IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-03-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:41:27 [RRSAgent]
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20:41:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/24-wai-wcag-irc
20:46:39 [snutarelli]
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20:51:57 [LucaMascaro]
LucaMascaro has joined #wai-wcag
20:52:49 [wendy]
agenda+ Update from Face to Face
20:53:05 [wendy]
agenda+ Work on timeline and action items to get this all done
20:53:13 [wendy]
agenda+ Discussion on initial feedback
20:55:57 [snutarelli]
zakim, who's here?
20:55:57 [Zakim]
sorry, snutarelli, I don't know what conference this is
20:55:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LucaMascaro, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
20:56:14 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
20:56:21 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:56:55 [Makoto]
Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
20:57:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Yvette_Hoitink has joined #wai-wcag
20:57:19 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Hi everyone
20:57:27 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.830.aaaa
20:57:28 [LucaMascaro]
Hi Yvette
20:57:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Wendy, I might leave before the end because I'm not feeling too well
20:57:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]
But I do want to hear the report about the f2f
20:58:05 [Zakim]
- +1.408.830.aaaa
20:59:35 [Zakim]
+??P1
21:00:12 [Makoto]
Hi everyone
21:00:32 [ben_]
ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
21:00:44 [wendy]
yvette - ok. hope you feel better.
21:00:59 [Yvette_Hoitink]
thx
21:01:03 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson
21:01:15 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:23 [Becky_Gibson]
Becky_Gibson has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:31 [Zakim]
+??P8
21:01:34 [wendy]
wendy has changed the topic to: if you have not formally rejoined the group, you will be asked to leave this call.
21:02:01 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:02:12 [Zakim]
+Wendy
21:02:17 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
21:02:24 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:02:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, [IBM]
21:02:27 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:34 [wendy]
zakim, Microsoft is Mike
21:02:35 [Zakim]
+Mike; got it
21:02:39 [ben_]
ben_ has left #wai-wcag
21:02:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.707.aabb
21:02:44 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink
21:02:52 [Zakim]
+??P13
21:02:53 [ben_]
ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:58 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
21:02:59 [wendy]
zakim, ??P13 is Ben
21:03:00 [Zakim]
+Ben; got it
21:03:10 [Michael]
Michael has joined #wai-wcag
21:03:23 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:03:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, [IBM], +1.202.707.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper
21:03:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.830.aacc
21:04:01 [Zakim]
+Dave_MacDonald
21:04:11 [Zakim]
- +1.408.830.aacc
21:04:22 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
21:04:23 [Zakim]
+??P17
21:04:27 [Zakim]
+Matt
21:04:31 [wendy]
zakim, ??P17 is Bengt
21:04:31 [Zakim]
+Bengt; got it
21:04:41 [mcmay]
mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
21:04:46 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
21:04:48 [Zakim]
+JasonWhite
21:04:51 [mcmay]
zakim, who's here?
21:04:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, [IBM], +1.202.707.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin,
21:04:55 [Zakim]
... Matt, Tim_Boland, JasonWhite (muted)
21:04:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mcmay, Michael, ben_, Andi, Becky_Gibson, bengt, Yvette_Hoitink, Makoto, LucaMascaro, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
21:05:12 [Zakim]
+??P19
21:05:17 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
21:05:21 [rellero]
zakim, +??P19 is rellero
21:05:21 [Zakim]
sorry, rellero, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19'
21:05:29 [David]
test
21:05:36 [rellero]
zakim, ??P19 is rellero
21:05:36 [Zakim]
+rellero; got it
21:05:43 [rellero]
zakim, mute me
21:05:43 [Zakim]
rellero should now be muted
21:05:45 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:05:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, [IBM], +1.202.707.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin,
21:05:49 [Zakim]
... Matt, Tim_Boland, JasonWhite, rellero (muted)
21:05:50 [Zakim]
+??P21
21:05:53 [wendy]
zakim, IBM is Andi
21:05:53 [Zakim]
+Andi; got it
21:05:57 [wendy]
zakim, ??p21 is Doyle
21:05:57 [Zakim]
+Doyle; got it
21:05:57 [snutarelli]
Zakim, who's here?
