16:57:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
16:57:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc
16:57:48 <Ralph> Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment
16:57:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swbp
16:57:56 <Ralph> zakim, this will be swbp
16:57:56 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
16:58:04 <Zakim> SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started
16:58:05 <Ralph> Chair: DavidW
16:58:11 <Zakim> +David_Wood
16:58:41 <Zakim> +??P3
16:58:44 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059.html
16:59:00 <Zakim> +Alistair_Miles (was ??P3)
16:59:03 <Ralph> Ralph has changed the topic to: 21-April WG telecon agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059.html
16:59:24 <Zakim> +??P5
16:59:26 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:59:37 <jjc> jjc has joined #swbp
16:59:38 <PhilT> PhilT has joined #swbp
16:59:59 <DavidW> DavidW has joined #swbp
17:00:20 <Ralph> Regrets: GuusS, SteveP, BenjaminN, NatashaN, DanBri, TomB, DarrenG, GaryN, MarcoN, BrianM, AldoG
17:00:34 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html previous 2004-04-07
17:01:17 <Ralph> Regrets+ ValentinaP
17:01:33 <DavidW> Regrets:  Jeff Pan, Valentina Presutti
17:01:58 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
17:02:16 <Ralph> zakim, sophia is Fabien
17:02:16 <Zakim> +Fabien; got it
17:02:42 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #swbp
17:02:51 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
17:03:13 <Zakim> +Phil_Tetlow
17:03:41 <Ralph> Scribe: Jeremy
17:03:53 <Ralph> ScribeNick: Jeremy
17:04:49 <Jeremy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059
17:04:51 <Jeremy> agenda
17:05:59 <Jeremy> ending time 18:25 UTC but might be shorter
17:06:07 <DavidW> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the April 7 telecon:
17:06:07 <DavidW>   http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html
17:06:08 <Jeremy> minutes of last telecon
17:06:09 <Zakim> +Gavin_McKenzie
17:06:21 <Jeremy> ralph seconds
17:06:25 <Jeremy> no objections
17:06:29 <Jeremy> so moved
17:06:30 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
17:06:38 <Zakim> +??P14
17:06:38 <DavidW> PROPOSED next telecon
17:06:38 <DavidW>     5 May, 1700 UTC
17:06:41 <Ralph> s/moved/RESOLVED/
17:06:43 <Jeremy> next telecon proposal 5 May
17:06:46 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #swbp
17:07:28 <Jeremy> some doubt over whether chair will be available
17:07:39 <dlm> dlm has joined #swbp
17:07:40 <Jeremy> chair proposes to schedule call and possibly cancel
17:07:45 <libby> libby has joined #swbp
17:07:55 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
17:08:09 <dlm> note to scribe - i joined a few minutes ago
17:08:13 <Ralph> zakim, ??p14 is DebM
17:08:13 <Zakim> +DebM; got it
17:08:21 <Jeremy> Jeremy: I won't make it either, will Japan mess up people's availability?
17:08:49 <Jeremy> Ralph: my preference is to have a meeting
17:08:53 <Jeremy> even if short
17:09:13 <Jeremy> RESOLVED next meeting 5 may
17:09:18 <Zakim> -Phil_Tetlow
17:09:20 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking?
