IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:02:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:23 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:02:23 [Zakim]
sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I don't know what conference this is
21:02:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Becky, Yvette_Hoitink, ChrisR, wendy
21:02:31 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:33 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, this is WAI_WCAG()
21:02:33 [Zakim]
ok, Yvette_Hoitink; that matches WAI_WCAG()4:00PM
21:02:35 [Zakim]
21:02:42 [Zakim]
21:02:45 [bcaldwell]
bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:49 [Zakim]
21:02:53 [Zakim]
21:02:56 [wendy]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike
21:02:56 [Zakim]
+Mike; got it
21:03:01 [Zakim]
21:03:03 [wendy]
zakim, ??P12 is Lisa_Seeman
21:03:03 [Zakim]
+Lisa_Seeman; got it
21:03:04 [Zakim]
21:03:10 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike_Barta
21:03:10 [Zakim]
sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
21:03:21 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:03:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, +1.267.983.aaaa, ??P4, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, ??P8, ??P13
21:03:31 [bengt]
21:03:33 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:03:44 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P4 (19%), Wendy (14%)
21:03:44 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, ??P13 is Bengt_Farre
21:03:46 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
21:03:48 [wendy]
zakim, mute ??P4
21:03:48 [Zakim]
??P4 should now be muted
21:03:55 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute bengt
21:03:55 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre should now be muted
21:04:15 [bengt]
zakim, ??P8 is Bengt_Farre
21:04:15 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
21:04:16 [wendy]
zakim, unmute ??P4
21:04:16 [Zakim]
??P4 should no longer be muted
21:04:23 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:04:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, +1.267.983.aaaa, ??P4, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a, Bengt_Farre (muted)
21:04:25 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
21:04:26 [Zakim]
'bengt' is ambiguous, bengt
21:04:32 [wendy]
zakim, ??P0 is David
21:04:32 [Zakim]
+David; got it
21:04:35 [bengt]
zakim, I am bengt_Farre
21:04:35 [Zakim]
ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
21:04:37 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
21:04:37 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre was already muted, bengt
21:04:51 [wendy]
zakim, +1.267 may be Neil
21:04:51 [Zakim]
+Neil?; got it
21:04:51 [bengt]
zakim, I am bengt_Farre.a
21:04:52 [Zakim]
ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre.a
21:04:55 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
21:04:55 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre.a should now be muted
21:05:07 [wendy]
zakim, ??P4 is Kerstin
21:05:07 [Zakim]
+Kerstin; got it
21:05:14 [bengt]
I am p8 !
21:05:16 [Zakim]
21:05:25 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:05:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Bengt_Farre (muted),
21:05:28 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:05:38 [bcaldwell]
that's the problem
21:05:40 [bcaldwell]
yes, we're here
21:05:53 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:05:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Bengt_Farre,
21:05:56 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:05:57 [Zakim]
21:05:59 [wendy]
zakim, who's talking?
21:06:06 [Zakim]
21:06:09 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Loretta_Guarino_Reid (9%), JasonWhite (4%)
21:06:15 [Zakim]
21:06:16 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
21:06:21 [wendy]
zakim, ??P13 is Michael_Cooper
21:06:21 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper; got it
21:06:37 [David]
21:06:38 [gregg]
gregg has joined #wai-wcag
21:06:43 [wendy]
zakim, Lisa is Gregg_and_Ben
21:06:43 [Zakim]
+Gregg_and_Ben; got it
21:06:48 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:06:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
21:06:51 [Zakim]
... Michael_Cooper, Matt
21:06:58 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #wai-wcag
21:07:07 [gregg]
21:07:14 [wendy]
ack lisa
21:07:39 [wendy]
bengt - please press 41# on your phone
21:07:44 [bengt]
I am not onlie
21:07:57 [bengt]
trying to call back
21:08:04 [wendy]
zakim, Bengt is Lisa
21:08:04 [Zakim]
+Lisa; got it
21:08:06 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, who's on the phone
21:08:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Yvette_Hoitink
21:08:09 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:08:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Lisa (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
21:08:12 [Zakim]
... Michael_Cooper, Matt
21:08:14 [Zakim]
21:08:15 [Michael]
Michael has joined #wai-wcag
21:08:23 [wendy]
zakim, ??P15 is Bengt
21:08:23 [Zakim]
+Bengt; got it
21:08:27 [wendy]
zakim, mute Bengt
21:08:27 [Neil]
Neil has joined #wai-wcag
21:08:29 [Zakim]
Bengt should now be muted
21:08:33 [Michael]
zakim, I am Michael_Cooper
21:08:33 [Zakim]
ok, Michael, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper
21:09:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute me
21:09:42 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:11:43 [Yvette_Hoitink]
21:11:50 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:11:50 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:12:14 [gregg]
ack y
21:14:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute me
21:14:04 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:15:37 [wendy]
TTF summary ala Michael: approved publication of techniques documents - with changes, discussed test suites/test files.
