18:56:37 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 18:56:40 Zakim has joined #swbp 18:56:59 Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG 18:57:02 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0089.html 18:57:07 Previous: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0087.html 18:57:11 ChrisW has joined #swbp 18:58:59 tbaker has joined #swbp 18:59:21 SW_BPD()2:00PM has now started 18:59:28 +Evan_Wallace 18:59:40 +Ralph 19:00:07 +Tom_Baker 19:00:18 +Tom_Baker.a (was Tom_Baker) 19:00:22 dgovoni has joined #swbp 19:02:21 +??P7 19:02:28 +[IBM] 19:02:43 zakim, ??p7 is Jeff_Pan 19:02:43 +Jeff_Pan; got it 19:02:45 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily ChrisW 19:02:46 +ChrisW; got it 19:03:12 +Guus_Schreiber 19:03:37 JeffP has joined #swbp 19:04:14 +??P12 19:04:19 Regrets: TomA, Phil 19:04:23 zakim, ??p12 is Alistair 19:04:23 +Alistair; got it 19:04:35 +Darren_Govoni 19:04:46 zakim, who is her? 19:04:46 I don't understand your question, guus. 19:04:53 +??P14 19:05:01 zakim, ??p14 is Natasha 19:05:01 +Natasha; got it 19:05:02 Natasha has joined #swbp 19:05:19 aliman has joined #swbp 19:06:02 +Alistair_Miles (was Alistair) 19:06:26 Regrets+ Brian, Libby, DanBri, Lars Marius, Fabien, Marco 19:07:06 ekw has joined #swbp 19:07:54 i can scribe 19:08:37 +??P16 19:08:43 zakim, who is here? 19:08:43 On the phone I see Evan_Wallace, Ralph, Tom_Baker, Jeff_Pan, ChrisW, Guus_Schreiber, Alistair_Miles, Darren_Govoni, Natasha, ??P16 19:08:45 On IRC I see ekw, aliman, Natasha, JeffP, dgovoni, tbaker, ChrisW, Zakim, RRSAgent, guus, Ralph 19:08:46 zakim, ??p16 is Jeremey 19:08:46 +Jeremey; got it 19:09:48 Last call before changing to new telecon times 19:09:49 zakim, jeremey is really Jeremy 19:09:49 +Jeremy; got it 19:09:57 minutes of 02 dec http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0087.html 19:10:03 Propose to accept minutes 19:10:04 jjc has joined #swbp 19:10:27 Ralph: two updates. I recorded my regrets in log. 19:10:43 Also, telecon times shouuld include date. 19:10:59 Dan Govoni: was in Boston forgot to send regrets. 19:11:48 Jeremy: not enough review time for minutes, propose to leave for next telecon 19:12:00 Guus: next telecon: 1800 UTC schedule starting Jan 13 19:12:08 No telecon Dec 30 19:12:16 Then keep to two-wk sched. 19:12:29 Carried 19:12:35 Agenda amendments? 19:12:43 zakim, take up agendum 1 19:12:45 agendum 1. "Administrivia" taken up [from Ralph] 19:13:07 zakim, close this agendum 19:13:10 agendum 1 closed 19:13:10 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:13:11 2. Action Item Review [from Ralph] 19:13:11 +??P17 19:13:12 zakim, next agendum 19:13:12 agendum 2. "Action Item Review" taken up [from Ralph] 19:13:17 Action item review (item 2) 19:13:20 zakim, ??p17 is Mike_Uschold 19:13:20 +Mike_Uschold; got it 19:13:58 ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list 19:14:00 -- continued 19:14:03 ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible 19:14:07 -- continued 19:14:33 s/continued/ 19:14:38 action 1 - carry 19:14:50 Ralph: I asked Phil if the SE TF really wants a separate mailing list, I proposed they use the [SE] tag 19:15:00 MIkeU has joined #swbp 19:15:20 ralph action: dropped, task force can raise again if needed 19:15:30 ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF 19:15:59 -- completed 19:16:00 ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF 19:16:04 -- completed 19:16:13 phil action completed 19:16:17 ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon 19:16:29 phil SETF action completed 19:16:30 ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD 19:16:50 david to help alistair - carry forward 19:16:52 MikeU has joined #swbp 19:17:14 ACTION: guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS 19:17:23 