14:31:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:58 <Yoshio> zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:31:58 <Zakim> ok, Yoshio; the call is being made
14:31:59 <Zakim> +Yoshio
14:32:03 <DanC> Zakim, agenda?
14:32:03 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
14:32:04 <Zakim> 1. Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0463.html [from DanC]
14:32:07 <Zakim> 2. XML Results format [from DanC]
14:32:08 <Zakim> 3. Protocol Spec [from DanC]
14:32:09 <Zakim> 4. Services [from DanC]
14:32:10 <Zakim> 5. Test suite maintenance, syntax comments
14:32:11 <Zakim> 6. Testing Values [from DanC]
14:32:12 <Zakim> 7. SPARQL SOURCE Issue [from DanC]
14:32:47 <AndyS> Eric - can we talk about the tutorial after the call to plan a meeting w/ Dave and Steve
14:33:03 <ericP> andy, sure
14:33:15 <kendall> (damn, get my phone line fixed, and the tele-vultures descend immediately)
14:33:15 <DanC> (wondering where Janne is)
14:33:29 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, DanC, HPbrs, Yoshio, Simon_Raboczi, Farrukh_Najmi, Kevin, Kendall_Clark
14:33:31 <Zakim> HPbrs has AndyS, DaveB
14:33:33 <Zakim> +PatH
14:33:54 <ericP> zakim, take up next agendum
14:33:54 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0463.html" taken up [from DanC]
14:34:00 <Zakim> +SteveH
14:34:38 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
14:34:38 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
14:34:40 <ericP> meeting record http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0463.html APPROVED
14:35:30 <DanC> Yoshio, would you prefer to meet or not meet on 21 Dec?
14:35:58 <Yoshio> Either will do
14:36:42 <ericP> next meeting: 21-Dec
14:36:47 <ericP> scribe: SimonR
14:37:26 <Yoshio> Jan 4th? I prefer not holding a meeting
14:37:54 <kendall> 28th and 4th are both good for me, ironically
14:38:08 <SimonR> I can do the 28th and the 4th as well.
14:38:15 <SteveH> I can do 6th
14:38:49 <Yoshio> * My telephone environment is awful tonight, so if you want my exact answer, please ask on irc (^ ^;)
14:38:51 <ericP> subsequent meeeting: 11-Dec
14:39:03 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:39:06 <ericP> subsequent meeeting scribe: SteveH
14:39:31 <DanC> RESOLVED: to cxl 28 Dec, 4 Jan
14:39:40 <Zakim> +JosD
14:40:21 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:40:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "XML Results format" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:50 <ericP> ACTION: DanC owner of issue 'yes or no questions' (was pending protocol doc) CONTINUED
14:40:59 <ericP> ACTION: SteveH own (i.e. propose resolution to) disjunction issue CONTINUED
14:41:15 <ericP> ACTION: EricP migrate some Algae UnionDisjunciton test cases CONTINUED
14:41:35 <ericP> ACTION EricP: find logistics re F2F5 at tech plenary in Boston March 28 Feb - 4 Mar (2 days). Some WG preference to Mon/Tue of that week. CONTINUED
14:41:49 <ericP> ACTION: DaveB to write an XML result format
14:41:55 <ericP> DONE
14:43:09 <DanC> simon re results http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0475.html
14:43:11 <Yoshio> * yoshio will be dropped of for a while: let me retry telephone connection (it's so awful)
14:43:20 <ericP> ACTION: AndyS to review Dave's XML result set format
14:43:23 <ericP> DONE
14:43:33 <Zakim> -Yoshio
14:43:35 <ericP> ACTION: SteveH to review Dave's XML result set format
14:43:54 <DanC> action -6
14:44:00 <DanC> action -5
14:44:06 <Zakim> +Yoshio
14:44:35 <ericP> SteveH, do you plan to write a review?
14:44:48 <ericP> ie, shall i continue the action item?
14:45:06 <DanC> (I was about to say that Steve's brief report discharges his action to my satisfaction and ask for different opinions)
14:45:15 <ericP> DONE
14:45:25 <ericP> (maybe jumping the gun here...)
14:45:25 <Yoshio> zakim, drop Yoshio-home
14:45:25 <Zakim> sorry, Yoshio, I do not see a party named 'Yoshio-home'
14:45:31 <Yoshio> zakim, drop Yoshio
14:45:31 <Zakim> Yoshio is being disconnected
14:45:32 <Zakim> -Yoshio
14:45:49 <Yoshio> zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:45:49 <Zakim> ok, Yoshio; the call is being made
14:45:50 <Zakim> +Yoshio
14:46:57 <ericP> PROPOSE to publish XML result set
14:47:22 <ericP> Abstentions from PatH and SimonR
14:47:25 <ericP> RESOLVED
14:47:38 <ericP> ACTION EricP: publish XML result set document
14:48:30 <ericP> XML result set document is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/
14:48:32 <DanC> ACTION Simon: counter-propose something re unbound results
14:48:46 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:48:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Protocol Spec" taken up [from DanC]
14:49:20 <kendall> heavy breather
14:49:36 <ericP> ACTION: KendallC to publish "SPARQL Protocol for RDF" pending approval from TomA and AndyS
14:49:50 <DanC> Zakim, mute PatH temporarily
14:49:51 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
14:50:05 <Zakim> PatH should now be unmuted again
14:50:09 <DanC> Zakim, mute PatH
14:50:09 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
14:51:11 <ericP> CONTINUED
14:52:07 <ericP> agenda?
