20:20:24 [Tim]

Tim has joined #wai-wcag

20:20:36 [Yvette]

q-

20:21:03 [wendy]

ack alex

20:22:12 [wendy]

q+

20:22:43 [wendy]

ack john

20:23:59 [Yvette]

q+

20:25:49 [wendy]

ack wendy

20:26:15 [gregg]

q+

20:26:24 [wendy]

ack yvette

20:28:03 [wendy]

i have reservations, think it's important, but can live with it.

20:28:26 [gregg]

ack g

20:28:35 [wendy]

resolution: delete Level 1 SC3: A measure of the education level required to read the content is available.

20:28:49 [wendy]

s/delete/not accept the proposal

20:29:53 [wendy]

q+ to say, "should only be reopened with new evidence or information"

20:29:57 [wendy]

q-

20:32:09 [wendy]

discussing: Proposed text: A mechanism is available to identify the primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit.

20:33:00 [Yvette]

q+ to say "Becky and I had similar alternative proposal"

20:34:35 [wendy]

We need a definition of what "mechanism is available" means.

20:35:15 [Tim]

how to objectively test "availability of mechanism"?

20:35:26 [wendy]

action: john to take a pass at definition of what "mechanism is available" means

20:35:39 [wendy]

ack yvette

20:35:39 [Zakim]

Yvette, you wanted to say "Becky and I had similar alternative proposal"

20:35:57 [wendy]

The primary natural language or languages of a delivery unit can be programmatically determined.

20:37:27 [wendy]

6 issues related to programmatically determined: http://tinyurl.com/8ralm

20:37:52 [wendy]

especially: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1309

20:39:45 [wendy]

ack alex

20:40:20 [wendy]

ack john

20:42:30 [wendy]

multiple languages per document, comma-separated list: "Technique 9: Provide a comma-separated list of languages" http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20040728.121940236

20:45:11 [Christophe]

that refers to HTTP headers, not to HTML's lang attribute

20:46:04 [Christophe]

HTML spec always says "a language": e.g http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/sgml/dtd.html#LanguageCode

20:48:47 [Becky]

q+

20:48:56 [wendy]

ack becky

20:49:02 [ben]

q+ to say, "we're using programmatically determined in ~ 6 other criterion"

20:49:10 [David]

q+

20:51:03 [wendy]

ack ben

20:51:04 [Zakim]

ben, you wanted to say, "we're using programmatically determined in ~ 6 other criterion"

20:51:06 [wendy]

oops.

20:51:15 [wendy]

zakim, mute Bengt

20:51:15 [Zakim]

Bengt_Farre should now be muted

20:51:25 [wendy]

ack dav

20:51:32 [gregg]

q+

20:51:37 [Tim]

I prefer "programmatically determined" from testing standpoint

20:52:21 [gregg]

ack g

20:54:06 [gregg]

The primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit can be programmatically determined.

20:54:14 [wendy]

resolution: use "programmatically determined" here. will consider other uses of "mechanism is available" at a later time.

20:54:23 [wendy]

resolution: The primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit can be programmatically determined.

20:55:05 [wendy]

Discussing: Proposed wording Level 3 SC1: A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms and jargon.

20:55:16 [wendy]

Current text: Where a word has multiple meanings and the intended meaning is not the first in the associated dictionary(s), then additional markup or another mechanism is provided for determining the correct meaning.

20:57:50 [Yvette]

zakim, mute me

20:57:50 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted

20:58:31 [gregg]

q+

20:58:59 [wendy]

ack g

20:59:01 [Becky]

q+

21:01:02 [rcastaldo]

I've got to leave the call. Bye everybody, hear you next week

21:01:11 [Zakim]

-Bengt_Farre

21:01:18 [rcastaldo]

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21:01:43 [Michael]

Michael has joined #wai-wcag

21:01:52 [wendy]

Note that Bengt was actually Roberto Castaldo

21:02:14 [wendy]

ack b

21:02:53 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

21:03:17 [wendy]

ack j

21:04:32 [wendy]

q+ to ask "time check?"

21:06:38 [wendy]

q-

21:08:03 [wendy]

becky gives example about teen site and slang used to appeal to.

21:08:22 [wendy]

john says "not assuming authors will design a site to be used by the entire world" - is an implicit assumption

21:08:49 [wendy]

include this idea/example and "restricted way" - in guide doc

21:11:01 [wendy]

resolution: adopt proposed wording for Level 3 SC1 - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms and jargon. Issue: need to define tests for "unusual or restricted way"

21:15:17 [wendy]

action: john send updated guideline 3.1 with decisions from today

21:15:21 [wendy]

zakim, close this item

21:15:21 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

21:15:22 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

21:15:23 [Zakim]

4. Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]

21:15:25 [wendy]

zakim, next item

21:15:25 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]

21:15:47 [wendy]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/flicker2005-05-25/results

21:16:28 [wendy]

issue 1323 - 11 close this issue, 1 keep it open

21:16:41 [wendy]

q+ to say "focus on controversial"

21:17:04 [wendy]

e.g., - Issue 1167 - Should we add a level 3 SC about notification? 3 - 9

21:17:21 [wendy]

resolution: close issue 1323 with gv's comment

21:18:49 [wendy]

q-

21:19:35 [wendy]

resolution: close issue 1386

21:21:16 [Yvette]

zakim, unmute me

21:21:16 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted

21:24:26 [wendy]

resolution: do not add a new level 3 SC about notification and close issue 1167.

