IRC log of swbp on 2004-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:04:27 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swbp
15:05:18 [DavidW]: Zakim and RRSAgent are now active; please try again
15:05:30 [DavidW]: zakim, who is here?
15:05:30 [Zakim]: sorry, DavidW, I don't know what conference this is
15:05:31 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Fabien, ChrisW, aharth, pepper, DavidW, aliman, JeffP, Benjamin, Tbaker, PhilT
15:05:53 [Benjamin]: Just to say I don't have telephone access today, so I'll only be on IRC
15:05:57 [DavidW]: zakim, list conferences
15:05:57 [Zakim]: I see HTML_XForms()10:00AM, SW_BPD()10:00AM, W3C_AC(*Boston)8:30AM active
15:05:59 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are Team_Global(review)8:00AM, SVG_WG()9:00AM, MM_MMI(environ)10:00AM
15:06:09 [DavidW]: zakim, this is SW_BPD
15:06:09 [Zakim]: ok, DavidW; that matches SW_BPD()10:00AM
15:06:14 [DavidW]: zakim, who is here?
15:06:14 [Zakim]: On the phone I see David_Wood, Phil_Tetlow, ??P2, ??P3, Tom_Baker (muted), ??P5, +47.23.23.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, [Sophia]
15:06:16 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Fabien, ChrisW, aharth, pepper, DavidW, aliman, JeffP, Benjamin, Tbaker, PhilT
15:06:22 [Zakim]: +Alistair_Miles (was ??P5)
15:06:30 [Zakim]: +Fabien_Gandon (was [Sophia])
15:06:40 [Zakim]: +Andreas_Harth (was ??P3)
15:06:42 [DavidW]: zakim, David_Wood is DavidW
15:06:46 [Zakim]: +DavidW; got it
15:07:08 [DavidW]: zakim, who is talking
15:07:08 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is talking', DavidW
15:07:11 [DavidW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:07:17 [Zakim]: +??P18
15:07:20 [Tbaker]: who is making that rattling noise?
15:07:22 [Zakim]: DavidW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andreas_Harth (4%), Alistair_Miles (39%), +47.23.23.aaaa (94%)
15:07:36 [DavidW]: zakim, mute aaaa
15:07:36 [Zakim]: +47.23.23.aaaa should now be muted
15:07:39 [ChrisW]: ChrisW has joined #swbp
15:07:58 [pepper]: Zakim, +47.23.23.aaaa is Steve_Pepper
15:07:58 [Zakim]: +Steve_Pepper; got it
15:08:24 [aliman]: Zakim, mute alistair
15:08:24 [Zakim]: Alistair_Miles should now be muted
15:08:25 [Zakim]: +Natasha_Noy
15:08:33 [Natasha]: Natasha has joined #swbp
15:08:37 [ChrisW]: david, did you see my previous comment in irc?
15:08:43 [DavidW]: Steve: I had to mute you
15:09:09 [pepper]: Why's that?
15:09:42 [Zakim]: +Marco
15:09:53 [DavidW]: Someone was using a concrete saw in your office
15:09:53 [aharth]: zakim, mute aharth
15:09:53 [Zakim]: sorry, aharth, I do not see a party named 'aharth'
15:10:01 [aharth]: zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
15:10:01 [Zakim]: Andreas_Harth should now be muted
15:10:02 [DavidW]: ChrisW, Please repost. Thanks
15:10:24 [aliman]: Zakim, unmute alistair
15:10:25 [Zakim]: Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
15:10:55 [ChrisW]: If someone can let me know on IRC when I should join, that would help
15:11:02 [DavidW]: ChrisW, OK
15:11:08 [DavidW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:11:19 [Zakim]: DavidW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (19%), ??P2 (6%), Marco (14%)
15:11:35 [MIkeU]: MIkeU has joined #swbp
15:12:10 [ekw]: ekw has joined #swbp
15:12:13 [aliman_scribe]: regrets: ben a, libby, deb, chris (1/2 here), jeremy
15:12:23 [MIkeU]: Apologies: our phone system has been flaky for last few days. I cannot get an outside line from my office. It may come back, so I will keep trying.