DONE; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0020.html 19:17:28 ACTION: Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for Wordnet document to be good enough 19:17:38 pepper has joined #swbp 19:17:46 brian and danbri action carried 19:17:49 ACTION: Jeremy Clarify which parts of UML docs HP is most interested in reviewing 19:17:56 jeremy clarify carried forward 19:18:02 ACTION: ralph contact steve pemberton to clarify html wg's position on inclusion of rdf/a in their last call wd. 19:18:23 s/steve/steven/ 19:18:30 +Mike_Uschold.a (was Mike_Uschold) 19:18:31 ralph contact: ralph talked with stephen pemberton 19:18:50 as of dec 2, html wg was holding last working draft for publication 19:19:00 until including rdf-a in last draft 19:19:05 holding til complete that work 19:19:19 not seen official communication, but so told 19:19:33 ACTION: Ralph take up TAG-SWBP agenda CG tomorrow 19:19:33 ralph action completed 19:19:53 ralph tag-swbp action 19:20:03 we talked about it at cg 19:20:08 action is probably completed 19:20:15 not sure if tag can meet with us 19:20:52 httpRange-14 19:20:53 ralph hopes tag will want to consult with bp on http range 19:21:20 ralph: consider this completed 19:21:48 ralph: whether message from tag was an offer to meet with us as body 19:21:59 or meet with other wgs individually 19:22:03 apparently more the latter 19:22:24 not impossible to meet as group, but rep more likely 19:22:58 steve pepper had asked whether we could have 4 days of meeting time at tech plenary 19:23:09 meeting planners say there is not sufficient meeting-room space 19:23:18 only for thu-fri of the tech plenary week 19:23:26 but we will have one of the biggest rooms 19:23:41 sw ig will meet mon-tue 19:23:54 danbri wants to split swig tue-thu 19:24:07 swig should not conflict with other meetings 19:24:29 -Jeremy 19:24:36 wed is "real plenary day" 19:24:39 DanBri's Tue-Thu split for swig was so that it not completely overlap DAWG or SWBPD 19:24:48 Qst: what is SWIG? 19:24:56 used to be RDF interest group 19:25:14 generally a place for users and developers (mostly) of RDF and OWL and rule languages 19:25:23 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ 19:25:27 spinoff activities, task forces 19:25:31 ^Semantic Web Activity 19:25:36 FOAF work is related to it 19:25:36 + +47.23.23.aaaa 19:25:40 s/Activity/Interest Group 19:25:46 s/Activity/Interest Group/ 19:25:56 zakim, aaaa is Steve_Pepper 19:25:56 +Steve_Pepper; got it 19:27:12 3.1 OEP - skip.... 19:27:20 3.2 PORT - alistair 19:27:22 zakim, move to next agendum 19:27:22 agendum 3. "TF Updates" taken up [from Ralph] 19:27:32 proposes that tomorrow or ASAP we turn the SKOS core guide and specs 19:27:37 into first working drafts 19:27:39 http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/guide/2004-11-25.html 19:28:02 guus: needs to be on agenda 19:28:09 non-TF members need to review it 19:28:24 alistair: they are almost in position to be 1st working drafts 19:28:31 guus: start soliciting reviewers 19:28:38 wie will take decision on jan 13 19:28:47 solicit reviewers from within working group 19:28:57 from that we get a proposal for publication 19:29:04 and that is then on agenda of a WG telecon (or F2F) 19:29:19 +??P18 19:29:21 then we take decision, taking reviews into account 19:29:22 http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/spec/ 19:29:29 zakim, ??p18 is Jeremy 19:29:29 +Jeremy; got it 19:29:29 we have four weeks to organize review 19:29:41 ralph: reviewers yet? 19:29:45 alistair: not yet 19:29:59 ralph: ideally outside reviewers 19:30:09 outside the TF, that is 19:30:26 guus: someone who has done thesauri conversion 19:30:31 (we presume the TF has consensus before proposing to the WG) 19:30:42 proposes mark [fanossom] as reviewer 19:30:53 Mark on behalf of Guus 19:31:26 guus has joined #swbp 19:31:41 propose