16:55:43 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 16:55:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc 16:55:49 Meeting: SemWeb BPD 16:56:24 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0018.html 16:58:07 Ralph has changed the topic to: SWBPD 07 April agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0018.html 16:58:18 aldogan has joined #Swbp 16:59:55 DavidW has joined #swbp 16:59:56 SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started 17:00:03 +Ralph 17:02:06 guus has joined #swbp 17:02:08 +DanBri 17:03:53 +Aldo 17:04:08 libby has joined #swbp 17:04:09 JeffP has joined #swbp 17:04:13 +Darren_Govoni 17:04:28 ekw has joined #swbp 17:05:23 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0022.html previous meeting 2005-03-24 17:05:36 +Evan_Wallace 17:05:48 +??P8 17:05:59 Jeff Pan 17:06:05 zakim, ??p8 is Jeff 17:06:05 +Jeff; got it 17:06:23 GaryNg has joined #swbp 17:06:49 i am unable to dial in, unfortunately 17:07:17 understood, Guus 17:07:24 David will chair 17:07:31 +Gary_Ng 17:07:43 In a few moments, once I can dial in myself 17:08:15 hi david 17:08:38 Regrets: Jeremy, Benjamin, Deb, Phil, Marco, Alan, Andreas, Fabien, Guus (will monitor irc) 17:08:47 +[IPcaller] 17:08:49 +??P13 17:08:54 Natasha has joined #swbp 17:09:04 zakim, ??p13 is Natasha 17:09:04 +Natasha; got it 17:09:16 zakim, ipcaller is Guus 17:09:16 +Guus; got it 17:09:54 + +1.703.418.aaaa 17:10:04 zakim, aaaa is Chris 17:10:04 +Chris; got it 17:10:50 dialing in now 17:11:19 +David_Wood 17:11:42 zakim, nominate a scribe 17:11:42 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Natasha 17:12:23 Scribe: Natasha 17:12:54 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0018.html 17:12:57 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0022.html previous meeting 2005-03-24 17:13:21 +??P16 17:13:24 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the March 24 telecon: 17:13:32 seconded 17:13:36 zakim, ??p16 is Alan 17:13:36 +Alan; got it 17:13:54 Accepted 17:14:05 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Boston ftf 4-5 March: 17:14:22 Ralph seconds 17:14:23 Alan has joined #SWBP 17:14:29 Accepted 17:14:47 PROPOSED next telecon 21 April 1700 UTC 17:14:54 Note: NOT 1800 UTC 17:15:06 regrets Alan 17:15:10 regrets Dan 17:15:41 Agenda amendments 17:15:46 WrdNet earlier in the call 17:15:55 SKOS and VM move to later in the call 17:16:10 ACTION: chairs & ralph to organise straw poll on f2f location 17:16:27 continued, assigned to Guus 17:16:42 ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location 17:16:52 Location of f2f 17:17:10 There is also an offer from Stanford to hold f2f 17:17:30 Will include in the strawpoll: Stanford, Vancouver, Galway 17:17:43 ACTION Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an 17:17:43 interested participant has been unable to get a response from his 17:17:43 AC Rep 17:18:08 Ralph was in a process of finding his out, but ISI has a new AC rep, so they may be progress on that issue 17:18:20 Action continued 17:18:23 ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an 17:18:23 interested participant has been unable to get a response from his 17:18:23 AC Rep 17:18:39 Topic: WordNet TF 17:18:51 ChrisW has joined #swbp 17:18:59 ACTION guus to contact aldo re whether he can attend next telecon 17:19:02 completed 17:19:17 Current status of the TF: 17:19:28 Aldo is writing a new version of the note on data model for WN 17:19:55 Princeton plans to add new relationships to WN 2.1, perhaps also change in top levels 17:20:27 (I'd like to review it) 17:20:59 ISLE lexical entries: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0069.html 17:21:42 Aldo: are we in the position to add a liason action with ISLE 17:22:02 (re pronunciation extensions, we have work at http://www.w3.org/Voice/ that we should connect with...) 17:22:06 Guus: time line is very important and estimate of feasibility 17:22:43 Guus: is this something you can resolve in 3-6 months? 17:23:15 Aldo: certainly possible 17:23:20 q+ to ask re http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet-sw-20040713.html 17:24:51 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyb_v7.owl 404s (link from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0066.html) 17:25:08 Guus: suggests to update the TF description to reflect the addition 17:25:17 and we will discuss it at the next telecon 17:25:25 ACTION: Aldo to update the TF description 17:25:28 danbri, you wanted to ask re http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet-sw-20040713.html 17:26:16 DanB: relationship to the document that Brian began to draft last year. Is it obsoleted by Aldo's work? 17:26:20 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet-sw-20040713.html 17:26:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0068.html 17:26:58 -> http://www.w3.org/2004/11/01-swbp#item12 November f2f WNET discussion minutes 17:27:20 all i can find is rdf/owl doc... http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet_datamodel.owl 