17:09:31 <Zakim> DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (22%), Alistair_Miles (5%), Ralph (14%)
17:09:35 <Ralph> I volunteer to chair on 5 May if necessary
17:10:00 <ekw> ekw has joined #swbp
17:10:09 <Jeremy> general actions, two both marked done
17:10:10 <DavidW> ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location
17:10:23 <DavidW>   DONE
17:10:23 <DavidW>   http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/ftf2005/
17:10:23 <DavidW> ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested
17:10:29 <DavidW>   participant has been unable to get a response from his AC Rep
17:10:29 <DavidW>   DONE?!?:
17:10:29 <DavidW>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0048.html
17:10:37 <Ralph> -- done
17:10:55 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
17:11:11 <Zakim> +Phil_Tetlow
17:11:38 <Zakim> -Phil_Tetlow
17:11:55 <Jeremy> agenda amendments move SE TF up to top of list
17:12:44 <Ralph> ^agenda^Topic: Admin
17:12:46 <Jeremy> Jeremy: might want to consider if we want to make a WG comment on SCD doc
17:13:42 <Jeremy> David: tough since no one has read it, discuss under action item
17:14:06 <Jeremy> 2.1 Liason discussion has been had at CG level, but still deadlocked
17:14:17 <Jeremy> 2.2 ODM review
17:14:22 <Ralph> ^2.1^Topic: Liaison
17:14:24 <Zakim> + +44.774.0.aaaa
17:14:32 <Jeremy> Guus's action continued
17:14:46 <ChrisW> that was elisa
17:14:54 <Jeremy> Deb's actions continued
17:14:56 <Ralph> ACTION Guus to review OWL metamodel
17:15:01 <Ralph> ACTION Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary
17:15:31 <Jeremy> (althought Pat Hayes comment addressed some of Deb's points)
17:15:45 <Jeremy> 2.3 XML Schema Component Designators
17:15:52 <Ralph> zakim, aaaa is Phil_Tetlow
17:15:52 <Zakim> +Phil_Tetlow; got it
17:15:52 <Jeremy> Jeremy posted review just before call
17:15:57 <Ralph> ACTION jjc to review XML schema LC draft
17:15:59 <Ralph> -- done
17:16:06 <Ralph> ACTION jeff to review XML schema LC draft
17:16:09 <Ralph> -- continues
17:16:25 <Ralph> Jeremy: I suggested a WG response that was positive
17:16:53 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
17:17:04 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alistair_Miles (15%), Jeremy (29%), Ralph (34%), Elisa_Kendall (4%), Libby_Miller (29%), Phil_Tetlow (10%)
17:17:10 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0073.html XML Schema Component Designators Review [Jeremy 2005-04-21]
17:17:12 <aliman> zakim, mute Alistair
17:17:12 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should now be muted
17:17:35 <Ralph> Jeremy: I suggested one comment we might want to make regarding namespace bindings
17:18:17 <Jeremy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0073
17:19:46 <Ralph> Ralph: suggests that Jeremy post his review to both WGs as his own review
17:19:52 <Jeremy> Jeremy: agree
17:20:34 <Jeremy> ACTION: jeremy post personal review to XSCD doc
17:21:17 <DavidW> ack Ralph
17:21:26 <Ralph> Topic: TF Updates
17:21:36 <Jeremy> item 3.10, SE
17:22:00 <Jeremy> Phil we're pretty close to second version of note for WG consideration, probably within next three weeks
17:22:07 <aliman> zakim, unmute alistair
17:22:07 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
17:22:35 <Zakim> -Phil_Tetlow
17:22:48 <Jeremy> 3.1 PORT
17:22:54 <Jeremy> Alistair: 
17:23:17 <Jeremy> SKOS core and docs, Tom Baker asked how SKOS Core is managed, and how that relates to W3C process
17:23:21 <Jeremy> and managing docs
17:23:35 <Jeremy> Current process model is editors can change it at any time
17:23:56 <Jeremy> So the current version of SKOS core can be out-of-sync with published WG note
17:24:10 <Jeremy> Meeting in Berlin Zoo
17:24:14 <Jeremy> last week
17:24:32 <aliman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0072.html
17:24:33 <Jeremy> suggested different process model that fits in with W3C process dor publishing docs
17:24:41 <Jeremy> as suggested in e-mail above
17:25:40 <Jeremy> After publication of WD by WG, SKOS Core is frozen, but possible changes are recorded
17:26:11 <Jeremy> any then with a new WD the changes agree by WG get rolled in to SKOS Core and new WD
17:26:43 <DavidW> ack Ralph
17:26:43 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask what "the editors can change it at any time" means
17:27:39 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
17:27:40 <DavidW> zakim, mute me
17:27:41 <Zakim> David_Wood should now be muted
17:28:26 <Jeremy> ralph: I saw small group of developers around SKOS and turning it into more formal W3C like process
17:28:35 <Jeremy> this is a change for the SKOS community
17:28:47 <Jeremy> may they be expecting to make more frequent changes?
