19:00:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
19:00:36 <Chris> zakim, call chris-617
19:00:36 <Zakim> sorry, Chris, I don't know what conference this is
19:00:41 <Noah> zakim, who is here?
19:00:41 <Zakim> sorry, Noah, I don't know what conference this is
19:00:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Noah, Stuart, Chris, Norm, timbl_, DanC
19:00:43 <Chris> zakim, this will be tag
19:00:43 <Zakim> ok, Chris, I see TAG_Weekly()2:30PM already started
19:00:46 <Chris> zakim, call chris-617
19:00:46 <Zakim> ok, Chris; the call is being made
19:00:50 <Zakim> +Chris
19:00:50 <Noah> zakim, who is here?
19:00:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see TimBL, [IBMCambridge], Chris
19:01:03 <Noah> zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me
19:01:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Noah, Stuart, Chris, Norm, timbl_, DanC
19:01:14 <Zakim> +Norm
19:01:16 <Zakim> +Noah; got it
19:01:29 <Chris> Meeting: TAG telcon
19:01:35 <Chris> Chair: Stuart
19:01:35 <Zakim> +Stuart
19:01:40 <Chris> Scribe: Chris
19:01:49 <Zakim> +DanC
19:02:07 <Chris> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/25-tag
19:02:18 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
19:02:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see TimBL, Noah, Chris, Norm, Stuart, DanC
19:03:23 <Chris> Regrets: none
19:03:29 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:03:43 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Oct/att-0111/_tag.html OK by me as a record of 18 Oct telcon
19:03:44 <Chris> Zakim, Microsoft holds Paul
19:03:44 <Zakim> sorry, Chris, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
19:04:05 <tagmem> tagmem has joined #tagmem
19:04:08 <Noah>  Zakim, [Microsoft] holds Paul
19:04:08 <Zakim> +Paul; got it
19:04:21 <Chris> Topic: meetings
19:04:41 <Chris> Resolved: accept minutes  of 18th October telcon
19:04:48 <Chris> Topic: Tag summaries
19:05:16 <Chris> PC: was not able to get them done, but AC chairs etc will be done later today
19:05:36 <Chris> PC: rest of summary depends on what happens tday
19:05:43 <Chris> s/tday/today
19:05:43 <DanC> q+
19:05:50 <Chris> rrsagent, pointer?
19:05:50 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/10/25-tagmem-irc#T19-05-50
19:06:05 <Chris> Dan: Does Steve know that it might be late?
19:06:28 <Chris> Paul: Deadline is 28th
19:06:36 <Chris> Topic: Staff content
19:07:05 <Chris> Timbl: we don't have a spare, so Dan and Chris will share this task
19:07:27 <Norm> +1 to Dan and Chris for volunteering
19:07:27 <Chris> Timbl: Working on tools like issue tracking that will help TAG and WGs alike
19:07:42 <DanC> 1Nov ok by me
19:07:43 <Chris> Topic: Upcoming telcons
19:07:59 <Chris> Stuart: Any regrets?
19:08:32 <DanC> Noah Note early regrets for 2 weeks out on Nov8.
19:08:35 <Chris> people consult agendas and mutter
19:08:57 <DanC> PC at risk due to travel, but plans to attend 1 Nov
19:09:12 <Noah> Actually, let's make the probably regrets.  Schema is meeting West Coast;  I may be able to slip away for the call.
19:09:22 <DanC> oh yeah... I'd rather spend the 1 Nov slot on a director's decision call.
19:09:51 <Chris> Stuart: volunteer for scribe?
19:09:56 <Chris> Noah i will do it
19:10:04 <Chris> Topic: TAG charter
19:11:34 <Chris> Noah: I sent in comments, to the tag list
19:11:53 <Zakim> +Roy
19:11:53 <Chris> Stuart: coments are individual Members, not a TAG consensus.
19:12:13 <Chris> Stuart: everyone okay with that
19:12:19 <Chris> Dan: okay I guesss
19:12:24 <Chris> Roy joins
19:12:55 <Chris> Topic: Review of 2nd Last Call Document (30-45mins)
19:13:22 <Chris> Norm: made a draft 19 Oct, produced another on 21sy that included comments arising
19:13:37 <DanC> q+ to ask if Roy's most recent comments were before or after the 21Oct draft
19:13:40 <Chris> s/21sy/21st/
19:13:51 <Roy> Roy has joined #tagmem
19:14:07 <Chris> Dan: Comments from Roy, before or after 21st draft?
