17:59:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
17:59:07 <RRSAgent> is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc
17:59:17 <Zakim> +Ralph
17:59:41 <guus> guus has joined #swbp
17:59:46 <Ralph> Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG
17:59:53 <Ralph> Chair: Guus
18:00:10 <Fabien> Fabien has joined #swbp
18:01:44 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
18:01:46 <Zakim> +??P7
18:02:00 <Zakim> +Fabien_Gandon (was [Sophia])
18:02:20 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #swbp
18:02:22 <guus> zakim, ??p27 is Jeff
18:02:22 <Zakim> sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named '??p27'
18:02:25 <aharth> aharth has joined #swbp
18:02:44 <guus> zakim, ??P7 is Jeff
18:02:44 <Zakim> +Jeff; got it
18:02:57 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #swbp
18:03:00 <Zakim> +??P8
18:03:20 <guus> zakim, ??p8 is Jeremy
18:03:20 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
18:03:36 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:03:58 <ChrisW> zakim, [IBM] is temporarily me
18:03:58 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
18:04:04 <guus> zakim, [IBM] is ChirsW
18:04:04 <Zakim> sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named '[IBM]'
18:04:16 <Zakim> +Gavin_McKenzie
18:04:19 <jjc> jjc has joined #swbp
18:04:26 <guus> zakim, IBM is ChrisW
18:04:26 <Zakim> sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named 'IBM'
18:04:28 <Zakim> +??P11
18:04:36 <Zakim> +Andreas_Harth (was ??P11)
18:04:48 <Zakim> +??P12
18:05:06 <guus> zakim, ??P12 is AlistairM
18:05:06 <Zakim> +AlistairM; got it
18:05:14 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0103.html
18:05:23 <Ralph> Ralph has changed the topic to: SWBP agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0103.html
18:06:05 <jjcscribe> Meeting starting
18:06:06 <aliman> aliman has joined #swbp
18:06:26 <jjcscribe> 1 Admin
18:06:42 <jjcscribe> many regrets (see agenda and list)
18:06:53 <Ralph> Scribe: Jeremy
18:06:54 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's here?
18:06:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Phil_Tetlow, Guus, Ralph, Fabien_Gandon (muted), Jeff, Jeremy, ChrisW, Gavin_McKenzie, Andreas_Harth, AlistairM
18:06:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see aliman, jjcscribe, JeffP, aharth, ChrisW, Fabien, guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ralph, PhilT
18:07:06 <Ralph> scribenick: jjcscribe
18:07:31 <jjcscribe> minutes accpeted nem con
18:07:47 <jjcscribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0059.html
18:07:57 <jjcscribe> next meeting agreed Feb 10 , 1800 UTC
18:08:02 <jjcscribe> no agenda amendments
18:08:13 <jjcscribe> On tech plenary
18:08:34 <jjcscribe> Ralph asks for people to reserve hotel rooms
18:08:48 <jjcscribe> W3C is well below anticipated number
18:09:28 <jjcscribe> Adjournment time: Ralph suggests 4pm
18:09:46 <jjcscribe> Guus: seconds
18:09:52 <jjcscribe> no objections
18:09:57 <Ralph> Regrets: Evan_Wallace, Darren_Govoni, Natasha_Noy, Libby_Miller, Marco_Nanni, Deborah_McGuinness, Alan_Rector, Dan_Brickley, Benjamin_Nguyen
18:10:04 <jjcscribe> RESOLVED f2f will adjourn at 4pm march 4
18:10:51 <Ralph> Jeremy: would be good to touch base with other WGs, e.g. HTML
18:11:34 <aharth> zakim, mute aharth
18:11:35 <Zakim> sorry, aharth, I do not see a party named 'aharth'
18:11:39 <aharth> zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
18:11:39 <Zakim> Andreas_Harth should now be muted
18:12:08 <jjcscribe> Circulating agenda some time next week
18:12:30 <jjcscribe> ACTION guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module
18:13:07 <jjcscribe> ACTION: guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module
