EOWG -- 29 Apr 2005

<Justin> Justin, ?P8 is Justin

<Justin> i did the second hr. last week

<Justin> ill do the second hour oday

<Justin> *today

<shawn> scribe: Alan, Justin

<rcastaldo> Hi folks

<pasquale> ciao Rob

<rcastaldo> ciao

[Agenda changes. Slides moved up]

Selecting people to help with Web accessibility

JB: Check had talked about it with group at Boston Technical Plenary.
... CL has been working on draft requirements document

http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-selectinghelp.html

<shawn> scribe: Alan

<shawn> scribenick: scribe

CL: Have produced draft. Incoroprated lots of material. Scope has grown since initial discussion. Feedback, help volunteers, please.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/Talks/wai-components/Overview.html

SH: Scope was intentionally kept small to begin with, at TP.

CL: Only see changelog, not comments

JB: [Purpose section] Three items cover all scope?

[No dissent]

JB: [Purpose: Notes and brainstorming] Item about contract is outside scope.

CL: Have marked with question marks, how far each item is beyond initial scope.
... Maybe it's too early draft for people to respond to.

JB: Look at Audience section.

HB: Why usability in Purpose section?

HB = Harvey

SH: Should not include usability beyond scope of accessibility.

CL: Intention was that when recruiting an accessibility person, should check on usability skills too.

RC: We should concentrate on accessibility and remove usability from Purpose list

SH: Remember from TP discussion that people are hired as accessibility specialists but are really usability specialists, with secondary accessibility knowledge (or vice versa)
... Agree that we should decouple the two, but it's common to hire a general website person and will need to know how to evaluate accessibility skills independently of usability.

[Section on Use]

JB: Could go in Evaluation Suite, or Implementation Planning suite

[Headings]

RC: How about "Choosing a WA professional"

AC: The title implies (to me) working with people with disabilities, which is braoder.

SH: Maybe we should include that in scope.

JB: What about other terms: professional, specialist, consultant, etc

Jack: Prefer "professional"

JB: CL, please take document and come back with first draft.

CL: Maybe it's a low priority in WAI.

JB: We can discuss it, even if not right away.

Jack: I'm interested in taking part.

Pasquale: Me too.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/Talks/wai-components/Overview.html

Components slides

SH: Give people a few moments to look at them.

<Justin> scribe: Justin

JB: Overall reaction

HB: Good summary

<shawn> scribenick: justin

DS: Images and graphics worked well.

HB: Those are long descriptions on imgs

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog move long alts into long desc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action01]

SLH: Those are alts I need to make long descs

JW: It seem like there was a lot more stuff we were trying to say. I am not quite sure how this is going to be used. As a thing by itself I am not sure that it does the job.

SLH: For purpose - for their own presenations, self study....maybe we don't want to try to do both
... How do we want to provide this? Is self-study one of the purposes? How do we balance between short and simple and getting ppl into the document.

JB: overall length of the slide set?

DS: About right

JB: Complexity?
... seems the farther I got through the slides the more conceptually dense the slides got

JW: I would agree with it being conceptualy dense. We are assuming that people are going to know these concepts.

JB: I have done a lot of presentations using parts of "essential components..." I have used this type of flow. I have been trying to read the slides from the naive user point of view. I would love these slides to have dual purpose.

HB: Do we have links?

JB: This could be away to bridge the dual processes

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog add more to Introduction and Source Material at beginning & end [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action02]

DS: I think that helps.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog look at putting links within the slides to more info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action03]

JW: I think it would help to clarify the material that you have.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog relook at titles (e.g., "weak" getting lost) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action04]

JW: If you had a link that would go to a glossary type of thing, that would be good. I think its more explaining the concept.

correct

<Helle> zakim please unmute me

PP: For self study it works well

JB: More questions

SLH: Can we look at the point of view as input for presentations?

JB: On some of the slides the graphic is at the bottom. I would love to have the graphics on seperate slides or positioined them differently.

SLH: I tried moving them around but it just didn't work.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog look at positioning images [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action05]

HBJ: Having the notes on one slide and graphic on the next would work for a presentation

SA: I guess I am looking for more information

Roberto: I have seen this presentation many times. The slide show is a good resource. I contains the most important resources. The person who speaks can talk about it.

