IRC log of swbp on 2005-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:18 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swbp

13:56:18 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc

13:56:29 [Ralph]

Meeting: SWBPD RDF-in-XHTML TF

13:56:53 [Ralph]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005May/0000.html

13:57:20 [benadida]

benadida has joined #swbp

13:57:31 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0020.html previous meeting 2005-04-12

13:57:36 [Ralph]

Chair: Ben

13:58:00 [Ralph]

Regrets: MarkB

13:58:09 [Ralph]

(partial regrets from Jeremy)

13:59:37 [Steven]

Steven has joined #swbp

13:59:50 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started

13:59:57 [Zakim]

+??P2

13:59:59 [Steven]

this looks like the right place :-)

14:00:05 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:00:05 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:00:07 [Zakim]

-??P2

14:00:08 [Zakim]

+??P2

14:00:25 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:00:35 [Steven]

zakim, drop steven

14:00:35 [Zakim]

Steven is being disconnected

14:00:36 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:00:41 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:00:41 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:00:42 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:01:19 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:01:31 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

14:02:02 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p2 is probably JJC

14:02:02 [Zakim]

+JJC?; got it

14:03:26 [Ralph]

Scribe: Ralph

14:04:13 [Ralph]

BenA: Mark writes that he may have found a bug in his bnode proposal

14:04:37 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005May/0002.html Mark's mail re: bug

14:06:07 [Ralph]

Topic: bnode in RDF/A

14:07:01 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0021.html Mark's bnode proposal

14:07:39 [Ralph]

Ben: Mark's proposal is to use ID and about attributes to denote bnodes vs. named nodes

14:07:58 [Ralph]

Steven: I thought I had found some internal inconsistencies

14:08:54 [Ralph]

... I hoped to send mail and see if Mark would clarify my understanding

14:09:47 [benadida]

Ralph: haven't yet investigated this fully

14:10:13 [benadida]

... like where Mark was headed when we talked about it

14:10:35 [Ralph]

JJC: I haven't analysed Mark's proposal either

14:10:49 [Ralph]

ACTION: JJC & Ralph analyse Mark's bnode proposal

14:11:36 [Ralph]

JJC, Steven: regrets for next week (10 May)

14:12:16 [Ralph]

JJC: target to do bnode proposal review by 24 May

14:12:23 [Ralph]

Steven: regrets for 24 May

14:12:46 [Ralph]

JJC: regrets for 31 May

14:14:56 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0024.html Steven's attempt to express Mark's bnode proposal differently in order to clarify

14:15:07 [Ralph]

Topic: XHTML2 Last Call status

14:15:15 [Ralph]

Steven: HTML WG is close to Last Call

14:15:34 [Ralph]

... we are awaiting a schema; hope to get the schema this week

14:15:48 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ben to Provide RDF/XML examples and english description to Steven and Mark (use cases)

14:15:50 [Ralph]

-- continues

14:16:05 [Ralph]

Steven: I am speaking at the News Standards conference on 24 May

14:16:18 [Ralph]

... talking about metadata in XHTML2

14:16:38 [Ralph]

... may show how to do RSS in RDF/A

14:17:27 [Ralph]

... will put slides in http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/

14:17:43 [Ralph]

BenA: Creative Commons is very excited about RDF/A -- want it to be a standard soon

14:18:07 [Ralph]

Topic: GRDDL editor

14:19:28 [Ralph]

Ralph: my primary concern is insufficient evidence of community support to work on GRDDL

14:19:42 [Ralph]

... people are apparently not willing to give it very high priority

14:19:55 [Ralph]

Jeremy: there is a lot of enthusiasm for RDF/A in HP

14:20:27 [Ralph]

... HP doesn't believe it will be possible to scrape the current Web for metadata in a reliable way

14:20:43 [Ralph]

... that seems to be the use case for GRDDL

14:20:54 [benadida]

Ralph: I'm not sure that it's akin to scraping

14:21:22 [benadida]

... I have a bias against scraping, because no guarantee of author's intent

14:21:36 [benadida]

... the document author may or may not have intended the scraped metadata

14:21:52 [benadida]

... GRDDL addresses this problem by including some additional markup

14:22:02 [benadida]

... that says that the author *did* mean that metadata

14:22:38 [benadida]

... what GRDDL really promises is to allow those who design non-RDF XML schemas

14:23:03 [benadida]

... to extract semantics from their other schemas [slightly paraphrased by Ben]

14:23:50 [benadida]

... CC has expressed interest in GRDDL for pre-XHTML2, where scraping is not a good idea

14:24:33 [Ralph]

Ben: Creative Commons did hope for an ability to use non-standard or other XML schemas to embed semantics

14:24:55 [Ralph]

... e.g. other document types that want to use CC licenses but that have not bought into RDF yet

14:26:12 [Ralph]

... CC apparently has the largest interest w/in the current WG to work on GRDDL

14:26:35 [Ralph]

... should I advise CC of the need for additional resources?

