15:01:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:13 <Michael> rrsagent, make log world
15:01:42 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
15:01:49 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
15:02:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:12 <Zakim> +Don_Evans
15:02:15 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
15:02:19 <Michael> zakim, [IPcaller is Chris_Ridpath
15:02:19 <Zakim> +Chris_Ridpath; got it
15:02:39 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:48 <Michael> agenda+ Planning for tech plenary
15:02:53 <Zakim> +??P13
15:02:59 <ben> zakim, ??P13 is Ben
15:02:59 <Zakim> +Ben; got it
15:03:06 <Michael> agenda+ Continue assigning techniques from http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/11/19-sc-techniques-mapping.html
15:03:11 <ben> zakim, I am Ben
15:03:11 <Zakim> ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
15:03:15 <Michael> agenda+ Test files
15:03:32 <wendy> wendy has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:47 <wendy> michael - i will be a few minutes late today.
15:03:50 <Michael> ok
15:04:06 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
15:04:26 <Zakim> +Ken_Kipnes
15:04:56 <ken> ken has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:42 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:08:08 <shadi> shadi has joined #wai-wcag
15:08:12 <shadi> zakim, code
15:08:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', shadi
15:08:15 <shadi> zakim, code?
15:08:15 <Zakim> the conference code is 92248 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), shadi
15:08:24 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:08:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:08:50 <Michael> zakim, [IP is Alistair_Garrison
15:08:50 <Zakim> +Alistair_Garrison; got it
15:10:11 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:10:29 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:20 <Michael> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:11:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Continue assigning techniques from http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/11/19-sc-techniques-mapping.html" taken up [from Michael]
15:11:59 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:12:16 <Michael> action: Ben write up stuff from work at Dublin for 2.5.2.1
15:12:23 <DonFEvans> DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
15:13:32 <Zakim> +Wendy
15:15:20 <wendy> bc: Guideline 2.5 - almost all feel like scripting or General.
15:15:30 <wendy> mc: should be something General for all of these.
15:16:06 <wendy> js: maybe next step is for bc to draft more from dublin meeting and send to me or use the tech submission form or...
15:16:37 <Michael> action 1 = Ben write up stuff from work at Dublin for guidelines 2.5 for General Techniques
15:16:41 <wendy> js: aim for inclusion in the february internet draft
15:17:42 <Michael> action: John work on 3.1.3.3
15:17:59 <wendy> ben - fyi notes from general techs discussion at dublin mtg are at: http://jigteam.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/10/f2f-summary.html#Detailed
15:18:07 <wendy> oops, http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/10/f2f-summary.html#Detailed
15:18:24 <wendy> 3.1 - john is working on
15:19:22 <wendy> 3.2.2.2 "All user interface components should be able to receive focus without causing activation."
15:19:36 <wendy> js: assuming need a general technique for everything.
15:19:47 <wendy> js: perhaps a separate agenda item to talk about requirements for general techniques.
15:19:52 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:19:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Chris_Ridpath, Don_Evans, Tim_Boland, Ben, John_Slatin, Ken_Kipnes, Shadi, Alistair_Garrison, Wendy
15:21:30 <Michael> action: Michael do HTML and / or script techniques for 3.2.2.2
15:22:36 <Michael> action: John take 3.2.2.5
15:23:40 <wendy> eep - "text equivalent" shows up in one of those level 3 criterion.
15:24:10 <wendy> that seems to be the only one.
15:24:23 <wendy> (guideline 3.2, level 3 #1)
15:24:48 <Michael> action: John work w/ Joe Clark on 3.2.3.3
15:25:58 <Michael> action: John "borrow" from 508 for 3.2.3.1
15:27:21 <Michael> action: Don take 3.2.3.2
15:32:01 <Michael> action: Michael do HTML tech for 3.2.3.4
15:32:37 <Michael> action: John do general tech for 3.2.3.4
15:34:57 <Michael> action: Ben do general tech for 4.2.1.2
15:39:50 <wendy> for "Users who do not have one or more of these technologies can still access and use the resource, though the experience may be degraded."
15:41:00 <Michael> action: Wendy work with Becky on 4.2.3.2
15:41:39 <wendy> for 4.2.3.2 - reuse techniques and examples that satisfy WCAG 1.0 Checkpoint 6.3 (or lots of guideline 6 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-new-technologies)
15:42:33 <Michael> action: Tim take 4.2.3.3
15:43:00 <wendy> mc: Reminder: lots of people have action items from last call and this call.
15:43:02 <wendy> agenda?
