13:56:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
13:56:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc
13:56:29 <Ralph> Meeting: SWBPD RDF-in-XHTML TF
13:56:53 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005May/0000.html
13:57:20 <benadida> benadida has joined #swbp
13:57:31 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0020.html previous meeting 2005-04-12
13:57:36 <Ralph> Chair: Ben
13:58:00 <Ralph> Regrets: MarkB
13:58:09 <Ralph> (partial regrets from Jeremy)
13:59:37 <Steven> Steven has joined #swbp
13:59:50 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started
13:59:57 <Zakim> +??P2
13:59:59 <Steven> this looks like the right place :-)
14:00:05 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:00:05 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:00:07 <Zakim> -??P2
14:00:08 <Zakim> +??P2
14:00:25 <Zakim> +Steven
14:00:35 <Steven> zakim, drop steven
14:00:35 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
14:00:36 <Zakim> -Steven
14:00:41 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:00:41 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:00:42 <Zakim> +Steven
14:01:19 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:01:31 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
14:02:02 <Ralph> zakim, ??p2 is probably JJC
14:02:02 <Zakim> +JJC?; got it
14:03:26 <Ralph> Scribe: Ralph
14:04:13 <Ralph> BenA: Mark writes that he may have found a bug in his bnode proposal
14:04:37 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005May/0002.html Mark's mail re: bug
14:06:07 <Ralph> Topic: bnode in RDF/A
14:07:01 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0021.html Mark's bnode proposal
14:07:39 <Ralph> Ben: Mark's proposal is to use ID and about attributes to denote bnodes vs. named nodes
14:07:58 <Ralph> Steven: I thought I had found some internal inconsistencies
14:08:54 <Ralph> ... I hoped to send mail and see if Mark would clarify my understanding
14:09:47 <benadida> Ralph: haven't yet investigated this fully
14:10:13 <benadida> ... like where Mark was headed when we talked about it
14:10:35 <Ralph> JJC: I haven't analysed Mark's proposal either
14:10:49 <Ralph> ACTION: JJC & Ralph analyse Mark's bnode proposal
14:11:36 <Ralph> JJC, Steven: regrets for next week (10 May)
14:12:16 <Ralph> JJC: target to do bnode proposal review by 24 May
14:12:23 <Ralph> Steven: regrets for 24 May
14:12:46 <Ralph> JJC: regrets for 31 May
14:14:56 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0024.html Steven's attempt to express Mark's bnode proposal differently in order to clarify
14:15:07 <Ralph> Topic: XHTML2 Last Call status
14:15:15 <Ralph> Steven: HTML WG is close to Last Call
14:15:34 <Ralph> ... we are awaiting a schema; hope to get the schema this week
14:15:48 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to Provide RDF/XML examples and english description to Steven and Mark (use cases)
14:15:50 <Ralph> -- continues
14:16:05 <Ralph> Steven: I am speaking at the News Standards conference on 24 May
14:16:18 <Ralph> ... talking about metadata in XHTML2
14:16:38 <Ralph> ... may show how to do RSS in RDF/A
14:17:27 <Ralph> ... will put slides in http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/
14:17:43 <Ralph> BenA: Creative Commons is very excited about RDF/A -- want it to be a standard soon
14:18:07 <Ralph> Topic: GRDDL editor
14:19:28 <Ralph> Ralph: my primary concern is insufficient evidence of community support to work on GRDDL
14:19:42 <Ralph> ... people are apparently not willing to give it very high priority
14:19:55 <Ralph> Jeremy: there is a lot of enthusiasm for RDF/A in HP
14:20:27 <Ralph> ... HP doesn't believe it will be possible to scrape the current Web for metadata in a reliable way
14:20:43 <Ralph> ... that seems to be the use case for GRDDL
14:20:54 <benadida> Ralph: I'm not sure that it's akin to scraping
14:21:22 <benadida> ... I have a bias against scraping, because no guarantee of author's intent
14:21:36 <benadida> ... the document author may or may not have intended the scraped metadata
14:21:52 <benadida> ... GRDDL addresses this problem by including some additional markup
14:22:02 <benadida> ... that says that the author *did* mean that metadata
14:22:38 <benadida> ... what GRDDL really promises is to allow those who design non-RDF XML schemas
14:23:03 <benadida> ... to extract semantics from their other schemas [slightly paraphrased by Ben]
14:23:50 <benadida> ... CC has expressed interest in GRDDL for pre-XHTML2, where scraping is not a good idea
14:24:33 <Ralph> Ben: Creative Commons did hope for an ability to use non-standard or other XML schemas to embed semantics
14:24:55 <Ralph> ... e.g. other document types that want to use CC licenses but that have not bought into RDF yet
14:26:12 <Ralph> ... CC apparently has the largest interest w/in the current WG to work on GRDDL
14:26:35 <Ralph> ... should I advise CC of the need for additional resources?
