17:59:10 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:59:15 Zakim has joined #swbp 17:59:17 hi all 17:59:21 zakim, this will be swbpd 17:59:23 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, RalphS 17:59:25 zakim, this will be swbp 17:59:29 ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD()2:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute 17:59:47 Meeting: SWBPD WG 18:00:23 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Oct/0053.html 18:00:33 RalphS has changed the topic to: SWBPD WG agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Oct/0053.html 18:00:53 aliman has joined #swbp 18:01:03 David_Wood has joined #swbp 18:02:05 Previous: 2004-09-30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Oct/0008.html 18:02:26 ChrisW has joined #swbp 18:03:27 GaryNg has joined #swbp 18:03:35 Natasha has joined #swbp 18:03:42 MIkeU has joined #swbp 18:03:46 zakim, who is here? 18:03:46 sorry, ChrisW, I don't know what conference this is 18:03:47 On IRC I see MIkeU, Natasha, GaryNg, ChrisW, David_Wood, aliman, Zakim, RRSAgent, RalphS, PhilT, aharth, libby, guus 18:04:09 zakim, list conferences 18:04:09 I see SW_BPD()2:00PM, SVG_WG(css tf)2:00PM active 18:04:10 also scheduled at this time is WAI_UAWG()2:00PM 18:04:18 zakim, this is sw_bpd 18:04:18 ok, ChrisW; that matches SW_BPD()2:00PM 18:04:18 Regrets: BenA, BenB, Bernard, Lars Marius, Brian 18:04:54 dlm has joined #swbp 18:05:15 i will be on the telecon a little late. i am finishing another telecon now 18:05:26 zakim, who is on the phone? 18:05:26 On the phone I see +44.774.092.aaaa, ??P1, Darren_Govoni, Guus_Schreiber, Libby_Miller, David_Wood, Evan_Wallace, ??P10, ??P11, [IBM], ??P14, Gary_Ng 18:05:36 This is a test. 18:05:47 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily ChrisW 18:05:47 +ChrisW; got it 18:05:55 [[ 18:05:57 IRC Chat: irc:irc.w3.org (port 6665), #swbp 18:05:57 Web-based IRC (member-only): 18:05:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jun/0033.html 18:05:58 ]] 18:07:55 +??P16 18:08:24 +Andreas_Harth (was ??P1) 18:08:28 zakim, ??P16 is Jeff 18:08:28 +Jeff; got it 18:08:44 dgovoni has joined #swbp 18:09:33 zakim, aaaa is PhilT 18:09:33 +PhilT; got it 18:09:57 zakim, wo is here? 18:09:57 sorry, guus, I do not understand your question 18:10:03 zakim, who is here? 18:10:03 On the phone I see PhilT, Andreas_Harth, Darren_Govoni, Guus_Schreiber, Libby_Miller, David_Wood, Evan_Wallace, ??P10, ??P11, ChrisW, ??P14, Gary_Ng, Jeff 18:10:06 On IRC I see dgovoni, dlm, MIkeU, Natasha, GaryNg, ChrisW, David_Wood, aliman, Zakim, RRSAgent, RalphS, PhilT, aharth, libby, guus 18:10:39 zakim, ??P10 Alistair 18:10:39 I don't understand '??P10 Alistair', ChrisW 18:10:44 zakim, ??P10 is Alistair 18:10:44 +Alistair; got it 18:10:53 zakim, ??P11 is Natasha 18:10:53 +Natasha; got it 18:10:53 zakim, ??p10 is Alistair 18:10:54 I already had ??P10 as Alistair, guus 18:11:32 zakim, who is here? 18:11:32 On the phone I see PhilT, Andreas_Harth, Darren_Govoni, Guus_Schreiber, Libby_Miller, David_Wood, Evan_Wallace, Alistair, Natasha, ChrisW, ??P14, Gary_Ng, Jeff 18:11:33 completed roll call & regrets 18:11:35 On IRC I see dgovoni, dlm, MIkeU, Natasha, GaryNg, ChrisW, David_Wood, aliman, Zakim, RRSAgent, RalphS, PhilT, aharth, libby, guus 18:11:43 proposal to accept minutes of Sept 30 telecon 18:11:58 proposal was 2nd'd and resolved 18:13:18 proposed: accept minutes of Sept 16 with Adams changes (0067) 18:13:45 Jeff has joined #swbp 18:14:19 proposal to accept Sept 16 minutes were second'd 18:14:26 resolved: minutes of Sept 16 accepted. 18:15:28 proposed: next telecon Oct 28th 1400 18:15:43 Proposal for agenda amendments? 18:15:51 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=28&month=10&year=2004&hour=14&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 <-- in your timezone 18:16:47 first agenda item closed 18:16:53 action item review begins 18:18:01 ACTION: jjc to update f2f by tuesday next (DONE) 18:18:01 zakim, list actions 18:18:01 I don't understand 'list actions', ChrisW 18:18:10 rrsagent, list actions 18:18:10 I see 1 open action item: 18:18:10 ACTION: jjc to update f2f by tuesday next (DONE) [1] 18:18:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-18-01 18:18:46 ACTION: BenB read ODM documents (DONE for Guus, continue for Ben) 18:19:31 ACTION: Guus contact Pat and Jos about Web Arch comments (DISCONTINUE) 18:19:44 whenever you are on the f2f topic, could we get confirmation that there will be a high quality speaker phone available in the meeting to facilitate remote participation? 