17:30:20 <Jeremy> ralph: doing a diff on two versions of an editors draft should be able to be correlated with e-mail
17:30:34 <Jeremy> so that changes are owned by the WG through the e-mail
17:30:53 <Jeremy> Alistair: more informal version of DCMI usage board
17:31:37 <Jeremy> key change being proposed is that changes won't actually be implemented until SWBPD WG approves WD
17:32:08 <Jeremy> Ralph: key change is move from informal process as the current SKOS community may expect to a more formal process
17:32:22 <Jeremy> Alistair: most people in SKOS community would like SKOS core to be more stable
17:32:53 <Jeremy> Tom: confusion between editors draft and public WDs
17:33:09 <Jeremy> q+ to talk about OWL and RDF experience
17:33:50 <Jeremy> Ralph: WG is free to modify namespace doc between versions of WDs
17:34:13 <Jeremy> but important to align expectations of community with expectations of WG
17:34:45 <Jeremy> Alistair: from meeting with Tom, it would be good to have a W3C process for maintaining vocab
17:35:58 <Jeremy> ralph: as PORT TF asks WG to publish notes, the WG assumes ownership of vocab
17:37:13 <Jeremy> alistair: ownership of SKOS should be open community which anyone can contribute to it
17:38:23 <Ralph> Jeremy: the OWL and RDF test cases had a similar issue with Working Drafts being published but the test case repository being changed in-place
17:39:10 <dlm> is there a way i can do a quick update for oep?  i have another telecon that started 10 minutes ago that i must go to.
17:39:19 <Zakim> -Gavin_McKenzie
17:39:23 <Ralph> ... when the editor's drafts differed from the latest Working Draft, it was often because the test respository had changed
17:39:45 <Jeremy> ack me
17:39:45 <Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to talk about OWL and RDF experience
17:40:07 <Jeremy> alistair: Tom was not happy with the test cases model
17:40:15 <DavidW> ack Ralph
17:40:16 <Zakim> +Gavin_McKenzie
17:44:06 <Jeremy> next TF 3.2 OEP
17:44:27 <Jeremy> Deb and Chris report ...
17:45:02 <Jeremy> update from Natasha's not on April 14
17:45:31 <Jeremy> classes as values is now published note
17:45:54 <aliman> zakim, mute alistair
17:45:54 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should now be muted
17:45:55 <Jeremy> specified values note is ready to go
17:46:04 <Jeremy> n-ary relations is still being revised
17:46:43 <DavidW> DavidW has joined #swbp
17:47:21 <Jeremy> with n-ary relations several requests to pick a pattern, and provide an RDF vocab for the pattern
17:47:35 <Jeremy> then the vocab would need to be at a namespace doc etc etc
17:49:05 <Ralph> Chris: applications that want higher -arity relations would like a way to translate to and from RDF's binary relations
17:49:26 <Ralph> ... a vocabulary accepted by most applications would facilitate this
17:49:53 <Ralph> David: given the current state of the SemWeb, I have no trouble calling this 'best practice' rather than 'research'
17:50:09 <Ralph> Ralph: is the OEP TF in a position to propose such a vocabulary?
17:50:16 <Jeremy> Chris: yes
17:50:17 <dlm> i emailed the short notes i had prepared for summary (from the oep email notes). chris' verbal comments take precedence.  i have to go to the next telecon now.
17:50:25 <Ralph> Chris: yes, we have something nearly ready to put in the document
17:50:49 <Jeremy> David asks Deb if she is happy with this.
