20:02:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
20:02:16 <RRSAgent> is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/01/24-tagmem-irc
20:03:13 <Stuart> zakim, this is tag
20:03:13 <Zakim> ok, Stuart; that matches TAG_Weekly()2:30PM
20:03:24 <Stuart> zakim, who is here?
20:03:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roy_Fielding, Stuart
20:03:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, Chris, DanC, Norm
20:03:44 <Zakim> +Norm
20:05:06 <Chris> zakim, dial chris-617
20:05:06 <Zakim> ok, Chris; the call is being made
20:05:08 <Zakim> +Chris
20:07:52 <Zakim> +DanC
20:08:54 <Zakim> +TimBL
20:09:32 <Stuart> zakim, who is here?
20:09:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roy_Fielding, Stuart, Norm, Chris, DanC, TimBL
20:09:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, Chris, DanC
20:10:10 <Chris> Meeting: TAG telcon
20:10:14 <Chris> Chair: Stuart
20:10:29 <tim-phone> tim-phone has joined #tagmem
20:10:33 <tim-phone> if you can from the unforgiving minute get 60 seconds worth of distance run ....
20:10:46 <Chris> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/24-tag
20:10:58 <Chris> Scribe: Chris
20:12:08 <DanC> q+ to request an agendum on uri scheme registry reivew, W3C/IETF telcon 27 Jan
20:12:20 <Chris> Regrets: Paul, Ian
20:12:37 <Chris> Topic: Agenda review
20:12:47 <DanC> (side note on review of agenda: this agenda is not exhaustive w.r.t. action items in the group; sigh.)
20:13:00 <Chris> DC: IETF call
20:13:22 <Chris> Topic: Next meeting
20:13:28 <Chris> SKW: Regrets
20:14:06 <Chris> SKW: transition telcons before new TAG participants terms
20:14:13 <Chris> TBL: No objection
20:14:28 <Chris> SKW: VQ agreed to work o agenda for first f2f
20:15:02 <Chris> NW: Volunteer to chair the telcon next week
20:15:13 <Chris> RF: Volunteer to scribe next week
20:15:33 <Chris> Topic: approve agenda
20:15:50 <Chris> SKW: Did not note that we accepted minutes of previous meeting
20:15:58 <DanC> yes they do, stuart: "Minutes of 20 Dec 2004 accepted." -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/10-tag-summary.html
20:16:02 <Chris> NW: No objection
20:16:07 <Chris> TBL: Seconded
20:16:16 <Chris> RESOLVED; accept minutes of last meeting
20:16:40 <Stuart> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/0025.html
20:16:44 <Chris> Topic: public discussion of extensibility and versioning
20:16:55 <Chris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/0025.html
20:17:02 <Chris> Noahs email
20:17:40 <Chris> SKW: which list - schema-dev, www-tag, etc
20:18:13 <Chris> CL: Asking ppl to subscribe to www-tag gets them a high volume list; better to go on schema-dev
20:18:51 <Chris> DC: As long as its public, fine with me. if its more general than just schema, should be on www-tag
20:19:13 <Chris> SKW: So, schema-specific stuff on schema-dev
20:19:41 <Chris> ACTION Stuart: respond to Noah citing xml-schema-dev as forum for schema specific versioning discussion
20:20:04 <DanC> (if anybody is seeking a shared forum where both the schema WG and the TAG are obliged to pay attention, we don't yet have one)
20:20:31 <Chris> SKW: Joint meeting with schema 14 Feb at regular TAG telcon slot
20:20:43 <Chris> Topic: Tech Plenary
20:21:04 <Chris> SKW: Net outcome: A single proposed Panel session on theme of Extensibility and Versioning. Paul Downey (BT) is owning the session for TPPC.
20:21:04 <Chris> Anticipating participation from TAG (volunteers?)and other WG's inc. XML Schema and QA-WG.
20:21:24 <Chris> SKW: Steve Bratt said just one session
20:22:03 <Chris> SKW: Perhaps DO, HT, NM on panel?
