IRC log of tagmem on 2004-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:07:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
20:08:31 [Chris]
Meeting: tag f2f
20:08:37 [Chris]
Chair: Norm
20:08:42 [Chris]
Scribe: TimBL
20:08:50 [timbl_]
Norm: Next meeting is f2f next week. i can't come the second day (Tuesday)
20:08:50 [Chris]
20:09:24 [timbl_]
Paul: See email frpm email for details on meeting location (Stata center, >1 room)
20:09:36 [timbl_]
Today is the 22nd November.
20:09:41 [timbl_]
Zakim, who is on the call?
20:09:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TimBL, Chris, paulc, Roy, Noah, Norm
20:10:16 [timbl_]
Tim: Seocnd day oif f2f - regrets - conflict with W3C Steering Committee.
20:10:51 [timbl_]
Chis: Also I have a conflict with Interraction Domain meeting, on Tuesday 30th all day, but not clear which meeting I will go to
20:11:11 [Chris]
20:11:20 [timbl_]
Norm: Anyone looked at the minues?
20:11:44 [Chris]
"TimBL: WebDAV works on bits, including a filename, no metadata is transferred"
20:11:46 [timbl_]
I didn't recognize "TimBL: WebDAV works on bits, including a filename, no metadata is transferred" from previous minutes
20:11:54 [Chris]
incorrectly attributed to TimBL
20:12:09 [timbl_]
20:12:40 [timbl_]
RESOLVED Minutes accepted with that ammendment
20:12:45 [timbl_]
20:12:49 [timbl_]
AC Meeting Prep:
20:13:48 [timbl_]
Chris: Ian asked about TAG participation, DanC suggested none, Ian pushed back and so did Steve Bratt.
20:14:00 [Chris]
I'm happy to do a talk if required; mainly to point to existing PR and to ask for scope of next version
20:14:34 [Chris]
timbl: talk about how to prioritize things for next version
20:14:37 [timbl_]
Tim: Yes, it was felt we couldn't go to PR after all this time without comment.
20:14:53 [timbl_]
Paul: There were suggestions form IAn on what we could do.
20:15:31 [timbl_]
.... The excitemnt of reaching PR, te csope, of it, the priorities, summizing of last 3 years.
20:16:55 [paulc]
20:17:08 [timbl_]
20:17:25 [timbl_]
Paul: We are onthe agenda and we should discuss what to say at hte face-face meeting.
20:19:00 [timbl_]
[discussion of format]
20:19:18 [timbl_]
Anyone who is at the meeting will be at the front.
20:19:21 [timbl_]
20:19:29 [timbl_]
Technical Plenary meeting
20:19:48 [timbl_] Section 1.2
20:20:10 [timbl_]
Stuart is stick handling here. Ongoing, Stuart to report at face-face.
20:21:08 [timbl_]
Noah: During the non-meeting last week I agreed to get schema folks to participate, David Orchard may contribute, David Ezell as chair may both be involved.
20:21:09 [paulc]
WS-Addressing liaison at TP:
20:21:25 [timbl_]
Norm: re face-face next week or TP?
20:21:41 [timbl_]
Noah: sorry, f2f next week.
20:21:58 [timbl_]
...ikn case we want to go further with Schema.
20:25:17 [timbl_]
Paul: Noah, be aware that before you joined, we used to use less AC meeting and mor TP time, and specifically for tech stuff including versioning.
20:25:47 [timbl_]
Noah: Sounds aas though there is serious work on versioning on both sides, and so liaison good.
20:26:05 [timbl_]
Paul: We are open to any laiision on this --- open to any form of response.
20:26:08 [timbl_]
20:26:15 [timbl_]
Item 1.3 TAG charter
20:26:28 [timbl_]
Norm: Reviews are open till Dec 3.
20:26:32 [timbl_]
Any comment?
20:26:47 [timbl_]
20:26:51 [timbl_]
20:27:08 [timbl_]
Inserted agenda item 1.4
20:27:24 [timbl_]
Setting the face-face agenda.
20:27:41 [timbl_]
Paul: Can we please discuss this
20:27:56 [Norm]
Draft agenda:
20:27:59 [timbl_]
...; We are planning a video conf with Stuart in the morning only, so we will start promptly at 9am.
20:28:24 [timbl_]
lunch has been arranged, and whiteboard and video projectors, zakim bridge number, video conference number.
20:28:38 [timbl_]
Zakim will be ususal passcode, 4 lines all day.
20:28:57 [timbl_]
...Two outstanding options.
20:29:04 [timbl_]
... Dinner Monday night?
20:29:15 [timbl_]
... (ask for reservation?)
20:29:19 [Chris]
+1 for dinner
20:30:14 [timbl_]
... Lets. go with the flow and reserev on the fly prob fo 5-6 on Monday.
20:30:16 [Chris]
no advannce reservation
20:30:19 [timbl_]
20:30:42 [timbl_]
Paul: Will we need speakerphoine for Tuesday pm?
