14:29:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:29:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/03-dawg-irc
14:29:35 <Yoshio> hello, 
14:29:39 <DaveB> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:29:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P27, Yoshio
14:29:42 <Zakim> +Jeen_Broekstra
14:29:45 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P27 is DaveB
14:29:45 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
14:29:48 <Zakim> +DanC
14:29:49 <howardk> howardk has joined #dawg
14:29:50 <Zakim> +??P30
14:29:52 <Yoshio> zakim, mut me
14:29:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mut me', Yoshio
14:29:55 <kendall> (and i believe anyone can rename that abstract type in the GET URI serialization in their <service> section of a WSDL...)
14:29:55 <AndyS> zakim, ??P30 is AndyS
14:29:55 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:30:11 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:30:13 <DanC> Meeting: RDF Data Access weekly
14:30:15 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:30:15 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:30:46 <DanC> Topic: Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:30:50 <DanC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0185.html
14:30:58 <AndyS> Pref we suggest one comon one so simple clients don't have to lool in service description at all
14:31:01 <Zakim> +??P33
14:31:19 <Zakim> +Kevin
14:31:30 <KevinW> KevinW has joined #DAWG
14:31:33 <AndyS> e.g. I write a support library and ship it to many people for use on many services
14:31:42 <kendall> Andy: I'm fine w/ that. But "default-graph-uri" is the last thing we talked about on mail/phone-call... DanC's suggestion to the contrary notwithstanding IMO
14:31:49 <Zakim> +HowardK
14:32:17 <AndyS> Don't care about the name much - as long as it is stable!
14:32:22 <kendall> sure
14:32:30 <kendall> yes, to scribing
14:32:31 <jannesaa> jannesaa has joined #dawg
14:32:32 <AndyS> DanC was jusy noting what people currently do, I think
14:32:37 <DanC> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, Yoshio (muted), Jeen_Broekstra, DanC, AndyS, Kendall_Clark (muted), ??P33, Kevin, HowardK
14:32:56 <DanC> Zakim, ??P33 is JanneS
14:32:56 <Zakim> +JanneS; got it
14:33:07 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-minutes
14:33:23 <DanC> missing one of howard's actions
14:33:40 <DanC> Janne was there
14:34:01 <kendall> last week's minutes APPROVED, with Howard's action addition and with Janne attending (and with Jeen's misplaced "crap")...?
14:34:04 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:34:48 <Zakim> +EricP
14:35:06 <DanC> next meeting 17 May?
14:35:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark (muted)
14:35:23 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS
14:35:27 <kendall> 10 May -- no meeting because of WWW conflict
14:35:35 <kendall> 17 May -- meeting @ regular time, JanneS scribing
14:35:35 <Zakim> +??P37
14:35:38 <jannes> jannes has joined #dawg
14:35:52 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
14:35:53 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:36:45 <kendall> (adding rules workshop precis to agenda)
14:36:47 <DanC> agenda + rules workshop notes
14:36:58 <DanC> Topic: issue fromUnionQuery
14:37:41 <kendall> ericp: current design is a subset of the implemented algae expressivity
14:38:34 <kendall> algae separates databases from provenance
14:39:21 <kendall> eric's action continued
14:39:37 <DanC> . ACTION: KendallC to draft protocol section on specifying datasets
14:39:37 <DanC> (fromUnionQuery) including WSDL types and HTTP examples
14:40:36 <DanC> params: default-graph-uri named-graph-uri
14:41:28 <DanC>             <xs:element minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="1" ref="default-graph-uri"></xs:elemen>t
14:41:28 <DanC>             <xs:element minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" ref="named-graph-uri"></xs:element>
14:41:44 <DanC> (hmm... spaces between them or multiple occurences?)
14:42:59 <DaveB> fwiw output-xslt-params isn't as important as having an output-xslt-mime-type
14:43:07 <DanC> named-graph-uri=x1&named-graph-uri=x2
14:43:41 <AndyS> Do we want to use "default" in rq23 so protocol and rq23 agree?  We have tended to say "default", not "background" in discussions.
14:43:52 <DaveB> I'm waiting for http defn, examples.  nothing there yet
14:44:12 <DanC> typo: </xs:elemen>t
14:44:38 <Yoshio> q+ to ask what if no deafult-graph-uri is given
14:45:31 <kendall> Andy: I'd like them to agree, so "default" works for me in rq23
14:45:32 <DaveB> why are the complexType contents in a sequence?  surely the contents is unordered?
14:46:50 <kendall> DaveB: yr right. don't need seq. i'll think about that and fix.
14:47:29 <Yoshio> zakim, unmute me
14:47:29 <Zakim> Yoshio should no longer be muted
14:49:25 <kendall> (ah, the xs:sequences are artifacts of my schema editor...)
14:50:42 <AndyS> I'm happy
14:51:25 <DaveB> q+ a minor point
14:51:47 <Yoshio> please someone summary up the answer to my question?
