19:56:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
19:56:36 <Stuart> zakim, this will be tag
19:56:36 <Zakim> ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()2:30PM scheduled to start 26 minutes ago
19:59:19 <Chris> Chris has joined #tagmem
19:59:50 <timbl> timbl has joined #tagmem
20:00:47 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()2:30PM has now started
20:00:55 <Zakim> +Stuart
20:02:38 <Zakim> +TimBL
20:02:46 <Zakim> +DanC
20:03:24 <Chris> zakim, dial chris-617
20:03:24 <Zakim> ok, Chris; the call is being made
20:03:25 <Zakim> +Chris
20:03:49 <Stuart> zakim, who is here?
20:03:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Stuart, TimBL, DanC, Chris
20:03:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see timbl, Chris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, noah, DanC, Ian
20:05:04 <Chris> meeting: TAG telcon
20:05:09 <Chris> chair: Stuart
20:05:16 <Chris> Scribe: Chris
20:05:28 <Chris> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/11/08-tag
20:05:47 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/11/08-tag (PR is out! woohoo!)
20:06:07 <Chris> Stuart: WebArch PR is out! Woohoo!
20:06:26 <Zakim> +??P29
20:06:31 <Chris> Stuart: Focus this week is media types
20:07:00 <Stuart> zakim, ??P29 is Paul
20:07:00 <Zakim> +Paul; got it
20:07:10 <Chris> zakim, who is here?
20:07:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Stuart, TimBL, DanC, Chris, Paul
20:07:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see timbl, Chris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, noah, DanC, Ian
20:08:16 <Chris> DanC moves to adjourn on lack of quorum
20:08:21 <Chris> Topic: Meetings
20:08:24 <DanC> I didn't actually so move
20:08:34 <Chris> sorry, I thought you did
20:08:34 <paulc> paulc has joined #tagmem
20:08:41 <DanC> I'm at risk for the 15th due to family foo
20:08:50 <Chris> Stuart: Who can make next week
20:08:56 <Chris> Paul: Checking
20:09:17 <Chris> Chris: Can't make it, f2f
20:09:26 <Chris> Paul: Can make it
20:09:53 <Chris> Stuart: should we have the meeting
20:10:01 <Chris> Paul: offer to chair
20:10:09 <Chris> Stuart: can you do the agenda
20:10:16 <Chris> Paul: Yes, may need a little help
20:10:27 <Chris> Stuart: Chair for f2f meeting
20:11:01 <Chris> DanC: Offers to do floor control but not to do an Agenda
20:11:30 <Chris> Paul: Suggests Norm and Paul, will discuss in next 24 hours
20:11:59 <Chris> Stuart: Can attend remotely, phone or video
20:12:27 <Chris> Paul: Do we have detailed arrangements for f2f?
20:12:40 <Chris> DanC: not complely
20:12:42 <Zakim> +Roy
20:12:58 <Chris> PaulC: Should we switch to MIT video conf if available?
20:13:15 <Chris> Stuart: Can attend overlap in working day plus a little early evening
20:13:20 <DanC> " 29 November, Stata Center, D507;  30 November, Stata Center, 346" -- an internal page
20:13:46 <Chris> ACTION Stuart to determine video facilities at his end
20:14:10 <Chris> TimBL: We have voip and isdn set up, in Stata center, one particular room set up
20:14:41 <Chris> ACTION: Paul look into Stata center video facilities
20:14:51 <Chris> ACTION: Stuart to determine video facilities at his end
20:15:05 <Chris> Stuart: Scribe for next week?
20:15:14 <Chris> DanC: at risk for next week
20:15:29 <Chris> Roy: At Apachecon, may be able to attend, not scribe
20:15:52 <Chris> Stuart: leave scribe to now
20:16:11 <Chris> ACTION: Norm and paul, do meeting page and consider split chairing
20:16:25 <Chris> Topic: Meeting records
20:16:54 <Chris> Stuart: accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Oct/0163.html as true record?
20:17:08 <Chris> DanC: did Norm have an action there?
20:17:13 <Chris> No, it turns out
20:17:59 <Chris> No objections, so resolved
20:18:09 <Chris> Topic: Issues List maintenance
20:18:18 <Roy> Roy has joined #tagmem
20:18:50 <Chris> Paul: While doing monthly report, issus were not up to date, Chris reminded me of a findingwe had issued. public uses that list, had to track through minutes
20:19:07 <Chris> Paul: Important to make a conscious decsion how to track ongoing work
20:19:19 <Chris> Paul: Ian used to do this, what do we do now.
20:19:41 <Chris> DanC: Ian suggested taking the HTML and edit it, to include decisions
20:19:51 <Chris> Paul? Pointer to the most recent finding?
20:19:55 <Chris> DanC: not sure
20:20:15 <Chris> Stuart: There is a separate findings page
20:20:20 <DanC> (the findings page was created against my advice. hmm.)
20:20:41 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/findings
20:21:17 <Chris> DanC: (scribe missed)
20:21:55 <Chris> Paul: Dan and Chris are splitting some of the things Ian did?
