17:56:41 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:56:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc 17:56:48 DavidW has joined #swbp 17:56:51 Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG 17:57:37 libby has joined #swbp 17:57:38 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0127.html 17:58:03 Previous: 2004-02-10 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0054.html 17:58:49 Zakim has joined #swbp 17:59:39 Regrets: Carroll, Nguyen, Brickley, Garshol 17:59:46 Chair: Wood 18:00:10 Guus is expected to join at 1830 UTC 18:00:41 pepper has joined #swbp 18:01:25 tbaker has joined #swbp 18:01:58 zakim, who's on the call? 18:02:00 On the phone I see David_Wood, ??P1, Libby_Miller, Elisa_Kendall, Ralph 18:02:11 +Andreas_Harth (was ??P1) 18:02:30 +??P11 18:03:06 +??P13 18:03:15 +Alistair_Miles (was ??P13) 18:03:25 zakim, ??p11 is Jeff_Pan 18:03:25 +Jeff_Pan; got it 18:03:29 +Steve_Pepper 18:04:18 JeffP has joined #swbp 18:04:45 aliman has joined #swbp 18:05:14 ChrisW has joined #swbp 18:05:42 aldogan has joined #Swbp 18:05:55 +[IBM] 18:06:08 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me 18:06:08 +ChrisW; got it 18:06:37 Thanks, Alistair! 18:06:55 +??P17 18:07:42 zakim, ??p17 is MikeU 18:07:42 +MikeU; got it 18:08:25 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Feb 10 telecon: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0054.html 18:08:30 +Gavin_McKenzie 18:08:31 so RESOLVED 18:08:48 zakim, pick a scribe 18:08:48 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jeff_Pan 18:09:06 PROPOSED next telecon March 10 18:09:11 so RESOLVED 18:09:38 Scribe: Libby 18:09:48 http://www.w3.org/2004/12/allgroupoverview.html 18:10:08 agenda item - TP 18:10:40 MIkeU has joined #swbp 18:10:41 now officially too late to register - but not impossible perhaps if you ask ralph very nicely 18:12:02 ACTION davidw/guus decide on status of f2f observers - allow them? 18:13:07 Jeff: I'd like to register late too if possible 18:13:29 --2.1 OMG: ODM review 18:13:31 ACTION davidw/guus: decide on status of f2f observers - allow them? 18:13:43 ACTION: davidw/guus decide on status of f2f observers - allow them? 18:14:08 reviewing Guus to review OWL metamodel - wait for guus and revisit 18:14:20 --2.2: DAWG: UNSAID and SOUCE issues 18:14:30 UNSAID and SOUCE issues 18:14:32 ACTION: Guus to review OWL metamodel 18:14:32 ACTION: Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary 18:14:33 +??P19 18:14:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0158.html 18:14:40 -- See Dan Connoly;'s messge: 18:14:40 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0158.html 18:14:46 action Guus pending 18:14:55 zakim, ??p19 is Deb 18:14:55 +Deb; got it 18:15:03 +??P20 18:15:09 davidw: any comments on source in sparql? 18:15:10 Natasha has joined #swbp 18:15:24 chris has an action: Chris to provide input to DAWG based on deployment experience. 18:15:42 ACTION: Chris to provide input to DAWG based on deployment experience. 18:15:49 CHrisW's action continued 18:16:33 chrisW will try to get it done bt TP - can talk to DAWG people there too perhaps 18:16:58 davidw: the feeling is the sourceissue is resolved but without our input - we shoudl comment by the f2f 18:17:25 dlm has joined #swbp 18:17:26 ralph: the hope was this group might have people who could comment on it wrt deployment issues 18:17:43 davidw: will speak w daNc about it 18:18:09 chrisW: do we know when we're meeting with dawg at the TP? 18:18:28 danc? do you know? 18:18:44 DanC, are you aware of any plans for DAWG and SWBPD to meet jointly next week? 18:18:54 ...deb would be a good person to have there then, needs sheduling 18:19:29 davidw: meeting may not have been requested, now rather late 18:20:09 ralph: the meetings do not coincide, but might still be able to meet with some of them 18:20:24 davidw: observers form dawg perhaps? 