18:13:35 <jjcscribe> old action Guus to contact someone regarding "source response" issue 
18:14:28 <gmckenzi> gmckenzi has joined #swbp
18:14:44 <jjcscribe> jeremy reckons the DAWG may have resolve this
18:14:50 <jjcscribe> action withdrawn
18:15:02 <jjcscribe> old action Ralph to report back
18:15:06 <jjcscribe> is done
18:15:40 <jjcscribe> agendum 2 ODM review
18:15:47 <Ralph> Topic: ODM Review
18:16:37 <Zakim> +??P13
18:16:42 <Ralph> Phil: Jeremy and I are bouncing comments back and forth
18:16:48 <jjcscribe> Jeremy posted comments
18:16:56 <jjcscribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0128
18:17:06 <jjcscribe> Guus still on-going with his review
18:17:19 <jjcscribe> Jeremy does not support Phil's comment:
18:17:43 <mikeU> mikeU has joined #swbp
18:17:44 <jjcscribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0084
18:17:53 <guus> zakim, ??p13 is MikeU
18:17:53 <Zakim> +MikeU; got it
18:18:17 <jjcscribe> Phil believes that a master model, a UML model, supporting the hub-spoke position
18:19:47 <Ralph> JJC: I felt that it would take a long time to address Phil's comment and that would set back the document
18:21:59 <jjcscribe> JJC: can't support even the content of Phil's comments (given feedback from colleague)
18:25:10 <jjcscribe> Ralph weak support for Jeremy's position that Phil's comments not sufficiently constructive
18:25:19 <jjcscribe> Phil lets matter drop
18:25:37 <jjcscribe> On Jeremy comments. Main poiint is that the OWL Metamodel still has OWL DLism
18:25:59 <jjcscribe> Guus suggests that Jeremy sends these as personal comments, and Jeremy agrees
18:26:07 <tbaker> tbaker has joined #swbp
18:26:19 <Ralph> "not sufficiently constructive"; i.e. a specific proposed change would be what a W3C Working Group would expect from a Last Call review comment
18:26:27 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker
18:26:32 <jjcscribe> (thanks ralph)
18:26:33 <tbaker> 431449#
18:27:36 <jjcscribe> Jeremy suggests that an n-ary relations editor should look at half page of ODM doc
18:27:48 <jjcscribe> ACTION: jeremy ask natasha to review that half page
18:28:37 <jjcscribe> (clarify page 68/69)
18:29:00 <jjcscribe> Debs and Guus's actions are continued
18:29:16 <jjcscribe> ChrisW: Holger has agreed to review
18:30:02 <jjcscribe> Jeremy: I believe HP will do further review
18:30:24 <Ralph> Topic: OEP TF Update
18:30:28 <jjcscribe> Agendum 3.1
18:30:45 <Ralph> ACTION: ralph to make a "List of WG documents" more apparent from the home page
18:30:49 <jjcscribe> ChrisW We have new draft on part/whole relations, and editors draft
18:30:50 <Ralph> -- continued
18:30:55 <jjcscribe> on other documents
18:30:55 <Ralph> Regrets+ Elisa Kendall
18:31:10 <jjcscribe> hoping to have draft on units/measures
18:31:30 <jjcscribe> Natasha wants to take classes-as-values to next step
18:31:44 <jjcscribe> Guus: this would be WG Note
18:32:14 <jjcscribe> There is no Last Call for WD->WG Note transition
18:32:40 <jjcscribe> Ralph: is natasha saying that no further changes are expected?
18:33:02 <jjcscribe> Ralph: if so then we move to W3C Note, we don't expect to do further work on this doc
18:33:23 <jjcscribe> ChrisW: this will be discussed at next OEP telecon
18:33:40 <jjcscribe> ChrisW: new WD on n-ary relations in preparation
18:34:42 <jjcscribe> Guus: for all three we need versions for WG review (classes as values, value partitions)
18:35:30 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Jan/att-0020/ClassesAsValues-2nd-WD.html
18:37:45 <jjcscribe> Guus suggests that OEP makes formal proposal to move these to WG note to be decided at next telecon
18:38:18 <jjcscribe> n-ary relations may or may not be ready for next WD ... ChrisW is about to propose more changes ...
18:39:47 <jjcscribe> Ralph asks for volunteers to review n-ary relations ...