18:20:01 ACTION: Guus send e-mail about telecon attendance, as it's getting low (DONE) 18:20:12 ACTION: Ralph create a WBS registration page for the FtF (DONE) 18:20:39 ACTION: Ralph post his attendance analysis ('good standing' record) to the list (done, but msg needs to get to list) (DONE) 18:21:31 ACTION: gary ng review ODM (CONTINUE) 18:21:39 ACTION: chris welty review ODM (CONTINUE) 18:22:05 ACTION: Ralph to ask WG for feedback on requirement to embed RDF/XML markup in an XHTML document (CONTINUE) 18:22:16 ACTION: Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model. (DONE) 18:22:29 ACTION: darren review DAWG use cases document (DONE) 18:22:52 Tom Adams sends belated regrets. 18:23:01 ACTION: danbri circulate links for his existing feedback/review to dawg (CONTINUE) 18:23:10 ACTION: jjc make a first sketch of short guideline note for using xml schema datatypes (in rdf/owl) (CONTINUE) 18:23:39 ACTION: jjc to send message to XSLT wg and query (DONE) 18:23:46 ACTION: jjc to send message to xmls wg (DONE) 18:23:53 ACTION: libby to summarize ADTF before f2f (DONE) 18:24:06 ACTION: PhilT to summarize interests from UK National Govt (DONE) 18:26:50 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/2ndf2f-b/results 18:29:36 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/ftf-2/ 18:30:33 +??P17 18:31:06 i am on the phone now as well as just irc (deborah mcguinness) 18:31:11 zakim, ??P17 is deb 18:31:11 +deb; got it 18:32:18 docs for the f2f need to be ready by oct 25th 18:32:32 Zakim, mute Alistair 18:32:32 Alistair should now be muted 18:32:46 ..agenda wil contain the list of documents (guus) 18:32:50 zakim, who is talking? 18:33:01 ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: PhilT (4%), Guus_Schreiber (20%), Evan_Wallace (4%), David_Wood (29%), Natasha (4%), Gary_Ng (4%) 18:33:10 4. WEB ARCHITECTURE DRAFT 18:33:23 keep or drop....guss inclined to drop 18:33:30 action is finished 18:33:49 5. ODM / UML ONTOLOGY PROFILE 18:33:56 zakim, who is talking? 18:34:05 Jeff has joined #swbp 18:34:09 ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (14%), Evan_Wallace (4%), Gary_Ng (4%), Jeff (10%) 18:34:31 guus: important contact for this group, good for several of us to review it 18:34:43 ...guus pleased has owl-full and rdfs in revised version 18:35:23 [someone] it seems that they want to ahve a DL model at the centre to sdescribe everythign else in 18:35:48 ...they do describe an abstract model as a superset of all the others, but implementations eeem to be DL-based 18:36:13 ...happy that the scope encourages interop, has well articulated set of requirements 18:36:29 ..one caveat is the core DL representation... 18:36:35 I blieve this is GaryNg 18:37:10 [lost thread there] 18:38:16 evan: the DL metamodel may be dropped/made just an informative annex. not clear if they'll ahve a mapping hub, but if they do (rather than one to one mappings) - looks likie owl-full 18:38:57 garyng: will post detailed questions about it on the list 18:39:18 chris: worth asking [main author] to join a telecon? 18:40:09 action chris ask main author or representative to join a telecon or f2f via phone 18:40:38 ACTION: chrisW ask main author or representative to join a telecon or f2f via phone 18:41:34 zakim, who is talking 18:41:34 I don't understand 'who is talking', ChrisW 18:41:37 zakim, who is talking? 18:41:49 ChrisW, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Evan_Wallace (7%) 18:44:36 ACTION: chrisw to review document - dropped 18:45:49 evan: ODM schedule is now going to take until next calendar year, orginal schedule for revised version was this month 18:46:01 ..they want to work on mappings and profile 18:46:13 agenda item 6 18:46:20 6. Comments to DAWG on RDF Data Access, XQuery, Rules 18:46:57 Apologies: I need to leave now; I'll check the IRC notes later. 