15:12:51 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION ITEM REVIEW
15:13:01 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION guus to note on numeric ranges after the xml datatypes TF has
15:13:01 [aliman_scribe]: finished
15:13:42 [Fabien]: zakim, who is talking?
15:13:53 [Zakim]: Fabien, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (35%), Alistair_Miles (15%), ??P18 (10%), Marco (29%)
15:13:59 [DavidW]: Please get off speaker phones: We would like to clear the echo from the phone. Thanks
15:14:09 [aliman_scribe]: continued
15:14:17 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS
15:14:19 [aliman_scribe]: continues
15:14:28 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for
15:14:28 [aliman_scribe]: Wordnet document to be good enough
15:14:44 [aliman_scribe]: RSSAgent, ?
15:14:56 [aliman_scribe]: RSSAgent withdraw 1
15:15:43 [aliman_scribe]: RSSAgent, drop action 1
15:16:00 [aliman_scribe]: RRSAgent, drop action 1
15:16:15 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for
15:16:16 [aliman_scribe]: Wordnet document to be good enough
15:16:18 [aliman_scribe]: continue
15:16:27 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION VM TF to compile list of sample vocabs for the note
15:16:29 [aliman_scribe]: completed
15:16:39 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION VM TF with help from Guus to find thesaurus like example and
15:16:39 [aliman_scribe]: high end ontologies to section 3
15:16:52 [ChrisW]: please note, deb requested two actions be added - I do not see them
15:16:54 [aliman_scribe]: dropped
15:17:05 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION David to contact Eric Miller re his interest in joining the
15:17:05 [aliman_scribe]: RDFTM TF
15:17:11 [aliman_scribe]: completed
15:17:20 [aliman_scribe]: (awaiting response from em)
15:17:29 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION Jeremy Clarify which parts of UML docs HP is most interested
15:17:29 [aliman_scribe]: in reviewing
15:17:31 [aliman_scribe]: continued
15:17:43 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION david put software engineering task force on agenda for two
15:17:43 [aliman_scribe]: weeks time
15:17:44 [aliman_scribe]: complete
15:17:54 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION david to propose a telecon schedule for the new year
15:17:56 [aliman_scribe]: complete
15:18:06 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION guus to introduce new members from rdftm task force to the wg
15:18:39 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute pepper
15:18:39 [Zakim]: sorry, pepper, I do not see a party named 'pepper'
15:18:40 [aliman_scribe]: fabio: from uni of bologna, part of RDFTM TF
15:18:51 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
15:18:51 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
15:18:56 [aliman_scribe]: fabio: work is beginning on this TF ...
15:19:16 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list
15:19:20 [ChrisW]: Please note deb's request: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0006.html
15:19:28 [DavidW]: q?
15:19:32 [ChrisW]: q+
15:19:39 [ChrisW]: Please note deb's request: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0006.html
15:19:44 [DavidW]: ack ChrisW
15:20:17 [aliman_scribe]: (Guus action complete)
15:20:28 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION ralph contact steve pemberton to clarify html wg's position on
15:20:28 [aliman_scribe]: inclusion of rdf/a in their last call wd.
15:20:30 [aliman_scribe]: continue
15:20:47 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION Ralph take up TAG-SWBP agenda CG tomorrow
15:20:56 [aliman_scribe]: continue
15:20:57 [FV]: FV has joined #swbp
15:21:05 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION steve email 13250 to the WG
15:21:07 [aliman_scribe]: complete
15:21:42 [pepper]: Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
15:21:42 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should now be muted
15:21:43 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 3. Liaison issues
15:21:52 [aliman_scribe]: 3.2 Planning of ODM review activity
15:22:00 [aliman_scribe]: david: put this off to next telecon
15:22:28 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 4. SE TF
15:22:28 [DavidW]: ChrisW, We are discussing the SE TF: Please join
15:22:36 [aliman_scribe]: Phil: Jeff has proposed SE TF
15:22:38 [aliman_scribe]: ...
15:22:45 [Zakim]: +Chris_Welty
15:23:04 [DavidW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:23:16 [aliman_scribe]: Phil: need to discuss knowledge engineering things in wider context of software engineering ...
