14:29:05 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 14:29:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc 14:29:09 +Yoshio 14:29:12 can anyone hear me? 14:29:38 +Jeen_Broekstra 14:29:48 -EricP 14:29:58 zakim, please dial hugo-617 14:29:58 ok, ericP; the call is being made 14:30:00 +Hugo 14:30:07 testing? 14:30:20 myabe there's a mute button somewhere on this strange device 14:30:28 Zakim, who's muted? 14:30:28 I see no one muted 14:30:34 +Kendall_Clark 14:31:12 i have the phone wires in my teeth, actually 14:31:26 Regrets: JosD, Howard, Alberto, KevinW 14:31:32 Zakim, take up agendum 1 14:31:32 agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0165.html" taken up [from DanC] 14:31:37 Regrets: JosD, Howard, Alberto, KevinW 14:31:43 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:31:43 On the phone I see DaveB, AndyS, DanC, Yoshio, Jeen_Broekstra, Hugo, Kendall_Clark 14:32:05 Eric's $1 cellphone is fun till it starts shocking him! 14:32:51 +[IBM] 14:33:31 (auditing http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/#who ... missing Bijan. odd.) 14:33:40 hi 14:34:29 who is [IBM] ? 14:34:35 jakim, whos on the phone? 14:34:37 zakim, whos on the phone? 14:34:37 I don't understand your question, SteveH. 14:34:45 +1 14:34:51 ericP, [IBM] might be me 14:35:09 last weeks minutes approved 14:35:19 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jeen_Broekstra 14:35:20 zakim, mute me 14:35:22 sorry, SteveH, I do not see a party named 'SteveH' 14:35:23 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Hugo 14:35:28 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark 14:35:39 zakim, Hugo is really EricP 14:35:39 +EricP; got it 14:35:44 scribe next week: KendallC/DanC 14:36:18 Zakim, next agendum 14:36:18 agendum 2. "issue: fromUnionQuery" taken up [from DanC] 14:36:55 looking at 1.31 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ 14:36:55 +??P30 14:37:01 for the record, continued actions: 14:37:02 ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff (xmlAbstractSyntax) 14:37:05 ACTION: AndyS to define a term for abstract form of SPARQL query 14:37:08 ACTION: PatH to internal review of rq23 14:37:10 ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG Note (no deadline/urgency) 14:37:13 ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple 14:37:16 ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page 14:37:18 ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve 14:37:21 ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) 14:37:28 JanneS has joined #dawg 14:37:33 KendallC: HTTP binding spec is fluid. attribute names changing. 14:38:12 ... parts not dependent on that are all done. 14:38:41 ... went with 1 default graph and one or more named graphs 14:38:54 zakim, unmute me 14:38:54 sorry, SteveH, I do not see a party named 'SteveH' 14:39:17 JanneS2 has joined #dawg 14:39:21 Andy's proposal, as I understood it, was for 1 default graph and for zero or more named graphs. 14:40:02 (sorry for joining late, the unknown ID would be me) 14:40:19 DanC: steve, what if you get only one background graph? 14:40:47 Minor - can there be zero default graph URIs? 14:41:05 Steve: need to read the proposal 14:41:26 Not sure it makes a huge difference. Might default to empty?? 14:41:35 KendallC: I understood 0 or more BG and 0 or more named at the end of the last Telecon 14:41:38 q+ to ask can one ask the server what is used as the background graph? 14:42:12 ... I understood Andy's modification to be a simplification 14:42:36 It works for me to have zero background graphs 14:42:51 Janne has joined #dawg 14:42:55 q+ to say the critical issue to me is whether i can do prov queries on the BG graph 14:43:32 ACTION: EricP to try out the "2 list of URIs" datasets design from 14:43:43 CONTINUED 14:46:03 KendallC: I'm confident that what we express what we want in HTTP. not sure what the exact bytes are for the WSLD HTTP binding. 14:46:28 DanC: you use a complex type. iirc, the HTTP GET binding only specifies simple types. 14:46:42 This is what I'm talking about: 14:46:43 http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-wsdl20-bindings-20040803/#_operation_styles 14:47:16 seems to me it's way to early to be using wsdl2 here, when it takes 10 mins to write an http binding for sparql 14:47:30 ok? ACTION KendallC: ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs 14:47:45 EricP: there are two open source WSDL 2.0 impls at apache 14:48:14 ACTION KendallC: ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs 14:48:51 Zakim, next agendum 14:48:51 agendum 3. "issue: wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC] 14:49:09 i believe all three actions are in RRSAgents brain 14:49:16 btw, it's the xs:choice between SparqlX and xs:string forms of the query that is at issue 14:49:28 ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on WSDL description added to protocol to editor's draft). 