20:22:12 <Chris> Chris: Offers to update findings page if needed
20:22:27 <Chris> Stuart: No one is familiar with the exit system ia was using
20:22:36 <Chris> DanC: We could just create HTML
20:22:46 <Chris> Stuart: Someone needs to look after it
20:23:02 <Chris> DanC: willing to split task with Chris
20:23:08 <Chris> Chris : OK
20:23:27 <Chris> Regrets+: Noah
20:23:40 <Chris> Topic: Monthly report
20:23:52 <Chris> Stuart: Thanks for most recent onthly report, paul
20:24:36 <Chris> Paul: Slides for AC meeting, what did we decide to do slides or to give up the slot and do a brief report
20:24:43 <Chris> DanC: I recall we did, yes
20:24:55 <Chris> Paul:So if no slot, don't need slides
20:25:03 <Chris> Stuart: Yes, i recall now
20:25:15 <DanC> "There was little support for doing a TAG panel at the AC." -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag.html#tagac
20:25:47 <Chris> Paul: We want time on TP but AC is all up to date on WebArch review
20:26:23 <Chris> ACTION: Stuart: respond to Ians request for slides clarifying we don't expect a panel slot
20:26:53 <Chris> Topic: TP liaisons
20:27:00 <Chris> Stuart: no progress this week
20:27:19 <Chris> DanC: Double booked, Data Access and TAG
20:28:07 <Chris> Stuart; for TP we were flexible about when on Mon/Tue but not on moving to Thu/Fri; only want half a day
20:28:32 <Chris> Paul: Does it stil lmake sense?
20:28:46 <Chris> Chris: Yes, starting wor on AWWW 2.0
20:28:56 <Chris> Stuart: And introducing new TAG members
20:29:02 <Chris> Topic: TAG charter
20:29:10 <Chris> Stuart: Now out for AC review
20:29:35 <Chris> Stuart: Need to track review comments
20:30:02 <Chris> Paul: Thanks the Team for the review comments before AC review
20:30:19 <paulc> Thanks to team for their feedback on TAG charter comments.
20:30:40 <noah> Noah thanks Ian and others for, prior to the AC review,  attending to some of the concerns that I and IBM had raised.
20:31:33 <Chris> Topic: WebArch Publication
20:31:43 <Chris> Paul: what about editorial comments ?
20:32:02 <Chris> DanC: Transition meeting was 90minutes plus, lots of discussion
20:32:27 <Chris> DanC: Deadline is closing a couple days earlier, apart from that same as the plan of record
20:32:44 <Chris> DanC: Comm Team decided not to extend after AC meeting
20:33:13 <Chris> DanC: comments , will deal with in due course
20:33:33 <Chris> Dan: sent mail, please look at it
20:33:41 <Chris> Stauart: leave for next week
20:33:59 <Chris> DanC: Aganda request, specific comments on PR
20:34:32 <Chris> ACTION: Paul put discussion of PR comments on the agenda next week
20:35:22 <Chris> Chris: where does call for testimonials go?
20:35:35 <Chris> DanC: Its in the WBS form, already done
20:36:14 <Chris> Chris: OK, my concern that we ask in time
20:36:42 <Chris> Paul: Testimonials from non W#C Members, eg Roy?
20:36:57 <Chris> DanC: Roy would be a n easily arguable exception to this
20:37:02 <Chris> Roy: Okay
20:37:43 <Chris> DanC: Although from Day, that might relate to whether/when they join W3C
20:37:49 <Chris> Dan: Translations of AWWW
20:38:19 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Translation/
20:38:36 <Chris> Chris: (explains Ivan Hermans translation RDF suooper thingy)
20:38:56 <Chris> Stuart: How do they happen?
20:39:03 <Chris> Chris: mailing list for this
20:39:07 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2003/03/Translations/byTechnology?technology=27-pubrules-html
20:39:24 <Stuart> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag.html#plan234
20:40:44 <Chris> Chris: Does WBS ask for multilingual testimonials? We do not ever translate testimonials
20:41:04 <Chris> Chris: Useful to clarify this
20:41:25 <Chris> ACTION; Chris to edit WBS form to clarify we invite multilingual testimonials
20:41:34 <Chris> ACTION: Chris to edit WBS form to clarify we invite multilingual testimonials
20:41:47 <Chris> tuart: Anything else to do?