15:23:16 [Zakim]: DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alistair_Miles (91%), ??P18 (61%)
15:23:26 [aliman_scribe]: establish some kind of collective list ...
15:23:41 [aliman_scribe]: send strong message to SE industry that semantic web is highly applicable ...
15:23:49 [aliman_scribe]: and that W3C is listening. ...
15:24:02 [aliman_scribe]: second objective ...
15:24:18 [aliman_scribe]: (missed that)
15:24:33 [aliman_scribe]: phil: would like to gain acceptance from the WG that a TF can be established
15:24:34 [ChrisW]: aliman, do you have a noisy keyboard?
15:24:44 [aliman_scribe]: Zakim, mute alistait
15:24:44 [Zakim]: sorry, aliman_scribe, I do not see a party named 'alistait'
15:24:47 [aliman_scribe]: Zakim, mute alistair
15:24:47 [Zakim]: Alistair_Miles should now be muted
15:25:05 [aliman_scribe]: phil: want to specifically look at application of semweb technologies in wider context
15:25:20 [aliman_scribe]: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0005.html
15:25:35 [aliman_scribe]: phil: ontology driven SE/architectures is exciting field
15:25:37 [aliman_scribe]: ...
15:25:47 [aliman_scribe]: emerging from model-driven architecture ....
15:26:10 [aliman_scribe]: IBM looking at semantic enrichment of UML ...
15:26:27 [aliman_scribe]: also potential for self-organisaing systems based on semweb technologies ...
15:26:36 [aliman_scribe]: also application of semweb to support UIs
15:26:52 [aliman_scribe]: david: open to comments?
15:27:14 [aliman_scribe]: david: excited to see this, positive step ...
15:27:24 [aliman_scribe]: but concerned that the scope is too broad ...
15:27:37 [aliman_scribe]: also concerned that we don't have the effort, lots of other things on our plate ....
15:27:57 [aliman_scribe]: at the f2f we talked about completing some TFs in the first qrater of 2005 ....
15:28:08 [aliman_scribe]: i.e. make sure that we deliver. ...
15:28:18 [aliman_scribe]: (on our current commitments)
15:28:37 [aliman_scribe]: There will be drive from the chairs to complete current TFs ...
15:28:57 [aliman_scribe]: Secondly, this TF has some real heavyweights involved ...
15:29:02 [aliman_scribe]: including Phil & Jeff ...
15:29:22 [aliman_scribe]: issue of scope ... phil says stear clear of refs to UML ...
15:29:47 [aliman_scribe]: but would like to see some specific refs being made to UML ... would be very useful to have UML mapping ...
15:29:52 [aliman_scribe]: Phil: not in scope ...
15:30:02 [aliman_scribe]: scope may appear wide ...
15:30:20 [aliman_scribe]: if terms of reference are published, are they fixed? ...
15:30:32 [aliman_scribe]: Also timing is right to send out a signal to wider community ...
15:30:52 [aliman_scribe]: encouraging to contemplate semweb ...
15:31:03 [aliman_scribe]: so just a single W3C published doc would be a great step ...
15:31:06 [Zakim]: +??P24
15:31:12 [Zakim]: +Mike_Uschold (was ??P24)
15:31:16 [aliman_scribe]: but don't want to get into fine details ...
15:31:25 [aliman_scribe]: just want to register high level ideas for debate ...
15:31:36 [aliman_scribe]: i.e. first deliverable could be a list of exciting potential ideas ...
15:31:55 [aliman_scribe]: because around this list would be proactive debate, which would stimulate energy ...
15:32:02 [aliman_scribe]: both in semweb and in SE comms ...
15:32:30 [aliman_scribe]: am finding it very easy to get high level support for this, i.e. momentum is there.
15:32:36 [MIkeU]: I'm now on the telecon.
15:32:57 [aliman_scribe]: David: agree that timing is good, from tucana point of view we have many customers interested in ontology driven SE ...
15:33:04 [aliman_scribe]: trying to do this with current toolkits ...
15:33:11 [aliman_scribe]: and would love some guidance from W3C ...
15:33:28 [aliman_scribe]: so see the value of a public list of validated ideas, to be turned into a note ...