17:27:49 Aldo: the datamodel is still based on the one Brian suggested 17:27:53 but it has changed a bit 17:28:02 Changes are described in the document 17:28:44 Some of the documentation is in the OWL file and should be moved to the document directly 17:30:23 Guus: It will be good to have another TF telecon discussion on teh datamodel 17:30:27 -Aldo 17:30:38 ah, found the big file: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyn_v7.owl (via browsing directory) 17:30:38 Agenda item 2.1 Proposed resolution httpRange-14 17:30:55 Topic: Proposed resolution httpRange-14 17:31:00 ACTION davidw to draft the http-range-14 message 17:31:02 completed 17:31:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0202.html 17:31:28 q+ to note that I started a document on this topic (drafted as VM but without coordination w/ VM TF members) 17:31:36 David: woudl be interested to know what happened on the TAG side 17:32:10 my sketch http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/httpclass/1 17:32:54 q+ to note that TAG minutes showed Tim as misunderstanding our position (I sent mail) 17:32:58 Ralph advised Dan Connolly that if TAG wanted to devise a forum to discuss the technical issues with us, we will be glad to do that 17:33:21 i agree with david 17:33:24 David: How much energy/time are we willing to spend on this? 17:34:42 danbri, you wanted to note that I started a document on this topic (drafted as VM but without coordination w/ VM TF members) and to note that TAG minutes showed Tim as 17:34:46 ... misunderstanding our position (I sent mail) 17:35:53 q? 17:37:16 DanBri started a document to describe the positions 17:37:18 zakim, wo's talking? 17:37:18 I don't understand your question, guus. 17:37:33 zakim, who is talking? 17:37:43 guus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ralph (82%), Jeff (4%) 17:37:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0012.html 17:39:39 zakim, mute me 17:39:39 David_Wood should now be muted 17:40:22 tbaker has joined #swbp 17:40:49 hi tom 17:40:56 hi dan 17:41:15 +Tom_Baker 17:41:24 Ralph: we need to distinguish ehether our arguments are deployment-oriented (something in our charter) vs architecture-driven arguments 17:41:34 +Tom_Baker.a (was Tom_Baker) 17:43:05 Guus proposes action: Chairs to discuss the httpRange-14 issue at the coordination level 17:43:30 ACTION: Chairs to discuss the httpRange-14 issue at the coordination level 17:44:09 Agenda item 2.2 OMG: ODM review 17:44:20 ACTION Guus to review OWL metamodel 17:44:29 continued, trying to finish this week 17:44:42 ACTION Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary 17:44:44 continued 17:44:55 ACTION Chris to provide input to DAWG based on deployment experience. 17:45:00 completed 17:45:12 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0021.html Chris's summary of his DAWG action 17:45:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0021.html 17:45:31 ACTION deb sort SOURCE issue discussion timing out with DanC how you 17:45:31 like; copy in davidw 17:45:36 done 17:45:55 ACTION jjc to review XML schema LC draft 17:46:11 continued; the draft is coming out shortly 17:46:23 ACTION jeff to review XML schema LC draft 17:46:28 continued; the draft is coming out shortly 17:47:53 Agenda item 3. TF UPDATE 17:48:12 SWBPD FAQ proposal: last time we agreed to do it 17:49:10 Last week we decided that FAQ will be part of the Tutorial work 17:49:40 Topic: OEP TF 17:49:51 ACTION Guus review of part-whole draft 17:49:57 Yes, Benjamin volunteers for FAQ in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0213.html 17:50:28 completed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0017.html 17:50:34 ACTION Bill review of part-whole draft 17:51:25 Regrets+ Brian 17:51:29 completed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0209.html 17:51:48 There was also a review by Natasha: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0219.html 17:52:20 zakim who is here? 17:52:37 q? 17:53:02 Natasha: the current draft doesn't talk about any patterns at the instance level 17:53:29 Alan: there is a set of examples about geography that I wanted to deal with separately 17:53:45 ... have to be careful with expressing qualifiers 17:54:11 Natasha: I just wanted to point out to people that the relationships can be expressed just as a normal property 17:54:23 Alan: welcome additions from Natasha 17:54:41 publication status of OEP Notes 17:54:56 Chris cleaning up some pubrules violations 17:55:13 ... in the specified values note 17:55:17 Ralph: Classes as values is ready to go; sent for transition approval; might be published today 17:55:50 Chris: no further progress on other OEP notes 17:57:04 Evan: semantics of business rules work has potential overlap with ODM 17:57:52 ... there is some coordination contention in OMG about how much consistency is desired between that spec and ODM 17:58:04 ... business rules work does not have a formal semantics 17:58:25 Topic: XML Schema datatypes 17:58:40 ACTION: jeff to coordinate