18:39:56 <jjcscribe> (silence)
18:40:20 <jjcscribe> jjc: I'll be on holiday
18:40:24 <jjcscribe> Ralph volunteers
18:40:42 <jjcscribe> ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready
18:41:31 <jjcscribe> part-whole not ready for formal review
18:41:54 <jjcscribe> agendum 3.2 PORT
18:42:40 <jjcscribe> alistair suggests putting back the deadline for drafts by a week or two
18:42:55 <jjcscribe> current deadline is for one week from today
18:43:11 <jjcscribe> but it may take longer because discussion is in depth
18:43:38 <jjcscribe> Guus: do we expect to have a draft ready for publication by next telecon
18:43:49 <jjcscribe> (Feb 10)
18:44:14 <jjcscribe> Alistair ... looks at calendar
18:45:34 <jjcscribe> Ralph - reviewers need to be able to tell rest of WG that comments are satisfactorially addressed
18:48:19 <jjcscribe> Guus - it would be nice to get more docs published before TP
18:48:20 <mikeU> mikeU has joined #swbp
18:48:34 <aliman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0126.html
18:48:46 <jjcscribe> is progress report on PORT
18:48:47 <aliman> (progress report for PORT)
18:48:58 <jjcscribe> Agendum 3.3 Wordnet
18:49:44 <guus> WordNet TF: Mark van Assem has been asked (VU)
18:49:56 <jjcscribe> to help ...
18:50:10 <jjcscribe> Ralph: he should attend telecons if he is participant
18:51:06 <jjcscribe> ACTION: guus discuss Mark's participation in Wordnet tf with Brian
18:51:21 <jjcscribe> MikeU: on wordnet ...
18:51:40 <jjcscribe> The link from the main page doesn't have any links
18:52:37 <jjcscribe> are there any notes ?
18:52:48 <jjcscribe> Jeremy: I didn't find any useful documents
18:53:03 <jjcscribe> Guus: Brian has a doc that Guus finds useful
18:53:33 <Ralph> Topic: XML Schema Datatypes
18:53:54 <Ralph> JJC: all of Evan's comments should now be addressed, though need to close the loop with him
18:53:57 <guus> guus has joined #swbp
18:55:53 <Ralph> ... would like WG review to start; if any of Evan's comments aren't closed, that discussion can continue in parallel
18:56:03 <Ralph> ... want other WGs to be able to review
18:56:23 <Ralph> ... will send a dated URL after telecon adjourns
18:57:09 <Ralph> [finding http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Nov/0011.html "wordnet breakout: raw notes" ]
18:57:50 <Ralph> JJC: I would like to bring the current editor's draft to the attention of other WGs and solicit their comments before the Tech Plenary
18:58:51 <Ralph> ... because this is a W3C Working Draft
18:59:19 <Ralph> ... would like some internal W3C review before it goes public
19:00:27 <Ralph> Ralph: you may be over-cautious; I think the Status of This Document can adequately explain its status, but I have no objection to giving other WGs an opportunity to comment before it is published
19:00:41 <Ralph> Guus: suggest an informal message from Jeremy as editor to the other WGs
19:01:07 <Ralph> Jeremy: would like the f2f agenda to include a formal proposal to move to WD
19:01:32 <jjcscribe> Agendum 3.5 VM
19:01:33 <Ralph> ... conditional on any comments received prior to then
19:01:46 <jjcscribe> ralph's action done
19:01:54 <jjcscribe> Tom: draft is behind schedule ...
19:02:20 <Ralph> [Ralph confesses to being one of the holdouts on writing for VM :( ]
19:02:46 <jjcscribe> ACTION: jjc draft msg to other WGs concerning XSCH doc, 
19:03:53 <jjcscribe> Dan and libby have been busy
19:04:09 <jjcscribe> Tom; hard to commit to timetable ...