15:43:04 <Michael> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:43:08 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Planning for tech plenary" taken up [from Michael]
15:43:10 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
15:43:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Planning for tech plenary" taken up [from Michael]
15:45:12 <wendy> CSS - if have issues want to discuss, would be good. they may move meeting to the end of the week.
15:46:27 <wendy> "Compound Document Formats Working Group" - PFWG meet with to ask about "alternatives" ala MathML discussion on the list this week.
15:49:24 <wendy> show a face in I18N.  also overlap between i18n and 3.1.
15:49:31 <wendy> synchronized markup - need techs for 1.2
15:53:17 <wendy> mc: like someone sitting in on DIWG, ERT WG, timed text, QA, PFWG  
15:53:23 <wendy> tb: plan to attend QA
15:54:34 <wendy> saz: thursday afternoon, ert likely meeting with eo. friday may be better.
15:54:52 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:54:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Chris_Ridpath, Don_Evans, Tim_Boland, Ben, John_Slatin, Ken_Kipnes, Shadi, Alistair_Garrison, Wendy
15:55:31 <wendy> who will be there all week? michael, john, 
15:55:38 <wendy> chris and don, not likely. 
15:55:51 <wendy> all week: ben, tim, wendy, shadi
15:56:01 <wendy> ken: planning monday,tuesday, wednesday, could try others
15:56:58 <wendy> alistair: planning mtw could probably extend
15:57:14 <wendy> ertwg and wcag wg likely to meet on friday.
15:58:59 <wendy> timed text: michael
15:59:52 <wendy> js: attend eo on thursday
16:00:00 <wendy> bc: uaag on thursday
16:00:35 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
16:01:14 <wendy> js and maybe michael attend i18n geo
16:02:24 <wendy> jenae with QA
16:03:20 <wendy> voice browser - meet with WAI? who do they  mean?
16:03:46 <wendy> will have most of monday/tuesday just ourselves to work on techniques
16:04:10 <wendy> break
16:04:14 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
16:08:54 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
16:10:08 <wendy> agenda?
16:10:33 <Michael> zakim, close agendum 2
16:10:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:10:34 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:35 <Zakim> 1. Planning for tech plenary [from Michael]
16:10:38 <Michael> zakim, close agendum 1
16:10:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
16:10:41 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:10:43 <Zakim> 3. Test files [from Michael]
16:10:47 <Michael> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:10:47 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Test files" taken up [from Michael]
16:14:52 <wendy> mc: by t.p. will have had 2 internal drafts and prepping for public.
16:17:28 <wendy> wac: new things (goals) for next public drafts - test files and checklists.
16:17:58 <wendy> ag: is there a format/wording style for test files? then, if people want to write tests, they could write tests for you.
16:18:15 <wendy> cr: there is a schema. could write a doc that summarizes the format.
16:19:29 <wendy> wac: we could set up a submission form for test files, similar to the one that we have for techniqeus.
16:19:39 <wendy> ag: concern about wording of testable statements.
16:21:20 <wendy> ag: if had applicability condition, then could go through list and easily check if something is applicable or not and get a list of what is applicable or not.
16:21:42 <wendy> ag: e.g., going through general techniques, "does the pg contain a non-text element" using keywords that have been pulled out.
16:22:02 <wendy> ag: this is a basis behind a checklist.
16:22:22 <wendy> ag: then use techniques and test suites that are applicable.
16:22:56 <Zakim> -Don_Evans
16:23:07 <wendy> ag: a paragraph in the techniques, "it is applicable in this condition"
16:23:40 <wendy> mc: test files, checklists - high priorities. general techs, script, css, and html techs. coord with other groups.
16:24:04 <wendy> zakim, take up item 3
16:24:04 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Test files" taken up [from Michael]
16:24:26 <wendy> mc: how we're going to vote on test files.
16:25:08 <wendy> ag: each test should collectively support eh technique, not the SC.
16:25:26 <wendy> cr: each test is mapped to a SC.
16:26:28 <wendy> ag: looking at the mapping you want to achieve (the "end-to-end"). looking that each level supports the level above in terms of testability.
16:26:57 <wendy> ag: if there was a tech for data tables, and collectively answered whether that techniue had been implemented. want to ensure that each test does 100% of what it is intended to do.
16:27:11 <wendy> wac: how determine if 100% or not.
16:27:28 <wendy> ag: need a good idea of what technique is trying to achieve. map test to the testable statements.
16:27:45 <wendy> cr: tests may not cover every SC. some tests may not apply to every technology.
16:27:57 <wendy> cr: don't think we can say that we will fulfill 100% of each SC for every technology.
16:28:10 <wendy> ag: but should be able to split each technique into a variety of testable statements.