19:14:07 <timbl_> timbl_ has left #tagmem
19:14:28 <DanC> Subject: 	comments on NM mods: sec 2.4.1
19:14:28 <DanC> Date: 	Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:01:55 -0700
19:14:43 <Chris> Norm: did best to incorporate these
19:14:51 <Chris> Roy: additional comments after
19:14:55 <DanC> Subject: 	Re: CVS Notification of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/webarch/webarch.html
19:14:55 <DanC> Date: 	Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:54:33 -0700
19:15:19 <Chris> Norm: no recollection of that
19:15:27 <timbl_> timbl_ has joined #tagmem
19:15:30 <Chris> Paul: Subject says CVS notification ...
19:15:35 <Stuart> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2004Oct/0075.html
19:16:24 <Chris> Norm: can't find it. Oh well
19:16:46 <Noah> q+ To say I think we are getting closer to consenus on 10/21 draft
19:16:53 <DanC> ack danc
19:16:53 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask if Roy's most recent comments were before or after the 21Oct draft
19:16:57 <Chris> Stuart: Decision to be made, move forward on 19th or 21st? The latter includes material fro Noah
19:17:18 <Chris> Noah: Having read Roys comments, i sense we are converging
19:17:36 <Chris> 19-October-2004 Editors Draft
19:17:43 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20041019/
19:17:53 <Chris> 21-October-2004 Editors Draft 
19:18:00 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20041021/
19:18:02 <Chris> diff
19:18:08 <Chris> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20041021/diff-20041019.html
19:18:35 <Chris> timbl: have reviewed a little, not recently. 
19:18:50 <Chris> Stuart: what about the octet sequences?
19:19:35 <Chris> timbl: not overly comfortable, changing lots of words for a smal change in the actual ontology
19:19:42 <Chris> q+ Chris
19:20:06 <DanC> q+ to suggest that it's still bits, no? the big change is whether Web resource types shall be Iana super/sub types for all time (hmm.... we have a relevant issue; do we cite it?)
19:20:10 <Chris> Noah: intention is to take it from an implied must to a strog should 
19:20:20 <Chris> Noah: concerns over multiple streams
19:20:46 <Chris> Noah: concerns over future interaction protocol that has a typing mechanism other than internet media types
19:20:51 <Stuart> q?
19:21:08 <Chris> timbl: sorry, not checked if this upsets other things, prepared to trust others here
19:21:09 <Stuart> ack Chris
19:21:18 <Stuart> q- Noah
19:21:27 <DanC> (found it http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#uriMediaType-9 )
19:21:50 <Stuart> ack Dan
19:21:50 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to suggest that it's still bits, no? the big change is whether Web resource types shall be Iana super/sub types for all time (hmm.... we have a relevant issue; do
19:21:53 <Zakim> ... we cite it?)
19:22:06 <Chris> Chris: like the wording about multiple streams, and desirability of a typing mechanism
19:22:41 <Chris> Dan: big change to say we are not grounded i IANA media types for all time
19:22:46 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#uriMediaType-9
19:24:15 <Chris> Dan: prefer to go with 21 draft, assuming we get agreement today. Would have preferred more discussion ideally but there we are
19:24:17 <Norm> ACTION: NW to add a pointer to uriMediaType-9 in the appropriate place
19:24:22 <DanC> (did norm hear my suggestion to cite issue 9 near http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/webarch/#def-representation ?)
19:24:31 <Chris> Stuart: anyone want to speak in favor of the 19th draft
19:24:36 <Chris> no one does
19:24:55 <Noah> Noah Thanks everyone for your careful attention to this rather large issue raised by a late-arriving TAG member.