editorial changes, formatting requirements, etc for XML schema dtypes 17:58:42 --done 17:58:59 ACTION: Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype publication request 17:59:01 -Chris 17:59:04 Natasha has left #swbp 17:59:17 -Natasha 17:59:34 Jeff: Vocabulary Management 18:00:15 TomB: DanBri drafted a small note "Some Things that HTTP URIs can name" 18:00:25 ... we wanted to cover things like this in the VM Note 18:01:12 ... intend to schedule some TF telecons in next 2-3 weeks 18:02:09 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/httpclass/1 Some Things That Hashless HTTP URIs Can Name 18:02:26 DanBri: I'd like Task Force members to take a look at what I've started 18:02:46 Guus: can this be merged with the main document? 18:03:08 DanBri: the separate document may be a focal point for our interaction with TAG 18:03:27 TomB: the material might be 2-3 paragraphs in the main document, so it is appropriate to have it separate for now 18:04:00 Topic: RDF in XHTML 18:04:19 ACTION: DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2 namespace elements 18:04:44 DanBri: I had assumed that this action would be triggered by a new XHTML2 Working Draft 18:05:12 ralph: tf had a telecon earlier this week 18:05:19 ...both mark b. and steven p attended 18:05:25 ...update in the public record from them 18:05:36 ... a new URI for an editor's draft (not on the w3.org site) 18:05:49 (http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html btw defines Editor's Drafts; a new page) 18:05:59 ...not clear if we want to work from an editor's draft vs wait 18:06:39 ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases 18:06:47 --continues 18:06:50 ACTION: Tom Baker ask DC colleagues if many use rdf inside html 18:07:02 can i respond to that? 18:07:21 TomB: I got two responses that I summarized to the WG list 18:07:36 ... can get more feedback if necessary 18:07:54 -- action complete 18:07:59 ACTION: BenA set a time for the RDF-in-XHTML telecons 18:08:05 -- done 18:08:16 ACTION: the rdf in html tf to discuss whether GRIDDL needs to work on XHTML2 documents 18:08:25 -- continues 18:08:43 Guus: this seems a general goal of the TF, propose to withdraw 18:08:54 -- action withdrawn 18:09:17 Guus: only action DanBri and action Gavin still outstanding 18:09:39 DanBri: it is important to have a way to extract RDF from RDF/A 18:09:50 ... this should be a part of the TF agenda 18:10:10 Guus: I asked Jeremy to give a talk on the status of this work at WWW2005 18:10:23 (reason for fussing on this is that the qnames-in-attribute values aspect complicates things, as it raises the Q of whether GRDDLs are XSLT 1.0 or 2.0, how to deploy w/ both environments, etc etc.) 18:10:23 ... am worried that there may not be a public WD by then 18:11:15 Ralph: we are putting a lot of pressure on the HTML WG to issue a new public WD 18:11:30 Topic: RDFTM 18:11:43 Guus: constructive comments from Steve Newcomb 18:11:47 Topic: ADTF 18:11:58 [[ 18:11:58 Libby: I've been looking at the notes from Boston f2f 18:11:59 * 18:12:00 only applications and demos with their own [WWW]DOAP descriptions will be included 18:12:00 * 18:12:02 only freely downloadable apps and demos will be included unless they are products of a W3C member company 18:12:04 * 18:12:08 for the time being only RDF, RDFS and OWL applications will be included 18:12:10 ]] 18:12:36 Libby: have we made an official decision on these criteria? 18:12:54 Ralph: I thought the meeting gave the authority to the TF to decide the criteria 18:13:01 Libby: good, we'll send a note out then 18:13:41 Topic: Tutorial Page 18:13:54 Guus: Benjamin and Jeff volunteered to work on this 18:14:44 ... happy to have two people 18:15:21 ... I'd like a simple procedure proposed for people to submit questions 18:15:35 ... per Alan's suggestion in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0097.html 18:15:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0215.html 18:16:03 ACTION: Jeff to talk with Benjamin to propose a process for submission of FAQ questions 18:16:17 Topic: SE TF 18:16:43 Jeff: telecon considered whether automated software engineering experts were needed in the TF 18:16:50 ... consensus of TF was that we do need such expertise 18:17:32 Guus: for an invited expert, we need a good description of a person with the required expertise and an explanation of why this expertise is not available among the W3C Membership 18:18:16 ... main point is that the critical expertise is not present in the WG and justification for why the recommended person works for an organization that is not a W3C Member 18:19:05 Jeff: re status of draft: we're working on Michael and David's comments 18:19:13 q? 18:19:18 ... example section is being restructured 18:19:57 ... we would like more review of the existing examples in the draft 18:20:11 ... Michael suggested that we need an example for section 3.3 18:20:32 ... we would like the WG to supply an example for 3.3 else we will drop that section 18:20:55 ... we hope to have a