IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-01-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:53:45 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:53:45 [RRSAgent]: is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/01/20-wai-wcag-irc
20:53:53 [wendy]: Meeting: WCAG WG weekly telecon
20:54:00 [wendy]: Scribe: wendy
20:54:09 [wendy]: Date: 20 January 2004
20:54:38 [wendy]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0171.html
20:54:46 [wendy]: agenda+ TTF summary
20:55:18 [wendy]: agenda+ 1.2 issues review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/att-0158/media-equiv-summary.html
20:55:37 [wendy]: agenda+ 1.0 to 2.0 mapping http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004OctDec/att-0603/WCAG_1.0_to_WCAG_2.0_SC_12-15-04.html
20:55:57 [wendy]: agenda+ baseline
20:56:11 [wendy]: agenda+ defn of structure http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=506
20:56:11 [Yvette_Hoitink]: Yvette_Hoitink has joined #wai-wcag
20:56:18 [Yvette_Hoitink]: Hello everyone
20:56:22 [rellero]: Ciao :-)
20:56:53 [Yvette_Hoitink]: Ciao Roberto
20:56:53 [wendy]: agenda+ loretta's proposed rewording http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=848
20:57:16 [wendy]: agenda+ ben's proposal http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=887
20:57:37 [wendy]: agenda+ 1.1 already covers issue? http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=499
20:58:58 [wendy]: Regrets: Alex Li, Becky Gibson, Roberto Castaldo, Roberto Scano
20:59:05 [ben_]: ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
20:59:15 [wendy]: agenda?
21:00:11 [ChrisR]: ChrisR has joined #wai-wcag
21:00:53 [wendy]: zakim, this is wcag
21:00:53 [Zakim]: ok, wendy; that matches WAI_WCAG()4:00PM
21:00:57 [wendy]: zakim, who's here?
21:00:57 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0, John_Slatin, Wendy
21:00:58 [Zakim]: On IRC I see ChrisR, ben_, Yvette_Hoitink, RRSAgent, Zakim, wendy, rellero, achuter
21:01:14 [wendy]: zakim, ??P0 is Alan_Chuter
21:01:14 [Zakim]: +Alan_Chuter; got it
21:01:33 [Zakim]: +??P2
21:01:39 [Zakim]: +??P3
21:01:41 [wendy]: zakim, ??P2 is David
21:01:41 [Zakim]: +David; got it
21:01:45 [wendy]: zakim, ??P3 is Trace
21:01:45 [Zakim]: +Trace; got it
21:02:27 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
21:02:35 [Zakim]: +??P6
21:02:39 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
21:02:43 [Andi]: Andi has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:47 [nabe]: nabe has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:49 [wendy]: zakim, ??P6 is Michael
21:02:49 [Zakim]: +Michael; got it
21:02:52 [wendy]: zakim, IPcaller is Chris
21:02:52 [Zakim]: +Chris; got it
21:02:54 [Zakim]: +??P8
21:02:55 [wendy]: zakim, IBM is Andi
21:02:55 [Zakim]: +Andi; got it
21:02:56 [Michael]: Michael has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:58 [rellero]: zakim, ??P8 is rellero
21:02:58 [Zakim]: +rellero; got it
21:03:08 [rellero]: zakim, mute me
21:03:08 [Zakim]: rellero should now be muted
21:03:14 [gregg]: gregg has joined #wai-wcag
21:03:37 [David]: David has joined #wai-wcag
21:03:40 [Zakim]: +Yvette_Hoitink
21:03:43 [Zakim]: +JasonWhite
21:03:44 [David]: test
21:04:12 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
21:04:14 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller]
21:04:15 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
21:04:20 [Zakim]: -Chris
21:04:33 [wendy]: zakim, Ipcaller is Chris
21:04:33 [Zakim]: +Chris; got it
21:04:40 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
21:04:42 [Zakim]: +Mike_Barta
21:04:58 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, who's on the phone?
21:04:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Alan_Chuter, John_Slatin, Wendy, David, Trace, Andi, Michael, rellero (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Chris, [IPcaller], Mike_Barta (muted)
21:05:14 [bengt]: bengt has joined #wai-wcag
21:05:32 [wendy]: bengt - are you the ip caller?