17:51:06 <Jeremy> Deb: I don't mind haven't a standard vocab, as long as documented well
17:51:18 <DavidW> q?
17:51:31 <Jeremy> Ralph question of whether this becomes a formal rec is separate
17:52:06 <Jeremy> Deb leaves ... maybe ... Chris goes on
17:52:10 <DavidW> zakim, mute me
17:52:10 <Zakim> David_Wood should now be muted
17:52:43 <Zakim> -DebM
17:52:49 <Ralph> Ralph: I encourage the TF to propose a vocabulary for converting between binary and n-ary relations
17:52:52 <Jeremy> two other editors draft part/whole
17:53:20 <Jeremy> guus wrote note on QCRs a year ago ... but now recovered
17:53:22 <Zakim> -Chris_Welty
17:53:42 <ChrisW> coming back
17:53:45 <Jeremy> (Chris rudely interrupted by telecoms failure)
17:53:46 <DavidW> zakim, unmute me
17:53:46 <Zakim> David_Wood should no longer be muted
17:53:51 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
17:54:32 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/OEP/ OEP TF home (lists all editor's drafts)
17:54:33 <Jeremy> Alan has agreed to take over editing QCRs note once part whole note is WD
17:55:08 <Jeremy> Chris asks Ralph about Gerry Hobbs
17:55:14 <Jeremy> and ISI AC rep
17:55:33 <Jeremy> Ralph is expecting resolution any day soon
17:55:54 <aliman> zakim, unmute alistair
17:55:54 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
17:55:58 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph re-ping ISI AC Rep
17:56:07 <Jeremy> 3.3 Wordnet
17:56:13 <Jeremy> Aldo's action is continued
17:56:17 <Ralph> ACTION Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description
17:56:42 <Jeremy> Alistair has looked at datamodel and met with ISO group on temrinology
17:57:12 <Jeremy> lots of overlap between ISO view, SKOS, and wordnet
17:58:22 <Jeremy> Laurent Raumeri ... (sp?)
17:58:50 <Jeremy> ACTION alistair e-mail group about ISO contact
17:58:58 <aliman> Laurent Romary
17:59:26 <Jeremy> Chris: Aldo has spoken about this community. Aldo attended some meeting with them
18:00:15 <Ralph> ACTION Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype publication request
18:00:29 <Ralph> The document transition was requested on 11 April -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2005AprJun/0013.html
18:00:53 <Jeremy> ralph claims action is done, but the document transition request fell down a crack
18:01:28 <Jeremy> 3.4 XML Schema datatypes
18:01:35 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph get XML Schema Datatype transition request unstuck
18:01:35 <Jeremy> is the agendum for above discussion
18:02:16 <Ralph> Jeremy: I have not yet considered Ashok's review
18:02:26 <aliman> Other TC37 contact: Alan K. Melby
18:02:29 <Ralph> ... polite to respond to him acknowledging the review
18:02:46 <Jeremy> ACTION: jeremy polite reply to ashok setting expectations
18:03:10 <Jeremy> 3.5 Vocabulary management (TomB)
18:03:22 <Jeremy> Alsitair: we had a chat last week
18:04:03 <Jeremy> 3.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ben)
18:04:12 <Ralph> ACTION DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2 namespace elements
18:04:12 <Ralph> ACTION Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases
18:04:15 <Jeremy> ben absent, ralph gives update
18:04:32 <Jeremy> these two actions are still outstanding
18:05:11 <Jeremy> still awaiting XHTML2 LC WD
18:06:38 <Jeremy> q+ to talk about HP response
18:09:17 <Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to talk about HP response
18:09:32 <Ralph> Jeremy: from what I can tell there does not seem to be a lot of enthusiasm in HP for GRDDL
18:10:07 <Ralph> Gavin: (earlier) got expressions of support for GRDDL within Adobe, w.r.t. XHTML1
18:10:18 <Ralph> ... will write this in mail
18:10:31 <Ralph> Jeremy: HP not opposed to GRDDL moving forward but not enthused either
18:11:11 <Jeremy> 3.7 ADTF (Libby)
18:11:18 <Jeremy> Libby not much to report