14:49:46 (blending with next agendum) 14:49:54 -Jeen_Broekstra 14:50:01 crap 14:50:24 ACTION: KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting to taste 14:50:52 + +1.313.346.aaaa 14:51:37 this bit: 14:51:38 14:51:38 14:51:38 14:51:39 14:52:05 14:53:59 ack 14:54:09 AndyS: would like to see the protocol spec aligned with DaveB's result set syntax 14:55:10 ... outer tag is called 14:55:22 ... is used elsewhere 14:56:07 KendallC: will fix before publication 14:56:46 ack danc 14:56:46 DanC, you wanted to ask for an example of a SELECT, a CONSTRUCT, and an ASK 14:57:28 ... what's harder is that the result is a choice between to elements 14:57:48 DanC: i think you need two interfaces 14:58:01 q+ 14:58:41 ... make your best guess. this is what you want the community to review. 14:58:59 ack yoshio 14:58:59 Yoshio, you wanted to ask can one ask the server what is used as the background graph? 15:00:07 [[ 15:00:07 _:factBookService 15:00:07 saddle:dataSet <...fact-book-part-1.rdf>, <...fact-book-part-2.rdf>. 15:00:08 ]] 15:00:13 yoshio: [above Q: +] can we use sadl to ask about the BG names 15:01:02 danc: there is a notion of a saddle data set 15:01:31 yes, http://www.w3.org/2005/03/saddle/# is 404 unfortunately 15:02:03 yoshio: is namespace .../# acceptable? 15:02:36 DanC: not aware of any prob. 15:03:00 EricP: http://www.w3.org/2005/03/saddle/#somethingClever is serializable as a qname 15:03:36 (ok, fwiw, the misalignment with results format is fixed, now...in version 1.32) 15:04:00 (too bad, could have used it to get good ACTION karma) 15:04:05 :> 15:04:50 ACTION Yoshio: edit saddle descriptions provided by KendallC 15:04:55 ACTION kendall: uncommment saddle stuff, email to list 15:05:25 SteveH has joined #dawg 15:06:51 q- 15:06:51 ACTION DanC: generate SELECT, CONSTRUCT, ASK protocol traces 15:06:58 ack ericp 15:06:58 ericP, you wanted to say the critical issue to me is whether i can do prov queries on the BG graph 15:07:01 oh, come on, we all know you don't *really* care about rules! :> 15:07:51 I was just going to give info, I won't be using this protocol draft without an http section with examples in it 15:08:47 PROPOSED: to publish protocol WD, contingent on inclusion of HTTP examples, saddle examples 15:08:49 DanC: any problem with publishing SPARQL protocol on Fri? 15:09:00 PROPOSED: to publish protocol WD, contingent on inclusion of HTTP examples, saddle prose 15:09:24 DaveB: not useful to me unless there are HTTP examples. 15:10:06 yoshio: w3c's rules workshop is this week, Wed & Thur, in DC. 15:10:15 DanC: critical path: KendallC, YoshioF, EricP, DanC 15:10:21 RESOLVED 15:10:52 which namespace is 404? 15:11:00 Zakim, next agendum 15:11:00 agendum 4. "protocol publication candidate" taken up [from DanC] 15:11:05 Zakim, close agendum 4 15:11:05 agendum 4 closed 15:11:06 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:11:07 5. SPARQL Query Results XML Format [from DanC] 15:11:08 Zakim, next agendum 15:11:08 agendum 4 was just opened, DanC 15:11:21 Zakim, take up item 4 15:11:21 agendum 4. "protocol publication candidate" taken up [from DanC] 15:11:34 well, even funnier for DanC not to really care about, which I what I meant (smart-assedly, to be sure) 15:11:47 s/I what/is what/ 15:13:39 ISSUE: Normativeness of the XML schemas. Pick one? 15:15:10 namespace no longer a 404 15:15:57 AndyS: given streaming requirents, you might want to say whether it's ordered 15:16:15 monotonicalliy increasing index integers 15:16:16 DaveB: will add that it's monotonically increasing 15:16:22 2.3.3 editorial note 15:16:25 4 also re schemas 15:18:14 DanC: it would be nice to publish the results wiht protocol 15:18:19 PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ 1.25 + editorial notes from DaveB 15:18:43 RESOLVED 15:19:03 Zakim, next agendum 15:19:03 agendum 5. "SPARQL Query Results XML Format " taken up [from DanC] 15:19:14 Zakim, close agendum 5 15:19:14 agendum 5 closed 15:19:15 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:19:16 6. issue: valueTesting [from DanC] 15:19:18 Zakim, take up item 6 15:19:18 agendum 6. "issue: valueTesting" taken up [from DanC] 15:20:28 zakim, mute me 15:20:29 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:21:20 ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting proposal 15:21:22 CONTINUED 15:21:30 ACTION: EricP to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe 15:21:32 CONTINUED 15:23:46 ACTION DanC: send comment on non-use of to schema comments list 15:25:00 scribe is losing a lot of audio. please back me up by scribing important things you notice 15:25:20 Zakim, close this item 15:25:20 agendum 6 closed 15:25:21 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:25:22 7. issue: sort [from DanC] 15:25:23 agenda? 