19:05:13 <Zakim> -ChrisW
19:06:23 <jjcscribe> skos and foaf are two important vocabularies
19:06:34 <jjcscribe> tom has been reviewing skos specs
19:07:01 <jjcscribe> still missing stuff on foundational docs
19:07:22 <jjcscribe> big missing piece is description of aspects of foaf
19:07:54 <jjcscribe> guus can we publish without foaf
19:08:35 <jjcscribe> jeremy: a WD is working and can include placeholders in missing section
19:08:55 <jjcscribe> guus: I don't think foaf is a critical missing piece
19:11:11 <jjcscribe> agendum 3.6 RDF-in-HTML
19:11:21 <jjcscribe> there was discussion at cg
19:12:04 <jjcscribe> and agreement that swbp/html meeting at tp would be good
19:13:07 <jjcscribe> ralph we believe that html wg intend to publish lc including rdf/a but we have no formal or informal comms indicating this
19:14:28 <jjcscribe> ralph: TF will consider what to do with grddl ... at future TF telecons
19:15:43 <jjcscribe> ralph: TF could be aiming to declare success at TP
19:15:55 <jjcscribe> agendum 3.7 ADTF
19:16:04 <jjcscribe> Libby has rejoined WG from asemantics
19:16:16 <jjcscribe> agendum 3.8 RDFTM
19:16:24 <jjcscribe> bios sent
19:17:40 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0120.html [RDFTM] Status and regrets [Steve Pepper 2005-01-27]
19:18:02 <Zakim> -Fabien_Gandon
19:19:00 <jjcscribe> ACTION: guus send msg to Steve and RDFTM reminding them to use list for TF discussions
19:19:06 <Ralph> I am concerned that RDFTM discussions seem to be taking place off-list
19:19:15 <jjcscribe> (observation that TF is progressing, but not much visiible traffic)
19:19:29 <jjcscribe> 3.10 agendum
19:19:43 <jjcscribe> Phil things are going well, Jeff got web page up
19:19:45 <Ralph> Kudos to SE TF for publishing minutes of their telecon
19:22:13 <jjcscribe> jjc: my colleagues would like me to tell them what SE is doing, but I can't
19:22:24 <jjcscribe> Phil: give us a little longer to be more specific
19:22:40 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jan/0127.html [SE] Web page updated [Jeff 2005-01-27]
19:23:48 <jjcscribe> Guus: a note mapping worldviews of SW and SE
19:24:10 <jjcscribe> this should be doable in a 3-6 vmonth time scale
19:24:50 <jjcscribe> Phil: let's discuss autonomics
19:24:55 <tbaker> (Tom Baker needs to leave Zakim - will stay on IRC)
19:25:01 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
19:25:07 <jjcscribe> Guus: but autonomics is not clear in SW, and not low lying fruit
19:27:09 <jjcscribe> Ralph and guus would like TF to concentrate on low lying fruit
19:27:29 <jjcscribe> Guus: IBM have offered support of grady booch on this TF
19:28:50 <jjcscribe> Phil: Univ of Sunderland has joined W3C ....and hope to participate in this WG
19:29:31 <jjcscribe> Guus: this is potentially very useful TF but we need to focus on clear short term deliverables
19:30:02 <Ralph> Topic: AOB
19:30:04 <Zakim> -Phil_Tetlow
19:30:35 <Ralph> JJC: should we talk with I18N folk during Tech Plenary to see what internationalization issues exist for the Semantic Web
19:31:01 <gmckenzi> gmckenzi has left #swbp
19:31:02 <Zakim> -MikeU
19:31:06 <Zakim> -Jeremy
19:31:08 <jjcscribe> adjourned
19:31:08 <Zakim> -AlistairM
19:31:12 <Zakim> -Andreas_Harth
19:31:14 <Zakim> -Gavin_McKenzie
19:31:18 <Zakim> -Jeff
19:31:49 <Ralph> Phil: Peter Smith of Univeristy of Sunderland says Sunderland has joined W3C expressly to participate in SWBP
19:32:01 <Ralph> Ralph: doesn't yet see mail from Peter
19:32:06 <jjc> jjc has joined #swbp
19:42:15 <Zakim> -Ralph
19:42:17 <Zakim> -Guus
19:42:23 <Zakim> SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended
19:42:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Phil_Tetlow, Guus, Ralph, Fabien_Gandon, Jeff, Jeremy, ChrisW, Gavin_McKenzie, Andreas_Harth, AlistairM, MikeU, Tom_Baker
19:44:59 <tbaker_> tbaker_ has joined #swbp
20:18:42 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items:
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module [1]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T18-13-07
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeremy ask natasha to review that half page [2]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T18-27-48
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ralph to make a "List of WG documents" more apparent from the home page [3]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T18-30-45
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready [4]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T18-40-42
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus discuss Mark's participation in Wordnet tf with Brian [5]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T18-51-06
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jjc draft msg to other WGs concerning XSCH doc,  [6]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T19-02-46
20:18:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus send msg to Steve and RDFTM reminding them to use list for TF discussions [7]
20:18:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/27-swbp-irc#T19-19-00