21:05:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, +1.202.707.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin,
21:06:03 [Zakim]
... Matt, Tim_Boland, JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle
21:06:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see David, mcmay, Michael, ben_, Andi, Becky_Gibson, bengt, Yvette_Hoitink, Makoto, LucaMascaro, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
21:06:06 [Zakim]
+Luca_Mascaro
21:06:29 [LucaMascaro]
Zakim, i am Luca_Mascaro
21:06:29 [Zakim]
ok, LucaMascaro, I now associate you with Luca_Mascaro
21:07:06 [wendy]
zakim, mute +1.202
21:07:06 [Zakim]
+1.202.707.aabb should now be muted
21:07:14 [wendy]
zakim, unmute +1.202
21:07:14 [Zakim]
+1.202.707.aabb should no longer be muted
21:07:23 [wendy]
zakim, +1.202 is Gregg
21:07:23 [Zakim]
+Gregg; got it
21:07:32 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:07:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, ??P1, Becky_Gibson, ??P8, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, Gregg, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin, Matt,
21:07:35 [Zakim]
... Tim_Boland, JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle, Luca_Mascaro
21:07:39 [wendy]
zakim, drop ??P1
21:07:39 [Zakim]
??P1 is being disconnected
21:07:40 [Zakim]
-??P1
21:07:44 [wendy]
zakim, drop ??p8
21:07:44 [Zakim]
??P8 is being disconnected
21:07:46 [Zakim]
-??P8
21:07:48 [gregg]
gregg has joined #wai-wcag
21:08:14 [wendy]
makoto - apparently, i dropped you. sorry about that. please call back in.
21:08:27 [Zakim]
+??P1
21:08:36 [wendy]
zakim, ??P1 is Makoto
21:08:36 [Zakim]
+Makoto; got it
21:08:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.830.aadd
21:09:31 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, +1.408 is Sebastiano_Nutarelli
21:09:31 [Zakim]
+Sebastiano_Nutarelli; got it
21:10:16 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:10:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, Gregg, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin, Matt, Tim_Boland,
21:10:20 [Zakim]
... JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle, Luca_Mascaro, Makoto, Sebastiano_Nutarelli
21:10:24 [David]
me, test
21:11:00 [wendy]
agenda?
21:11:00 [snutarelli]
Zakim, mute me
21:11:04 [Zakim]
sorry, snutarelli, I do not see a party named 'snutarelli'
21:11:13 [wendy]
scribe: david
21:11:16 [tecks]
tecks has joined #wai-wcag
21:11:18 [snutarelli]
zakim, who's here?
21:11:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, Gregg, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt, John_Slatin, Matt, Tim_Boland,
21:11:25 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, snutarelli is Sebastiano_Nutarelli
21:11:28 [Zakim]
... JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle, Luca_Mascaro, Makoto, Sebastiano_Nutarelli
21:11:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tecks, gregg, David, mcmay, Michael, ben_, Andi, Becky_Gibson, bengt, Yvette_Hoitink, Makoto, LucaMascaro, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
21:11:33 [Zakim]
sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I do not recognize a party named 'snutarelli'
21:11:47 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, Sebastiano_Nutarelli is snutarelli
21:11:47 [Zakim]
+snutarelli; got it
21:12:04 [snutarelli]
Hi Yvette, many thanks..
21:12:19 [David]
gv: no tech call this week so, straight f2f, there was also coord group, that we will talk a bit about
21:12:22 [Yvette_Hoitink]
sebastiano: you can now mute and unmute yourself
21:12:32 [snutarelli]
I know
21:12:42 [snutarelli]
zakim, mute me
21:12:42 [Zakim]
snutarelli should now be muted
21:12:50 [David]
GV: tim, yvette, jason, matt Bengt, were not at F2F
21:12:53 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:13:04 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Makoto (9%)
21:13:06 [DoyleB]
cannot hear a thing total static
21:13:07 [wendy]
zakim, mute Makoto
21:13:07 [Zakim]
Makoto should now be muted
21:13:15 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:13:26 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregg (60%), Yvette_Hoitink (9%), Loretta_Guarino_Reid (9%), Dave_MacDonald (23%), John_Slatin (9%), Bengt (79%),
21:13:29 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute me
21:13:30 [Zakim]
... Tim_Boland (15%), JasonWhite (14%)
21:13:31 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:13:32 [wendy]
zakim, mute Bengt
21:13:32 [Zakim]
Bengt should now be muted
21:13:38 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:13:38 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:13:46 [wendy]
zakim, unmute Makoto
21:13:46 [Zakim]
Makoto should no longer be muted
21:14:24 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute me
21:14:24 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:14:49 [snutarelli]
zakim, who's here?