Mark van Assem as reviewer for PORT WD 19:32:10 alistair: working draft: skos core spec and skos core guide 19:32:19 spec is a namespace doc, overview of vocabulary 19:32:37 spec aims to provide summary of each term - definition, comments, domains/ranges 19:32:49 spec generated from underlying definition of skos core vocabulary 19:32:56 a human-readable version of skos core 19:33:04 guide is human-readable intro - how to use it 19:33:12 features of vocabulary, with examples 19:33:25 last telecon: make accessible to non-RDF people 19:33:35 but that was nearly impossible to write - would have been extremely long 19:33:45 rather: restrict scope to people who basically understand RDF 19:33:59 then if we want to present porting issues, do in separate doc that 19:34:06 explains basic concepts 19:34:17 from there, we can look at developing add'nl method notes 19:34:26 guus: quick start guide in working draft? 19:34:34 alistair: yes, fine 19:34:44 "quick guide to publishing thes on SW" 19:35:00 wouyld be happy for review of quick guide too 19:35:25 1) namespace; 2) core guide; 3) guide to publish controlled vocabs (not yet written) 19:35:37 in this review: a, b, and c 19:35:43 (refer to email) 19:35:59 guus: problem of lost messages? 19:36:08 ralph: all messages sent to list are now in archive. 19:36:20 there was a delay, but AFAIK nothing lost 19:36:23 PORT TF docs summary in message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0024.html 19:36:34 guus: need one more reviewer 19:36:42 preferably outside task force 19:37:06 tom baker volunteers 19:37:18 DeborahM has joined #swbp 19:37:37 suggested timeline: send email to list with suggested TL (guus) 19:37:50 should be done in 1-2 weeks? 19:37:58 alistair: reviewed by next telecon? 19:38:02 +Deb_McGuinness 19:38:13 guus: if jan 13, then by monday of that week reviews should be done 19:38:16 [hmm. Alistair thinks his message of 24 Nov was lost from archive; I will research that] 19:38:21 guus: provide the docs after this telecon 19:38:25 guus has joined #swbp 19:38:31 i am on on phone and irc now - Deborah McGuinness 19:38:49 guusS has joined #swbp 19:39:18 action: alistair send timeline to list 19:39:47 Topic: OEP TF Update 19:40:07 Mike: OEP had a telecon last Thursday 19:40:13 ... updated TF Web page 19:40:31 ... Alan Rector has taken over editorship of simple PartOf note 19:40:55 ... expect some new drafts before year-end for circulation w/in TF 19:41:04 ... no change on units & measures 19:41:20 ... waiting for ISI AC Rep to nominate Jerry Hobbs & student for WG participation 19:42:03 ... discussed whether UML work should be done in SE TF or OEP TF; we agreed it didn't matter where it was done 19:42:27 ... happy to keep UML work in OEP as it is a modelling language, but will move if SE really wants it 19:43:31 guusSc has joined #swbp 19:43:36 ACTION: Ralph contact Elisa Kendall re: editorship & W3C Membership 19:44:07 guus: message from people who have developed units and measures ontology 19:44:16 group from technology for agriculture, web site 19:44:24 url is on the list 19:46:00 ralph: might have been delayed for permission to post to public list - handshake system 19:46:12 makes people aware their email address will be public 19:46:26 so this message should appear later 19:46:39 ralph: "archive approval queue" 19:47:07 it has now been forwarded to list 19:47:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0093.html 19:47:33 "UnitDim: an ontology of physical units and quantities 19:47:48 From Rijgersberg, Hajo 19:48:33 Deb: draft for time hasn't been circulated because of author membership questions 19:48:42 draft is here: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~ferguson/daml/ 19:49:33 Deb: discussion of N-ary doc: interest in updates, postings from Peter to our list 19:50:02 Skipping Wordnet 19:50:07 3.4 Datatypes 19:50:34 Jeremy: we have version of doc with only one add-at 19:50:40 not seen any review comments 19:50:46 question: what next? 19:50:51 guusSch has joined #swbp 19:51:00 s/add-at/@@TODO 19:51:38 possible reviewers: assign WG reviewers and invite other groups to make informal comments 19:52:14 jeremy: the other WGs I have in mind: DAWG, XSLT, Xquery, XML schema, maybe Webont and RDFcore 19:52:22 because this note is a comment on their recommendations 19:52:40 guus: need at least one reviewer from this group 19:53:01 guus: volunteers? 