18:20:44 ralph: danc is planning on observing swbp for a bit of time 18:21:05 chrisw: needs scheduling in advance wrt the 'source' q 18:21:26 +[IPcaller] 18:21:35 ralph: deb send email to danc requesting a time? 18:22:01 ...call or f2f?...discussion.... 18:22:34 davidw: interesting q for us 18:22:43 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0158.html 18:22:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0158.html 18:22:50 <-- danc's message 18:23:09 [scribe missed a bit] 18:23:22 kendal req to observe + ? 18:23:46 Ralph: of the observer requests as of a week ago, the only DAWG participants I see are DanC and Kendall Clark 18:24:15 ACTION: deb sort it out with DanC how you like; copy in davidw 18:24:35 s/ it /SOURCE issue discussion/ 18:24:40 -- 18:24:41 3. TF UPDATE 18:24:49 ACTION: Ralph make "List of WG documents" more visible 18:24:51 done 18:25:14 pepper requests TM TF move to now 18:25:26 --3.8 RDFTM (Steve) 18:25:43 RDFTM survey: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/RDFTM/survey 18:25:59 pepper: 1st draft on interoperabilitioes probosals is now in the w3c site; officially complet draft; requestin wg to do something official with it - ready for feedback 18:26:31 +Tom_Baker 18:26:33 davidw: ralph happy withg document marked as w3c editors' draft? 18:26:36 +Tom_Baker.a (was Tom_Baker) 18:26:37 -[IPcaller] 18:26:39 ralph is happy 18:27:23 ...issue that in tab has w3c working draft because it uses the stylesheets, but probably unavoidable at the moment 18:27:34 pepper: what next? 18:27:45 q? 18:28:21 ralph: we solicit reviewers from the wg not in the tf to look at it 18:28:23 sorry my hand is down 18:29:03 natasha voluneers to review 18:29:38 chrisw: weird formatting in explorer 18:29:45 Guus has joined #swbp 18:30:30 chrisw: huge document...could do part of it. will do, specifying which parts 18:31:03 +Guus_Schreiber 18:31:16 chrisw: can't review by f2f 18:31:25 david: volunteeers to review 18:31:49 ACTION: natasha, davidw review the draft before the f2f and post to the list 18:32:07 pepper will be in boston thurs/fri 18:32:44 pepper more than happy to discuss things on the list - currently no responses 18:32:51 Regrets+ Govoni 18:32:53 -MikeU 18:33:04 --3.1 PORT (Alistair) 18:33:20 both the topic map editors drafts use styles from unibo 18:33:28 ACTION: Al to run pubrules checker on SKOS Core Guide ; Ralph will help. 18:33:36 davidw: congrats to Al on public wd 18:33:37 +Evan_Wallace 18:34:01 Al: how is it maintained when the doc moves to TR page? 18:34:04 done (by Ralph) 18:35:06 +[IPcaller] 18:35:30 alod, is that you? 18:36:09 aldo? 18:36:15 ralph: editors work it over for next version, then to wg for approval. update editrs' draft, in a telecon agree to publish the next version. Much the same as before but quicker 18:37:42 ...the official wd is the one on the tr page, not any other versions 18:37:45 +Phil_Tetlow 18:37:48 yes I'm here through skype out, hia ll 18:37:57 ACTION: Ralph to link SKOS Core Guide from home page more prominently. 18:38:04 (is that continued ralph?) 18:38:17 CONTINUED 18:38:17 Done 18:38:51 zakim, ipcaller is Aldo 18:38:51 +Aldo; got it 18:39:17 zakim, who is here? 18:39:17 On the phone I see David_Wood, Andreas_Harth, Libby_Miller, Elisa_Kendall, Ralph, Jeff_Pan, Alistair_Miles, Steve_Pepper, ChrisW, Gavin_McKenzie (muted), Deb, ??P20, Tom_Baker.a 18:39:20 ... (muted), Guus_Schreiber, Evan_Wallace, Aldo, Phil_Tetlow 18:39:21 On IRC I see Guus, dlm, Natasha, aldogan, ChrisW, aliman, JeffP, tbaker, pepper, Zakim, libby-scribe, DavidW, RRSAgent, aharth, DanC, Ralph 18:39:51 zakim, ??P20 is Natasha 18:39:51 +Natasha; got it 18:39:54 that's my first time, thanks Guus (but I've to check if you can hear me...) 18:40:12 ralph: lots of references to a non-published working draft 18:40:37 ...reconsider request to publish the guide by itself, wait for the other 18:41:02 I'm not speaking, maybe brain waves 18:41:14 ...can;t publish core guide till after the TP; suggests rescrinding core guide till the spec is ready. It can;t be done till after the