21:14:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, Gregg, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt (muted), John_Slatin, Matt,
21:14:53 [Zakim]
... Tim_Boland, JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle, Luca_Mascaro, Makoto, snutarelli (muted)
21:14:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DoyleB, gregg, David, mcmay, Michael, ben_, Andi, Becky_Gibson, bengt, Yvette_Hoitink, Makoto, LucaMascaro, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
21:15:19 [David]
gv: presume eeryone read outout of f2f, we'll summarize questions raist at cg meeting then those f the group, will help explain how we cot towhere we got to..over a full dayof deliberations, intependent groups that converged on it.
21:15:31 [David]
outout=output
21:16:03 [wendy]
Regrets: Roberto Scano, Roberto Castaldo, WATANABE Takayuki
21:16:19 [wendy]
zakim, take up item 1
21:16:19 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Update from Face to Face" taken up [from wendy]
21:17:14 [ben_]
F2F results summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0642
21:18:25 [David]
js: at coordinating grou0p, comments in response to greggs (issues) post, protocall and formats feel that we may be talkingabout not a w3c note that we will not set a tech baseline. Al Gilman, nervous about decision, concern that because no baseline will jeopardize adoption and make other groups rush in to fill percieved void, js pointed out that JIS and EU werein attendence and were in agreement
21:18:42 [wendy]
q+ to say, "verification of claims seems to be core of the issue"
21:19:06 [David]
js: they were concerned that we are delegating our guidlines as a note, this way
21:19:44 [wendy]
q-
21:19:45 [David]
wc: they are worried that without a default that [eople will not know when they are done and may notbe able to conform
21:20:15 [David]
gv: for clarity, there were a lot of other things we discussed but if we didn't reach concensus we would not post them...
21:21:00 [David]
gv: one thing on table was, 1)??...2) offer guidance 3) say nothing about baseline
21:21:15 [David]
what is # 1
21:21:39 [wendy]
1) include baseline in guidelines (normative)
21:21:49 [wendy]
2) offer informative guidance
21:21:56 [wendy]
(in techniques)
21:21:56 [David]
gv: we knew that if you do set a baseline we put time stam on document and lots of "until user agents"
21:22:46 [David]
gv: if we don't then others will, ie countries, we thought that might be ok because different countries may have different needs,,, otherwise bar could be too high or too low
21:23:08 [David]
#1) was baseline in techniques doc
21:23:09 [wendy]
ack lor
21:23:15 [Yvette_Hoitink]
q?
21:24:05 [David]
lg: baseline funny, because usually in wai we go to the lowest denominator, this is not good
21:24:28 [wendy]
s/not good/a celing rather than a floor
21:24:34 [David]
tb: 1) what real world examples motivated 2) could a mechanism be difined to update the guidelines
21:26:01 [David]
gv: real world examples include scripting, if you require scripts then alternates necessary every country would have to have AT that supports scripts...
21:27:03 [David]
tb: hard to understand how in TR, would pass the grade...need indication of sufficient quality, quantity and wide spread adoption, how could this be acheived?
21:28:30 [David]
wc: what gv sent was unanimous agreed but there are other clarifications on table, ie, generally if a decision maker cannot make assumptions about what tech user has trned on, then if they use a tech that may be turned off they would be requeired to make a fall back, if they ar assured then no falolback necessary
21:30:20 [David]
in cr, we could show the w3c, and html, css sites where when css is off site is usable, we can also show where enterprise is reasonably sure they have the proper AT to use application, ie, if IBM sells a widget to a specific client that requieres it they would be sure, so we think we willl not have oroblem getting through cr
21:31:06 [David]
gv:if there is lots of push back in CR then we would have failed but we think we can address the key issues, we just didn't have stuff on the table that could be agreed on
21:31:24 [David]
tb: thanks thats ok, and fine for now
21:32:02 [David]
gv: js sent me some text to provide context, to explain why we came to our decision and how we can proceed successfully,
21:32:13 [David]
tb: these questions will be asked by others
21:33:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Yvette_Hoitink has joined #wai-wcag
21:33:18 [David]
gv: toward end of call we will see if we have consensus on other things, we need people to know we haven't tossed the dog poop over the fence
21:33:23 [wendy]
ack ja
21:33:37 [David]
jw: what happened to structure quesiton
21:33:40 [Zakim]
+??P2
21:34:13 [David]
gv: didn't post because we have priciples down and will try to lay it out clearly
21:34:26 [wendy]
zakim, ??P2 is Neil_Soiffer
21:34:26 [Zakim]
+Neil_Soiffer; got it
21:34:51 [wendy]
Regrets+ Alex Li
21:35:26 [David]
gv: no explicit baseline, we will go through GL looking for unnecessary "implicit" baseline clean those up. look at it for tightening
21:36:57 [David]
gv: Document "guide to guidelines" contains general techniques, talks about background and reasons , techniques, advisory stuff, links to tech docs , not clear whether each technique qould be its own document
21:37:45 [David]
gv: Guidelines, guide, to technology specifics, (two other entities, check list which is a list of SC)
21:39:25 [David]
annotated schecklist not required for rec, mayn or not finished before rec, but not necessary, aplication , topic based doc, ie. forms, etc...not required for rec but makes docs more usable, but inmortant, needs to be an organization other than by SC, there were t4ests tagged against techniquqes
21:40:12 [David]
nothing in the tech docs that is required unless its the onoly way to do something but we wouldn't say that
21:41:14 [David]
js: point out that end of greggs message, there is a long list of action items to be completed and by date...one of them, is to conduct user analysis to determine best structure to the guide document.