15:33:38 [aliman_scribe]: don't know about taking it to rec ...
15:33:51 [aliman_scribe]: phil: agrees, actually above my expectation. ...
15:34:02 [aliman_scribe]: happy to modify terms of reference to describe this deliverable ...
15:34:22 [aliman_scribe]: main focus is a net to catch some ideas, forum for discussion, and important to do this right now. ...
15:34:38 [aliman_scribe]: there are some technologies going orthogonal to W3C ...
15:34:50 [aliman_scribe]: if we let these orgs go with this, this is a bad thing for our communities ..
15:35:13 [Zakim]: -Chris_Welty
15:35:23 [aliman_scribe]: concept of ontology-driven software engineering ... publishing this phrase on W3C TF list would generate lots ...
15:35:30 [aliman_scribe]: of interest alone ...
15:35:49 [aliman_scribe]: also 'ontology driven architectures' (did I get that right?)
15:36:04 [aliman_scribe]: mikeU: likes what's been said ...
15:36:20 [aliman_scribe]: lots of work has been done and we should pull it all together.
15:36:41 [aliman_scribe]: phil: can we get permission of WG to establish a TF, with caveat that objective is produce a work in progress document ...
15:36:56 [aliman_scribe]: and set a date for the terms of reference to be finalised>
15:36:58 [aliman_scribe]: ?
15:37:15 [aliman_scribe]: david: address an issue from (???)
15:37:29 [aliman_scribe]: phil: preference is to make all discussions around SETF public ...
15:37:33 [Christo]: Christo has joined #swbp
15:37:44 [aliman_scribe]: as open as possible.
15:37:58 [aliman_scribe]: david: W3C can provide a publicly archived mailing list for just this TF ...
15:38:09 [aliman_scribe]: also welcome to converse on swbp list.
15:38:17 [aliman_scribe]: phil: takes offer for separate mailing list.
15:38:40 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible
15:38:48 [aliman_scribe]: phil: also wants a wiki
15:38:59 [aliman_scribe]: david: we can give you a wiki too.
15:39:24 [aliman_scribe]: phil: if we do set up a wiki, is that W3C internal, or completely open?
15:39:34 [aliman_scribe]: david: defers to ralph's guidance on that.
15:39:57 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF
15:40:24 [aliman_scribe]: phil: can we assume that it's OK to set up SETF?
15:40:30 [aliman_scribe]: david: any objections to SETF?
15:40:43 [aliman_scribe]: chair sees no objection
15:40:59 [aliman_scribe]: PROPOSED: david proposes to stand SETF
15:41:06 [aliman_scribe]: Second: mikeU
15:41:20 [aliman_scribe]: Phil: thanks the WG for support ...
15:41:51 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF description
15:42:09 [aliman_scribe]: David: add me to the list of SETF members
15:42:24 [aliman_scribe]: MikeU: can someone summarise what was accepted in terms of ref?
15:42:50 [aliman_scribe]: Phil: we have provisionally agrred toerms of ref, but the scope may be too broad, needs refinement
15:43:07 [Zakim]: + +44.127.987.aabb
15:43:10 [aliman_scribe]: david: but consensus to publish these as a TF descriptiion and stand up the SETF
15:43:27 [DavidW]: zakim, who is talking?
15:43:31 [aliman_scribe]: ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon
15:43:38 [Zakim]: DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (61%), Phil_Tetlow (4%), Mike_Uschold (19%), +44.127.987.aabb (75%)
15:43:50 [aliman_scribe]: Zakim, aabb is jeremy
15:43:50 [Zakim]: +jeremy; got it
15:44:11 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 3.1 Review of SPARQL
15:44:21 [aliman_scribe]: jeremy: interaction of sparql and datatyping work ...
15:44:35 [aliman_scribe]: to extend the language they are using various functions defined by XQUERY &c. ...
15:44:44 [aliman_scribe]: point of interaction in that using the XPATH model ...
15:44:47 [ChrisW]: ChrisW has joined #swbp
15:44:51 [aliman_scribe]: which has a view on how to process type literals ...
15:45:14 [aliman_scribe]: so relevant to the datatyping work.