18:47:04 -Alistair 18:47:31 zakim, who is here? 18:47:31 On the phone I see PhilT, Andreas_Harth (muted), Darren_Govoni, Guus_Schreiber, Libby_Miller, David_Wood, Evan_Wallace, Natasha, ChrisW, ??P14, Gary_Ng, Jeff, deb 18:47:34 On IRC I see Jeff, dgovoni, dlm, MIkeU, Natasha, GaryNg, ChrisW, David_Wood, aliman, Zakim, RRSAgent, RalphS, PhilT, aharth, libby, guus 18:47:44 [I think mike was wrongly named alistair on phone...] 18:48:01 zakim, ??P14 is Alistair 18:48:01 +Alistair; got it 18:48:03 yup ... maybe I'm ??P14 ? 18:49:16 action: philT look at garyng's message, see what actions if any this wg shoudl take 18:50:14 TF review 18:50:15 7.1 OEP (Deb) 18:50:36 deb: none of us will be physically at f2f, deb happy to participate remotely 18:50:42 PORT TF update link: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Oct/0064.html 18:51:08 thanks for helping libby 18:51:10 deb: telecon - suggestions for new notes mostly form those who were willing to write them 18:51:41 I was minuting outside of irc. :/ 18:52:02 if we're duplicating, I'll stop :) 18:52:20 its fine. I'll collate before posting 18:52:33 ok, thanks 18:52:43 my first time scribing. :) 18:53:00 evan to take lead on part-of notes, alan deb to collaborate 18:54:05 chrisw? 'offered to do some stuff on 'fluents' - properties only true for a certain time. can;t really do it in rdf...4 different ways of doing it, one is reification note 18:54:24 alan rector: leading scholarly note on different approaches ot partof relations 18:54:33 different kinds of part-of relations 18:54:50 ...alan probably can't start it till next year 18:55:17 guus: did you talk about units and measures? 18:55:26 no one took lead on it 18:56:14 deb: lisa kendall at sandpiper has info on modeling units and measures 18:56:40 guus: have candidates from institute on this matter 18:56:40 guus also has someone from his institute who might particpate. needs a separate group? 18:57:53 guus: discuss at f2f in more detail . dave wood agrees 18:58:09 guus: to deb, feedback on sandpiper version 18:58:37 action: chrisw approach sophia about units and measures particpating 18:58:44 guus: invited experts clearly needed for this issue 18:59:10 +Ralph 18:59:23 [apologies for being later than I'd expected] 18:59:53 chris: are you guus interested in a note on numeric ranges? 19:00:16 action chrisw: action to ask guus re numeric ranges (done) 19:01:20 new action: allen to ask about OWL vs. congeneric frame modeling 19:01:40 Jeff has joined #swbp 19:01:53 action guus: note on numeric ranges after the xml datatypes TF has finished 19:03:22 dgovoni has joined #swbp 19:03:25 -ChrisW 19:03:27 -PhilT 19:03:27 action deb: taking lead on ?closing roles? (missed exactly what, sorry) 19:03:48 7.2 PORT (Alistair) 19:03:52 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Oct/0064.html 19:04:14 test 19:04:19 connection, dropped sorry 19:04:24 -Alistair 19:04:28 http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/spec/ 19:04:44 al: with respect to skos-core, 5 prposals on table, all pretty far along with consensus, next couple of weeks action these 19:04:59 after these, can regenerate the spec, workign draft hopefully just after f2f 19:05:26 action: al send update of this message to indicate docs we shoudl read before f2f by 25th oct 19:05:46 http://esw.w3.org/topic/SkosCoreGuideToc 19:05:47 [was it Natasha who dropped off the phone, perhaps?] 19:06:07 al: the other document is the guide (see url above) shoudl have an early draft of that by 25th 19:06:45 ..also been extensive discussion on a couple of issues, esp skos:concxept and owl class or individual relationship: no consensus as yet, hints welcome 19:07:21 ...also how to represent version and change-management in a schema - DC and owl approaches don;t map to the way thesaurus people do it 19:08:04 al: working draft ofvocab spec immediately after f2f, and working draft of guide 2-3 weeeks later 19:08:26 7.3 WordNet (Aldo) 19:08:55 noone here...guus thinks needs a little more effort needed 19:09:16 Guus: with a little effort [on WordNet] we can get a lot done 19:09:31 ACTION: task force planning for wordnet 19:09:57 7.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremey) 19:11:13 ..collaboration being discussed in telecon tomorrow night 19:11:49 7.5 Vocabulary management (TomB) 19:13:41 action chairs: check status of vocab management for f2f 19:13:48 Updated RDF-in-XHTML requirements doc: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2004-10-12-tf 19:13:55 7.6 HTML (Ben) 19:14:21 guus: there seem to be many proposals, are these being reconciled? 