19:53:04 evan volunteers 19:53:25 mikeU has joined #swbp 19:53:42 evan will do before next telecon 19:54:07 jeremy: other groups would need time to review 19:54:15 so implies we would publish after tech plenary 19:54:22 we ask evan to do after next telecon? 19:55:06 s/after/before/ 19:55:18 ACTION: evan reviews... 19:56:45 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0088.html 19:56:53 "next steps on datatypes" 19:57:40 Topic: VM TF Update 19:57:52 TomB: everyone is supposed to be putting their input into the wiki or sending to TomB 19:58:06 ... I have been in touch with everyone who has actions to input material 19:58:16 ... I have some outside material on PRISM to work in 19:58:44 ... had problems with the wiki being vandalized; some parts of the draft disappeared, but this might have been accidental rather than vandal 19:59:16 ... several important contributions have not yet arrived 19:59:36 ... the original timeline is therefore slipping 19:59:47 ... hope the major pieces will be in place by the end of the year 20:00:03 ... by Jan 5 hope to be where I was hoping to have been on Dec 6 20:00:22 ... next plan is to move draft from the wiki and massage into a more readable draft for discussion 20:01:02 ... have gotten some materials and some convincing promises for other material 20:01:39 Guus: consider seeking other volunteers for the material you want 20:02:11 TomB: the people who have the actions now are talking about particular areas of their expertise 20:02:34 ... Jim Hendler has volunteered to contribute even though he has removed himself from the WG 20:02:46 ... I am confident that the material is coming, just late 20:03:07 ... reality is that the deadlines have slipped 20:03:26 ... had hoped to have all this before the holidays so the rough draft would have been available 20:03:48 ... new realistic goal is to have draft before 13 Jan telecon 20:04:00 3.6 rdf-inhtml 20:04:20 guus: syntax will be included in final draft (probably) 20:04:55 steve pemberton reported that last draft on mark's plate 20:05:06 guus: dan says no news from html wg 20:05:16 s/dan/BenA/ 20:05:22 3.7 adtf - ongoing effort... 20:05:28 3.8 topic map task force 20:05:55 steve: good progress. 20:06:02 survey of RDF/TM interop 20:06:14 second deliverable: guidelines 20:06:22 preparing test cases for using in preparing those guidelines 20:06:32 at moment, fairly complete editors' drafts 20:06:41 hope to announce to wg as whole in early january 20:06:55 feedback welcome, especially on direction taking 20:07:06 we are creating docs on wiki 20:07:11 http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/RDFTM/DraftSurvey 20:07:11 http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/RDFTM/TestCases 20:07:35 steve will send email as well 20:07:48 goal: something "complete enough" in early January 20:08:05 ACTION: ralph add links to TF description 20:08:18 specifically, RDFTM Wiki links 20:08:43 steve: interested in press release - a WG issue, or elsewhere? 