21:41:35 [David]
js: rename general techniques to guide doc
21:42:27 [David]
jw: that's ok
21:43:09 [David]
js: action item, will try to write an explanation of the relationship of structions,
21:43:12 [David]
gv: accepted
21:43:23 [mcmay]
q+
21:43:26 [wendy]
action: john summarize proposed resolutions from structure discussion
21:43:27 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:43:27 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:43:33 [David]
wendy can you make action item above
21:43:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
q+ to ask "why abandon UAAG as baseline?"
21:43:48 [wendy]
david - yep. done.
21:44:51 [David]
gv: turn to wendy for the fit of this stuff, go to CR in JUNE!!!!!,,,
21:45:41 [David]
gv: wendy will give project plan
21:46:07 [Yvette_Hoitink]
q?
21:46:27 [David]
wc: matt & yvette on q
21:47:02 [David]
mm: lets do timeline first
21:47:42 [wendy]
zakim, take up item 2
21:47:42 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Work on timeline and action items to get this all done" taken up [from wendy]
21:47:42 [David]
yh: will discuss later
21:50:07 [David]
wc: thx for those who helped, learning ms project, nothing for list yet, but the main things are, based on andi's rec....if we want a rec this year, the last day is dec 21, so working back, june 1 last call, to get there, resolve all issues, that are necessary for last call...2 hours every thursday, close 4 components per call, bugzilla,
21:50:50 [David]
that would be 5 weeks, if we do per week then 7 weeks, 2 per week would be 10 weeks
21:51:58 [David]
all issues and summaries need to be resolved, esp baseline which could hold us up...look at each task, how they could interact with each other
21:52:39 [David]
gv: components, are areas where we have bugs, each guidelin is a comonent
21:53:28 [David]
wc: other components include.... presentation and structure, etc....(too fast for me)
21:54:01 [David]
gv: 4 guidelines per phone call too much I think, where are all the techniuqes in this formula
21:55:16 [David]
wc: i'm looking at thursday call, tech scedule separate, doesn't include guide so this is scary, when we lookat what has to be closed before last call, much higher level of completeness for GL
21:55:29 [David]
wc: not all issues have tobe closed before LC
21:55:41 [LucaMascaro]
LucaMascaro has joined #wai-wcag
21:56:24 [David]
gv: if WCAG were down, and guide was down and solid techs would go fast, they are notes...GL and Guide ar really important...
21:57:07 [David]
gv: GL are too high level for some, so we need guide to the guidelines
21:57:19 [David]
wc: everyone is volunteer
21:57:33 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:57:49 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Makoto (89%), Gregg (14%), Wendy (52%)
21:58:17 [David]
wc: a lot of these tasks are full days tasks we ae already cutting into 90 minutes a week, and mailing list, etc...this is before they do any actuall "work" on the gl
21:58:25 [gregg]
zakim, mute makoto
21:58:25 [Zakim]
Makoto should now be muted
21:58:34 [David]
wc: no way to continue as we are
21:59:33 [wendy]
ack andi
21:59:40 [David]
asw: what do you mean that all tech have to go through thurs call
21:59:52 [David]
gv: Thursday is only authority
22:01:11 [David]
gv: thurs can adopt or turn down
22:01:33 [David]
gv: im will give a yeah or ney above us
22:01:39 [David]
im =TIm
22:02:04 [David]
asw: how can we issue tech document
22:02:38 [David]
gv: we create task force, they will bring their recs to us
22:03:38 [David]
asw: for test cases also
22:03:42 [David]
gv: yes
22:03:56 [David]
yh: how does that work in practice?