21:17:13 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:17:13 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:18:59 [Kesh]
Kesh has joined #wai-wcag
21:19:53 [Kesh]
hello ... is this working?
21:20:19 [Yvette_Hoitink]
hi Kesh
21:20:23 [Kesh]
21:20:24 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Kesh = Justine?
21:20:30 [Kesh]
"Sheshtin" yes
21:20:33 [Kesh]
21:20:37 [Yvette_Hoitink]
a, ok
21:20:51 [Kesh]
GV: 1.2 is what we are looking at ...
21:21:16 [Kesh]
GV: we should be able to get feedback this way. we are on to the next item: conformance
21:21:29 [Kesh]
ben: baseline and conformance
21:21:38 [Kesh]
gv: baseline is in conformance section.
21:21:58 [Kesh]
becky: need a link
21:22:09 [Kesh]
gv: shawn's document needs a link
21:22:22 [Kesh]
wendy: provided link, but not incorporated -- will find that ..
21:22:48 [Kesh]
js: EO page is empty for wcag
21:22:54 [Kesh]
wendy: captured that already
21:23:01 [Kesh]
gv: any more commnets
21:23:21 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, mute me
21:23:21 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:23:30 [Kesh]
wendy: the change I made to eo, I left link, and then after that put in note "start with starting resource"
21:23:35 [Kesh]
gv: 2.2, moving on
21:23:52 [Kesh]
dm: 1.4 there is a period missing after one sentence
21:24:12 [Kesh]
1.4 very first benefit, first sentence last paragraph
21:24:23 [Kesh]
gv: search for "visual representation of information"
21:24:27 [Kesh]
wendy: been caught
21:24:33 [Kesh]
gv: 2.2:
21:25:04 [Kesh]
gv: note that the guideline is time limits, first sc is timeouts, and then moves on to time limits
21:25:11 [Kesh]
js: is that a problem?
21:25:19 [Kesh]
gv: no - just noting it.
21:25:34 [Kesh]
gv: question whether guideline is timeout or not -- answer was no from past.
21:25:43 [Kesh]
gv:just highlighting
21:25:54 [Kesh]
gv: 2.3 any questions?
21:26:44 [Kesh]
gv: by the way, as a warning, pattern has turned out to be an international issue, so we will reflect it in the guidelines
21:26:54 [Yvette_Hoitink]
21:27:00 [Kesh]
gv: in new guidelines, the US flag no longer violates it.
21:27:00 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:27:00 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:27:26 [Kesh]
folks, who is doing the queue?
21:27:52 [Kesh]
wendy: when you say "pattern" -- spatial pattern
21:28:07 [Kesh]
gv: internation guidelines for spacial pattern -- we can just take it out
21:28:45 [Kesh]
wendy: everything in this definition goes away completely and is replaced by a note?
21:28:57 [Kesh]
gv: yes, all the way down to
21:29:41 [Kesh]
yh: the guidelines 2, level 1, sc 1 (2.3) it says 'is marked in way that the user ...' needs ..
21:30:01 [Kesh]
gv: thanks to proofreaders ... a lot of edits have been caught.
21:30:10 [Kesh]
yh: the text that it links to has the same error
21:30:12 [Kesh]
gv: got
21:30:13 [Kesh]
21:30:33 [Kesh]
wendy: is marked in a way that the user ....
21:30:35 [Kesh]
gv: 2.3?