15:45:20 [aliman_scribe]: david: jjc has 3 points ...
15:45:36 [aliman_scribe]: Zakim, unmute alistair
15:45:36 [Zakim]: Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
15:46:03 [aliman_scribe]: 2 - presupposing that RDF datatypes are XML schema dataypes?
15:46:15 [aliman_scribe]: jjc: using the XQuery fuinctions does make this presupposition
15:46:23 [aliman_scribe]: david: we need to make this explicit
15:48:16 [aliman_scribe]: david: we need to incl;ude the DAWG in review of XMLSCH TF note.
15:48:34 [aliman_scribe]: TF REVIEWS
15:48:45 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC:5.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremey)
15:49:01 [aliman_scribe]: jeremy: some progress, need to finish bit on user defined datatypes ...
15:49:14 [aliman_scribe]: also jeff to add sommething on hoe DL reasoners interact with this.
15:49:30 [aliman_scribe]: ... also evan has suggested to split the doc ...
15:49:49 [aliman_scribe]: but I'm opposed, unless sections progress at different speeds.
15:50:03 [aliman_scribe]: jeff: good idea to keep as one doc ...
15:50:25 [aliman_scribe]: because if split into two documents, need to reiterate relationship between RDF & XML datatypes. ...
15:50:39 [aliman_scribe]: jeremy: unless strong reason to split, better as one for now.
15:50:51 [Zakim]: -jeremy
15:51:04 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.1 OEP (Deb)
15:51:21 [aliman_scribe]: Natasha: no comments for now.
15:51:30 [aliman_scribe]: ... Chris to give an update?
15:51:34 [ChrisW]: joining
15:52:02 [Zakim]: +Chris_Welty
15:52:12 [aliman_scribe]: david: deb posted message yesterday ...
15:52:29 [aliman_scribe]: units & measures has an author ...
15:52:43 [aliman_scribe]: OWL time waiting for response from chairs ...
15:53:21 [aliman_scribe]: units& measures is wiating on getting lisa kendle as invited expert.
15:53:57 [aliman_scribe]: chris: at the f2f deb remembers ralph taking action to contact elisa
15:54:05 [aliman_scribe]: but no recorded action.
15:54:30 [aliman_scribe]: david: as soon as ralph on line next week we'll clear this up.
15:54:40 [aliman_scribe]: chris: also any comment son the web page for the OEP TF?
15:55:07 [aliman_scribe]: david: sorry about TF waiting on chairs and invited epxerts ...
15:55:31 [aliman_scribe]: will try to clean up both issues ASAP.
15:55:48 [Zakim]: -Chris_Welty
15:56:05 [aliman_scribe]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Nov/0093.html
15:56:57 [DavidW]: Alistair: Have taken in SKOS Core. Want to publish guide.
15:57:31 [ChrisW]: is telecon times going to be discussed 2day? i don't see it on agenda
15:57:35 [DavidW]: Alistair: Want to publish guide in a way readable by non-RDF people. Too difficult.
15:58:09 [DavidW]: Publish a RDF-aware version, and another doc aimed at non-RDF people
15:58:27 [DavidW]: Therefore, the guide could get done shortly
15:58:40 [DavidW]: Will post to list for feedback.
15:59:00 [DavidW]: Chair: Thinks that is an excellent idea. Would like to see guide published.
15:59:45 [DavidW]: Guide and namespace doc (SKOS Core Vocabulary Spec) to be published as first WD shortly.
16:01:33 [DavidW]: ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD
16:01:38 [ChrisW]: is telecon times going to be discussed 2day? i don't see it on agenda
16:02:18 [DavidW]: ChrisW, We will cover in AOB
16:02:43 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.3 WordNet (Aldo)
16:02:55 [aliman_scribe]: david: still missing some TF updates on the archive ...
16:03:09 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.5 Vocabulary management
16:03:23 [aliman_scribe]: Tom: dec 6 deadline is slipping a little ...
16:03:31 [aliman_scribe]: have been in touch with authors ...
16:03:50 [aliman_scribe]: JimH is still williing to write intro in Jan when we have the technical bit sin place ...
16:04:01 [aliman_scribe]: hve been in touch with prism folks about the prism bit ...