22:05:19 [David]
gv: we could just adopt, or go through every item, I think tech group will bring us docs, we will be reading in advance, and it will go quickly, unless there is a bomb
22:05:59 [David]
gv: we may find some issues and tech will go back and we will go back and forth and eventually it will pass I think
22:06:31 [David]
wc: I think that we did a lot of planning for this f2f and planning helps make things efficient
22:06:36 [David]
and meaningful
22:06:58 [David]
it will only work if people are serious and read in advance,
22:07:43 [David]
wc: if we are prepared we can get yeh, ney on thursdays
22:08:14 [David]
gv: unless I'm overided by group we will not walk every item on thurs calls, most will happen on list
22:09:20 [David]
gv: our group should read it as we get final drafts from tech force
22:10:00 [wendy]
q?
22:10:12 [David]
gv: those who want to walk techs should be on wed calls
22:10:21 [wendy]
ack mich
22:10:21 [Zakim]
Michael, you wanted to say I agree to get to Rec emphasis on GL important, but I continue to maintain if we haven't developed a broad range of techniques we won't forsee problems
22:10:25 [Zakim]
... in the GL (bottom-up)
22:11:20 [David]
mc: agress with wendy , GL paramount, tech, secondary, echo concern, better write techs for other guidelines javascript etc....
22:12:09 [David]
this will help us on GL, moving baseline out, will mae it easier,,, but want to walk some techs in guidlelines before we finish guidelines
22:12:34 [David]
gv: GL paramount, but without techs we won't have confidence in GL
22:14:05 [David]
gv: JS says the guide is even more critical than GL, twhen GL goes to rec, the Guide is what peple will look for, the guide should be stable at that point, same effect as what a report has to a law, it will be the thing people turn to in dispute
22:14:22 [David]
wc: clarify, final vote and last call different
22:14:45 [David]
js: last call, canditate, proposed rec...
22:14:55 [David]
gv: roposed frozen
22:15:23 [David]
wc: needs to be just about compete at last call or in danger of being sent back
22:15:43 [David]
roposed=proposed
22:15:44 [wendy]
q?
22:16:52 [David]
gv: assumption of June july as vacation, also teachers have double schedules in april, march, which frees up in June
22:17:07 [David]
gv: we're pressed coming and going
22:17:09 [wendy]
s/june july/july august
22:17:15 [wendy]
ack tim
22:17:38 [David]
tb: wondering about motivation, for timeline, worried that sacrificing quality
22:17:44 [David]
gv: good point
22:18:05 [David]
tb: css went back to last call high quality paramount, rather than timeline
22:19:13 [David]
gv: this is about how hard to work, there is no social graduation, if not ready it won't go out, wendy is just saying this is important, to prepare for meeings beforehand
22:19:41 [David]
zakim take a nap
22:21:43 [David]
wc: the reason I gave deadline is web cluster in europe will be going to press with our recs in sept regardless of when we are done, a lot of other orgs feel the same way and will do their own thin, if we go to 2006 it will have negative influence on credibility, and on motivation
22:22:26 [David]
gv: wendy did not just decide this, this is from WAI, and those above us
22:22:34 [David]
gv: don't shoot the messenger
22:23:31 [David]
js: all that said, i[m convinced we are closer than it seems,
22:23:58 [David]
js: can get guidelines done, with hard work, between calls
22:24:27 [David]
js: list can be used between calls , and calls can be to make sure we got it right
22:24:37 [mcmay]
q-
22:25:34 [David]
js: ask everyone to help out as much as we can
22:25:46 [snutarelli]
zakim, who's here?