15:25:23 AndyS: EricP, is the spec alligned with your head? 15:25:32 zakim, unmute me 15:25:32 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:25:43 EricP: Yes it is aligned. 15:25:43 Zakim, next agendum 15:25:43 agendum 7. "issue: sort" taken up [from DanC] 15:25:45 Zakim, unmute me 15:25:45 Jeen should no longer be muted 15:25:49 EricP: yes, needs expanding, not directly contradictory 15:25:54 zakim, mute me 15:25:54 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:26:12 does 1.42 of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ include Jeen's tests? 15:27:02 ACTION: JeenB to Write a few sort test cases. 15:27:08 (hardware problems... ew... that's why I want redundancy in the ability to regen the .html) 15:27:18 (andy did or did not get the same answers?) 15:27:21 DanC, agreed 15:27:24 DanC, DONE? 15:27:33 not sure yet, ericp 15:28:32 q+ to ask if redundant bNodes are smushed 15:28:49 KevinW has joined #DAWG 15:29:02 AndyS: i can pass some of JeenB's tests, but not all 15:29:06 CONTINUED 15:30:06 (I've made 1.26 of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ with issues) 15:30:11 AndyS: Passes for the wrong reasons (failure to check indexes) 15:30:29 hostile irc mutings?! :> 15:30:58 +Kevin 15:32:14 (andys, checked in fix for test 1, should work now) 15:32:25 Thanks. 15:32:33 Zakim, next agendum 15:32:33 agendum 8. "issue: punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC] 15:32:44 -groan- 15:33:50 Pass (with weak testing only) 15:34:15 AndyS: i consider the grammar in bugfix mode 15:35:19 triple-quoted strings, like python? """Hi, I'm a string"""? 15:35:45 SteveH, is there a reason to have WHERE optional? 15:36:35 I agree with steve on """s, WHERE {} compulsory 15:36:57 ack ericp 15:36:57 ericP, you wanted to ask if redundant bNodes are smushed 15:37:13 """ has an issue about line ends :-) 15:37:13 what's the line-end issue? 15:37:22 (just trying to make sure I heard correctly) 15:37:38 SteveH has joined #dawg 15:37:40 yes, like python, """Hi, I'm a string""" 15:37:57 thx 15:38:50 lots of drop out. DaveB, please scribe. 15:38:51 DanC: If we have a bare NL in a string, can be \r\n or \n -- Linux or Windows 15:39:03 just acking that """turtle style""" is ok 15:39:16 and make these things compulsory: 1) WHERE 2 ) outer {} 15:39:19 yes, an both \r\n and \n have the same impact? ah... no, the don't match the same things. I see. 15:42:41 PROPOSED: that the grammar in 1.326 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ addresses punctuationSyntax 15:42:51 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:42:51 On the phone I see DaveB, AndyS, DanC, Yoshio, EricP, Kendall_Clark (muted), [IBM], ??P30, Jeen, Kevin 15:43:01 detail detail, there's more clashes with turtle in the wd. 15:43:06 I've not read rq23 since then 15:43:40 DaveB: abstain or neigh 15:44:02 me abstains, too, need to reread - I need to run for tonight to do baby sitting, cu next week 15:44:14 -??P30 15:44:28 DanC: a lot of people want turtle alignment 15:44:31 I have no time before next telcon 15:44:41 ... makes DaveB (close to) critical path 15:44:53 Janne has left #dawg 15:45:41 EricP: I got LALR [(1)?] problems with {} 15:45:50 ericP I presently have no conflicts, but I think I ripped out some bits 15:45:52 () 15:45:58 wow, audio is awful 15:48:38 lol 15:49:49 -Kendall_Clark 15:51:34 Zakim, agenda? 15:51:34 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: 15:51:36 8. issue: punctuationSyntax [from DanC] 15:51:37 9. reconsider issue useMentionOp? [from DanC] 15:51:38 10. test suite maintenance [from DanC] 15:52:43 let's see, my lexer has 4 states for IDs, prefixes and """-literals x2 15:54:54 q+ to say what surprised me in Dave's message was that "." can be understood as a part of a variable name, which grammar is it specified in? 15:54:54 (so Andy, a hunk of java linked from grammar section would be quite resopnsive to my requests.) 