TP anyway 18:41:40 Aldo, you said something when Guus announced you - but it was unintelligable 18:42:12 al: maybe the spec should not go to WD ar all; supposed to be a human-readable version of the rdf schema - so if this changes a lot, the spec will be behind the real world version 18:42:22 q+ to say that it is incumbent on the WG to declare snapshots for review 18:42:48 ack Ralph 18:42:48 Ralph, you wanted to say that it is incumbent on the WG to declare snapshots for review 18:42:49 al happy to second ralph's proposal; was expecting spec to be very quick on the tail of the guide 18:42:49 q+ 18:43:37 ralph: wg owes a snapshot to reviewers, to see if going in a useful direction, with caveats as well that it will evolve 18:43:57 next pause, I'll try again 18:44:46 ...is the spec is changing in ways crucial to reviewers...we should say which parts are fluid. 18:44:49 ack Guus 18:44:57 -Gavin_McKenzie 18:45:13 -Steve_Pepper 18:45:36 guus: even if the spec is just documentation - still useful to publish as one piece [with the something] - to explain what it's about 18:45:50 ...supports ralph's motion because useful to publish it as one set 18:46:10 al: so to summarise: publish spec+guide with caveat that this is a snapshot? 18:46:14 ralph: yes 18:46:21 davidw: agree 18:46:46 PhilT has joined #swbp 18:47:44 guus proposes to delay request to publish the guide (request has not yet been made) 18:49:32 davidw: how much can al do before the f2f? 18:50:07 al: waiting for reviews of maintenance of spec draft; so probably not ready with spec for f2f 18:50:10 q+ to ask if my review is the bottleneck 18:50:24 ack tbaker 18:50:24 tbaker, you wanted to ask if my review is the bottleneck 18:50:35 q? 18:50:40 al: no, but it'd be good :) 18:51:00 --3.1 OEP (Deb/Chris) 18:51:40 ekw has joined #swbp 18:51:48 chrisw: at f2f planning on proposing that the 2 wds (classes as values/value partition) go to notes. think ready to go, only minor changes made 18:52:07 -Alistair_Miles 18:52:16 [scribe missed soem, sorry] 18:52:51 i volunteer review of part-whole draft 18:52:56 Simple part-whole relations in OWL Ontologies 18:52:56 http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rector/swbp/simple-part-whole/simple-part-whole-relations-v0-2.html 18:52:57 chrisw: oep page: simple part/whole relations document - at f2f shoudl be at a point to get reviewers 18:52:58 -> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~rector/swbp/simple-part-whole/simple-part-whole-relations-v0-2.html Simple part-whole relations in OWL Ontologies 18:53:16 (linked from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/ ) 18:53:42 chrisw: OEP 4pom thursday at f2f 18:53:47 ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready 18:53:48 continues 18:54:02 --3.3 WordNet (Aldo) 18:54:22 aldo can you hear us? 18:54:27 ...aldo can;t speak, moving on... 18:54:38 --3.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremy) 18:55:17 jeff: feedback from [something] wg; jeremy has responded to that; nothing from the dawg yet. jeff will work on it for f2f meeting 18:56:52 --3.5 Vocabulary management (TomB) 18:57:41 tbaker: for various reasons vm is behind schedule; however PORT has contributed lots of stuff which cvan go in the note. proposes an oral presntation at the f2f 18:58:17 ACTION tbaker do a presentation on VM at the f2f 18:58:23 ACTION: tbaker do a presentation on VM at the f2f 18:58:37 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Feb/0025.html RDF-in-XHTML TF minutes from 2005-02-23 18:58:42 ralph to stand in for html tf now 18:58:53 --3.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ben) 18:59:27 ralph - reports back from telecon yesterday. 