14:28:36 [benadida]

Ralph: Dom and Dan will probably do most of the work

14:28:56 [benadida]

... but they need someone from the WG to attend the meetings

14:29:26 [benadida]

... it probably needs to be someone who isn't Creative Commons, expressing other use cases and interests

14:30:03 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to go back to CC and discuss the GRDDL situation

14:32:05 [Ralph]

ACTION: Tom Baker and Gavin to get feedback about use of RDF in XHTML in their respective communities

14:32:23 [Ralph]

-- continues

14:32:33 [Ralph]

(Gavin gave his verbally, we asked for email)

14:33:04 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ben to talk to Jeremy about HP feedback

14:33:17 [Ralph]

-- done

14:34:01 [Ralph]

Topic: Action Review

14:34:06 [Ralph]

ACTION: DanBri RDF schema for new XHTML2 namespace elements

14:34:14 [Ralph]

-- continues

14:35:22 [Ralph]

ACTION: Steven to send email about latest draft of RDF/A included in XHTML 2

14:35:53 [Ralph]

Steven: I thought I'd done this

14:36:40 [Ralph]

... the latest RDF/A draft is public

14:36:47 [Ralph]

... there is only one RDF/A draft

14:36:57 [Ralph]

... the latest XHTML2 editor's draft is not public

14:37:12 [Ralph]

Ben: is RDF/A part of the XHTML2 editor's draft or only in spirit?

14:37:16 [Ralph]

Steven: only in spirit

14:39:38 [Ralph]

... my intention is that the XHTML2 draft is more precise than the October RDF/A draft

14:40:08 [benadida]

Ralph: so the current editor draft has the language you expect the last call to have

14:40:18 [benadida]

Steven: unless you have comments, that's the text that will go into last call

14:40:25 [Ralph]

Steven: ... the current XHTML2 editor's draft is Member-visible and has the expected text

14:41:06 [Ralph]

steven's action DONE

14:41:15 [Ralph]

ACTION: MarkB to email TF with his bnode proposal -- that (1) any node with @id is an anonymous node; (2) that an @href with a fragment refers to these nodes (like @rdf:nodeID)

14:41:17 [Ralph]

-- done

14:41:35 [Ralph]

Topic: scheduling

14:42:58 [Steven]

"22.2. Meta and RDF

14:42:58 [Steven]

14:42:58 [Steven]

The metadata attributes can be used to generate RDF statements. The attributes rel, rev and property represent predicates. The predicate is obtained by concatenating the namespace URI and the local part of the Qname of the attribute value. For attribute rel, the subject is the about property, and the object is the value of the href attribute; for attribute rev, the subject and object roles are reversed. For attribute property, the subject is the about property, a

14:43:59 [Ralph]

next meeting: 17 May

14:45:03 [Ralph]

JJC: regrets for 17 May

14:45:58 [Zakim]

-JJC?

14:46:07 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:46:09 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:46:10 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:46:11 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended

14:46:12 [Zakim]

Attendees were Steven, Ralph, Ben_Adida, JJC?

14:47:18 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

14:47:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-minutes.html Ralph

14:47:30 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please make logs world-visible

14:47:33 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

I see 8 open action items:

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JJC & Ralph analyse Mark's bnode proposal [1]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-10-49

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to Provide RDF/XML examples and english description to Steven and Mark (use cases) [2]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-15-48

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to go back to CC and discuss the GRDDL situation [3]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-30-03

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Tom Baker and Gavin to get feedback about use of RDF in XHTML in their respective communities [4]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-32-05

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to talk to Jeremy about HP feedback [5]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-33-04

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanBri RDF schema for new XHTML2 namespace elements [6]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-34-06

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven to send email about latest draft of RDF/A included in XHTML 2 [7]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-35-22

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: MarkB to email TF with his bnode proposal -- that (1) any node with @id is an anonymous node; (2) that an @href with a fragment refers to these nodes (like @rdf:nodeID) [8]

14:47:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-swbp-irc#T14-41-15