15:55:17 (linked fromt the grammar section and published as part of the WD) 15:55:39 next agendum 15:56:17 I was saying I use approx. first 60 tokens in yacc, then do my own thing in lexer. turtle stuff I threw away and took from my turtle parser/lexer 15:56:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0154.html 15:56:35 Zakim, close this agendum 15:56:35 agendum 9 closed 15:56:36 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 15:56:37 10. test suite maintenance [from DanC] 15:57:06 ideally, i would like a spec that allowed an implementation without being very clever 15:57:31 +1 15:57:39 -DanC 15:57:40 ADJOURNED 15:57:45 -AndyS 15:57:46 oh 15:57:47 -[IBM] 15:57:47 bye 15:57:48 -Kevin 15:57:51 -DaveB 15:58:01 -Yoshio 15:58:01 -EricP 15:58:14 ericP: i've done hopefully all the rf1 changes that I'm going to, over to you 15:58:25 roger that 15:59:12 -Jeen 15:59:13 SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended 15:59:15 Attendees were DaveB, DanC, AndyS, EricP, Yoshio, Jeen_Broekstra, Kendall_Clark, [IBM], +1.313.346.aaaa, Jeen, Kevin 15:59:58 jeen has left #dawg 16:01:49 DaveB? what surprised me in your message was that "." can be understood as a part of a variable name, which grammar is it specified in? 16:02:14 SteveH has joined #dawg 16:02:24 (^_^;) 16:04:01 DaveB has joined #dawg 16:05:00 DaveB? what surprised me in your message was that "." can be understood as a part of a variable name, which grammar is it specified in? (in case you missed what I typed in just before you leave) 16:05:21 KevinW has left #DAWG 16:05:37 what grammar? it's in xml qnames I think 16:05:41 but n3 doesn't like it 16:05:45 and turtle currently doesn't allow it 16:06:03 we're moving to allow . in both sparql and turtle 16:06:21 and use the same xml qnames definition 16:06:47 ah, so not yet in the documents 16:07:28 Any idea of when might there be an updated Turtle spec? 16:08:57 hmm, I support having "." as in N3, but not like haveing it as a part of a variable name... 16:09:01 maybe end of next week but www2005 priorities 16:09:33 variable names will have additional restrictions 16:09:38 no '-' 16:09:49 agree 16:10:30 and no '.' says AndyS, I just found his mail to check 16:12:02 I'm happy 16:12:14 anyway, thanks for clarifying 16:12:39 I'll wait for the new syntax 17:59:12 ha, I found a test bug 17:59:20 and I agree with ARQ, so it's not my bug 17:59:34 ex11.2.3.6_0.rq ex11.2.3.6_0.n3 17:59:38 answer should be 17:59:44 ----------------------------------------- 17:59:44 | name | mbox | 17:59:44 ========================================= 17:59:44 | "Alice" | | 17:59:44 ----------------------------------------- 17:59:51 result file says rs:value "alice@work.example" ; 18:00:00 it's a uri, not a string 18:05:13 Zakim has left #dawg 18:06:06 RRSAgent: please leave us 18:06:06 I see 19 open action items: 18:06:06 ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff (xmlAbstractSyntax) [1] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-02 18:06:06 ACTION: AndyS to define a term for abstract form of SPARQL query [2] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-05 18:06:06 ACTION: PatH to internal review of rq23 [3] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-08 18:06:06 ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG Note (no deadline/urgency) [4] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-10 18:06:06 ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [5] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-13 18:06:06 ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page [6] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-16 18:06:06 ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [7] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-18 18:06:06 ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [8] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-37-21 18:06:06 ACTION: EricP to try out the "2 list of URIs" datasets design from [9] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-43-32 18:06:06 ACTION: KendallC to ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs [10] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-48-14 18:06:06 ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on WSDL description added to protocol to editor's draft). [11] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-49-28 18:06:06 ACTION: KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting to taste [12] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T14-50-24 18:06:06 ACTION: Yoshio to edit saddle descriptions provided by KendallC [13] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-04-50 18:06:06 ACTION: kendall to uncommment saddle stuff, email to list [14] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-04-55 18:06:06 ACTION: DanC to generate SELECT, CONSTRUCT, ASK protocol traces [15] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-06-51-1 18:06:06 ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting proposal [16] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-21-20 18:06:06 ACTION: EricP to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe [17] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-21-30 18:06:06 ACTION: DanC to send comment on non-use of to schema comments list [18] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-23-46 18:06:06 ACTION: JeenB to Write a few sort test cases. [19] 18:06:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-dawg-irc#T15-27-02