18:59:57 ...think the html wg is waiting for rdf-a to be incorprated in xhtml but nothing formal about that 18:59:58 -Natasha 19:00:57 q+ 19:01:03 ...rdfa is tf's still prefereed route for syntactic embedding on rdf in xhtml documents; however also recognises that xhtml 2 will take a while to be deplioyed so suggests another solution for non-xhtml2 doc types 19:02:01 ...taking up grddl proposal - at the moment exists as a coordination group note. the TF is of the opinion that it shoudl work on the grddl spec and bring it to the wg - and proposes that the wg take up GRDDL as a wg working draft 19:02:11 I've changed mike, when you're done, I'll try again (now switched off) 19:02:16 ...not enough people at the telecon to formally descide that 19:02:45 ...tf would like also to make sxome tech changes if this goes to wg wd 19:03:24 ... q whether go recommendation track rather than note...not enough to decide at the moment. but will summarise reasons for suggesting that 19:03:36 ...also did some planning for the f2f 19:03:37 ack Guus 19:04:48 guus: as the swbp wg, we should focus on publishing advice: 2 routes - how to mark up documents as grddl would be very useful; could publish as a note but somewhat different status 19:05:05 ack Ralph 19:05:05 Ralph, you wanted to respond to Guus 19:05:12 ...possible to publish as note and then move to rec. is hestant to do rec work - goes beyond charter 19:06:44 ralph: TF feels that the working group responds to entire q of rdf in web documents not just xhtml2 documents. various communities say they aren;t ready to go to xhtml2 or interested in a solution for html4 documents for example and the only solution come up with that meets tech constraints is grddl 19:07:42 ralph: at the f2f, would like formal feeback, preferably before f2f. also meet with html group morning wednesday 19:07:56 ...cannot easily be changed now 19:08:04 pepper has left #swbp 19:08:20 ...hope to hear from them on rdfa at least 19:08:45 ...get something on the record form them 19:09:20 ...hope to get consensus in the TF as to whether to prpose note or rec for grddl then too 19:09:42 --3.7 ADTF 19:09:51 THAT WAS AWESOME 19:09:55 Libby: I've been busy 19:10:01 I though I was in star wars 19:10:01 ... Felix has fixed broken links 19:10:09 ACTION: Fabian noticed broken links - Libby will check. 19:10:16 done 19:11:45 scribe not catching this 19:12:20 Aldo is listing the three links given in the agenda for WORDNET TF 19:12:49 Aldo: we have another document -- a WordNet Data Model 19:13:13 ... we had a telecon yesterday, invited some collaborators to attend 19:13:23 ... ISLE lexical group 19:14:02 ... am writing minutes of the telecon 19:14:46 ... multilingual extension under consideration 19:15:12 ... intend to update the data model note over the next month 19:15:46 ... a fully marked-up data model exists 19:16:45 ... discussion of meaning of synsets 19:17:48 ... also uploaded a first version of OntoWordNet 19:17:54 -Tom_Baker.a 19:18:11 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0066.html [WNET],[OEP] OntoWordNet. A new large OWL ontology 19:18:50 ... considering the possibility of going opensource and permit others to add to the ontology 19:18:55 ... 2 decisions for the WG: 19:19:05 ... 1. do we want to have a liaison with the ISLE group? 19:19:21 ... 2. does it make sense for W3C to support an opensource formal lexicon? 19:19:38 ... with feeds from independent groups world-wide 19:19:43 q+ 19:19:51 ack Guus 19:20:04 guus: goals for the f2f wrt wordnet? 19:20:41 Aldo: I would like discussion of these two questions 19:21:15 davidw: are you close to producing a document? 19:21:18 Aldo: the first document will be a description of the data model 19:21:35 ... maybe by mid-March 19:21:50 Aldo: regrets for f2f 19:22:03 --3.10 SE TF 19:22:28 philT: we now have an editor draft, and we're looking forward to lively debate on that at f2f 19:22:59 ...not yet online, jeff can put online 19:23:19 I'll try to attend through skype again, though 19:23:20 ACTION: jeff put online and send around link 19:23:25 ?? the attachement link in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0109.html is not the most current version? 