14:52:23 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:52:23 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Services" taken up [from DanC]
14:54:14 <ericP> ACTION: KendallC expose our walking tour data to SPARQL querying clients
14:54:18 <ericP> CONTINUED
14:56:04 <ericP> Kendall: someone from NASA (Florida) showing interest in SPARQL and RDF
14:56:17 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:56:17 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Test suite maintenance, syntax comments" taken up
14:56:20 <ericP> ... interested in interop festival in July or Aug
14:56:42 <SimonR> That's intersect with my travel plans for F2F5, in all likelihood.  Great!
14:56:48 <ericP> ACTION: SteveH is willing to adapt his testing infrastructure to generate input/output RDF/XML and typed nodes into manifest file
14:57:10 <ericP> CONTINUED -- waiting (short term) on a Jena release
14:57:35 <ericP> ACTION EricP: make sure all dawg tests are world-readable now and going forward
14:58:15 <ericP> DONE
14:58:24 <ericP> action - 13
14:58:51 <ericP> ACTION EricP: come up with a specification for the "non-XML" syntax (may be turtle)
14:58:56 <ericP> DONE (by dave)
14:59:05 <ericP> action - 14
14:59:25 <ericP> DanC: inclined to release Turtle with test suite
14:59:35 <ericP> DaveB: prefer separate document
15:00:30 <ericP> KendallC: what's the hard part?
15:00:38 <ericP> DanC: shopping around the AC
15:00:50 <SimonR> Theoretically, CONSTRUCT is sort of an RDF serialization syntax...
15:00:51 <ericP> KendallC: would like to see it separate
15:01:08 <ericP> AndyS: let's not separate it now
15:01:19 <kendall> Simon: yep
15:01:26 <ericP> ... consider with other charter amendments
15:01:37 <ericP> DanC: let's noodle on this for a week
15:01:57 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-001 $Revision: 1.32 $
15:02:53 <ericP> ACTI^H^H^H SteveH has updated the above document
15:03:08 <DanC> Fwd: SPARQL: graph syntax should be N3 subset Tom Adams (Tuesday, 30 November) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0387.html
15:04:45 <ericP> ACTION: EricP to deal with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0387.html, perhaps by proposing something to the WG.
15:06:32 <SimonR> SteveH observes that one of the approved tests (2a?) includes the optional commas in the SELECT clause.
15:10:15 <kendall> URI?
15:10:18 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-2-4a
15:11:33 <DanC> Kendall: I prefer required commas ala ?name, ?mbox
15:11:49 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:11:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, DanC, HPbrs, Yoshio, Simon_Raboczi, Farrukh_Najmi, Kevin, Kendall_Clark, PatH (muted), SteveH, JosD
15:11:51 <Zakim> HPbrs has AndyS, DaveB
15:12:09 <DanC> ericp: not opt, not present
15:12:20 <DanC> danc: required
15:12:26 <DanC> yoshio?
15:12:40 <DanC> simon: not opt, not present
15:12:55 <Zakim> -Farrukh_Najmi
15:13:03 <DanC> kendall: required
15:13:08 <DanC> ack path
15:13:10 <FarrukhNajmi> abstain. sorry I got disconnected
15:13:23 <DanC> pat: optional, but if not opt, not present
15:13:27 <DanC> Zakim, mute path
15:13:27 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
15:13:35 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
15:13:38 <SimonR> (Does that make any sense?)
15:13:44 <kendall> wow
15:13:45 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: EricP (15%), DanC (65%), Yoshio (70%)
15:13:51 <Zakim> +Farrukh_Najmi
15:13:52 <DanC> Zakim, mute yoshio
15:13:52 <Zakim> Yoshio should now be muted
15:14:04 <Yoshio> ok
15:14:12 <DanC> Steve: not opt
15:14:25 <DanC> JosD: not opt
15:14:41 <DanC> no commas
15:14:51 <DanC> andy: not opt, not present
15:14:58 <DanC> dave: not opt, not present
15:15:45 <kendall> it's NOT a consensus, FWIW
15:16:05 <DanC> editors lean for not opt, not present
15:16:34 <DanC> ACTION DaveB: propose replacement for tests that have ?foo, ?Bar
15:18:04 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:18:04 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Testing Values" taken up [from DanC]
15:18:35 <AndyS> DaveB notes action is for all tests
15:18:48 <DanC> actions by ericp, simonR done
15:19:05 <DanC> danc: which way do the editors lean?
15:19:37 <DanC> ericp: seems safer not to allow value testing in the graph pattern, given some reluctance and unknowns
15:20:14 <DanC> andys: syntax is separable from graph matching...