20:22:22 <Stuart> http://www.w3.org/2005/03/02-TechPlenAgenda.html
20:22:23 <Chris> Plenary agenda:
20:22:39 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2005/03/02-TechPlenAgenda.html
20:23:57 <Chris> CL: I'm interested in Cross-Specifications Test Suites
20:24:07 <Chris> NW: Interested in XML futures
20:24:36 <DanC> (I feel similarly to CL re test foo)
20:24:41 <Norm> Norm has joined #tagmem
20:25:09 <Chris> Topic: TAG f2f
20:25:20 <Chris> SKW: VQ is assembling an agenda
20:25:37 <Chris> ... TAG liaisons tracking table started
20:27:32 <Chris> SKW: little other interest in extensibility outside of XML and schema
20:27:48 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html
20:27:59 <Chris> DC: Is thuis up to date and maintained?
20:28:06 <Chris> SKW: Yes, ffeel free to update
20:28:17 <Chris> s/thuis/this
20:28:23 <Chris> s/ffeel/feel
20:29:15 <DanC> (actually, what I asked was: does the page currently know everything stuart knows, and he said yes.)
20:29:16 <Chris> RF: when are we meeting:
20:29:22 <Chris> SKW: Mon 9-12
20:29:42 <Chris> NW: plan to be there, may be slightly delayed'
20:30:22 <Chris> Topic: QA Review
20:30:39 <Stuart> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/0009.html
20:30:41 <Chris> CL: my draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/0009.html
20:31:19 <Chris> spec is http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-qaframe-spec-20041122/
20:32:30 <DanC> (yes, it has a pleasant style to it. plenty of whitespace, not horribly long)
20:33:47 <DanC> (ah... now I see why I didn't read Chris's msg; went to tag, not to www-tag; and yet it's in the technical part of our agenda. disconnect, for me.)
20:35:23 <Chris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/att-0009/qaframework-recursiveconformance.html
20:36:48 <Zakim> +Noah_Mendelsohn
20:37:19 <Chris> its not clear whether the review is public yet, since we have not agreed to it
20:37:33 <Stuart> ack dan
20:37:33 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to request an agendum on uri scheme registry reivew, W3C/IETF telcon 27 Jan and to 
20:38:04 <Chris> DC: seems like a fine review, wish oit was sent to them directly
20:38:58 <Chris> DC: Not read carefully. Critical to fix the optional conformance bit
20:39:38 <Chris> (discussion - who owns and umbrella spec, what if its another WG). Cross-spec conformance
20:39:45 <DanC> (table http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Jan/att-0009/qaframework-recursiveconformance.html)
20:40:49 <Chris> SKW: Needs to clearly indicate which section is being discussed
20:41:07 <Chris> SKW: Overal l positive tone not conveyed by tesxt, add a prefix on that
20:41:23 <tim-phone> timbl notes character set problems with that table.
20:41:26 <Chris> SKW: Discussion at TP on these comments? CL available
20:41:34 <Chris> CL: Sure
20:42:13 <Chris> SKW: Who owns this after Chris turns into a pumpkin?
20:43:39 <Chris> TBL: Can an external person contribute, or is this a tunnelling out of alumni until their actions are all done or transferred
20:44:22 <Chris> CL: Does not seem like too much work
20:44:33 <Chris> TBL: precedent, we invited DO to do similar
20:44:40 <Chris> CL: OK agreed
20:44:51 <Chris> SKW: Splendid
20:45:09 <Chris> SKW: Is this suitable to send as TAG feedback?
20:45:18 <Chris> RF: No objection
20:45:26 <Chris> (no objections)
20:45:47 <Chris> TBL: Abstain, did not get chance to read the comments. Support the TAG sending it
20:46:02 <Chris> NM: Abstain too, have not reviewed
20:46:19 <Chris> s/abstain/concurr/g
20:46:51 <DanC> (I think "abstain" puts a motion at risk of failing due to lack of support, while "concur" does not)
20:47:20 <Chris> SKW: Support CL 
20:47:22 <Chris>  Please send Last Call review comments on this document before that date to www-qa@w3.org, the publicly archived list 
20:47:35 <DanC> I gather we are so RESOLVED.
20:47:36 <Chris> ACTION Chris: Clean up and submit
20:47:50 <Chris> RESOLVED: These , cleaned up are TAG comments
20:48:03 <Chris> Topic: IETF URI Registry
20:48:13 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/
20:48:32 <DanC> Duplication of provisional URI namespace tokens in 2717/8-bis http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2005Jan/0020.html
20:48:46 <Chris> DC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2005Jan/0051.html
20:48:48 <DanC> http://ietfreport.isoc.org/idref/draft-hansen-2717bis-2718bis-uri-guidelines/
20:49:16 <Chris> DC: new process drafted, a provisionl and a final registry
20:49:26 <Chris> ... good to cite WebArch
20:49:45 <Chris> ... IRI everywhere is related to this
20:49:59 <tim-phone> q+
20:50:04 <Chris> ... if you care about this, time is running out to fix/change tings
20:50:32 <Chris> RF: they are ready to produce another draft
20:50:44 <Chris> RF: probably best to wait for the new draft
20:51:16 <Chris> SKW; could have multiple provisional registrations for the same URI scheme?