21:05:34 [Zakim]: +[ATTcaller]
21:05:46 [wendy]: zakim, ATTcaller is Doyle
21:05:46 [Zakim]: +Doyle; got it
21:05:46 [bengt]: not yet
21:05:54 [Zakim]: +??P13
21:06:01 [wendy]: zakim, ??P13 is Bengt
21:06:01 [Zakim]: +Bengt; got it
21:06:17 [wendy]: zakim, IPcaller may be Takayuki
21:06:17 [Zakim]: +Takayuki?; got it
21:06:19 [Zakim]: -Takayuki?
21:06:27 [wendy]: zakim, who's on the phone?
21:06:27 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Alan_Chuter, John_Slatin, Wendy, David, Trace, Andi, Michael, rellero (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Chris, Mike_Barta (muted), Doyle, Bengt
21:06:43 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
21:06:57 [wendy]: zakim, Ipcaller is Takayuki
21:06:57 [Zakim]: +Takayuki; got it
21:07:06 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 1
21:07:06 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "TTF summary" taken up [from wendy]
21:07:17 [Doyle]: Doyle has joined #wai-wcag
21:07:20 [nabe]: zakim, I am Takayuki
21:07:20 [Zakim]: ok, nabe, I now associate you with Takayuki
21:07:33 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, who's on the phone?
21:07:33 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Alan_Chuter, John_Slatin, Wendy, David, Trace, Andi, Michael, rellero (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Chris, Mike_Barta (muted), Doyle, Bengt, Takayuki
21:07:45 [wendy]: mc: have been reviewing test files. trying to decide what tets to make available in our next public draft.
21:07:53 [wendy]: mc: getting quicker at reviewing them, butalways raise issues.
21:07:53 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, who's on the phone?
21:07:53 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Alan_Chuter, John_Slatin, Wendy, David, Trace, Andi, Michael, rellero (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Chris, Mike_Barta (muted), Doyle, Bengt, Takayuki
21:08:04 [wendy]: mc: plan to do another chunk of tests next week.
21:08:33 [wendy]: mc: then talked about checklists and combining ideas from a few people - trying to figure out how checklists should look at how should draw from exisitng content.
21:08:56 [wendy]: mc: we've been looking for holes in the techniques (where there are guidelines and no techniques). have a number of people assigned to make proposals.
21:09:13 [wendy]: mc: our big gate is resources. know we have a lot of work, but need people to help to do the work.
21:09:42 [Zakim]: +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:10:09 [wendy]: gv: whatever doesn't get done, will have to migrate here. we've already discussed moving discussion of general techniques to thursday to help offload work from wednesday calls.
21:10:14 [wendy]: zakim, close this item
21:10:14 [Zakim]: agendum 1 closed
21:10:15 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:10:17 [Zakim]: 2. 1.2 issues review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/att-0158/media-equiv-summary.html [from wendy]
21:10:20 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 2
21:10:20 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "1.2 issues review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/att-0158/media-equiv-summary.html" taken up [from wendy]
21:10:42 [wendy]: scribe: david
21:10:56 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=171
21:11:13 [ben_]: & http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=438
21:11:35 [David]: first two issues. exception for access broadcas that reviewers that were confused, have fixed it we think...no complaints yet
21:12:22 [wendy]: q+
21:12:33 [wendy]: zakim, set timer at 1 minutes
21:12:33 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'set timer at 1 minutes', wendy
21:12:41 [wendy]: zakim, time speakers for 1 minutes
21:12:41 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'time speakers for 1 minutes', wendy
21:12:43 [David]: gv Joe clark worried that if a broadcast qualifies on the web. rebroadcasts will not be accessible
21:13:17 [David]: wendy ; this is a different issue and not related to closing these two
21:13:43 [David]: gv: let's clos them and enter a new bug for Joe
21:13:54 [wendy]: david - please use the following format (so that our minute generator will work) name: (right like that last one)
21:13:55 [David]: gv closed
21:14:11 [Zakim]: -Mike_Barta
21:15:24 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
21:15:38 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=792
21:15:56 [David]: wc: we added definition of vieo only, confident that we addressed issues but will check with reviewers
21:16:11 [David]: gv: issue closed
21:16:34 [David]: gv: issue 793
21:16:41 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=793
21:18:19 [David]: wc: request to clarify complex statemen. in NOv 19 draft we broke it up, we clarified level 1 and level 2 clarified that no real time necessary until level 3, think we are ok now...Andi is reviewer and says ok now
21:18:41 [David]: 980
21:19:12 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=980
21:19:46 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q+
21:20:10 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, unmute me
21:20:10 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
21:20:16 [David]: wc: exception of audio descriptions...extended audio descriptions...