19:24:56 <Chris> Topic: PR planning
19:25:01 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004lc/prreq.html $Revision: 1.35 $
19:25:09 <Chris> Stuart: Dan sent a pointer to a draft PR request
19:25:54 <Chris> Dan leads us through the text
19:26:26 <Chris> Dan: traditionally this is also an agenda for the Director meeting
19:26:40 <Chris> The changes since last call include a number of editorial modifications, plus:
19:26:40 <Chris>     * refined URI ownership (section 2.2.2) to be more clearly a relationship between identifiers and resources
19:26:40 <Chris>     * softened extensibility (section 4.2)
19:26:40 <Chris>     * clarified "information resource" (section 2.2)
19:26:40 <Chris>     * relaxed constraints on representations (sections 3.2, 2.2, etc.)
19:27:03 <Chris> Dan: director might decide this is too many changes, or not
19:27:25 <Chris> Norm; Dan and I looked over the cange logs and agree those four things are non editorial
19:29:34 <Chris> Dan: In the first last cal, roenberg said some things we didn't really address
19:29:37 <Chris> Thats a pretty broad definition; as it would include resources defined
19:29:37 <Chris> by other URI schemes (such as sip and tel) which I don't think are
19:29:37 <Chris> normally associated with the "web". The intent of the document, I think,
19:29:38 <Chris> is to generally think about resources that correspond to content.
19:30:00 <Chris> Chris: nice to tell tham that we agree or not
19:30:13 <Chris> timbl: this is about inforesources or resources
19:30:42 <Chris> timbl: so prefer to say that we introduce IR to clarify the point that they make
19:31:16 <Chris> chris: sip is an IR
19:31:21 <Chris> Dan: its call setup
19:31:43 <Chris> Roy: its another http-like
19:32:23 <Chris> Timbl: clear that we have already covered this, just have not responded
19:33:05 <Chris> Dan: concern that waiting for a response on that blows our schedule
19:33:29 <Chris> Dan: we issued a second LC so , as they did not respond to that, we assume they have n comments
19:34:29 <tagmem> q+
19:34:59 <tagmem> Please change "tagmeme" to PaulC
19:34:59 <Chris> timbl: a response from them would need a meeting of IAB
19:35:44 <Chris> Chris: Happy to move on, if it does not affect W3C/IETF relations in a negative way'
19:36:05 <Stuart> q+
19:36:07 <Chris> Dan: moving on to formal objections
19:36:22 <Stuart> q- tagmem
19:36:42 <PaulC> q+
19:37:06 <DanC> " LMM wants us to review the URI guideline specs before finishing webarch."
19:37:11 <DanC> RF: there will be a 2nd editiong
19:37:13 <DanC> DC: yeah.
19:37:15 <PaulC> My only concern is that Larry M's issue re "ownership" is the same item that Karl continues to be concerned about.
19:37:56 <Chris> Stuart: substantial interaction with QA is not relected in this document
19:38:35 <Stuart> q- Stuart
19:39:11 <Chris> TAG checks that approbation means An expression of warm approval; praise.
19:39:41 <Chris> Dan: closed loop with karl, checked he was satisfied this morning
19:40:33 <Chris> Paul: dodn't get that from his email
19:40:46 <Chris> Dan: checked with him in IRC and he agreed
19:41:09 <Chris> Dan: discussion with kopecky about use of classes...
19:41:22 <Chris> Stuart: willing to call hiom, know him fairly well
19:41:47 <Chris> Noah: agree
19:42:06 <Chris> Noah: we cshould contact him formally to see if he wants to make a formal objection
19:42:40 <Chris> Roy: responded to Myriams comment, its now closed
19:42:43 <DanC> closed. non-auth... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webarch-comments/2004OctDec/0121.html
19:43:26 <Chris> Dan: now two cases of clear outstanding dissent
19:44:07 <Chris> "While we regret that we were unable to achieve consensus with these reviewers, we suggest that the document is sufficiently valuable to the community in its present state to merit advancement to Proposed Recommendation."
19:44:28 <Chris> Dan: implementation experience - WGs changing specs - what else do we have
19:44:39 <Chris> Stuart: VB on mime type override
19:44:41 <DanC> yes, SMIL WG should say Voice.
