14:33:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:33:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc
14:33:51 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:33:51 <Zakim> sorry, kendall, I don't know what conference this is
14:33:57 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:33:57 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:34:03 <Zakim> +DanC
14:34:04 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:34:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC (muted)
14:34:05 <DanC> agenda?
14:34:19 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
14:34:19 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:34:38 <kendall> AndyS: do you have a minute for me after the telcon? I'm confused about when we get "group pattern" blocks...?
14:34:41 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC
14:35:04 <DanC> agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0304.html
14:35:12 <DanC> agenda + SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update
14:35:12 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
14:35:14 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:35:20 <DanC> agenda + test updates from punctuationSyntax
14:35:22 <JanneS> i'm figuring our the code for the bridge..
14:35:28 <DanC> agenda + Test suite maintenance
14:35:36 <DanC> agenda + Sorting issue/requirement?
14:35:39 <DanC> Zakim, passcode?
14:35:39 <Zakim> the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), DanC
14:35:46 <DanC> agenda + Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?
14:35:50 <Zakim> +EricP
14:35:59 <DanC> take up agendum 1
14:36:06 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
14:36:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kevin
14:36:15 <JanneS> hmm, skype doesn't pass the tones for those numbers correctly through it appears..
14:36:22 <Zakim> +Holbrook|Gibbins
14:36:26 <Zakim> +??P4
14:36:35 <JanneS> Zakim, P4 is JanneS
14:36:35 <Zakim> sorry, JanneS, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
14:36:37 <SteveH> Zakim, HolbrookGibbins is SteveH
14:36:37 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:36:46 <DanC> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:36:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS
14:36:51 <DanC> Regrets: DaveB
14:37:37 <DanC>  Minutes of 2005-03-08 Telecon for review
14:37:37 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0287.html
14:37:45 <DanC> RESOLVED to approve
14:37:51 <AndyS> Regrets: Hiroyuki
14:38:19 <DanC> next meeting: 2005-03-22 JanneS to scribe
14:38:37 <DanC> ACTION Bijan: to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement
14:38:37 <DanC> ACTION EricP: to review WSDL text proposal
14:38:37 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption
14:38:51 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH.
14:38:51 <DanC> ACTION DaveB: to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer
14:39:00 <DanC> ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or  others)
14:39:26 <DanC> PROPOSED: to approve
14:39:26 <DanC>   http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf5-bos.html
14:39:26 <DanC>   $Revision: 1.23 $ of $Date: 2005/03/15 15:42:03 $
14:39:26 <DanC>   with the @@s removed.
14:39:45 <DanC> so RESOLVED
14:39:55 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:39:55 <Zakim> agendum 2. "SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:35 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ $Revision: 1.23 $ of $Date: 2005/03/15 15:42:03 $
14:42:38 <DanC> DONE: ACTION KendallC: to incorporate service description discussion notes in protocol spec
14:42:48 <KevinW> kendall reports protocol draft being updated, including changes for wsdl2. change log at bottom.
14:42:51 <DanC> ACTION KendallC: discuss warnings in the protocol spec.
14:42:51 <DanC> ACTION KendallC: to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG
14:42:57 <DanC> ACTION KendallC: to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol  draft
14:43:26 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:43:37 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-43-26
14:43:39 <Zakim> +JosD
14:44:43 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:44:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:53 <KevinW> kendall expects to have another protocol spec draft ready by end of week.
14:49:33 <ericP> referencing and including the relevent specs: http://www.w3.org/2005/02/25-SPARQL-Prototocol/#InpParm
14:50:09 <DanC> . ACTION SteveH: to to propose tests for str() and =~
14:50:21 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:50:21 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:50:42 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-001
14:50:58 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-003
14:51:34 <DanC> action DONE
14:51:49 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: SteveH to update the tests to reflect the new syntax
14:52:04 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-a
14:52:04 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-b
14:52:04 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-c
14:52:04 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-d
14:53:53 <DanC> PROPOSED: to accept tests example-a,b,c,d
14:54:04 <DanC> so RESOLVED
14:54:07 <AndyS> rdfs:seeAlso http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprBuiltins/q-str-1.rq
14:54:43 <DanC> onto http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e
14:55:15 <kendall> zakim, unmute  me
14:55:15 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:56:09 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:56:09 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
14:56:56 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 3
14:56:56 <Zakim> agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]
14:57:12 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-001
14:57:12 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-002
14:57:12 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-003
14:57:12 <SteveH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-004
14:57:54 <DanC> RESOLVED to approve #dawg-triple-pattern-001,2, 3, 4
14:57:58 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:57:58 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
14:58:19 <KevinW> ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e
14:58:25 <DanC> ACTION EricP: to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES
14:58:35 <DanC> ACTION SteveH: to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES
14:58:43 <DanC> ACTION DaveB: to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES
14:58:56 <DanC> ACTION JosD: Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES
14:59:17 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES
15:00:16 <DanC> ACTION Jos: propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname
15:00:24 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:00:24 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Sorting issue/requirement?" taken up [from DanC]
15:01:03 <kendall> one of our clients really wants some kind of sort, fwiw
15:01:15 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS, JosD
15:02:59 <kendall> fwiw, RAL, the rdf relational algebra which is the only one around, afaik, has sort and doesn't seem too worried about it at the algebra level
15:03:37 <kendall> http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~hera/papers/WISE2002/ral.pdf
15:08:19 <KevinW> dan asks if sorting should be a design requirement with a use case, an objective or a feature.