20:30:46 [timbl_]
Norm: Yes
20:31:16 [timbl_]
20:31:27 [timbl_]
DARFT Agenda
20:31:44 [timbl_]
20:32:15 [DanC-AIM]
DanC-AIM has joined #tagmem
20:32:39 [timbl_]
Norm: To construct slides, we will need 45-90 mins for AC meeting prep.
20:33:25 [timbl_]
Norm: [discusses darft agenda 0101.html]
20:33:55 [paulc]
F2F rooms:
20:34:20 [paulc]
F2F: Monday, November 28th, Stata Center, Room 262 [1] (video teleconference
20:34:47 [timbl_]
Norm: Clusetring of items has been sent out -- see 2.3 on this agenda
20:36:22 [Chris]
Do we plan to approve any draft findings?
20:36:49 [Chris]
Or find which ones are not moving and decide what do do about that (action, drop, etc)
20:37:50 [Chris]
Paul said, a bit of both I think
20:38:10 [timbl_]
Paul: I don't think we will approve any draft findings, only current ones really are
20:38:27 [timbl_]
... the one Chris is working on and teh one Norm did.
20:38:35 [timbl_]
... We haev only reposted one draft finding.
20:39:40 [paulc]
F2F is to attack both issues and findings to determine our future work.
20:40:12 [Chris]
q+ to talk about that
20:40:16 [paulc]
We will have to decide which issues are the most important post-Rec and also decide which findings we want to do more work on.
20:40:27 [Norm]
ack chris
20:40:27 [Zakim]
Chris, you wanted to talk about that
20:40:31 [timbl_]
Meeting room, by the way:
20:41:07 [timbl_]
Chris: They are confused because we are trying to say stg different. His points are good -- however those points were supposed to convey tsg diffrent.
20:41:33 [timbl_]
That is, fi you have a choice of representations, you can either select on the server or on teh client.
20:41:50 [timbl_]
We should say that they are correct and that we were talking about something different.
20:42:14 [timbl_]
That means that the finding means to be improved, as that is how we clarify things.
20:42:17 [timbl_]
20:42:24 [Chris]
we were talking about the DIselect type content adaptation
20:42:37 [timbl_]
>... i agree tha ta ddressing eth finding would be good but we have to address the comment too.
20:42:52 [timbl_]
ACTION Chris repsond to Hakon by the face-face meeting
20:44:13 [timbl_]
ACTION Chris propose improved text for the document by the face-face.
20:44:14 [Chris]
a) talk with Hakon about what we meant
20:44:37 [Chris]
b) propose text for AWWW for agreement at f2f
20:45:35 [timbl_]
20:45:55 [timbl_]
Norm: Second comment is editorial - the glossay definition of Namespeace Dcouemnt is bogus
20:46:00 [Chris]
do we agree his example is valid
20:46:01 [Chris]
<foo xmlns="">...</foo>
20:46:24 [Chris]
its a URI
20:46:27 [timbl_]
...This is a URI
20:46:38 [timbl_]
.... Is the rqeuiremnt aht it has to be a URI
20:46:39 [Chris]
so, it seems correct per spec. unusual, but not incorrect
20:46:45 [Chris]
20:47:57 [Noah]
FWIW: As a matter of definition from XML Namespaces 1.1 (
20:48:02 [timbl_]
Raoy: I think he means that if theer is an information resource then it is a namespaec dcoument.
20:48:04 [Noah]
[Definition: An XML namespace is identified by an IRI reference; element and attribute names may be placed in an XML namespace using the mechanisms described in this specification. ]
20:49:08 [timbl_]
20:49:12 [Chris]
wondering .... xmlns:="about:"
20:49:16 [timbl_]
Norm: NS spec doesn't precldue mailto here
20:50:27 [Chris]
response: example its a valid but stupid thing to do ...
20:51:10 [timbl_]
Noah: One could imagine being tempted to use a NS URI which is a mailbox if one had a system with one ns per mailbx , ....
20:51:37 [timbl_]
Norm: It is not good to do that, and we do say that it is godo to have a NS document. We say HHTP URIs are good for this.
20:51:44 [Noah]
20:53:10 [Chris]
20:54:11 [Noah]
...which gets you a fax machine that sends you the namespace document? :-)
20:54:35 [timbl_]
RESOLVED change workding as Roy recommended, vix that if the NS URI identifies and Information Resource, then that IR is the NS document.
20:54:55 [timbl_]
RESOLVED that disposes of that comment
20:55:10 [timbl_]
ACTION Norm respond to that.
20:55:16 [Chris]
per the spec, its valid if it gets you a 'this number is not in service' voice message .....
20:56:05 [timbl_]
Tim: NO, just because a phone number results in a message does NOT mean the phione number is an identifier of a messgae. it still identifies a PSTN end point.
20:56:10 [timbl_]
20:56:18 [Noah]
I thought you'd say that...
20:57:02 [timbl_]
Norm: Last up we have some push back from Steve Bratt COO on the use of "edition" as the XML and NS documents have used it in a different spirit.