19:45:02 <DanC> CL: SVG did likewise
19:45:15 <Chris> Chris: SVG added type attribute after seeing TAG discussions
19:45:19 <DanC> Stuart: WSDL on abstractComponentRef
19:45:24 <Chris> and made it work as TAG suggests
19:45:50 <Chris> Dan: not clear that is succesful impl. exp
19:46:08 <Chris> Dan: XMLP when to use get
19:46:28 <DanC> "4.5.6. XML ID semantics"
19:46:48 <Chris> Paul; not clear that is specific to AWWW
19:46:59 <Chris> Dan: points to AWW 
19:47:02 <Chris> Paul: OK
19:47:20 <Chris> Dan: so is this convincing?
19:47:25 <Chris> Chris: yes
19:47:37 <Chris> Dan goes round the table
19:47:42 <PaulC> Advance to PR: Yes.
19:47:54 <Chris> Noah: abstain, leaning to yes
19:48:03 <Chris> Chris: Yes
19:48:05 <Chris> Norm: Yes
19:48:11 <Chris> Stuart: yes
19:48:33 <Chris> Dan: yes
19:48:36 <timbl_> tim: would abstain from this vote on grounds multiple roles
19:48:42 <Chris> Paul: yes
19:48:48 <Chris> Roy: yes
19:49:03 <Chris> Roy: prefer to incorporate the other changes I sent
19:49:03 <Roy> I'd  prefer to incorporate my changes to Norm's 21 Oct
19:49:15 <Chris> timbl: Abstain
19:49:24 <DanC> PROPOSED: to request PR based on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004lc/prreq.html http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20041021/ subject to changes agreed by RF, NM, NDW.
19:50:06 <DanC> PROPOSED: to request PR based on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004lc/prreq.html http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20041021/ subject to changes agreed by RF, NM, NDW re generalized representation
19:50:43 <Chris> Noah: what do we fall back to?
19:50:58 <Chris> Chris: agreed on 21st already
19:51:08 <Chris> Stuart: puts the question
19:51:19 <Chris> timbl: abstain
19:51:23 <Chris> all others: aye
19:51:32 <Chris> Stuart: woo hoo
19:52:09 <Chris> Norm: deals with practicalities of agreeing on text by phone, by cob tomorrow
19:53:05 <Chris> Norm: draft by cob tomorrow, wil lbug you after cob wednesday
19:53:35 <Chris> Stuart: so we expect a directors meeting next week
19:54:39 <Chris> q+
19:54:51 <Chris> q?
19:55:33 <Stuart> q?
19:55:41 <Paulc> q-
19:55:42 <Stuart> ack Pac
19:55:47 <Stuart> ack Pau
19:55:51 <Stuart> ack Chris
19:57:21 <Chris> discussion o who needs to attend and why
19:57:33 <Chris> timbl steps out to talk to Steve
19:59:10 <Chris> ... but fails to find him
20:00:49 <Chris> Dan: prefers to have Norm there
20:01:01 <Chris> Dan: you may pick up action items
20:01:20 <Chris> Stuart: ok, as far as we can thre. rest of plan to PR...
20:01:24 <Stuart> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag.html#plan234
20:01:27 <Chris> Topic: rest of plan to PR
20:01:50 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag#plan234
20:02:30 <Chris> Dan reviews http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag.html#plan234 and notes we are on track so far
20:03:39 <Chris> >>>06 Dec: English first draft of press release to Comm team
20:03:39 <Chris> >>>08 Dec: Testimonials due
20:03:39 <Chris> >>>08 Dec: English draft of Press Release done
20:03:39 <Chris> >>>13 Dec: Translations of Press Release done
20:04:27 <Chris> Chris: discusses possibility of chair testimonials
20:04:50 <Chris> Dan: who writes first draft?
20:04:55 <Chris> Chris: i do
20:05:34 <Chris> Topic: tech plenary
20:05:44 <Chris> Stuart: we skipped over this
20:06:13 <Chris> Stuart: Dan suggests observers on same basis as last years
20:06:24 <Chris> Dan: who chairs the half day meeting?
20:06:30 <Chris> Stuart: i could do that
20:06:50 <Chris> Dan: so you get to decide about observers
20:07:02 <Chris> Stuart: which liaisons?
20:07:05 <Chris> q+
20:07:18 <Paulc> q+
20:07:38 <Stuart> ack Chris
20:07:42 <Chris> QA, XML Core, 
20:07:43 <Noah> q+ to remind that I've suggest early contact with David Ezell on schemas and versioning
20:07:48 <DanC> q+ to request TAG/ws-addressing contact ASAP
20:08:15 <Paulc> It is likely that XML Schema WG will meet thu-fri.