14:52:11 <kendall> Yoshio: the behavior of an implementation when there is no default-graph-uri specified is itself unspecified
14:52:46 <kendall> "output-xslt-mime-type"...is what Dave wants...
14:53:05 <kendall> i thought that would be one of the output params
14:54:01 <AndyS> I only support client-applied XSLT (currently) - server adds stylesheet, client auto does the xform
14:56:08 <AndyS> Dave - would XSLT on client be OK for your usage?
14:57:37 <AndyS> (such XSLT may be client accessible only - firewalls)
14:57:48 <DaveB> I was saying sparqlx is operation2 of the only interface
14:58:14 <DaveB> like an xslt transform, it's likely/possible this isn't implemetned
14:58:22 <DaveB> sparqlx status is ...?uncertain?
14:59:49 <ericP> q+ to discuss consistent language vs. consistent services
15:00:26 <DaveB> I also see the proto-wd has a bunch of identifiers for languages and (some) unregistered mime types or xml vbr etc. in the saddle section.  hmm.  should xml vbr give a mime type hint?
15:01:28 <AndyS> I hope to implment when there is a spec (HTTP examples should be enough). SOAP later.
15:01:38 <DaveB> in tuscany I used output-type
15:01:41 <DanC> output-type
15:01:43 <DanC> is what i heard
15:01:55 <DaveB> and what I used at http://librdf.org/2005/sparqling
15:01:56 <kendall> output-xslt-mimetype work?
15:04:02 <kendall> I agree that it makes things easier to teach users, but that's not a reason to *specify* it, IMO
15:04:46 <DaveB> andy mentions he generates <?xml-stylesheet ... > optionally
15:04:59 <kendall> +1 to eric's point
15:05:47 <DaveB> can somebody type eric's point?
15:05:59 <DanC> ericP: I'd rather leave XSLT outboard.
15:06:01 <kendall> (sorry, hard to scribe and discuss at the same time)
15:06:31 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:06:43 <kendall> +q to make a point about query/queryx
15:07:26 <Zakim> +??P0
15:07:38 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
15:07:38 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:07:38 <ericP> P0, is that you AndyS?
15:11:37 <kendall> (well, fwiw, when it was *very* simple, i wasn't grudging. now that it's getting more complex, i'm more grudging. :)
15:12:13 <AndyS> Tend to agree with KC
15:12:13 <DanC> POLL: (0) no XSLT anywhere in SPARQL protocol, (1) ala Andy, a pointer that will come back in <?xml-stylesheet ?> for the client, (2) yes, standardize an interface where the server does XSLT, with mimetype and all
15:12:59 <DanC> ack yoshio
15:14:16 <DanC> 2 0 0/1 - 0/1 0 - 0/1 0 0
15:14:24 <AndyS> and Andy abstains
15:14:43 <DanC> note Alberto and maybe morten does 2
15:15:01 <AndyS> q+ to ask what is (non SWEB) practice
15:15:24 <DaveB> 3 impls of this vs 0 of wsdl :)
15:15:41 <kendall> so?
15:15:43 <ericP> q- ericP
15:16:43 <jannes> Dave, put +1 on a WSDL side, too. We've implemented such as thing about a year ago for our product (but not the one we're discussing here)
15:20:00 <DanC> DaveB: how about a separate interface: query-and-transform
15:21:30 <DanC> Topic: protocol publication candidate
15:21:38 <DanC> . ACTION: kendall to uncommment saddle stuff, email to list
15:22:16 <DanC> . ACTION: Yoshio to edit saddle descriptions provided by KendallC
15:24:05 <kendall> I intended to try to have a conversation with Yoshio, on list, in response to his questions...
15:24:19 <kendall> hoping others will join in :>
15:25:08 <kendall> zakim, mute me
15:25:08 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:25:37 <DanC> ACTION: Yoshio to edit saddle descriptions provided by KendallC [Continues]
15:25:42 <AndyS> q-
15:25:45 <kendall> yes, bijan owes the world answers (bijan and Jacek)
15:25:49 <kendall> that's done
15:25:51 <DanC> 1.35 does ACTION: KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting to taste
15:25:53 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
15:25:53 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:26:17 <DanC> . ACTION: KendallC to ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs
15:26:32 <DanC> continues.
15:26:41 <DanC> . ACTION: DanC to generate SELECT, CONSTRUCT, ASK protocol traces
15:26:54 <kendall> there was so much free time at the rules workshop! :>
15:27:24 <kendall> sounds right to me
15:27:36 <DanC> Topic: results format
15:27:37 <kendall> critical path of protocol draft is still danc, eric, yoshio, kendall
15:27:54 <jeen> q+ on status of rdf varbinding results format vs. xml varbinding format
15:27:57 <DanC> EricP http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ 1.29 looks ready to go
15:28:44 <kendall> zakim, mute me
15:28:44 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:29:24 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
15:29:24 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:29:29 <kendall> (sorry, phone won't stop ringing)
15:30:18 <DaveB> ref 2.3.3 of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/
15:31:06 <kendall> sorry, dave :>
15:32:30 <kendall> pfffhthhthttt!