20:57:14 [timbl_]
... In message 0090 he and Steve discuss this.
20:58:23 [timbl_]
Roy: Why not use "Edition"?
20:58:36 [timbl_]
Tim: "Edition" in W3C is a specific term.
20:59:09 [Chris]
Some specifications use 'Level' for different versions of a spec where level n+1
20:59:28 [Chris]
has more stuff than Level n
20:59:37 [timbl_]
Tim: We didn't want to do levels as it isn't l;evels of the technoolgy, only of the document.
21:00:13 [timbl_]
Chris: Will the next editiion be a superset?
21:00:32 [timbl_]
Norm: I said I don't mind being "first edition" as on fact we can change the title.
21:00:44 [timbl_]
.... Shjoudl we call it "edition 2004"?
21:01:00 [timbl_]
Tim: Does that avoid "Edition".
21:01:35 [Zakim]
21:01:42 [timbl_]
Paul: I must leave, ay be late on Monday morning for the face-face.
21:02:39 [timbl_]
Norm: I assumed: "the Architectrue of the WWW" "The architecture of the WS" " "ASW"
21:02:52 [timbl_]
Tim: [surprised] you mean no content from this one in next one?
21:03:07 [timbl_]
Noah: But is we feel we could improve on this document's scope?
21:03:19 [timbl_]
... like XMLns going from 1.0 to 1.1
21:04:11 [timbl_]
Tim: Agreed .. but we can still rename it even if it has large overlap.
21:05:06 [timbl_]
Noah: But we really might eant to rev this document.... and rev it incompatibly ... we may have made a mistake, we may decide.
21:05:28 [timbl_]
Noah: If XMLNS 1.1 brought in IRIs etc.
21:05:53 [timbl_]
... Maybe this is "AWWW v1 edition1"
21:06:42 [timbl_]
Chris: Maybe we want to be able to revise some little bits without putting in the new document.
21:06:44 [Chris]
we might want to to an AWWW2 that references AWWW1, and also might want to do an AWWW second edition that lightly revs the original AWWW
21:07:04 [timbl_]
Tim: Is the proposal then to drop "First Edition"?
21:07:08 [timbl_]
Chris: OK
21:07:11 [Noah]
21:07:13 [timbl_]
Roy: OK
21:07:18 [Norm]
21:07:35 [timbl_]
Paul had said that he would concur for the rest of the meeting.
21:07:53 [timbl_]
Norm: He agrees anyway.
21:08:10 [timbl_]
RESOLVED: We drop the "First Edition" part of the title.
21:08:37 [timbl_]
21:09:04 [timbl_]
2.2 Versioning and Extensabbility
21:09:05 [timbl_]
21:09:36 [timbl_]
We have an existing finding and a bunch of wor from David orchard, and DO and I have talked about updating the document with some of those ideas.
21:10:13 [timbl_]
... i agreed to produce a new draft by the end of tomorrow or early on Wednesdya, for sending on Thursdaay, forgetting atht Thursday was Thanksgiving, so that may not happen.
21:10:23 [timbl_]
... I don't know who will have read it.
21:10:31 [timbl_]
Chris: I will be able to read it.
21:10:50 [Chris]
Chris, Paul, Stuart might not be affected by US thanksgiving
21:10:55 [timbl_]
... and paul may be able to
21:11:34 [timbl_]
21:11:37 [timbl_]
21:12:00 [timbl_]
Norm: can we have an update please?
21:12:26 [timbl_]
Chris: re putMediaTypes, sorry I haven't sent in my work on that.
21:12:46 [Chris]
there has been some discussion on as well
21:12:51 [timbl_]
Roy: To soem extentthe fidning on Metadata incorporates both directions and so may end up answering this issue
21:14:07 [timbl_]
Chris: The charset issue has attarcted some criticsm on public-www-tag and some IETF lists, saying we conflict with RFC____
21:15:06 [DanC]
DanC has joined #tagmem
21:15:14 [timbl_]
Re finding on message metadata ...
21:16:10 [Noah]
21:16:32 [Chris]
21:16:43 [timbl_]
Authoritative Metadata
21:16:43 [timbl_]
TAG Finding 25 February 2004
21:17:57 [timbl_]
Noah: MediaType management 45 -- was that addressed last meeting?
21:18:23 [Norm]
s/Noah:/Norm:/ :-)
21:18:40 [timbl_]
Chris: It wasn't last meeting, but uit has come up in the community recently, specifically different XML document types such as XSLT and XForms
21:20:20 [timbl_]
21:20:29 [Zakim]
21:20:38 [Zakim]
21:20:39 [Zakim]
21:20:39 [Zakim]
21:20:40 [Zakim]
21:20:41 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()2:30PM has ended
21:20:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were TimBL, Chris, +1.732.962.aaaa, Roy, Norm, Noah, paulc
21:26:10 [DanC]
DanC has left #tagmem
23:11:49 [Chris]
Chris has left #tagmem
23:35:44 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tagmem