14:28:36 <benadida> Ralph: Dom and Dan will probably do most of the work
14:28:56 <benadida> ... but they need someone from the WG to attend the meetings
14:29:26 <benadida> ... it probably needs to be someone who isn't Creative Commons, expressing other use cases and interests
14:30:03 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to go back to CC and discuss the GRDDL situation
14:32:05 <Ralph> ACTION: Tom Baker and Gavin to get feedback about use of RDF in XHTML in their respective communities
14:32:23 <Ralph> -- continues
14:32:33 <Ralph> (Gavin gave his verbally, we asked for email)
14:33:04 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to talk to Jeremy about HP feedback
14:33:17 <Ralph> -- done
14:34:01 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
14:34:06 <Ralph> ACTION: DanBri RDF schema for new XHTML2 namespace elements
14:34:14 <Ralph> -- continues
14:35:22 <Ralph> ACTION: Steven to send email about latest draft of RDF/A included in XHTML 2
14:35:53 <Ralph> Steven: I thought I'd done this
14:36:40 <Ralph> ... the latest RDF/A draft is public
14:36:47 <Ralph> ... there is only one RDF/A draft
14:36:57 <Ralph> ... the latest XHTML2 editor's draft is not public
14:37:12 <Ralph> Ben: is RDF/A part of the XHTML2 editor's draft or only in spirit?
14:37:16 <Ralph> Steven: only in spirit
14:39:38 <Ralph> ... my intention is that the XHTML2 draft is more precise than the October RDF/A draft
14:40:08 <benadida> Ralph: so the current editor draft has the language you expect the last call to have
14:40:18 <benadida> Steven: unless you have comments, that's the text that will go into last call
14:40:25 <Ralph> Steven: ... the current XHTML2 editor's draft is Member-visible and has the expected text
14:41:06 <Ralph> steven's action DONE
14:41:15 <Ralph> ACTION: MarkB to email TF with his bnode proposal -- that (1) any node with @id is an anonymous node; (2) that an @href with a fragment refers to these nodes (like @rdf:nodeID)
14:41:17 <Ralph> -- done
14:41:35 <Ralph> Topic: scheduling
14:42:58 <Steven> "22.2. Meta and RDF 
14:42:58 <Steven>  
14:42:58 <Steven> The metadata attributes can be used to generate RDF statements. The attributes rel, rev and property represent predicates. The predicate is obtained by concatenating the namespace URI and the local part of the Qname of the attribute value. For attribute rel, the subject is the about property, and the object is the value of the href attribute; for attribute rev, the subject and object roles are reversed. For attribute property, the subject is the about property, a
14:43:59 <Ralph> next meeting: 17 May
14:45:03 <Ralph> JJC: regrets for 17 May
14:45:58 <Zakim> -JJC?
14:46:07 <Zakim> -Steven
14:46:09 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:46:10 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
14:46:11 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended
14:46:12 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, Ralph, Ben_Adida, JJC?
14:47:18 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:47:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-minutes.html Ralph
14:47:30 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
14:47:33 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JJC & Ralph analyse Mark's bnode proposal [1]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-10-49
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to Provide RDF/XML examples and english description to Steven and Mark (use cases) [2]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-15-48
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to go back to CC and discuss the GRDDL situation [3]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-30-03
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tom Baker and Gavin to get feedback about use of RDF in XHTML in their respective communities [4]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-32-05
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to talk to Jeremy about HP feedback [5]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-33-04
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanBri RDF schema for new XHTML2 namespace elements [6]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-34-06
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send email about latest draft of RDF/A included in XHTML 2 [7]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-35-22
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB to email TF with his bnode proposal -- that (1) any node with @id is an anonymous node; (2) that an @href with a fragment refers to these nodes (like @rdf:nodeID) [8]
14:47:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-41-15