21:20:23 [David]: gv: but reviewers might be off base, cause audio descriptions for "deaf people???
21:21:51 [wendy]: q-
21:22:01 [David]: wc: but we've cleaned up the bulk of the concerns they had so we cleaned up the core, we've fixe it ...they complained that we raised a problem but no solution, but its ok now
21:22:44 [David]: Yvette: I think many people will make the same mistake about audio descriptions, may need to clarify it
21:23:02 [David]: gv: let's say "audio description of video"
21:23:39 [David]: WC: I think its a separate issue, I will ask them...but let's not discuss it now
21:23:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, mute me
21:23:52 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:24:52 [David]: gv: let's say "..of video" to make it simpler...but that's editorial....closed issue and open additional issue "...of video"
21:25:31 [David]: wc: we shouldn't say of video cause that's the definition...people should learn the terms...
21:26:47 [David]: gv: I see it coming up a lot
21:26:48 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, unmute me
21:26:48 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:26:57 [wendy]: ack yvette
21:27:12 [wendy]: ack jason
21:27:27 [David]: yh: in dutch it is confusing
21:27:52 [David]: jw: I think we should add it..does not replace thedefinition
21:27:59 [wendy]: it will now say, "# Audio descriptions of video are provided for prerecorded multimedia "
21:28:37 [David]: gv: closed
21:28:47 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1028
21:30:33 [David]: wc: coallated transcripts...concern of cost and not frequent....in response we put it to level 3...Joe CLark says its not done frequently.. WC says we could check with orgs to see if it is wanted...
21:30:54 [Zakim]: -rellero
21:31:06 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, mute me
21:31:06 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:32:14 [David]: gv: joe clark answered himself ...don't think we should go out and ask...because they will say yes but not might even pay a nickle for it... if we survey we have to find out if they would use it.
21:32:31 [wendy]: ack jason
21:32:34 [Zakim]: +??P8
21:32:37 [rellero]: zakim, ??P8 is rellero
21:32:37 [Zakim]: +rellero; got it
21:32:42 [rellero]: zakim, mute me
21:32:42 [Zakim]: rellero should now be muted
21:33:11 [wendy]: q+
21:33:23 [David]: jw: colated script can be generated by publishing the script of the orginal script which is usualy around
21:33:48 [David]: gv: the reason is final production never looks like original screenplay...editing etc
21:34:16 [David]: gv: no electronic form to match fial available
21:34:28 [David]: fial =final
21:34:48 [wendy]: ack wendy
21:35:02 [David]: wc: audio descritions have their own peotry
21:35:15 [wendy]: zakim, time 1 minutes
21:35:15 [Zakim]: ok, wendy
21:35:24 [wendy]: ack andi
21:35:38 [David]: jw: well maybe we can overcome some problems by using the script anyway even if it is modified post production
21:35:56 [David]: andi: concerned that some contry will legislate it
21:36:17 [wendy]: zakim, stop timing
21:36:18 [Zakim]: ok, wendy
21:36:26 [David]: gv: right- it would be a large hardship and few peple would use it
21:36:42 [achuter]: zakim, mute achuter
21:36:42 [Zakim]: sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter'
21:36:54 [achuter]: zakim, mute Alan_Chuter
21:36:54 [Zakim]: Alan_Chuter should now be muted
21:37:47 [David]: wc: additio al issue about need and desire for colated scripts, should we move it to best practises....if we remove it how will people feel about it.
21:38:45 [wendy]: zakim, who's making noise?
21:38:45 [ben_]: zakim, who is making noise?