19:23:45 sorry maybe I misunderstood 19:23:59 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/att-0109/ODA_and_SWSE__Editors_Draft__ver0.7.htm Ontology Driven Architectures and Potential Uses of the Semantic Web in Software Engineering 19:24:09 jcarroll has agreed to formally review and feeback at the f2f 19:24:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0137.html 19:24:51 109 is not the most current version 19:25:07 philt: the actual main content that needs review hasn;t changed though 19:25:15 ...in the last few versions 19:25:21 s^109^the attachment in msg 0109^ 19:25:44 ... daniel obero is now listed as a member of the tf 19:26:07 davidw: where do you want to gte with this document at the f2f? 19:26:50 philt: to move beyond editors draft; to get consensus on main body of document asap for publishing as a note 19:27:12 guus is creating a reading list for the f2f 19:27:33 philT is requesting reviewers for the doucment. have jeremey, need another 19:27:48 ...tumbleweed rolls past ... 19:28:11 ralph intends to try and read it but can;t commit to being a reviewer in this sense 19:28:27 ACTION: davidw read SE document 19:28:48 philT would also like danbri to read it, will ask informally 19:28:57 ralph do you want an action to read it? 19:29:06 --AOB: no 19:29:06 -ChrisW 19:29:09 -Phil_Tetlow 19:29:10 yes, I'll take an action, Libby 19:29:10 (when will the f2f reading list be ready?) 19:29:15 -Deb 19:29:17 -David_Wood 19:29:17 -Andreas_Harth 19:29:19 -Elisa_Kendall 19:29:20 -Jeff_Pan 19:29:24 np. I'll send around the minutes 19:29:30 -Libby_Miller 19:29:42 -Aldo 19:31:21 -Evan_Wallace 19:31:28 -Ralph 19:31:38 zakim, drop guus 19:31:38 Guus_Schreiber is being disconnected 19:31:39 SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended 19:31:41 Attendees were David_Wood, Libby_Miller, Elisa_Kendall, Ralph, Andreas_Harth, Alistair_Miles, Jeff_Pan, Steve_Pepper, ChrisW, MikeU, Gavin_McKenzie, Deb, [IPcaller], Tom_Baker, 19:31:43 ... Guus_Schreiber, Evan_Wallace, Phil_Tetlow, Aldo, Natasha 19:32:00 zakim, bye 19:32:00 Zakim has left #swbp 21:08:43 rrsagent, please make logs world 21:08:46 rrsagent, bye 21:08:46 I see 14 open action items: 21:08:46 ACTION: davidw/guus decide on status of f2f observers - allow them? [1] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-13-43 21:08:46 ACTION: Guus to review OWL metamodel [2] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-14-32 21:08:46 ACTION: Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary [3] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-14-32-1 21:08:46 ACTION: Chris to provide input to DAWG based on deployment experience. [4] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-15-42 21:08:46 ACTION: deb sort it out with DanC how you like; copy in davidw [5] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-24-15 21:08:46 ACTION: Ralph make "List of WG documents" more visible [6] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-24-49 21:08:46 ACTION: natasha, davidw review the draft before the f2f and post to the list [7] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-31-49 21:08:46 ACTION: Al to run pubrules checker on SKOS Core Guide ; Ralph will help. [8] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-33-28 21:08:46 ACTION: Ralph to link SKOS Core Guide from home page more prominently. [9] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-37-57 21:08:46 ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready [10] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-53-47 21:08:46 ACTION: tbaker do a presentation on VM at the f2f [11] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T18-58-23 21:08:46 ACTION: Fabian noticed broken links - Libby will check. [12] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T19-10-09 21:08:46 ACTION: jeff put online and send around link [13] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T19-23-20 21:08:46 ACTION: davidw read SE document [14] 21:08:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/24-swbp-irc#T19-28-27