IRC log of dawg on 2005-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:33:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc
14:33:51 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
14:33:51 [Zakim]
sorry, kendall, I don't know what conference this is
14:33:57 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
14:33:57 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:34:03 [Zakim]
+DanC
14:34:04 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:34:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC (muted)
14:34:05 [DanC]
agenda?
14:34:19 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
14:34:19 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:34:38 [kendall]
AndyS: do you have a minute for me after the telcon? I'm confused about when we get "group pattern" blocks...?
14:34:41 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC
14:35:04 [DanC]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0304.html
14:35:12 [DanC]
agenda + SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update
14:35:12 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
14:35:14 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:35:20 [DanC]
agenda + test updates from punctuationSyntax
14:35:22 [JanneS]
i'm figuring our the code for the bridge..
14:35:28 [DanC]
agenda + Test suite maintenance
14:35:36 [DanC]
agenda + Sorting issue/requirement?
14:35:39 [DanC]
Zakim, passcode?
14:35:39 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), DanC
14:35:46 [DanC]
agenda + Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?
14:35:50 [Zakim]
+EricP
14:35:59 [DanC]
take up agendum 1
14:36:06 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
14:36:06 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kevin
14:36:15 [JanneS]
hmm, skype doesn't pass the tones for those numbers correctly through it appears..
14:36:22 [Zakim]
+Holbrook|Gibbins
14:36:26 [Zakim]
+??P4
14:36:35 [JanneS]
Zakim, P4 is JanneS
14:36:35 [Zakim]
sorry, JanneS, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
14:36:37 [SteveH]
Zakim, HolbrookGibbins is SteveH
14:36:37 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:36:46 [DanC]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:36:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS
14:36:51 [DanC]
Regrets: DaveB
14:37:37 [DanC]
Minutes of 2005-03-08 Telecon for review
14:37:37 [DanC]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0287.html
14:37:45 [DanC]
RESOLVED to approve
14:37:51 [AndyS]
Regrets: Hiroyuki
14:38:19 [DanC]
next meeting: 2005-03-22 JanneS to scribe
14:38:37 [DanC]
ACTION Bijan: to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement
14:38:37 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: to review WSDL text proposal
14:38:37 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption
14:38:51 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH.
14:38:51 [DanC]
ACTION DaveB: to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer
14:39:00 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others)
14:39:26 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to approve
14:39:26 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf5-bos.html
14:39:26 [DanC]
$Revision: 1.48 $ of $Date: 2005/03/07 22:37:39 $
14:39:26 [DanC]
with the @@s removed.
14:39:45 [DanC]
so RESOLVED
14:39:55 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:39:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:35 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ $Revision: 1.19 $ of $Date: 2005/03/10 20:36:26 $
14:42:38 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION KendallC: to incorporate service description discussion notes in protocol spec
14:42:48 [KevinW]
kendall reports protocol draft being updated, including changes for wsdl2. change log at bottom.
14:42:51 [DanC]
ACTION KendallC: discuss warnings in the protocol spec.
14:42:51 [DanC]
ACTION KendallC: to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG
14:42:57 [DanC]
ACTION KendallC: to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol draft
14:43:26 [JosD]
JosD has joined #dawg
14:43:37 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-43-26
14:43:39 [Zakim]
+JosD
14:44:43 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:44:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:53 [KevinW]
kendall expects to have another protocol spec draft ready by end of week.
14:49:33 [ericP]
referencing and including the relevent specs: http://www.w3.org/2005/02/25-SPARQL-Prototocol/#InpParm
14:50:09 [DanC]
. ACTION SteveH: to to propose tests for str() and =~
14:50:21 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
14:50:21 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:50:42 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-001
14:50:58 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-003
14:51:34 [DanC]
action DONE
14:51:49 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION: SteveH to update the tests to reflect the new syntax
14:52:04 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-a
14:52:04 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-b
14:52:04 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-c
14:52:04 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-d
14:53:53 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to accept tests example-a,b,c,d
14:54:04 [DanC]
so RESOLVED
14:54:07 [AndyS]
rdfs:seeAlso http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprBuiltins/q-str-1.rq
14:54:43 [DanC]
onto http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e
14:55:15 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
14:55:15 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:56:09 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:56:09 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
14:56:56 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 3
14:56:56 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]
14:57:12 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-001
14:57:12 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-002
14:57:12 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-003
14:57:12 [SteveH]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-004
14:57:54 [DanC]
RESOLVED to approve #dawg-triple-pattern-001,2, 3, 4
14:57:58 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:57:58 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
14:58:19 [KevinW]
ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e
14:58:25 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES
14:58:35 [DanC]
ACTION SteveH: to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES
14:58:43 [DanC]
ACTION DaveB: to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES
14:58:56 [DanC]
ACTION JosD: Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES
14:59:17 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES
15:00:16 [DanC]
ACTION Jos: propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname
15:00:24 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:00:24 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Sorting issue/requirement?" taken up [from DanC]
15:01:03 [kendall]
one of our clients really wants some kind of sort, fwiw
15:01:15 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS, JosD
15:02:59 [kendall]
fwiw, RAL, the rdf relational algebra which is the only one around, afaik, has sort and doesn't seem too worried about it at the algebra level
15:03:37 [kendall]
http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~hera/papers/WISE2002/ral.pdf
15:08:19 [KevinW]
dan asks if sorting should be a design requirement with a use case, an objective or a feature.