15:20:18 <Zakim> -PatH
15:20:29 <DanC> (bummer; meant to ask about PatH about this)
15:20:41 <DanC> AndyS: re semantics, relates to D-entailments
15:23:09 <DanC> ACTION SimonR: propose test case for scalar constraint with syntax uniform to graph constraints. CONTINUES.
15:23:37 <DanC> Simon: I'm mostly taking stuff out. Andys: I think you put a lot in... [bnodes?]
15:26:19 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:26:19 <Zakim> agendum 7. "SPARQL SOURCE Issue" taken up [from DanC]
15:27:03 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/
15:27:18 <JosD> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/query-9.1.rq
15:27:35 <DanC> AndyS: I couldn't confirm those results
15:27:46 <DanC> Dave: I no longer prefer that design. now prefer "untrusted graphs"
15:28:04 <FarrukhNajmi> I need to drop off due to another meeting. My apologies for the spotty participation. cu
15:28:14 <FarrukhNajmi> thanks
15:28:27 <Zakim> -Farrukh_Najmi
15:28:32 <FarrukhNajmi> FarrukhNajmi has left #dawg
15:28:32 <SteveH> theres a typo on line 12 of result-9.1.n3
15:28:53 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:28:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, DanC, HPbrs, Yoshio (muted), Simon_Raboczi, Kevin, Kendall_Clark, SteveH, JosD
15:28:55 <Zakim> HPbrs has AndyS, DaveB
15:29:36 <Yoshio> I missed the question, sorry
15:29:40 <DanC> yoshio, what do you prefer we do about SOURCE? get rid of it? use Andy's "untrusted graphs" design? other?
15:30:24 <Yoshio> I prefer SOURCE remain
15:31:01 <SimonR> If anything, I object to the fuzziness involved in making FROM advisory.  It should be rigorous.
15:32:24 <ericP> ericP has joined #dawg
15:32:30 <Yoshio> tracking provenance and data federation is so important 
15:32:52 <DanC> (yes, it's so important that we should take our time and get it right and not rush it in v1, for my money)
15:33:28 <Yoshio> (for your money??) 
15:33:37 <DanC> ( in my opinion)
15:33:51 <SimonR> +q
15:34:00 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0421.html
15:34:11 <AndyS> (examples)
15:34:58 <DanC> ACTION DaveB: update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/ w.r.t http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0421.html
15:35:05 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0373.html
15:35:10 <AndyS> The proposal
15:35:19 <DanC> ACTION: JanneS propose text for hard failure in the protocol draft
15:35:21 <Yoshio> simon, it is "q+"
15:35:37 <SimonR> Yoshio: thanks.  :)
15:36:06 <DanC> ACTION: DanC suggest formal definitions for SOURCE. CONTINUES
15:37:37 <Zakim> +PatH
15:38:26 <ericP> SimonR: we could publish the document without source but making (reasonably) sure that we leave room for it
15:39:03 <ericP> DanC: end of agenda. IRC log will serve as meeting record unless someone wants to do otherwise
15:39:04 <DanC> ADJOURN.
15:39:34 <Zakim> -JosD
15:39:37 <Yoshio> moi moi
15:39:38 <SteveH> AndyS, ericP, are we going to talk about the workshop?
15:39:39 <DanC> PatH: do patterns have bnodes? AndyS: no.
15:39:56 <SteveH> aye, tutorial
15:39:57 <Zakim> -Yoshio
15:40:01 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:42:15 <Zakim> -DanC
15:42:25 <Zakim> -Kevin
15:42:28 <Zakim> -Simon_Raboczi
15:42:34 <Zakim> -PatH
15:43:35 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:43:38 <DanC> RRSAgent, bye
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> I see 16 open action items:
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC owner of issue 'yes or no questions' (was pending protocol doc) CONTINUED [1]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-40-50
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveH own (i.e. propose resolution to) disjunction issue CONTINUED [2]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-40-59
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP migrate some Algae UnionDisjunciton test cases CONTINUED [3]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-41-15
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to find logistics re F2F5 at tech plenary in Boston March 28 Feb - 4 Mar (2 days). Some WG preference to Mon/Tue of that week. CONTINUED [4]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-41-35
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveH to review Dave's XML result set format [7]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-43-35
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to publish XML result set document [8]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-47-38
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Simon to counter-propose something re unbound results [9]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-48-32
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to publish "SPARQL Protocol for RDF" pending approval from TomA and AndyS [10]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-49-36
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC expose our walking tour data to SPARQL querying clients [11]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-54-14
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveH is willing to adapt his testing infrastructure to generate input/output RDF/XML and typed nodes into manifest file [12]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T14-56-48
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to deal with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0387.html, perhaps by proposing something to the WG. [15]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-04-45
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DaveB to propose replacement for tests that have ?foo, ?Bar [16]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-16-34
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SimonR to propose test case for scalar constraint with syntax uniform to graph constraints. CONTINUES. [17]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-23-09
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DaveB to update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/ w.r.t http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0421.html [18]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-34-58
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JanneS propose text for hard failure in the protocol draft [19]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-35-19
15:43:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC suggest formal definitions for SOURCE. CONTINUES [20]
15:43:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/14-dawg-irc#T15-36-06