21:30:39 [Kesh]
gv: 2.4?
21:30:52 [Kesh]
gv: all right
21:30:58 [Kesh]
gv: 2.5 -- any questions?
21:31:24 [Kesh]
gv: try and think of something for level 1 for 2.5 for a thanksgiving assignment to everyone -- through markup, or stuff like that?
21:31:46 [Kesh]
gv: we are on to techniques -- sir gallahad
21:32:17 [Kesh]
Michael Cooper you're on.
21:32:37 [Kesh]
are you there, Michael?
21:33:01 [bengt]
micahael !!
21:33:17 [bengt]
if I spell it right :)
21:33:29 [bengt]
first word is name it pings
21:33:42 [Kesh]
21:33:48 [Kesh]
21:34:07 [Kesh]
gv: does anyone have any problems with current html tech doc?
21:34:36 [Kesh]
kesh -- graceful degradation out?
21:36:02 [Kesh]
wendy: yes, it has been removed. graceful and degrade do not appear in html techniques -- graceful transform ..
21:36:11 [Kesh]
wendy: I can change the task
21:36:34 [Kesh]
gv: what are we changing?
21:36:43 [Kesh]
wendy: that makes sense?
21:37:30 [Kesh]
gv: with the stylesheet
21:38:37 [Kesh]
kesh: just want to add comment that pages working without scripting and/or css is still not ok with me.
21:38:51 [Kesh]
kg: graceful transformation issue -- comment, so we can move on.
21:39:10 [Kesh]
gv: we are kind of operating under the assumption that UA supports scripting ...
21:39:18 [Kesh]
gv: we still have some questions to work out around that.
21:39:39 [Kesh]
gv: scripting -- other than this same issue
21:39:45 [Kesh]
gv: any questions on general techniques?
21:39:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:39:52 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
21:39:57 [Kesh]
dm: I filed some bugs, but not for today.
21:40:12 [Kesh]
js: lots of bugs, will need an overhaul.
21:40:17 [Kesh]
yh: not fond of layout
21:40:30 [Kesh]
yh: difficult to navigate -- doesn't make sense. mailed it out today.
21:40:46 [Kesh]
yh: i didn't include ALL problems, 'cause could not be fixed in this draft.
21:40:53 [Kesh]
yh: very redundant.
21:41:10 [Kesh]
yh: is this just a test to see how this works, or is this really the way we want this document to be
21:41:38 [Kesh]
ben: this is first time we have reviewed with wg -- it's an evolving thing; I am working with your comments -- how we use the
21:41:47 [Kesh]
... markup is still under construction
21:42:04 [wendy]
degrade gracefully is fixed:
21:42:30 [Kesh]
js: I would like to see us get to a point where we do not require a user of our guidelines to understand all of our decisions about organization
21:42:54 [Kesh]
js: but we are not quite ready for that design challenge, 'cause content is not there. but I agree with yvette.
21:43:07 [Kesh]
yh: so that's a challenge for us
21:43:18 [Kesh]
ben: that's first time I have gotten feedback -- so that is good.
21:43:30 [Kesh]
yh: I was new to it, first time trhough all together.
21:43:34 [Kesh]
21:43:39 [Kesh]
q- Y
21:43:56 [Kesh]
gv: we have hit the end of the agenda --ready to ship
21:43:57 [Zakim]
21:44:02 [Kesh]
gv: anyone have any other topics?
21:44:47 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, ??P2 is Gian
21:44:47 [Zakim]
+Gian; got it
21:46:22 [Yvette_Hoitink]
21:46:59 [Yvette_Hoitink]
q+ to say " is a dead link"
21:47:18 [Yvette_Hoitink]
zakim, unmute me
21:47:18 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
21:47:55 [Kesh]
wendy: as of right now, 1.2 is specifically related to audio and video
21:48:20 [Kesh]
wendy: and we should change the definition to reduce confusion
21:48:42 [Kesh]
wendy" the main question was does anyone on the call has any general concerns or we are heading in the wrong direction, please let us know
21:48:52 [Kesh]
gv: need to say 'as used in this standard
21:52:25 [Kesh]
gv: calling it:
21:52:48 [Kesh]
gv: multimedia for the purpose of this guideline is an audio-visual presentation
21:53:06 [Kesh]
can someone minute for me -- I need to go potty? :-)
21:53:08 [Yvette_Hoitink]
ack john
21:53:30 [Yvette_Hoitink]
sure, I'll do it
21:53:39 [Kesh]
thanks, Yvette. I will be right back.