20:51:24 <Chris> DC: yes, but not the permanent one
20:52:32 <Chris> TBL: (scribe missed)
20:52:45 <Chris> SKW: Larry asked us to review new schemes.
20:53:03 <Chris> DC: expert review of new schemes as they move to permanent registry
20:53:09 <Chris> TBL: Who assigns it?
20:53:25 <Chris> DC: IESG last call, then its allocated
20:53:38 <Stuart> SKW: Larry asked us to review and comment on revision of the URI scheme registration process.
20:54:20 <Chris> RF: If anyone raises a non-uniqueness then it would halt the IESG review
20:54:56 <Chris> RF: Next draft wil make it more clear tat the permanent registry is unique. provisional registrsations that clas with permanent als not allowed
20:55:17 <Chris> TBL: No warning on provisional clashes?
20:55:51 <Chris> DC: Any sane (machine readable) registry can produce uniqueness
20:56:11 <Chris> NM: Early/late registration - late can have an inadvertent clash
20:57:21 <Chris> DC: 27 Jan IETF/W3C telcon
20:58:13 <Chris> DC: Next IETF is when??
20:58:15 <DanC> "6-11 Mar 2005 Minneapolis, MN?
20:58:15 <DanC>     62nd IETF"
20:58:22 <Chris> ... 6-11 March
20:58:34 <Chris> RF: Its not a WG so no meeting then
20:59:00 <Chris> Topic: XML Chunk Equality
20:59:25 <Chris> SKW: Suggested posting as a note, or a finding
20:59:51 <Chris> SKW: TBL asked for reasons for different types of equality, when to use each one
21:00:52 <DanC> "ACTION: NDW to make editorial improvements, point to other different schemes, why use them, things to avoid in XML Chunk Equality."
21:01:03 <Chris> NW: Took some actions to improove the doc in this way. no due date. Not completed yet
21:01:06 <DanC> -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/10-tag-summary.html#item08
21:01:40 <Chris> SKW: So, discuss more once this revision is done
21:02:10 <Chris> NW: Due date depends on XSL/XQ specification schedule... tell you next week
21:03:43 <DanC> "pc: good to see when F&O deep= works and when it does not"
21:03:53 <Chris> TBL: Equality characterized by a number of parameters?
21:04:17 <Chris> NW: Yes, deep= has options that can be set. Namespace-related options
21:04:45 <Stuart> Use cases from the Issur raising:
21:04:49 <Stuart> Cases I am aware of:
21:04:49 <Stuart> - XML itself uses it for an external entity
21:04:49 <Stuart> - XML schema has the "Deep equality" issue as to when any two chunks 
21:04:49 <Stuart> are "equal".
21:04:49 <Stuart> - RDF has a "XML Literal" data type which it handles transparently.  It 
21:04:50 <Stuart> needs a notion of when two chunks are the same.
21:04:52 <Stuart> - XML-DSig signs, and therefore ensures the integrity of, a chunk of XML
21:04:58 <DanC> (timbl, why are you surprised that RSS feeds don't have namespaces? consumers don't require them. people naturally do the minimum work that achieves their goal.)
21:05:03 <Chris> TBL: Amazed at how much RSS has no namespace
21:06:00 <Chris> NW: question is of unused but declared namespaces?
21:06:18 <Chris> DC: case of two non namespaced docs, equal or not???
21:06:48 <Chris> F(equal) -> Yes | No | dunno
21:06:55 <DanC> i.e. did <p> in doc1 mean what <p> in doc2 meant?