16:04:33 [aliman_scribe]: other big piece is ralph's bit on sorting out which W3C specs are most salient and current for VM ...
16:04:56 [aliman_scribe]: one important function for this note is as up to date and annotated selction of references ...
16:05:15 [aliman_scribe]: there are so many notes and specs that touch on the topic, so important to get that piece in place ...
16:05:41 [aliman_scribe]: so if we get the text about DC, FOAF, SKOS, PRISM, W3C specs ...
16:05:56 [aliman_scribe]: enough to produce a plausible draft for further discussion in jan ...
16:06:10 [aliman_scribe]: so all contributions by end of next week please ...
16:06:19 [aliman_scribe]: so we can have a draft before the hols.
16:06:38 [MIkeU]: MIkeU has joined #swbp
16:06:42 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.6 RDF-in-HTML
16:07:14 [aliman_scribe]: david: comments on RDF/A?
16:07:38 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.7 ADTF (Libby)
16:07:50 [Fabien]: http://esw.w3.org/mt/esw/archives/cat_applications_and_demos.html
16:07:57 [aliman_scribe]: Fabien: felix etnerd description of semweb challenges to the ADTF repos ...
16:08:21 [aliman_scribe]: what about the best way to publish and collect the demos?
16:08:24 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute pepper
16:08:24 [Zakim]: sorry, pepper, I do not see a party named 'pepper'
16:08:27 [aliman_scribe]: still continuing with the blog.
16:08:31 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:08:31 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:08:39 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: RDFTM (Steve)
16:08:58 [pepper]: http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/RDFTM/
16:09:04 [aliman_scribe]: steve: RDFTM TF ahs started, have created a wiki at uni of bologna ...
16:09:12 [FV]: FV has joined #swbp
16:09:22 [aliman_scribe]: asking TF members to check out existing material linked from wiki and to provide feedback on ...
16:09:37 [aliman_scribe]: test cases, bibliography, survey.
16:09:49 [pepper]: Fabio Vitali and Valentina Prescutti have volunteered to edit the first deliverable (Survey of existing proposals)
16:09:57 [Zakim]: +Chris_Welty
16:10:17 [aliman_scribe]: steve: also ralph has some docs to post on W3C website ...
16:11:33 [aliman_scribe]: david: also spoke to nikita ??? from deutsch bank?
16:11:43 [aliman_scribe]: he has some concerns about technical mapping issues ...
16:11:43 [pepper]: nikita ogievetsky
16:12:06 [aliman_scribe]: he would like to join the TF, are looking into getting deutsch bank to join W3C ...
16:12:21 [aliman_scribe]: am pressing nikita for test case to express his concern.
16:12:36 [aliman_scribe]: pepper: nikita's proposal is one of the ones in consideration.
16:15:02 [pepper]: Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:15:02 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:17:42 [FV]: Got to go now. See you next time. Ciao
16:17:48 [Zakim]: -??P18
16:17:59 [aliman_scribe]: phil: have approached cliff jones of newcastle uni as involved in SETF ...
16:18:21 [aliman_scribe]: have taken action to contact eric & ralph re getting uni of newcastle to join W3C
16:18:28 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:18:28 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:18:49 [pepper]: Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:18:49 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:19:00 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: 5.9 Tutorial Page (TomA)
16:19:15 [aliman_scribe]: david: no updates, any suggestion ping tom directly
16:19:28 [aliman_scribe]: TOPIC: Telecon times
16:19:37 [aliman_scribe]: David: proposal made to list ...
16:19:55 [aliman_scribe]: to have a single telecon time as either 1800 or 1900 UTC every seconed thursday ...
16:20:03 [aliman_scribe]: Guus prefers 1800
16:20:09 [aliman_scribe]: David OK with either
16:20:18 [aliman_scribe]: any strong objections?
16:20:21 [Benjamin]: I prefer also as early as poss
16:20:22 [Tbaker]: either one is okay with me
16:20:42 [aliman_scribe]: Is there enough contention to jsutify a straw poll?
16:20:46 [JeffP]: I prefer the earlier one
16:21:04 [aliman_scribe]: I prefer earlier also
16:21:15 [aliman_scribe]: david: any strong objections to 1800?