15:09:01 [JanneS]
(my pdf viewer cannot find word 'sort' in the referred RAL doc)
15:09:17 [DanC]
PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them"
15:09:37 [SteveH]
If we have ORDER and LIMIT we may as well have OFFSET
15:09:55 [SteveH]
[which I was told I couldn't have because we didn't have sorting]
15:10:00 [DanC]
PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" a a design objective
15:10:11 [DanC]
PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" as a design objective
15:10:13 [AndyS]
Steve: ack
15:11:41 [DanC]
PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results" as a design objective
15:12:22 [DanC]
so RESOLVED.
15:12:55 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: propose a SORT design
15:13:27 [DanC]
. ACTION KendallC: add sort objective [OK, Kendall?]
15:13:48 [DanC]
ACTION KendallC: add sort objective
15:14:06 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: add SORT issue
15:14:58 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:14:58 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?" taken up [from DanC]
15:19:28 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
15:19:51 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol
15:19:58 [kendall]
damn cellphone
15:20:00 [AndyS]
Kendall - does the WS-policy action help here ?
15:20:13 [kendall]
it's relevant, yes
15:20:28 [DanC]
getting ready to adjourn anyway, kendall... or did you want to talk to somebody after?
15:20:42 [kendall]
eh, i'll catch andy another time.
15:20:55 [DanC]
ADJOURN
15:21:03 [Zakim]
-JosD
15:21:04 [Zakim]
-SteveH
15:21:06 [Zakim]
-HowardK
15:21:07 [Zakim]
-DanC
15:21:08 [Zakim]
-JanneS
15:21:11 [Zakim]
-Kevin
15:21:14 [KevinW]
KevinW has left #DAWG
15:25:15 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isBound
15:28:01 [AndyS]
{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age < 18 }
15:28:25 [AndyS]
{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER !bound(?age) || ?age < 18 }
15:28:37 [AndyS]
{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }
15:28:50 [AndyS]
OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }
15:29:05 [AndyS]
OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18
15:30:48 [ericP]
OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER ?age > 18
15:32:12 [SteveH]
I would still like constraints on optional vars to be illegal...
15:32:29 [SteveH]
There is an example of it in the testcases
15:32:37 [AndyS]
If possible, better to put inside OPTIONAL
15:32:46 [SteveH]
All the options for handling it suck in some way
15:32:52 [SteveH]
inside OPTIONAL is fine
15:33:26 [AndyS]
Better to go back to the reason we have bound to avoid an unsaid
15:34:56 [SteveH]
im confused.
15:35:09 [SteveH]
its just user error, it doesnt mean anything in particular
15:35:23 [SteveH]
well, its the same as the query with the optional keyword removed
15:40:02 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:40:05 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:40:06 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:40:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, AndyS, EricP, Holbrook|Gibbins, SteveH, JanneS, JosD
15:40:40 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please leave us
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
I see 20 open action items:
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bijan to to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement [1]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to to review WSDL text proposal [2]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-1
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption [3]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-2
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH. [4]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DaveB to to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer [5]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51-1
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others) [6]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-39-00
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to discuss warnings in the protocol spec. [7]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG [8]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51-1
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol draft [9]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-57
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e [10]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-19
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES [11]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-25
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SteveH to to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES [12]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-35
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DaveB to to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES [13]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-43
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JosD to Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES [14]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-56
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES [15]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-59-17
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jos to propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname [16]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-00-16
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to propose a SORT design [17]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-12-55
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to add sort objective [18]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-13-48
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanC to add SORT issue [19]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-14-06
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol [20]
15:40:40 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-19-51