21:38:59 [Zakim]: wendy, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Takayuki (96%)
21:39:05 [wendy]: zakim, mute takayuki
21:39:05 [Zakim]: Takayuki should now be muted
21:39:13 [Zakim]: ben_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David (4%), Trace (48%), Wendy (44%)
21:39:29 [David]: gv: create a bug with this quesiton..."is it realy sufficient benefit to be in here but if we take it out,
21:39:34 [nabe]: sorry for making noise :-)
21:39:42 [David]: we love yiu Tak
21:40:14 [nabe]: thank you :-)
21:40:35 [David]: gv: must be careful that we don't infer a higher level
21:40:43 [David]: gv: byremoving it
21:41:09 [David]: wc: lets remove bug and ask how people will take it
21:41:25 [wendy]: q+
21:41:28 [wendy]: ack jason
21:41:28 [David]: jw: shouldn't remove it cause a certain group have it as only access option
21:41:40 [wendy]: q-
21:41:58 [David]: gv: let's postpone by leaving it open
21:42:28 [David]: andi: let's leave it in, was the issue and step back,
21:42:59 [David]: andi: someone else opened issue,
21:43:17 [David]: gv: leave item in a close---closed
21:43:25 [David]: #952
21:44:04 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=952
21:44:26 [David]: wc: should stress that its easy to easily access, but we think its a user issue related to 1.1 but for video, we have not solution yet...perhaps a 1.1 issue
21:44:51 [David]: wc: let's research it more...perhaps a repair technique
21:45:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q+ to say "UAAG?"
21:46:02 [David]: gv: do we extend programatically associated ? if you ave a picture and describe it...is it ok?? related to last week perhaps put on hold and refer to definition of explicit association
21:46:02 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q?
21:46:05 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q-
21:46:05 [David]: #982
21:46:07 [Zakim]: -Chris
21:46:12 [ChrisR]: ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
21:46:16 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=982
21:47:12 [gregg]: +q
21:47:15 [David]: wc: let's take middle grou nd,,, put to general tech because about, how multimedia ineract...if it is a requieremnt let's go level 2 or 3
21:47:18 [gregg]: q+
21:47:24 [wendy]: ack john
21:48:13 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, mute me
21:48:13 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink was already muted, Yvette_Hoitink
21:48:31 [David]: js: can't require it perhaps a recommeded practise
21:48:31 [wendy]: ack gregg
21:49:54 [David]: gv: think wendy is right to go to advisory in general tech or elsewhere. thought we handled it and remove it... you can't make movies where nothing is happening of screen...while people are talking...then we went to training films butit is just to hard to do, that we should require it.
21:50:16 [wendy]: q+
21:50:19 [wendy]: ack andi
21:50:49 [David]: andi: we did cover it and gv summary right and coudn't make it happen and wouldn't work in a sc
21:51:53 [David]: wc: one commentor wanted a requirement for it...so we need to put it somewhere in general,, as a "by the way...." in training films not in real movies
21:52:08 [David]: wc: open new issue
21:52:11 [David]: #983
21:52:44 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=983
21:53:53 [David]: wc: concern of language excluding avatars...seems like the comments refer to general techniques... similar to JIS that tlaks about default font..but different issue
21:54:02 [wendy]: q-
21:54:09 [David]: wc: let's move issue to general or milimedia techs
21:54:13 [gregg]: q+
21:55:00 [David]: js: contrast...some UA support styling of captions, so authors can control that...2) it seems contrast is covered under 1.4
21:55:09 [wendy]: ack john
21:55:10 [wendy]: ack gregg
21:55:42 [David]: gv: we should say cc are controlled by author, it is in HD TV
21:57:39 [David]: gv: we also have guidleines for audio and background sounds, problem about level, audio quality on descriptions is for deaf blind, that we just talked about... perhaps we should put in general... but lets not put in guidelines
21:58:21 [David]: wc: that's what they are asking for---general techniques....let's move issue to Gener techs...default font thing for open captions, not sure how we would specy fonts,
21:58:38 [David]: specy=specify
21:58:58 [David]: wc: less about size than a readable font
21:59:10 [David]: gv: but readable font's is grey area
21:59:59 [David]: gv: move to general techs
22:00:08 [David]: #1057, 1154, 1155
22:00:21 [David]: live audio, video only content
22:01:07 [David]: wc: concernt that wording of coments requires transcpitps a all realtime audio, and concern about webcams
22:01:22 [Zakim]: +??P15
22:02:08 [David]: wc: 19 nov draft clarify that only a description NOT captioning 1.1 level 1#6
22:02:45 [Yvette_Hoitink]: elephant?
22:02:55 [David]: wc: think we've fixed it.. except comment from david polman...who says EVERYTHNG needs an equivalent
22:03:14 [David]: wc: David poleman say Nove 19 not enough
22:04:46 [David]: wc: current wording..."..." destinguish captioning from description...
22:05:06 [David]: gv: new wording OBE
22:05:14 [David]: gv closed
22:05:21 [David]: 1027
22:05:56 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, unmute me
22:05:56 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
22:06:01 [David]: 1057=1027 above
22:06:05 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q+ to ask "what are elephants?"