16:21:32 [pepper]: Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:21:32 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:21:59 [aliman_scribe]: pepper: east asia possible involvement in WG ... e.g. korea ...
16:22:17 [aliman_scribe]: this time prohibitve for peole from that part of the world
16:22:30 [aliman_scribe]: can we change around every half year?
16:22:44 [Fabien]: I prefer earlier also (15 UTC for instance)
16:22:46 [aliman_scribe]: david: we have one year left to go for this WG. ...
16:23:03 [aliman_scribe]: and unfortunately most participants from Europe & US ...
16:23:25 [aliman_scribe]: we also have many other modes of involvement other than telecon ...
16:23:53 [aliman_scribe]: encourage those unable to attend telecons to participate through other means e.g. mail, wikis
16:24:10 [aliman_scribe]: ... IRC .. e.g. we have folks from Oz involved.
16:24:42 [aliman_scribe]: ... so we cannot satisfy everybody, no matter what we pick ...
16:24:47 [aliman_scribe]: .
16:24:56 [aliman_scribe]: pepper: alternative is to rotate.
16:25:38 [aliman_scribe]: david: done this for last 6 moths ... but confusion has decreased attendance ...
16:25:51 [aliman_scribe]: chris: objected to alternation ...
16:26:18 [aliman_scribe]: the earlier time just didn't work for folk in asia ...
16:26:32 [aliman_scribe]: would like to see strong participation from folks beofre moving telecon times to accomodate.
16:26:52 [aliman_scribe]: david: W3C goes a long way to provide multiple way sof participating.
16:27:17 [pepper]: Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:27:17 [Zakim]: Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:27:32 [aliman_scribe]: david: let's watch the list for comments ...
16:28:07 [aliman_scribe]: so far we have no reason not to plan for 1800 UTC ... need to confirm with Guus and others on the list. ...
16:28:31 [aliman_scribe]: next telecon is 1900 UTC December 16
16:28:41 [aliman_scribe]: use this telecon to catch all comments
16:29:06 [aliman_scribe]: other offline comments suggest 1800UTC looks OK
16:29:46 [aliman_scribe]: PROPOSE: david proposes to move telecon times for 2005 at 1800UTC on alternating thursdays
16:29:58 [aliman_scribe]: chris seconds
16:30:08 [aliman_scribe]: no objections
16:30:16 [aliman_scribe]: Proposal moved.
16:30:26 [Zakim]: -Evan_Wallace
16:30:30 [Zakim]: -Tom_Baker
16:30:31 [Zakim]: -Andreas_Harth
16:30:32 [Zakim]: -Phil_Tetlow
16:30:32 [Zakim]: -Marco
16:30:33 [Zakim]: -DavidW
16:30:34 [Zakim]: -Fabien_Gandon
16:30:35 [Zakim]: -Mike_Uschold
16:30:36 [Zakim]: -Steve_Pepper
16:30:37 [Zakim]: -Alistair_Miles
16:30:39 [Zakim]: -Natasha_Noy
16:30:40 [Benjamin]: bye all :)
16:30:41 [Zakim]: -Chris_Welty
16:30:43 [Zakim]: -??P2
16:30:44 [aliman_scribe]: RRS Agent bye
16:30:45 [Zakim]: SW_BPD()10:00AM has ended
16:30:45 [pepper]: bye
16:30:47 [Zakim]: Attendees were Phil_Tetlow, Tom_Baker, Evan_Wallace, Alistair_Miles, Fabien_Gandon, Andreas_Harth, DavidW, Steve_Pepper, Natasha_Noy, Marco, Chris_Welty, Mike_Uschold,
16:30:50 [Zakim]: ... +44.127.987.aabb, jeremy
16:30:53 [aliman_scribe]: RRSAgent bye
16:30:55 [Fabien]: bye
16:31:00 [aliman_scribe]: RRSAgent, bye
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: I see 6 open action items:
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list [2]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-19-16
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible [3]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-38-40
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF [4]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-39-57
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF description [5]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-41-51
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon [6]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-43-31
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD [7]
16:31:00 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T16-01-33