18:11:29 <Jeremy> e-mail discussion on-going
18:12:33 <Jeremy> chris: if one of the criteria is that it has to be RDF or OWL, didn't we have to change title to avoid question of scope of Semantic Web
18:13:16 <Jeremy> david: we should be defining scope
18:13:18 <Jeremy> of SW
18:14:13 <Jeremy> but this is probably a CG issue not a TF issue
18:14:49 <Jeremy> eric would like TM to be in SW, WG perhaps not so keen
18:15:02 <Ralph> [I think David's "we" referred generally to W3C or the community, not specifically SWBPD]
18:15:08 <Jeremy> in practice dealing mostly with RDF and OWL
18:15:19 <Jeremy> ok
18:15:39 <Jeremy> 3.8 RDFTM (Steve)
18:15:47 <Jeremy> (too soon)
18:16:43 <Jeremy> david: can we link to lots of RDF data
18:16:54 <Jeremy> ralph: let's not go there
18:18:21 <Jeremy> ralph: if there is cool data out there, hopefully it is found from cool application on our page
18:18:23 <ChrisW> q+
18:18:50 <ChrisW> to mentionhttp://swoogle.umbc.edu/
18:18:54 <Jeremy> Libby: Bob de charm is collecting data as david discusses
18:18:57 <ChrisW> http://swoogle.umbc.edu/
18:19:03 <DavidW> ack ChrisW
18:19:05 <libby> http://www.rdfdata.org/
18:19:09 <libby> is bob's stuff
18:19:36 <Jeremy> also ontaria
18:19:40 <Jeremy> (david)
18:20:20 <Jeremy> ontaria currently down
18:20:34 <DavidW> http://www.w3.org/2004/ontaria/
18:21:06 <Jeremy> ontaria cobranded W3c/darpa
18:21:23 <Jeremy> 3.8 RDFTM (Steve)
18:21:37 <Jeremy> pepper's item is complete
18:21:52 <Jeremy> current status was published on March 29
18:22:19 <Jeremy> 3.9 Tutorial Page
18:22:26 <ChrisW> q+ to give ralph more work
18:22:34 <Jeremy> jeff and Ben absent, but write access sorted out now
18:22:37 <DavidW> ack ChrisW
18:22:37 <Zakim> ChrisW, you wanted to give ralph more work
18:23:06 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph add Note category to WG home page
18:23:15 <Jeremy> adjourned
18:23:17 <aliman> zakim, unmute alistair
18:23:17 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
18:23:34 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
18:23:35 <Zakim> -Chris_Welty
18:23:36 <Zakim> -David_Wood
18:23:37 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
18:23:39 <Zakim> -Gavin_McKenzie
18:23:40 <Zakim> -Alistair_Miles
18:23:43 <libby> bye all
18:23:47 <Zakim> -Ralph
18:23:57 <Zakim> -Fabien
18:25:41 <Zakim> -Jeremy
18:25:42 <Zakim> SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended
18:25:44 <Zakim> Attendees were David_Wood, Alistair_Miles, Ralph, Jeremy, [Sophia], Fabien, Elisa_Kendall, Phil_Tetlow, Gavin_McKenzie, Libby_Miller, Chris_Welty, DebM, Evan_Wallace,
18:25:46 <Zakim> ... +44.774.0.aaaa
18:31:03 <Ralph> zakim, bye
18:31:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swbp
18:31:10 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items:
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location [1]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-10-10
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested [2]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-10-23-2
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeremy post personal review to XSCD doc [3]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-20-34
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph re-ping ISI AC Rep [4]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-55-58
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph get XML Schema Datatype transition request unstuck [5]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-01-35
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeremy polite reply to ashok setting expectations [6]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-02-46
18:31:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph add Note category to WG home page [7]
18:31:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-23-06