21:53:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
ack y
21:53:42 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to say " is a dead link"
21:54:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
yh: there is a dead link
21:54:54 [Yvette_Hoitink]
wc: that is correct, they are links to documents that will be published tomorrow
21:55:07 [Yvette_Hoitink]
wc: we need to link to the dated URI
21:56:57 [Yvette_Hoitink]
jw: suggestion for editors: give priority to terms that are least well known
21:57:21 [David]
21:57:24 [Yvette_Hoitink]
jw: terms that are specialist terms are more likely to be checked and at least need to exist
21:57:30 [Yvette_Hoitink]
q+ david
21:57:41 [Yvette_Hoitink]
ack jason
21:58:02 [Yvette_Hoitink]
jw: Thanks to Wendy and Gregg for work in last days
21:58:07 [Yvette_Hoitink]
jw: *cheer*
21:58:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
ack lore
21:58:18 [wendy]
thanks to ben!!!
21:58:26 [Yvette_Hoitink]
21:58:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
lgr: we now hold plugins to higher standards to browsers?
21:58:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]
scribe apologizes to Ben :-)
21:59:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
ack david
21:59:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
david: 'information and
21:59:50 [Yvette_Hoitink]
david: 'information' and 'functionality' should be defined
21:59:58 [Yvette_Hoitink]
gv: anything else?
22:00:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
all: *silence*
22:01:03 [Kesh]
thanks Yvette
22:01:08 [Yvette_Hoitink]
gv: reward: get off 30 minutes early :-)
22:01:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
22:01:17 [Kesh]
gv: anything else to add?
22:01:25 [Kesh]
gv: I would like to thank all those who have reviewed
22:01:50 [Kesh]
gv: thanks to proofreaders, reading ahead, and Ben and Wendy for all of the key-pounding they have been doing
22:02:00 [Kesh]
gv: thanks to Michael for techniques moving forward
22:02:07 [Kesh]
gv: no meeting next week
22:02:15 [Kesh]
gv: it's turkey day in the US
22:02:24 [Kesh]
gv: but week after -- twice as fast
22:02:57 [Kesh]
jason: gv can be something big and difficult on the agenda to get us all thinking.
22:03:01 [Zakim]
22:03:05 [bengt]
22:03:08 [bengt]
22:03:08 [Zakim]
22:03:09 [Zakim]
22:03:09 [Zakim]
22:03:10 [Zakim]
22:03:10 [ChrisR]
multimedia - review of John Water's film 'Polyester', filmed in "odorama"
22:03:11 [Zakim]
22:03:11 [Zakim]
22:03:11 [Kesh]
gv: everybody, enjoy, relax, and get to work
22:03:12 [Zakim]
22:03:13 [Zakim]
22:03:15 [Zakim]
22:03:17 [Zakim]
22:03:19 [Zakim]
22:03:19 [Kesh]
bye all!
22:03:21 [Zakim]
22:03:22 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
22:03:23 [Zakim]
22:03:23 [wendy]
zakim, make log world
22:03:24 [Kesh]
Kesh has left #wai-wcag
22:03:25 [Zakim]
22:03:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make log world', wendy
22:03:29 [Zakim]
22:03:30 [wendy]
rrsagent, make log world
22:03:47 [Yvette_Hoitink]
Yvette_Hoitink has left #wai-wcag
22:03:49 [Zakim]
22:03:50 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:03:51 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.267.983.aaaa, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Alex_Li, Wendy, John_Slatin, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, Bengt_Farre, David, Neil?, Kerstin, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
22:03:53 [Zakim]
... Matt, Michael_Cooper, Gregg_and_Ben, Lisa, Bengt, Gian
22:03:55 [wendy]
zakim, bye
22:03:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
22:03:59 [wendy]
RRSAGent, bye
22:03:59 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items