18 Feb 2005



Doyle_Saylor, Wayne, Shawn, Alan_(muted), Bingham, Sylvie_Duchateau, Chuck_Letourneau, Charmane, Henk
Shadi, Carol, Libby




<Andrew> me offers regrets for this meeting, leaving myself logged in to IRC to check the discussion tomorrow

<Wayne> wayne is p2

WAB cluster

OK. I'll be travelling on Friday

<shawn> ACTION, schedule WAB cluster update to EOWG (probably at Tech Plen)

<shawn> ACTION: shawn schedule WAB cluster update to EOWG (probably at Tech Plen)

<shawn> Scribe: Alan

<shawn> scribenick: alan

Outreach updates

DS Phill Jenkins visited Wells Fargo this week. Series of meetings with WF.

DS Introducing newest version of HPR, met to discuss it.

SH Has anyone tried new version of HPR?

[Nobody has tried it yet]

WD Have tried web adapt.

DS There's a beta version of aDesigner, nice tool for checking.

CC Justing and I have done a series of presentations at Michigan State (?). Two in last week. Trying to get accessibility into work practices.

CC Has had good impact. Getting accessibility into organisation.

CC In four weeks launching new site on web accessibility.

CC Presentations will be online soon. Producing a video.

[BM joins]

[JT joins]

<shawn> http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/

JT Used CSS to create on-screen presentation with Opera in projection mode.

<shawn> ACTION: justin & charmance to point to presentation materials when online

CC In presentations talked about ATAG. Students generate output, ATAG rules should be followed by programmers (creating tools?)

SH ATAG 2 is in last call. You might like to get developers to use ATAG 2 draft and send comments.

WD [to CC] How do you cope with independant sites that spring up on their own?

CC We don't oversee specific sites, but just provide information and encouragement. Have groups that will do consulting work for a fee.

<Justin> my web standards presentation - http://approg.msu.edu/justin/standards/

CC Will be doing training of graduate students so they can train their staff.

WAI Site Redesign, minor changes in information architecture

SH [Explains recent changes to design]

SH Now have a WAI-specific search

SH Site map. Would like two kinds of comments: Personal preference and general, accessibility

HB Isn't page contents box redundant?

DS Why do some boxes have dots in them and others not.

SH Will talk about that next

SH What about "support materials" Is it good term?

HS In description page, Implementing and Promoting are together, but in site map they are seperate.

HS There is no heading for "promoting".

SH There isn't actually much material about promoting. We'd like to have more.

SH We thought about having a page on promoting, but would be a whole new deliverable.

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn look at promotion under implementing under promoting and under participation

SH Task force trying to keep text in navigation as short as possoible. Is it worth adding "promoting" there and making text larger?

SH In navigation, expanding "Support materials" displays other options.

SH Could put promoting but want to keep it short. Had thought about inverting the two (to "Promoting and Implementing")

WD People could be confused by "Implementing". Could think it means implementing in page desgin, rather than in organisation.

SH Have added "About WAI > Mission and Organization" (moved text from top level page for consistency)


[Nobody against change]

CL Could be "help using..."

DS How about "WAI site help"

WD Why not just "Help"

CC Or just "Site help"?

SH Could be confused with W3C site help

SD Would like to see explanation of different symbols.

SH We will probably remove them anyway, but agree it would be good idea.

Simplified navigation interaction design


<Wayne> Charmane: Doesn't like. It is not as clear

<Wayne> Harvey: Agrees. It looks cluttered. On line is too heavy. It looks messy, and may waste space.

<Wayne> Doyle: witout bullets things mix togeter.

<Wayne> SLH Tried a few changes: Question: How can we show indentation without taking too much space?

<Wayne> SLH Indentation that communicates hierarchy..

<Wayne> Harvey: Indentation without bullets might work with learning

Visual Design

<Wayne> http://w3.org/2004/09/wai-nav/v7/e-implement.html

<Wayne> General: Discussion over ... or >> to indicate child nodes

<Wayne> Initial good response to >> was good visual but didn't indicate children

<Wayne> Elipse: ... Has meaning that there is more, but may be missed visually.

Options to show where you are.

<Wayne> Several reactions, but none of the strategies seemed to click.

Using Bold to connect content links with site map terms

<Wayne> Genreally, people did not see the relationship.

<Wayne> Harvey: Adds clutter.

<Wayne> There was a general impression of messiness.

<Wayne> Others help scanning

<Wayne> People may not have the context for using it effectively.

<Wayne> Perapt we should put important words at the begining.

<Wayne> For some people mixed bolding actually confuses.

<Wayne> SLH: Conclusion - there are a lot of preferences.


W3C About W3C Section

Starts with > for unknown reasons

Have trouble with link takes the eye away from the page

Links on the right; the line is too heavy; dark and color contast; after about W3C does not open or close

Horizantal Line seems to separate links; but there were complaints about visual complexity; indentation doesn't seem clear; absence of line helps with the indent.

Indentation is more difficult to detect; The darker grey box may interfere.

Distinction between internal and leaf nodes

SLH Is this indicated?

Charmane: Is this important?

Note to Alan: I did not identify every commenter because many people agreed or repeated points. So for the comments on the page issues I just tried to gather what was said. If you need any explanation contact me.

Wayne (wed@csulb.edu).

<shawn> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/02/18-eo-minutes shawn

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: justin & charmance to point to presentation materials when online
[NEW] ACTION: Shawn look at promotion under implementing under promoting and under participation
[NEW] ACTION: shawn schedule WAB cluster update to EOWG (probably at Tech Plen)
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/02/18 15:39:04 $

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Default Present: Doyle_Saylor, Alan, Shawn, Wayne, Bingham, Sylvie_Duchateau, Chuck_Letourneau, Charmane, Henk, Blossom, Justin
Present: Doyle_Saylor Wayne Shawn Alan_(muted) Bingham Sylvie_Duchateau Chuck_Letourneau Charmane Henk
Regrets: Shadi Carol Libby
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005JanMar/0130.html

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<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: charmance cluster justin schedule shawn update wab

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