20:42:06 <Chris> DanC: Scare up testimonials and reviews is always a good idea
20:42:32 <Chris> DanC: hope thatcomments can be justified in terms of decisions already made
20:43:23 <DanC> (ftf BRS where timbl attended remotely is where we figured out "namespace document" text, says PC. thx)
20:44:00 <Chris> (discussion of canada/us curency wrt Paul and Dan's bet)
20:44:33 <Chris> Topic: Media Types related issues
20:44:47 <DanC> (webarch call for review WBS form is http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/webarch200411/ , member-only, fyi)
20:44:48 <Chris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Nov/0027.html
20:44:58 <Chris> Chris: I sent a mail shortly before the telcon
20:45:12 <DanC> wow! what a collection of code-words! "3023 update (was Re: Agenda TAG Telcon: 8th Nov 2004)"
20:46:50 <Chris> Chris: (reads mail)
20:47:10 <Chris> DanC: "xml encoding declaration and
20:47:10 <Chris> the charset (if supplied) should match" needs to be a MUST
20:51:58 <Chris> Chris: (talks to fast to minute, but most is in the email)
20:52:53 <Chris> ACTION: Roy, point to a constraint on registering media types not to duplicate information easily discoverable from content
20:53:19 <Chris> Roy: Security checkers have to understand both and enforce both
20:53:42 <Chris> TimBL: At root, is XML a sequence of characters or a sequence of self describing bytes
20:54:21 <Chris> TimBL: Very nice that XML is self describing in that way, defines as a sequence of bytes, self describing character encoding
20:55:06 <Chris> Chris: Much easier on authoring tools to deal with a single in band mechanism rather than an undocumented, per server, out of band mechanism
20:57:31 <Chris> Paul: WebArch 1 and Finding both say the charset param is authoritative so rewriting is needed whan saving to disk
20:57:44 <Chris> Start AWW says its an error if they disagree
20:57:59 <DanC> (i heard Stuart refer to "our finding", not AWWW)
20:59:42 <Chris> Chris: concend with DSig and UTF-8 as required by canonical XML ; proxies should not break signed content
21:02:44 <Roy> http://www.docbook.org/specs/cd-docbook-docbook-4.3.html#media-type-registration
21:02:50 <Roy> oops
21:02:54 <Chris> Instructions to subscribe
21:02:55 <Chris> http://www.imc.org/ietf-xml-mime/index.html
21:04:04 <Chris> Topic: http://www.imc.org/ietf-xml-mime/index.html
21:04:29 <Chris> So this is the issue that impacts WebDAV
21:04:40 <Stuart> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#putMediaType-38
21:04:55 <Chris> TimBL: WebDAV works on bits, including a fileneame, no metadata is transferred
21:05:23 <Chris> Roy: distinguishes between save and sending properties
21:05:34 <Stuart> ack dan
21:05:43 <Chris> DanC; Can we get QA to look at this and see what implementations do
21:06:33 <DanC> CL: there seem to be 2 ways to update the web:
21:07:07 <DanC> ... W3C seems to advocate updating with PUT, while the rest of the world seems to use ftp/scp to update the bits, and the metadata gets done some other way
21:07:20 <DanC> ... WEBDAV seems to be a protocol for updating the latter model
21:07:28 <DanC> s/for updating/for automating/
21:08:04 <DanC> ... [missed some]... [something] lets you transfer a MIME type and then thorws it away.
21:08:17 <Chris> WebDAV throws it away
21:08:29 <DanC> ... Jigsaw handles this better: makes an exception [missed some]
21:09:19 <DanC> RF: the WebDAV protocol doesn't say to throw away the media type. it's unfortunate that some servers to that.
21:09:20 <Chris> Jigsaw lets you send metadata, and makes a per-resource override if needed so that the requested media type is n fact used
21:09:49 <Chris> Chris: gets the impression some email discussion on this would help
21:11:43 <Chris> DanC: who cares? Is this architecxtre or software engineering
21:12:17 <Chris> Stuart: so is it implemented consistently?
21:13:56 <Chris> DanC: we need more implementstion experience to discuss this 
21:14:37 <Chris> Stuart: Staw poll on asking qawg
21:15:18 <DanC> a few in favor
21:15:40 <DanC> noone spoke actively against (the poll faded out a bit)
21:15:46 <Chris> Roy: might be moot or overtaken by metadata and URIs. Generalised to ref to metadata in messages, not just requests or one type of request. Already covered?
21:15:56 <Chris> Stuart: Or content-type overrride
21:17:52 <Chris> ACTION: Chris explain in more detail in emailabout ftf modelvs put model wrt metadata and what is being modelled; one resource or the start and end of a workflow
21:17:58 <Zakim> -Paul
21:19:15 <Chris> Meeting adjourned at t+79
21:19:19 <Zakim> -TimBL
21:19:20 <Zakim> -Roy
21:19:21 <Chris> zakim, bye
21:19:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tagmem
21:19:21 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Stuart, TimBL, DanC, Chris, Paul, Roy
21:19:32 <Chris> rrsagent, pointer?
21:19:32 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T21-19-32
21:19:37 <Chris> rrsagent, bye
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paul look into Stata center video facilities [1]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-14-41
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Stuart to determine video facilities at his end [2]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-14-51
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Norm and paul, do meeting page and consider split chairing [3]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-16-11
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Stuart: respond to Ians request for slides clarifying we don't expect a panel slot [4]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-26-23
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paul put discussion of PR comments on the agenda next week [5]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-34-32
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to edit WBS form to clarify we invite multilingual testimonials [6]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-41-34
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roy, point to a constraint on registering media types not to duplicate information easily discoverable from content [7]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T20-52-53
21:19:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris explain in more detail in emailabout ftf modelvs put model wrt metadata and what is being modelled; one resource or the start and end of a workflow [8]
21:19:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/08-tagmem-irc#T21-17-52