22:06:20 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1182
22:06:38 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q?
22:07:52 [David]: wc: think we can close issues causes we fixed it in the new wording
22:08:01 [David]: gv: closed
22:08:55 [Yvette_Hoitink]: q-
22:09:05 [ben_]: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1085
22:09:09 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, mute me
22:09:09 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:09:13 [David]: gv: elephants = big broblems need to leanup with a shovel
22:11:41 [David]: wc:1.1, 1.2 whatdo we do,, I did research...seems that flash is example where it would come up. looked at tutorials didn't find audio only interactive and video only interactive is in 1.1...I thin we have everything covered
22:12:09 [gregg]: q+
22:12:14 [David]: wc: propose we don't need, except perhaps .4 using sound inlfash....am I missing somethin???
22:12:27 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, unmute me
22:12:27 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
22:12:28 [David]: js: perhaps in language instructions
22:12:47 [David]: .4 above -1.4
22:13:37 [David]: gv: don't thin 4.2 should be relied on for fundamental stuff like this cause its alternate audio....
22:14:38 [David]: gv: perhaps video and audio should be in the same place....I'm concerned we are two theoretical
22:15:51 [David]: yh: in high school tests, real time...did I say a) b) c) d) we had write it down....
22:16:36 [David]: yh: withdraw example
22:18:12 [David]: gv: wendynright video is covered under 1.1, on the web is it likely that there is audeo without video that is interactive that you need to do NOW.
22:19:10 [David]: ben is that liam talking
22:20:59 [David]: wc: want to see examples...
22:21:31 [David]: giam: perhaps there will be an example sometime..
22:21:50 [wendy]: ack gregg
22:21:58 [David]: wc: propose we close the issue because it is largely theoretical
22:22:36 [David]: gv: lets move to general: if there is an interactive audio ...
22:22:39 [wendy]: ack jason
22:23:32 [Yvette_Hoitink]: Possible example: interactive narrative-based audio only adventure games set in 3D virtual environments
22:23:37 [Yvette_Hoitink]: http://www.cs.unt.edu/~roden/esrg/project_roden_audio.htm
22:23:42 [David]: jw: reaction time tests, I remember basically an audio event, when you hear a sound press a key...today you can provide a visual equivalent
22:23:54 [wendy]: yvette - 3D interface means that it is not audio-only
22:24:22 [David]: giam: propose the someone looks for examples.. I will do it....
22:24:25 [Yvette_Hoitink]: I disagree, Dungeons and Dragons is a game in a 3D environment that you can do audio only
22:24:46 [wendy]: uri?
22:24:54 [Yvette_Hoitink]: I put it in already: http://www.cs.unt.edu/~roden/esrg/project_roden_audio.htm
22:24:56 [Doyle]: I'd like to do this or at least be a part of those who would like to do it as well. I think I know of soem examples I have seen.
22:25:07 [David]: gv: close the bug, but if giam finds one she's reopen it
22:25:23 [Yvette_Hoitink]: zakim, unmute me
22:25:23 [Zakim]: Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
22:25:35 [David]: doyle: I would like to look to
22:26:12 [David]: yh: found a role playing example...
22:26:49 [David]: wc: can caption dialogue ike a video game
22:27:04 [David]: gv: jow could nayone do a transcript
22:27:54 [David]: yh: this is for blind people transcripts are for deaf people
22:28:48 [David]: js: this is audeo only version of something available in visual environment ?
22:30:25 [David]: wc: I will follow up and think about it and propose it...leave it open for the moment, wendy will action
22:30:32 [wendy]: action: wac research yvette's example for 1.2. write proposal
22:31:57 [David]: wc: hairy elephant... questions about when audo description and captions necessary...there is still suggestion that we could do more in scoping or policy makers could take it on..
22:33:12 [David]: wc: we have felt it is for policy makers but we don't have guide for them...we mention scoping but no examples of it... radio shows with interviews andsongs etc difficult
22:33:53 [Zakim]: -Michael
22:34:13 [David]: wc: request someone come up with scoping claims,
22:35:07 [David]: gv: hard to conquer this, can't find good criteria for when it is imortant
22:35:52 [David]: gv: drawing the lines....best we can do is give guideance...if hey have video our scoping means the whole page fails...