document for review by 23 April 18:21:32 ... proposed idea section will make the concept of ontology-driven architecture more clear 18:22:13 ... we have a workshop proposal on "Semantic Web Enabled Software Engineering" for ISWC accepted, chaired by Evan 18:22:31 Guus: a report of that workshop would be a useful contribution to this group 18:22:38 Topic: PORT TF 18:23:06 Alistair's PORT TF summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0015.html (i) SKOS core ready to go (ii) Tom has some issues (which he'll summarise) (iii) minor comments re Publishing thes doc. 18:23:33 DanBri: we have 3 documents that we hope to publish at the same time 18:23:39 ... all have been reviewed 18:23:46 ... SKOS Core Guide appears to be ready to go 18:23:59 ... SKOS Core Specifications had some comments from TomB 18:24:25 TomB: my comments were to be precise about the relationship between parts of the specification and the corresponding RDF schema 18:24:39 (re status w.r.t. notion of Editor's Draft, we can now cite http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html to explain what these are) 18:24:51 TomB:... which version is authoritative? 18:25:09 ... when changes are made, how to describe what the status of those changes will be 18:25:29 ... some additional citations needed for people to find explanations of the different document types 18:25:55 ... some more work needs to be done, but these are not issues that should hold up publication 18:26:21 DanBri: 3rd doc is Quick Guide to Publishing a Thesaurus on the Semantic Web 18:26:33 ... some debate about whether to use the word "publish" or "convert" 18:26:48 ... I think the 3 documents are basically ready to go 18:27:54 Guus: we need a proposal on the agenda to approve these for publication 18:28:42 ... I am willing to handle the publication proposal by mail if the TF wishes 18:29:16 TomB: I expect to sit down with Alistair next week and we can review the draft then 18:29:43 Guus: we'll propose to consider publication of the set of 3 documents at the next telecon 18:29:53 ... TF can ask for earlier consideration by mail if you wish 18:30:00 http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html 18:30:10 DanBri: editors should note Style Guide for Internal Editors Drafts 18:31:22 -Alan 18:31:23 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2005AprJun/0012.html Style for Group-internal Drafts (or, "How to avoid confusion with TR page documents") [Ian Jacobs 2005-04-07] 18:31:26 adjourned 18:31:29 -Evan_Wallace 18:31:31 -Gary_Ng 18:31:32 -Jeff 18:31:32 -David_Wood 18:31:33 -Tom_Baker.a 18:31:35 -Ralph 18:31:56 -bristol 18:32:03 -Guus 18:32:40 -Darren_Govoni 18:33:16 SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended 18:33:17 Attendees were Ralph, Aldo, Darren_Govoni, danbri, libby, Evan_Wallace, Jeff, Gary_Ng, [IPcaller], Natasha, Guus, +1.703.418.aaaa, Chris, David_Wood, Alan, Tom_Baker 18:33:35 rrsagent, please make logs world-visible 18:33:45 rrsagent, please draft minutes 18:33:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html Ralph 18:34:05 rrsagent, bye 18:34:05 I see 13 open action items: 18:34:05 ACTION: chairs & ralph to organise straw poll on f2f location [1] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-16-10 18:34:05 ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location [2] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-16-42 18:34:05 ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an [3] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-18-23 18:34:05 ACTION: Aldo to update the TF description [4] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-25-25 18:34:05 ACTION: Chairs to discuss the httpRange-14 issue at the coordination level [5] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-43-30 18:34:05 ACTION: jeff to coordinate editorial changes, formatting requirements, etc for XML schema dtypes [6] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-58-40 18:34:05 ACTION: Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype publication request [7] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T17-58-59 18:34:05 ACTION: DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2 namespace elements [8] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-04-19 18:34:05 ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases [9] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-06-39 18:34:05 ACTION: Tom Baker ask DC colleagues if many use rdf inside html [10] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-06-50 18:34:05 ACTION: BenA set a time for the RDF-in-XHTML telecons [11] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-07-59 18:34:05 ACTION: the rdf in html tf to discuss whether GRIDDL needs to work on XHTML2 documents [12] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-08-16 18:34:05 ACTION: Jeff to talk with Benjamin to propose a process for submission of FAQ questions [13] 18:34:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc#T18-16-03 18:34:17 dgovoni has left #swbp