20:08:18 <Stuart> ack paulc
20:08:26 <Chris> Chris: liais with foks expected to figure largely in AWWW 2
20:08:40 <Chris> Paul; Schema will meet thurs and fri
20:09:00 <Chris> s/meet/likely meet/
20:09:04 <Stuart> ack noah
20:09:04 <Zakim> Noah, you wanted to remind that I've suggest early contact with David Ezell on schemas and versioning
20:09:19 <Chris> Noah: Contact chair of Schema WG to coordinate this
20:09:44 <Chris> Stuart: is this ex/vers special eeting - ie larger than just tag ad schema?
20:10:01 <DanC> yeah, I can see it both ways too.
20:10:27 <Chris> Noah: focus was on versioning - can see this both ways. 
20:10:39 <DanC> "RESOLVED: to meet 1/2 day on 28 Feb 2005 in Boston, MA, USA, and for TAG members to participate on a best-effort basis in liaison meetings throughout the week of the W3C Technical Plenary." -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag
20:10:54 <Chris> Noah: whe are we goin to meet?
20:11:08 <Chris> Stuart: think we prefer first half of the week
20:11:40 <Stuart> q?
20:11:44 <DanC> ack danc
20:11:44 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to request TAG/ws-addressing contact ASAP
20:11:46 <Stuart> ack Dan
20:12:32 <Chris> Dan: WS-addressing and TAG. Recently chartered, charter notes a possible cnflict in early specs re use URIs
20:12:52 <Chris> Stuart: Happy to give Mark Nottingham a call and see if we would like to meet
20:13:10 <Chris> ACTION: Stuart cal mark Nottingham about a meeting
20:13:19 <Chris> Stuart: d a heads-up to chairs?
20:13:26 <Chris> s/d/do
20:13:40 <Chris> Dan: sure, might get a lot of mail
20:13:42 <Chris> Chris: yes
20:14:00 <Chris> Stuart: propose an early adjourn
20:14:19 <Chris> Paul: Norm, what is the plan for revision to extensibility and versioning
20:14:23 <DanC> (oops; we dropped an action...)
20:14:25 <Chris> q+
20:14:49 <DanC> "ACTION NDW: to report workplan and dates for Extensibilty and Versioning work." -- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/10/05-07-tag
20:14:49 <Chris> Norm: doing well but not this week. Next week is likely for Dave and I
20:15:10 <Chris> Paul: so its likely t be ready after we request PR
20:15:12 <DanC> (hmm... actions related to issues might have sorta fallen by the wayside)
20:16:10 <Chris> Chris: reports progress on xml:id
20:16:19 <Chris> Stuart: adjourn!
20:16:21 <Zakim> -DanC
20:16:38 <Chris> rrsagent, pointer?
20:16:38 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/10/25-tagmem-irc#T20-16-38
20:16:45 <Zakim> -TimBL
20:16:54 <Zakim> -Stuart
20:17:38 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:17:44 <Zakim> -Chris
20:18:01 <Roy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2004Oct/0075.html
20:20:45 <Chris> zakim, bye
20:20:45 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were TimBL, Chris, Norm, Noah, Stuart, DanC, Paul, Roy
20:20:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tagmem
20:21:47 <Chris> come on zakim bot
20:21:50 <Norm> Noah: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2004Oct/0075.html
20:22:22 <Chris> checking http://www.w3.org/2004/10/25-tagmem-irc.txt  again
20:22:37 <Chris> oh how i wish, how i wish, i was a fish, a fishy fish
20:22:58 <timbl_> ?
20:23:18 <DanC> it's RRSAgent that writes tagmem-irc.
20:23:22 <DanC> if you dismiss it, it will commit
20:23:26 <Chris> lags
20:23:37 <Chris> rrsagent, bye
20:23:37 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items:
20:23:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NW to add a pointer to uriMediaType-9 in the appropriate place [1]
20:23:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/25-tagmem-irc#T19-24-17
20:23:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Stuart cal mark Nottingham about a meeting [2]
20:23:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/25-tagmem-irc#T20-13-10