22:36:00 [David]: bye GIan
22:36:02 [wendy]: ack john
22:36:03 [Zakim]: -??P15
22:36:03 [David]: gian
22:36:13 [wendy]: ack jas
22:36:22 [achuter]: zakim, unmute Alan_Chuter
22:36:22 [Zakim]: Alan_Chuter should no longer be muted
22:37:01 [wendy]: q+
22:37:11 [David]: jw: i think we can ...if i'm a content developer who doesn't wantot make a miltimedia accessible just wont't include this uri as not covered...
22:37:21 [wendy]: q-
22:37:30 [David]: jw: polcy makers can make the decisions about whenthey can do that
22:37:51 [wendy]: q+
22:38:44 [David]: jw: leave sope entirely.. opposed to complicating SC by introducing policy based exceptions...
22:38:53 [gregg]: q+
22:38:53 [David]: sope above =scope
22:39:59 [ben_]: ack wendy
22:40:43 [David]: wc: don't think scope doesn't totaly handle it...maybe we can do somethin in 1.2 "Miltimedia that doesn't....does not need caption"
22:41:28 [David]: jw: the isue in 1.1 is that some non-text is incidental, not appliciple concept in gide 1.2, I think scoping handles it..
22:42:15 [David]: wc: can you jason write something, want to see examples. don't want to say, my entire web site conforms except for this bit of video..
22:42:54 [David]: gv: i feel also feel we need something in 1.2 but hard to figure out how...
22:43:53 [David]: gv: should leave it open, don't close it on faith that it will be fixed and overcome...
22:44:00 [rellero]: rellero has joined #wai-wcag
22:44:39 [wendy]: action: wac and js propose something for 1.2 that parallels G 1.1, level 1 #4 and/or a scoping example to address issue 1151 (and related issues).
22:44:56 [David]: wc: action to try to fix it or acoing issues to address 1151 and related issues and jason may help on scoping
22:45:11 [David]: gv: thx wendy for hard work
22:45:16 [Zakim]: -Andi
22:45:19 [David]: clappssssss!!!!
22:45:38 [David]: thsx bow
22:45:43 [Zakim]: -Bengt
22:45:49 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
22:45:49 [rellero]: bye
22:45:50 [Zakim]: -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:45:50 [Zakim]: -Yvette_Hoitink
22:45:51 [Zakim]: -Wendy
22:45:52 [Zakim]: -John_Slatin
22:45:54 [Zakim]: -Doyle
22:45:55 [Zakim]: -Trace
22:45:57 [Zakim]: -Alan_Chuter
22:45:58 [nabe]: good bye
22:45:58 [Zakim]: -David
22:45:59 [bengt]: bengt has left #wai-wcag
22:46:00 [Zakim]: -rellero
22:46:07 [Zakim]: -Takayuki
22:46:32 [nabe]: nabe has left #wai-wcag
22:46:41 [wendy]: RRSAgent, make log world
22:46:46 [wendy]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:46:53 [Zakim]: -JasonWhite
22:46:54 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:46:55 [Zakim]: Attendees were John_Slatin, Wendy, Alan_Chuter, David, Trace, [IBM], [IPcaller], Michael, Chris, Andi, rellero, Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Mike_Barta, [ATTcaller], Doyle, Bengt,
22:46:57 [Zakim]: ... Takayuki?, Takayuki, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, [Microsoft]
22:47:40 [wendy]: Present: John_Slatin, Wendy, Alan_Chuter, David, Gregg, Ben, Michael, Chris, Andi, rellero, Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Mike_Barta, Doyle, Bengt, Takayuki, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:47:56 [wendy]: zakim, bye
22:47:56 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #wai-wcag
22:48:32 [wendy]: Chair: Gregg
22:48:55 [wendy]: agenda?
22:48:58 [wendy]: ah, zoinks.
22:54:02 [Andi]: Andi has left #wai-wcag
22:56:13 [wendy]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:00:46 [ben_]: ben_ has left #wai-wcag
23:26:36 [wendy]: RRSAgent, bye
23:26:36 [RRSAgent]: I see 2 open action items:
23:26:36 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: wac research yvette's example for 1.2. write proposal [1]
23:26:36 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/20-wai-wcag-irc#T22-30-32
23:26:36 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: wac and js propose something for 1.2 that parallels G 1.1, level 1 #4 and/or a scoping example to address issue 1151 (and related issues). [2]
23:26:36 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/20-wai-wcag-irc#T22-44-39