16:28:33 <wendy> ag: may not be able to solve automatically, some may need human
16:28:44 <wendy> cr: many of the tests are fitting into how people are evaluating content now.
16:28:52 <wendy> cr: did not systematically work our way down.
16:29:00 <wendy> ag: will need to make changes to test suite to meet in the middle.
16:29:06 <wendy> ag: will need to define each stage carefully.
16:29:16 <wendy> ag: have to do it from the top down since the SC have been written.
16:29:27 <wendy> cr: there may be SC that don't have techniques or test files.
16:29:33 <wendy> ag:not yet, but they will have to exist.
16:29:38 <wendy> cr: yes, but not for every technology.
16:29:45 <wendy> bc: we've talked about covering that issue with the checklist.
16:29:59 <wendy> bc: even if no technique for a technology, the chekclist will include a notation about that.
16:30:16 <wendy> cr: think that css might not have alt-text.
16:30:24 <wendy> bc: right. so a css-checklist couldn't meet the guidelines.
16:30:45 <wendy> bc: if a technology is incapable of meeting a technology, then can't make a wcag 2.0 conformance claim.
16:30:50 <wendy> bc: the checklist should say that.
16:31:41 <wendy> ag: you've got to write techniues for each technology that support a SC 
16:32:45 <wendy> cr: it might map to a SC and SC are mapped to a level, but the level of tecnique and test may not match what in guidelines.
16:32:56 <wendy> q+ to say, "specgl examples"
16:33:27 <Michael> ack wendy
16:33:27 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to say, "specgl examples"
16:36:22 <wendy> bc: have already dont that. have said that some techs are optional.
16:36:44 <wendy> ag: saying "best practice" would confuse people. people only want to see what they have to do, not what would be nice to do.
16:36:53 <wendy> ack john
16:37:44 <wendy> js: thought we had discussed and agreed that the techs would focus on techs that are necessary and sufficient for conformance, or jsut test files?
16:38:06 <wendy> js: think there is slippage between what levels mean in WCAG 2.0 and priorities in WCAG 1.0.
16:38:30 <wendy> js: a level 3 criterion is not something that is less important, it is something that may not apply across all web content.
16:39:23 <wendy> q+ to say, "next sorting - into optional techniques, clearly label. then mark test files as such as well. will need for the checklist."
16:39:38 <wendy> ack wendy
16:39:38 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to say, "next sorting - into optional techniques, clearly label. then mark test files as such as well. will need for the checklist."
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16:40:29 <AliG> q+
16:41:22 <Michael> ack ali
16:42:13 <wendy> action: wendy create questionnaire for techniques. choose required, optional or other (please explain) for each technique.
16:44:24 <wendy> discussion of the meaning of the levels in wcag 2.0
16:45:01 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:45:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Chris_Ridpath, Ben, Ken_Kipnes, Shadi, Alistair_Garrison, Wendy, John_Slatin
16:58:55 <wendy> discussion about how technology-agnostic the general techniques are/should be
17:05:08 <wendy> action: ben, alistair, chris talk about checklists.
17:06:52 <wendy> action: js draft a short requirments for general techniques
17:07:24 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:07:25 <Zakim> -Chris_Ridpath
17:07:26 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
17:07:26 <Zakim> -Wendy
17:07:28 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
17:07:29 <Zakim> -Ken_Kipnes
17:07:34 <Zakim> -Alistair_Garrison
17:07:39 <Zakim> -Ben
17:07:41 <Michael> rrsagent, bye
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> I see 15 open action items:
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben write up stuff from work at Dublin for guidelines 2.5 for General Techniques [1]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-12-16
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John work on 3.1.3.3 [2]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-17-42
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael do HTML and / or script techniques for 3.2.2.2 [3]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-21-30
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John take 3.2.2.5 [4]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-22-36
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John work w/ Joe Clark on 3.2.3.3 [5]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-24-48
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John "borrow" from 508 for 3.2.3.1 [6]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-25-58
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Don take 3.2.3.2 [7]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-27-21
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael do HTML tech for 3.2.3.4 [8]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-32-01
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John do general tech for 3.2.3.4 [9]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-32-37
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben do general tech for 4.2.1.2 [10]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-34-57
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wendy work with Becky on 4.2.3.2 [11]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-41-00
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tim take 4.2.3.3 [12]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T15-42-33
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy create questionnaire for techniques. choose required, optional or other (please explain) for each technique. [13]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T16-42-13
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ben, alistair, chris talk about checklists. [14]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T17-05-08
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: js draft a short requirments for general techniques [15]
17:07:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/12-wai-wcag-irc#T17-06-52
17:07:46 <AliG> AliG has left #wai-wcag