15:09:01 <JanneS> (my pdf viewer cannot find word 'sort' in the referred RAL doc)
15:09:17 <DanC> PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them"
15:09:37 <SteveH> If we have ORDER and LIMIT we may as well have OFFSET
15:09:55 <SteveH> [which I was told I couldn't have because we didn't have sorting]
15:10:00 <DanC> PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" a a design objective
15:10:11 <DanC> PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" as a design objective
15:10:13 <AndyS> Steve: ack
15:11:41 <DanC> PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results" as a design objective
15:12:22 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
15:12:55 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: propose a SORT design
15:13:27 <DanC> . ACTION KendallC: add sort objective [OK, Kendall?]
15:13:48 <DanC> ACTION KendallC: add sort objective
15:14:06 <DanC> ACTION DanC: add SORT issue
15:14:58 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:14:58 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?" taken up [from DanC]
15:19:28 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:19:51 <DanC> ACTION EricP: propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol
15:19:58 <kendall> damn cellphone
15:20:00 <AndyS> Kendall - does the WS-policy action help here ?
15:20:13 <kendall> it's relevant, yes
15:20:28 <DanC> getting ready to adjourn anyway, kendall... or did you want to talk to somebody after?
15:20:42 <kendall> eh, i'll catch andy another time.
15:20:55 <DanC> ADJOURN
15:21:03 <Zakim> -JosD
15:21:04 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:21:06 <Zakim> -HowardK
15:21:07 <Zakim> -DanC
15:21:08 <Zakim> -JanneS
15:21:11 <Zakim> -Kevin
15:21:14 <KevinW> KevinW has left #DAWG
15:25:15 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isBound
15:28:01 <AndyS> { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age < 18 }
15:28:25 <AndyS> { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER !bound(?age) || ?age < 18 }
15:28:37 <AndyS> { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }
15:28:50 <AndyS> OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }
15:29:05 <AndyS> OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 
15:30:48 <ericP> OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER               ?age > 18 
15:32:12 <SteveH> I would still like constraints on optional vars to be illegal...
15:32:29 <SteveH> There is an example of it in the testcases
15:32:37 <AndyS> If possible, better to put inside OPTIONAL
15:32:46 <SteveH> All the options for handling it suck in some way
15:32:52 <SteveH> inside OPTIONAL is fine
15:33:26 <AndyS> Better to go back to the reason we have bound to avoid an unsaid
15:34:56 <SteveH> im confused.
15:35:09 <SteveH> its just user error, it doesnt mean anything in particular
15:35:23 <SteveH> well, its the same as the query with the optional keyword removed
15:40:02 <Zakim> -EricP
15:40:05 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:40:06 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:40:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, AndyS, EricP, Holbrook|Gibbins, SteveH, JanneS, JosD
15:40:40 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave us
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> I see 20 open action items:
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Bijan to to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement [1]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to to review WSDL text proposal [2]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-1
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption [3]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-2
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH. [4]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DaveB to to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer [5]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51-1
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or  others) [6]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-39-00
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to discuss warnings in the protocol spec. [7]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG [8]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51-1
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol  draft [9]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-57
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e [10]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-19
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES [11]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-25
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveH to to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES [12]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-35
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DaveB to to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES [13]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-43
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JosD to Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES [14]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-56
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES [15]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-59-17
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jos to propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname [16]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-00-16
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to propose a SORT design [17]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-12-55
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to add sort objective [18]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-13-48
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to add SORT issue [19]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-14-06
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol [20]
15:40:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-19-51