14:59:47 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 14:59:47 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/09-wai-wcag-irc 15:00:00 RRSAgent, make log world 15:00:00 David has joined #wai-wcag 15:00:19 Michael has joined #wai-wcag 15:00:28 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0575.html 15:00:31 Chair: Michael 15:01:02 zakim, this will be WCAG 15:01:02 ok, wendy, I see WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM already started 15:01:07 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:07 On the phone I see John_Slatin, ??P7, ??P9, [IPcaller] 15:01:12 test 15:01:19 zakim, ??P9 is Ben 15:01:19 +Ben; got it 15:01:26 +Wendy 15:01:33 zakim, [IPcaller] is Chris 15:01:33 +Chris; got it 15:01:40 ken has joined #wai-wcag 15:01:43 zakim, ??P7 is David 15:01:43 +David; got it 15:01:53 +Tim_Boland 15:02:18 +Ken_Kipnes 15:02:45 +Becky_Gibson 15:03:14 type, /me message 15:03:49 +Don_Evans 15:03:57 Tim has joined #wai-wcag 15:04:33 +[Microsoft] 15:04:46 zakim, [Microsoft] 15:04:46 I don't understand '[Microsoft]', wendy 15:04:54 +Michael_Cooper 15:04:57 zakim, [Microsoft] is Jenae 15:04:57 +Jenae; got it 15:05:04 Becky_Gibson has joined #wai-wcag 15:15:12 scribe: wendy 15:15:19 DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag 15:15:20 jenae summarizes mon-wednesday 15:15:42 ja: we met mon and tues. wed there were 330 folks. 15:15:49 DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag 15:15:54 ja: we had a few folks who don't usually call in joined on monday. 15:16:10 ja: the highlight of the day was steve bratt joining us in the afternoon to talk about getting through rec track. 15:16:32 ja: he wasn't able to give us concrete steps, but suggested going to last call sooner than later. 15:16:42 ja: we talked about what "2 implementations" means for us. 15:16:50 ja: he talked about test cases and that can help us get through CR. 15:17:07 ja: next steps: probably another WD, then last call, then CR (test cases), PR, and REc 15:17:23 ja: Tuesday we met with PF and UA WGs about making javascript accessible. exciting demo. 15:17:29 ja: wednesday there were several topics. 15:17:37 ja: at lunch we talked about test cases. 15:17:53 ja: the whole group into talbes of 8 and found out that about 40% of specs have test suties. 15:18:07 ja: all the groups reported back. lots of people in the same place. pushback that there aren't enough resources. 15:18:17 ja: people don't understand why we need them and what makes a good test case. 15:18:26 ja: other highlight - the WAI site redesign presentation by Shawn Henry. 15:18:36 ja: good stats on the current usability of the site and also on the new design. 15:18:51 ja: thought it would be helpful if we ran our html test cases against the redeisn to ensure it will be accessible. 15:19:40 js: on wednesday, got my attn: versioning at the beginning of the day (thought provoking discussion. diff points of view. shelf-life of different specs. planning for obsolesences) 15:19:50 js: thinking about that as an integral part of the process, not that it means failure. 15:20:13 js: several presentations about multimodal applications - speech-activated with text-to-speech out that had interesting applications and implications for us. 15:20:37 tb: on friday - al, wendy, and michael presented to request that specification consider accessibility. 15:21:02 tb: believe that there is a possible way forward for specGL to have an annex or appendix that lists additional considerations. 15:21:21 tb: help get accessibility into specGL as a best practice. 15:22:29 dmd: on mon and tues, a bit slow start to getting started. we revisted some issues that we thought we had resolved. e.g., do we ask the main group about doing a 1.1 or 1.5 instead of a 2.0. 15:23:00 dmd: made us revisit what is working and what is not. 15:23:40 dmd: mc thought about moving the principles up as an overarching principles to frame all of the guidelines (atag, uaag, wcag, xag). 