20:09:03 guus: something to consider when publishing working draft 20:09:09 steve: hopefully mid-January 20:09:33 guus: at publication of working draft, " " of final note 20:09:49 guus: for either Jan 13 or Jan 27 telecon 20:10:07 3.9 Tutorial - 20:10:13 3.10 Software Engineering 20:10:21 guus: main issue is participants 20:10:39 status of potential participants 20:11:22 ralph will send link to invited expert policy 20:13:56 q+ 20:14:33 jeff: web page as further action in TF? 20:14:46 considering setting up new web page on applications and topics 20:15:04 and uses of ontologies in software engineering 20:15:16 ralph: sounds like what demos TF doing 20:16:26 guus: evan, deadline? Jan 10. So next telecon can discuss. 20:16:51 Jeff: meeting on Jan 31 about 20:17:04 ODM draft document deadline: Jan 10 20:17:12 Meeting to discuss comments is Jan 31 20:18:07 Jeff, http://www.w3.org/2004/08/invexp.html has some information about W3C invited expert process 20:19:27 closing the call... 20:19:59 steve: non-W3C non-invited-experts from orgs with which W3C has official liaison 20:20:14 Does anyone know what days our F2F will be held in Boston? 20:20:54 ralph, for example, working group can have liaison with ISO 20:21:44 working-group-to-technical-committee basis 20:24:38 adjourned... pleasant holidays... 20:24:40 bye bye all! 20:24:49 -Darren_Govoni 20:24:49 bye :-) 20:24:50 -Evan_Wallace 20:24:51 -Steve_Pepper 20:24:51 -ChrisW 20:24:52 -Natasha 20:24:52 -Guus_Schreiber 20:24:53 -Mike_Uschold.a 20:24:54 -Jeff_Pan 20:24:56 -Jeremy 20:25:03 rrsagent, pointer? 20:25:03 See http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T20-25-03 20:25:05 -Alistair_Miles 20:25:17 rrsagent, make log world 20:25:39 -Deb_McGuinness 20:29:01 -Ralph 20:30:35 -Tom_Baker 20:30:36 SW_BPD()2:00PM has ended 20:30:37 Attendees were Evan_Wallace, Ralph, Tom_Baker, Jeff_Pan, ChrisW, Guus_Schreiber, Darren_Govoni, Natasha, Alistair_Miles, Jeremy, Mike_Uschold, +47.23.23.aaaa, Steve_Pepper, 20:30:39 ... Deb_McGuinness 20:30:48 rrsagent, bye 20:30:48 I see 15 open action items: 20:30:48 ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list [1] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-13-58 20:30:48 ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible [2] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-14-03 20:30:48 ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF [3] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-15-30 20:30:48 ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF [4] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-16-00 20:30:48 ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon [5] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-16-17 20:30:48 ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD [6] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-16-30 20:30:48 ACTION: guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS [7] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-17-14 20:30:48 ACTION: Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for Wordnet document to be good enough [8] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-17-28 20:30:48 ACTION: Jeremy Clarify which parts of UML docs HP is most interested in reviewing [9] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-17-49 20:30:48 ACTION: ralph contact steve pemberton to clarify html wg's position on inclusion of rdf/a in their last call wd. [10] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-18-02 20:30:48 ACTION: Ralph take up TAG-SWBP agenda CG tomorrow [11] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-19-33 20:30:48 ACTION: alistair send timeline to list [12] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-39-18 20:30:48 ACTION: Ralph contact Elisa Kendall re: editorship & W3C Membership [13] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-43-36 20:30:48 ACTION: evan reviews... [14] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T19-55-18 20:30:48 ACTION: ralph add links to TF description [15] 20:30:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/16-swbp-irc#T20-08-05