22:25:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, Andi, Gregg, Yvette_Hoitink, Ben, Michael_Cooper, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt (muted), John_Slatin, Matt, Tim_Boland,
22:25:49 [Zakim]
... JasonWhite, rellero (muted), Doyle, Luca_Mascaro, Makoto (muted), snutarelli (muted), Neil_Soiffer (muted)
22:25:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LucaMascaro, Yvette_Hoitink, DoyleB, gregg, David, mcmay, Michael, ben_, Andi, Becky_Gibson, bengt, Makoto, snutarelli, RRSAgent, Zakim, rellero, wendy
22:26:38 [David]
gv: begin a practise, don't spring things at meeting, if we are prepared...come with propossals
22:26:57 [David]
gv: review agree, comment and send back
22:27:25 [wendy]
agenda?
22:27:50 [David]
wc: appreciate those who help
22:29:09 [David]
gv: reviewed front to back, recommend yo read the doc front to back, its pretty good, with some fixes it good, has come a long way
22:29:13 [wendy]
zakim, close item 2
22:29:13 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
22:29:14 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:29:15 [Zakim]
1. Update from Face to Face [from wendy]
22:29:18 [wendy]
zakim, take up item 3
22:29:18 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Discussion on initial feedback" taken up [from wendy]
22:30:06 [David]
yh: why did you abandon UAAG? doublin decided
22:30:25 [David]
js: analysis, doesn't resolve key questions
22:31:19 [David]
js: UAAG is a good tool, but not a baseline
22:31:23 [David]
yh: ok
22:32:19 [David]
yh: implicit/explicit
22:32:38 [David]
yh: authors and us, UAAG good for us
22:32:59 [David]
GV: UAAG is a good tool, but not a baseline
22:33:26 [David]
asw: do we need to resolve longer calls
22:33:51 [David]
yh: that's late, but I can do it
22:34:38 [David]
doyle: can't do it, its during my lunch hour now, might fudge it in
22:34:58 [David]
gv: let's go for 2 hours but THEY HAVE TO BE EFFICIENT!!!!!
22:35:15 [David]
gv: 4-6 EST
22:35:32 [David]
js: we'll revisit it in a few weeks
22:36:16 [David]
gv: if you take an assignment, and can't do it, let us know rightaway, so we can find another way to do it.
22:36:36 [David]
gv: it will be "just in time" approach
22:37:15 [David]
gv: 1) review 2) agree, 3) comment and 4) send back
22:38:09 [David]
gv: in bugzilla,resolve them, send the easy ones to list first, the hard ones at bottom, and they can be sent back and te easy stuff can pass
22:38:37 [David]
gv: thx to f2f ers
22:39:13 [David]
gv: th wendy, and peole who read the list before call
22:40:00 [David]
gv: it's doable, let's get down to it
22:41:17 [Zakim]
-Becky_Gibson
22:41:19 [Zakim]
-Andi
22:41:19 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
22:41:20 [Zakim]
-Mike
22:41:20 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
22:41:21 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:41:23 [Zakim]
-Matt
22:41:24 [Zakim]
-Gregg
22:41:25 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
22:41:26 [Zakim]
-Bengt
22:41:28 [Zakim]
-Ben
22:41:28 [rellero]
bye
22:41:30 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
22:41:30 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Yvette_Hoitink has left #wai-wcag
22:41:32 [Zakim]
-Doyle
22:41:34 [Zakim]
-Neil_Soiffer
22:41:36 [Zakim]
-Wendy
22:41:38 [Zakim]
-Luca_Mascaro
22:41:40 [Zakim]
-Dave_MacDonald
22:41:42 [Zakim]
-Makoto
22:41:44 [Zakim]
-snutarelli
22:42:13 [Zakim]
-rellero
22:42:45 [Zakim]
-JasonWhite
22:42:47 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:42:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.408.830.aaaa, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Wendy, [IBM], Mike, +1.202.707.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Michael_Cooper, Ben, +1.408.830.aacc,
22:42:53 [Zakim]
... Dave_MacDonald, John_Slatin, Matt, Bengt, Tim_Boland, JasonWhite, rellero, Andi, Doyle, Luca_Mascaro, Gregg, Makoto, +1.408.830.aadd, snutarelli, Neil_Soiffer
22:43:46 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make log world
22:43:52 [wendy]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:43:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/03/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:44:04 [wendy]
david - thank you very much for minuting
22:44:22 [David]
cool
22:47:38 [wendy]
Meeting: WCAG WG weekly telecon
22:48:29 [wendy]
Chair: Gregg
22:49:44 [wendy]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:49:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/03/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:54:09 [Andi]
Andi has left #wai-wcag
23:33:09 [mcmay]
mcmay has left #wai-wcag