15:23:45 dmd: we met with UAWG on thursday at lunch. 15:23:55 dmd: we talked with them about this. got a maybe. 15:24:05 dmd: it's a proposal taht we may want to discuss w/the main group. 15:24:15 mc: I've been asked to send it to the list before tomorrow' mtg. 15:24:35 bc: while you were doing that, wac and i met with richard ishida about i18n. 15:24:50 bc: while ago had shared techs dtd. 15:25:01 bc: believe their work provides us with a model to fit our needs for techniques. 15:25:34 mc: mon focused on requirements - what are we doing. 15:25:43 mc: supposed to be an hour, but took the day. 15:25:51 mc: others have identified issues that came up from that discussion. 15:26:15 mc: clear that we need to solidfy the requirements. stop the target from moving. 15:26:47 mc: need to be braver about saying, "an issue has been dealt with and is closed." 15:27:07 mc: also braver that consensus does not have to mean unanymity. can find ways to move forward. 15:27:16 q+ 15:27:33 mc: on tuesday, we met with other groups, but a major goal was to create a project plan. 15:27:49 mc: we worked on the outline of a plan and will work on some more. 15:28:20 mc: the idea is that we will have a clear list of tasks to accomplihs, timeline for each task, try to break them into 1 or 2 hour chunks to decrease the daunting factor to get people plugged in. 15:28:30 mc: once we agree on the timeline we need to hold ourselves to it. 15:28:57 mc: have a rough outline will complete in the next few weeks. 15:29:23 js: strong consensus of those present that making a decision about baseline and form of checklists are "blocker issues" that are preventing us from moving forward. 15:29:36 js: the outcome of those will have impact on deliverables. 15:30:40 ack wendy 15:30:49 scribe: Michael 15:30:57 wac: relation of CSS and HTML techniques 15:31:20 e.g., a CSS test may depend on an HTML test, e.g., structure in HTML -> CSS presentation 15:31:37 action to create proposals, and Jenae will create tests 15:31:52 look at testable assertions 15:32:10 some questions from first day made it clear that we need very good documentation of our decisions 15:32:24 when a repeat question comes up, we just point to the decision and rationale 15:32:48 more of an internal document for now but could become an FAQ or WCAG 1.0 to 2.0 transition material 15:33:21 issues with WCAG 2.0 are important points, but hopefully we can provide clarity within this work 15:33:54 this review helpful for minutes 15:34:00 action: everyone send trip report to Wendy 15:34:22 js: met with UA group while they met with SVG to review UA responses to SVG draft 15:34:37 SVG group creating examples, planning to have an accessibility chapter 15:34:58 request from Peter Korn instead that they make all the examples demonstrate accessibility 15:35:06 accessibility chapter then focuses on more complex, subtle things 15:35:25 they seemed receptive 15:35:41 -Chris 15:35:54 wac: met with Dean Jackson and Chris Lilly (SVG) 15:36:07 accessibility techniques for SVG note 15:36:22 also met with ERT group Friday morning to discuss test suites and EARL 15:36:34 we want them to do test suites, but their main focus is EARL 15:36:51 discussion of what we can provide so they can create test suites 15:37:01 changes in WCAG 2 that might affect EARL 15:37:34 js: had an informal conversation thursday a.m. with jim allan and jon gunderson from UAWG. 15:37:46 scribe: wendy 15:38:00 js: had questions about how they describe conditional content. 15:38:32 js: uawg hadn't meant it to be exclusive,that should get title with other info. but that's not clear from way written. 15:38:53 fyi: david, /me comments are not logged. 15:39:14 js: discussed creating a joing working group note that could help clarify. 15:39:30 js: another way to help get interoperability between guideliens, w/out going through the rec track. 15:39:37 js: so, a lot of coordination with other groups. 15:39:48 tb: there were 3 issues in coordinating with WCAG (via QA). 