DS: It is good. I like it as it is. I think with the graphic at the bottom makes it a little difficult.

HBJ: I sometimes when we look at these as presentations. Maybe have a more skimmed down for presentation. Then we would have two sets.

SLH: I would recommend using this as a handout.
... This text seems like it would be more like speakers notes.

HBJ: Slide #5 is a lot of text and a big photo

HB: There are a number of peopel who dont' have a clue what assistive technology is.

JB: I think a lot of times when one is presenting. Presenters can figure out when people are getting lost.
... Maybe we can get a quick thing up right now and then work on specific versions later.
... Are there a few things that would make this more usable and more dual purpose right now.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changelog reconsider slide 6 Interdependencies Between Components [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action06]

JB: Slide 6 was the one that pushed me over the edge for conceptual density.

HB: There is a graphic that shows all these interdependencies?

SLH: Yes on the previous
... If i were presenting you would see one bullet at a time

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changlog typo "textin" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action07]

JB: This is causing the user to do gymnastics i their head.

SA: Have you played around with quote or italics to show what is a header or what is said verbally.
... People should be able to adapt them to their specific needs

JB: Just do a hide thing

Justin: agrees

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changlog slide 6: idea of adding images, fixing info overload [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action08]

HBJ: I think hiding speaker text is a good idea. For self study does it have to be a slide set? at a conference the self study would be the paper.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn /changlog consider possibility of showing or hiding explanation text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/29-eo-minutes.html#action09]

JB: I am always excited to learn when the material is available in a slide set format.
... We need to do more of online learning

Roberto: I am not sure that the slide show can be available for such learning.

That was roberto

<shawn> (that might actually fix it in the minutes :)

JB: You could go into an online learner mode using css switching
... Would that make it more dual purpose

JW: I agree with making it dual purpose.
... Is this self study focus, dual purpose, or presentation?

SLH: This is all very helpful

JW: Lets try using this thing and use this as further input.

sure

Update on Coordination with EO work with WAB Cluster

JB: We have talked about projects working with WAB cluster. There are a few ppl who are participating from WAI groups. Some EO members are participating
... They are working on different pieces of things outside EO. We could have a task force.
... We are thinking of having people working on specific pieces together.
... Are there other people interested in joining the discussions of Evaluations Resources Suite?

HBJ: How are we distinguishing the user testing and the evaluation testing.

SLH: Its an important issue and would love to discuss it.

HBJ: We are actively discussing it in Denmark.

JB: The person who is doing the overal collaboration has been purposing that the people in the group contributing more generally.
... New folks could be joining the group in the near future.

Web Site Update

SLH: I think we will have a version for testing next week.

oops that was SLH

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ut3/gettingstarted/Overview.html

SLH: the CSS is in flux
... if you want to watch this space, you can watch as it evolves
... I am hoping by the end of the week. I can ask people to do the last round of testing.
... Schedule time the week of may 9th.

HB: i have requested that the old site be archived.

SLH: Remind me of that.

May Schedule

SA: Next Week is a holiday in much of europe

<Helle> Helle yes

<shadi> SAZ: no

<shawn> fri 6 may

<rcastaldo> yes

<shawn> ds: yes

JB: Could people indicate in IRC if ppl are avaialbe for May 6th

<shawn> jack: yes

<pasquale> yes

yes

<shawn> slh: no

<Helle> yes

<shawn> fri 20 may

<shadi> saz: yes

<rcastaldo> yes

<shawn> slh: probably

JB: could people indicate for may 20th?

<shawn> ds: yes

<pasquale> yes

<shawn> jack: yes

no - finals week

<Helle> yes

<Harvey> Harvey: all Fridays in May OK

<shawn> NO teleconference on 13 May or 27 May

<rcastaldo> bye all :-)

<pasquale> bye

<shawn> changeloggers: Chuck & Shawn

- DRAFT -

EOWG

29 Apr 2005

Attendees

Contents

Selecting people to help with Web accessibility

Components slides

Update on Coordination with EO work with WAB Cluster

Web Site Update

May Schedule

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output