21:08:08 <Chris> NM: (starts to say something interesting, but phone fades)
21:08:47 <Chris> Topic: Mark Baker issue on WS-Addressing
21:09:06 <DanC> (the best way to provoke a response is to threaten harm, somehow; i.e. start talking about the next topic, threatining somebody's ability to comment on the previous topic)
21:09:21 <Chris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jan/0000.html
21:09:36 <Chris> DC; Read hoim to say he was happy
21:09:45 <Chris> s/hoim/him
21:10:21 <timbl> timbl has joined #tagmem
21:10:25 <Chris> WS-Addressing SOAP binding & app protocols
21:11:00 <Chris> DC: (reads from email)
21:12:24 <timbl> wsa:to
21:12:53 <timbl> q+
21:13:00 <Chris> DC: its not a new issue
21:13:29 <Chris> NM: SOAP will wind up putting the URI where HTTP wants it, but will also be in the SAP header too
21:13:44 <Chris> ... is it a flaw to carry the info in an additional place?
21:14:08 <DanC> (doesn't seem like a new issue, to me; seems like issue http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#whenToUseGet-7 )
21:14:25 <Stuart> ack tim
21:14:33 <Stuart> ack tim
21:14:42 <Chris> TBL: Arch of the WS-* specs is not yet written.
21:15:13 <Chris> ... identify an endpoint in ws, but actually send it to a different URI of the service, which has some connection, but the sever has a URI
21:15:43 <Chris> ... so its a service end point, and the service can talk about multiple objects
21:15:50 <Chris> objects and services are distinct
21:16:56 <Chris> ... another achitecture, get on the URI of a book, but behind the scenes its broken down into multiple services, checking financials and stock etc so it looks atomic but i ssplit up behind the scenes
21:17:40 <Chris> ... not clear wheter to support marks issue because its not clear what architecture it is fitting into
21:18:04 <Chris> ... good to involve DO here, finsd how WS folks tend to do this
21:18:18 <Chris> ... may be some defacto or emergent architecture
21:18:45 <Chris> .... can't say its broken unless we can point to the part that breaks
21:19:08 <Chris> DC: Prefer to discuss whether to add this as an issue, not the summary of the eventual finding
21:19:15 <Chris> TBL: Happy to add it to the list
21:19:28 <Chris> NM: or work it outafter some fact finding first
21:19:37 <Chris> :)
21:20:28 <Chris> RF: seems the direction of all ws specs is to be binding neutral, but no statement that a given binding is required
21:20:39 <DanC> endPointRefs-NN?
21:20:49 <Chris> ... so entirely separate architectures all described as web services
21:20:56 <Chris> ... support adding it as an issue
21:21:22 <Chris> SKW: TP liaison with WS Addressing 
21:22:04 <DanC> ACTION DanC: edit http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html to reflect avaialability and interest
21:22:11 <Chris> NM: Suggest asking Mark Nottingham
21:22:44 <Chris> SKW: Calls question to add as an issue
21:22:54 <Chris> DC: endpointRefs-NN
21:23:01 <Chris> DC: Aye
21:23:12 <Chris> CL: Concurr
21:23:15 <Chris> RF: Yes
21:23:21 <timbl> Aye
21:23:21 <Chris> NW: Yes
21:23:28 <Chris> SKW Concurr
21:23:29 <Stuart> concur
21:23:41 <Chris> NM: Yes
21:24:01 <Chris> RESOLVED: New issue endpointRefs-NN
21:24:07 <Chris> salt NN to taste
21:24:18 <DanC> (tradition is to announce new issues. I'm not in a position do that)
21:24:23 <DanC> (easily)
21:24:28 <Chris> ACTION Stuart: Tell mark Nottingham we added the isse and would like to discuss it
21:24:46 <Chris> s/mark/Mark
21:24:59 <Chris> tag-announce and www-tag?
21:25:06 <Chris> SKW: End of agenda
21:25:11 <Chris> DC: Seconded :)
21:25:22 <Zakim> -Roy_Fielding
21:25:29 <Chris> Adjourned
21:25:44 <Zakim> -Norm
21:26:19 <Zakim> -TimBL
21:26:33 <Chris> rrsagent, bye
21:26:33 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items:
21:26:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Stuart to respond to Noah citing xml-schema-dev as forum for schema specific versioning discussion [1]
21:26:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/24-tagmem-irc#T20-19-41
21:26:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to Clean up and submit [2]
21:26:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/24-tagmem-irc#T20-47-36
21:26:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to edit http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html to reflect avaialability and interest [3]
21:26:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/24-tagmem-irc#T21-22-04
21:26:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Stuart to Tell mark Nottingham we added the isse and would like to discuss it [4]
21:26:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/24-tagmem-irc#T21-24-28