21:25:19 [wendy]

resolution: adopt Proposed wording Guideline 2.3 Allow users to avoid content that could cause seizures due to photosensitivity.

21:26:09 [wendy]

zakim, close this item

21:26:09 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

21:26:10 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

21:26:11 [Zakim]

5. Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]

21:26:22 [wendy]

zakim, next item

21:26:22 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]

21:26:28 [ben]

2.2 survey results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/time-limits0525/results

21:29:04 [wendy]

q+ to propose that Christophe rework proposal based on feedback

21:32:33 [gregg]

ack w

21:32:33 [Zakim]

wendy, you wanted to propose that Christophe rework proposal based on feedback

21:33:35 [wendy]

resolution/action: christophe rework proposal for Level 1 SC 1 based on feedback

21:34:11 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

21:34:22 [Tim]

Have to leave call now..best wishes

21:34:25 [Tim]

Tim has left #wai-wcag

21:34:59 [wendy]

Discussing: Proposed wording Level 2 SC 1: Content does not blink, or a method is available to stop any blinking of content in the delivery unit, or a method is available to disallow blinking entirely in the content of the delivery unit.

21:35:23 [wendy]

responses: proposed 5, current 4. lots of comments.

21:36:16 [wendy]

resolution/action: christophe reword proposal for Level 2 SC 1 based on feedback.

21:36:48 [wendy]

resolution: adopt Proposed wording for Level 2 SC 2: Moving or time-based content can be paused by the user.

21:38:08 [Yvette]

zakim, unmute me

21:38:08 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette

21:39:29 [Andi]

q+

21:40:44 [wendy]

ack q

21:44:03 [gregg]

ack a

21:44:05 [gregg]

ack j

21:46:11 [Zakim]

-Matt

21:49:09 [wendy]

resolution: adopt Proposed wording for Level 3 SC 1: Except for real-time events, timing is not an essential part of the event or activity presented by the content. (clarify issues with differences between level 1 and this in the guide doc. e.g., a test that conforms to level 3 does not have a timeout)

21:51:30 [wendy]

discussing: Proposed wording Level 3 SC 2: Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, are turned off by default.

21:51:49 [wendy]

q+

21:53:14 [wendy]

ack w

21:55:35 [wendy]

counter-proposal: Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, can be postponed or suppressed by the user.

21:55:40 [Zakim]

+Matt

21:56:32 [wendy]

resolution: adopt modification of current wording for Level 3 SC 2 - Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, can be postponed or suppressed by the user.

21:56:37 [jslatin]

just make it "notice about the availability" and we're all set

21:56:57 [wendy]

discussing: Proposal for new benefit: People with low computer literacy, particularly the elderly, do not get confused or are not led to think that they have made a mistake.

21:57:27 [Yvette]

q+

21:57:37 [Yvette]

q-

21:58:03 [wendy]

resolution: since informative, discuss proposed new benefit (re: low computer literacy) on the list.

21:58:25 [wendy]

Issue 880 - Should blinking and movement be covered? - yes.

21:58:36 [wendy]

however, need a proposal

21:58:49 [wendy]

discussing -Issue 1525 - Reject the issue about server timeouts?

21:59:16 [wendy]

6 said to reject the issue, 2 said not to reject

21:59:48 [wendy]

q+ to ask if that is accessibility or usability?

21:59:49 [ben]

q+ to ask, "how is this case not already covered by level 1 SC?"

22:01:04 [wendy]

several comments that the author does not control the server

22:01:51 [Andi]

q+

22:02:34 [wendy]

ack wendy

22:02:34 [Zakim]

wendy, you wanted to ask if that is accessibility or usability?

22:03:50 [Zakim]

-JasonWhite

22:05:24 [Andi]

q-

22:05:29 [wendy]

ack b

22:05:29 [Zakim]

ben, you wanted to ask, "how is this case not already covered by level 1 SC?"

22:07:12 [wendy]

http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=800

22:07:16 [wendy]

ack a

22:07:36 [wendy]

http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1525

22:08:28 [wendy]

unresolved question: should server time-outs be at a lower level (2 or 3)?

22:09:22 [wendy]

action: christophe look at comments on issue 1525 and write proposal to address.

22:09:30 [wendy]

zakim, close this item

22:09:30 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

22:09:31 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

22:09:32 [Zakim]

6. Guideline 3.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]

22:09:37 [wendy]

zakim, save agenda

22:09:43 [Zakim]

ok, wendy, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-agenda.rdf

22:09:46 [wendy]

Chair: Gregg

22:10:05 [wendy]

RRSagent, generate minutes

22:10:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy

22:10:14 [Zakim]

-Mike_Barta

22:10:16 [Zakim]

-Loretta_Guarino_Reid

22:10:17 [Zakim]

-Matt

22:10:17 [Zakim]

-Andi_Snow_Weaver