15:40:03 tb: at the close of the meeting on friday, wac is going to look at qa responses. 15:40:46 tb: qa wants wcag to identify deprecated features by providing mapping between 1.0 and 2.0. 15:42:46 action: jenae and wendy review and respond to qa responses to specgl comments (by the end of march) 15:43:12 js: lunch on wednesday was assigned seating to meet new people and discuss test suites. 15:43:35 js: didn't talk a lot about that, but did discuss machine tests versus human tests. no one else had thought about human testability. 15:43:49 js: all of their stuff is narrowly tech specs. everything is algorithmically testable. 15:44:16 js: we had a good discussion about what quality alt text might sound like. tbl was in the discussion. 15:44:48 dmd: thursday during the day we mapped 1.1 to uawg. 15:45:03 js: in relation to thinking about baseline issue and if we adopt uaag 1.0 what does it say about a certain technique. 15:47:33 zakim, who's here? 15:47:33 On the phone I see John_Slatin, David, Ben, Wendy, Tim_Boland, Ken_Kipnes, Becky_Gibson, Don_Evans, Jenae, Michael_Cooper 15:47:35 On IRC I see DonFEvans, Becky_Gibson, Tim, ken, Michael, David, RRSAgent, ChrisR, Zakim, wendy, ben 15:49:23 wac: many aciton items about requirements documents. when get those done and get back to discussion? 15:49:55 js: i am presenting on wednesday. 15:50:20 js: could use it as an opportunity to try out the persona notion 15:52:07 wac: what action items need to be completed before the CSUN F2F? 15:52:21 wac: seems like planning and requirements document-related action items. 15:54:07 js: do w have test files that have been reviewed for all of guideline 1.1 15:54:31 mc: believe we're in good shape 15:54:40 js: some revision work that needs to happen with guidelien 1.1. 15:54:59 js: other things that techs group needs to focus on to prep for public WD? 15:55:09 mc: there are open action items on all docs, particularly css and html. 15:55:13 mc: don't think we can at this point. 15:55:33 mc: particularly need scripting updates, has gone througha couple rounds with no changes. partly b/c not sure what to do until resolve baseline. 15:55:49 mc: i have many action items that probably won't get done until end of march. 15:55:54 js: could those be delegated? 15:56:01 mc: except editorial, yes. 15:56:19 js: also at plenary discussed modifying the technique submission form to make it easier to use to harvest techs from people. 15:56:59 js: cna send somethingt o bc today or otmorrow. 15:57:35 bg: i can spend time on css or something else. don't have a lot of time, b/c traveling. 16:03:39 zakim, who's on the phone? 16:03:39 On the phone I see John_Slatin, David, Ben, Wendy, Tim_Boland, Ken_Kipnes, Becky_Gibson, Don_Evans, Jenae, Michael_Cooper 16:13:02 brb 16:22:29 -Tim_Boland 16:22:30 -Michael_Cooper 16:22:34 -Ken_Kipnes 16:22:35 -Wendy 16:22:37 -Becky_Gibson 16:22:39 -Ben 16:22:40 -Jenae 16:24:24 DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag 16:24:35 DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag 16:28:17 RRSAGent, draft minutes 16:28:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/03/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy 16:28:30 Tim has left #wai-wcag 16:46:37 -John_Slatin 16:46:39 -David 16:46:48 -Don_Evans 16:46:49 WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended 16:46:51 Attendees were John_Slatin, Ben, Wendy, Chris, David, Tim_Boland, Ken_Kipnes, Becky_Gibson, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, Jenae 18:12:37 Zakim has left #wai-wcag 21:53:39 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 21:53:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/09-wai-wcag-irc 21:53:43 RRSAgent, make log world 21:53:47 RRSAgent, draft minutes 21:53:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/03/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy 22:15:19 ben has left #wai-wcag 22:35:13 RRSAgent, bye 22:35:13 I see no action items