15:32:38 <kendall> Jeen asks what the status of the RDF results format is
15:32:50 <kendall> SteveH has an action to publish it as a Note at his leisure
15:32:53 <DaveB> discussion lead to ericP pubbing rf1 and protocol at same time; rf1 waits for protocol
15:32:55 <kendall> Which  may never happen
15:33:12 <jannes> 60 mins up, I would need to run for tonight
15:33:44 <DanC> Topic: issue: valueTesting
15:33:49 <kendall> bye Janne
15:33:50 <Zakim> -JanneS
15:33:56 <Yoshio> iltaa
15:33:57 <jannes> jannes has left #dawg
15:34:07 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#extendedType-eq-pass
15:34:08 <DanC> . ACTION: EricP to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe
15:34:10 <kendall> EricP to propose a test case for valuetesting
15:34:27 <kendall> wants the action to continue with progress noted
15:35:05 <DaveB> I got it now
15:35:17 <DanC> $Revision: 1.38 $ http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#extendedtype-eq-pass
15:36:41 <DanC> FILTER ?rot1 = ?rot2
15:36:43 <DaveB> I wish I could see the results in that document
15:37:05 <DaveB> the result http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ValueTesting/extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 is a 404 here
15:37:36 <DanC> 404 @ http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ValueTesting/extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3
15:38:18 <DaveB> there's a system error mesage for ne-fail
15:38:22 <DanC> "cannot open 'data/ValueTesting/extendedType-ne-fail.rq' for printing: No such file or directory"
15:38:36 <kendall> 2/3rds...cheap
15:40:07 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to send comment on non-use of
15:40:07 <DanC> <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-datatypes> to schema comments list
15:41:09 <DanC> Topic: issue: sort
15:41:39 <DaveB> added something?
15:42:08 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sorting-one-of-one-column
15:43:13 <DaveB> they are not sorted results in those answers right now
15:43:23 <kendall> (Some discussion of whether the test results are correct?)
15:43:33 <kendall> (er, scratch that)
15:43:39 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/Sorting/one-of-one-column-result.n3
15:44:16 <DaveB> I'd prefer if the vbr xml term was the same as in the http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/result-set
15:44:50 <jeen> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/sort/
15:45:47 <DaveB> vbr xml orders from 1
15:47:17 <kendall> how do you spell that?
15:47:31 <AndyS> Seems to be me
15:47:34 <kendall> zakim, mute me
15:47:34 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:47:42 <AndyS> I'm muted here now
15:47:45 <DaveB> discussion went to use rs:index and ordering from 1...
15:47:46 <kendall> DC's a rough town!
15:48:03 <AndyS> That email thread was small details only
15:48:15 <AndyS> Have not tried todays test - rest were fine by me
15:48:20 <DaveB> I found a typo in the sort/manifest.ttl - newline in a "literal"
15:48:25 <DanC> andy, are you happy with the "more sorting test cases" thread state?
15:48:45 <AndyS> Have not tried latest test but rest was OK
15:49:30 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
15:49:30 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:49:38 <AndyS> Q1: non-determinate output
15:49:51 <DanC> "ORDER BY" section of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#solutionsResults
15:50:12 <AndyS> Hodl on ...
15:50:53 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:51:03 <DanC> DanC is looking for definitions text re order by
15:51:29 <AndyS> sec 10.1
15:51:41 <Zakim> +??P0
15:51:53 <DaveB> I just ran all the sort/*.rq tests - so the syntax is ok, but my sort checker runs sort(1) before comparing so that's not much use here!
15:51:56 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
15:51:56 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:52:59 <kendall> (nice)
15:53:33 <DanC> PROPOSED: that http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ 1.328 and @@TEST address the sort issue
15:54:53 <jeen> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/sort/query-sort-1.rq
15:55:11 <AndyS> .me passed 8 of 8 after a CVS update - not looked at test 8 yet
15:55:28 <DanC> PROPOSED: that http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ 1.328 and the test including http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/sort/query-sort-1.rq address the sort issue
15:56:16 <DanC> poll... jeen... andy...
15:57:24 <DaveB> there's no chance I'll do sorting in a week.  maybe in 2 months
15:58:16 <kendall> I will have looked at them carefully in a week.
15:59:11 <DanC> DanC suggests that Andy do a "I hereby propose this for sort" msg to stir up any remaining comments
15:59:28 <DanC> Topic: SPARQL QL edits
15:59:49 <DanC> well, actually not.
16:00:22 <AndyS> I declare victory on 7 action 1 
16:00:25 <DanC> ADJOURN. workshop chat after.
16:00:39 <Zakim> -JosD
16:00:45 <Zakim> -Kevin
16:00:47 <KevinW> KevinW has left #DAWG
16:00:48 <howardk> bye all
16:00:58 <Zakim> -HowardK
16:01:14 <Zakim> -Jeen_Broekstra
16:01:43 <Zakim> -Yoshio
16:01:47 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
16:02:50 <jeen> jeen has left #dawg