19:14:42 david: see ben's document (url above) trying to collase the discussion into one document 19:15:01 http://www.formsplayer.com/notes/rdf-a.html 19:15:02 s/collase/collapse/ 19:15:09 david: two issues, 1) req docs 2) html working group latest proposal 19:15:16 ...trying to have a telecon next week about requirements doc and the html WG's latest proposal (see url above) 19:15:29 guus: input docs for f2f? 19:15:38 david: eric is trying to drive Ben towads final req doc and geting feedback to HTML WG shortly 19:16:25 david thinks there are good enough solutions on the table 19:17:10 ralph: has action to ask this wg of its opinion of importance of syntactic embedding of rdf/xml in xhtml, which was part of the old req doc 19:17:12 old req doc required embedding RDF-XML into XHTML, but perhaps giving up on the idea given other solutions on table 19:18:06 ralph: practicalities of that one might need examining further but in general agrees plenty of solutions on the table 19:18:25 ..we need more TF telecons... 19:18:26 ralph: more telecons needed to prepare for f2f 19:18:33 guus: next one is next week 19:18:48 guus: input by monday on issues and links to docs involved 19:19:14 guus: how are teh decisions arrived at? posteriori 19:19:52 milestone: document describing the various options for the f2f 19:20:20 7.7 ADTF (Libby) 19:20:21 by Oct 25 19:21:24 libby: one option is DOP 19:21:46 ?) 19:21:56 libby: others to describe their own projects 19:22:26 guus: this years semweb conference dominated by demos 19:22:59 libby: provide short descriptions and use vocabulary of DOP 19:23:19 guus: make it semantically searchable 19:23:24 guus: RDF ,etc. 19:23:40 libby: Yes, will use RDF and perhaps other vocabulary 19:23:58 guus: make it a note and things to read before f2f 19:24:23 guus: high on priority list 19:24:27 action libby: make that note into a document to read for the f2f by 25th oct 19:24:39 7.8 Tutorial Page (TomA) 19:24:42 ...leave for now 19:24:45 AOB 19:24:50 tomA regrets 19:24:53 deb: good speaker phone for f2f? 19:24:54 guus: other business.. 19:25:05 speakerphone - yep 19:25:22 guus telecon at f2f likely to be end of the european day 19:25:39 deb expects to join telecon, maybe natasha, maybe chrisW 19:25:45 guus: telecon should occur late in day - European 19:25:53 ralph: people shoudl note of this on the meeting registration 19:26:13 guus: maybe meet in hiroshima 19:26:39 guus: adjorn meeting comments 19:26:41 yes, folks can use the f2f registration page to indicate that they cannot attend f2f but intend to attend by telecon 19:27:00 Thank you for helping Scribe Libby! 19:27:14 -Evan_Wallace 19:27:15 -Gary_Ng 19:27:16 -Alistair 19:27:16 -David_Wood 19:27:19 -Andreas_Harth 19:27:21 meeting adjorns 3:27 EST 19:27:21 -Guus_Schreiber 19:27:24 -deb 19:27:26 [regrets from me for 28 Oct -- we have a W3C workshop that day] 19:27:26 -Darren_Govoni 19:27:31 -Jeff 19:27:33 -Ralph 19:27:38 no prblem dgovoni, hope it didnt make things more difficult! 19:27:41 -Libby_Miller 19:27:42 SW_BPD()2:00PM has ended 19:27:43 Attendees were +44.774.092.aaaa, Darren_Govoni, Guus_Schreiber, Libby_Miller, David_Wood, Evan_Wallace, Gary_Ng, ChrisW, Andreas_Harth, Jeff, PhilT, Alistair, Natasha, deb, Ralph 19:28:05 bye all! 19:28:15 bye al! 19:28:21 zakim, bye 19:28:21 Zakim has left #swbp 19:28:31 dgovoni, this log gets put on the web somewhere 19:28:32 bye 19:28:40 rrsagent, pointer? 19:28:40 See http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-28-40 19:28:46 rrsagent, bye 19:28:46 I see 28 open action items: 19:28:46 ACTION: jjc to update f2f by tuesday next (DONE) [1] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-18-01 19:28:46 ACTION: BenB read ODM documents (DONE for Guus, continue for Ben) [2] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-18-46 19:28:46 ACTION: Guus contact Pat and Jos about Web Arch comments (DISCONTINUE) [3] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-19-31 19:28:46 ACTION: Guus send e-mail about telecon attendance, as it's getting low (DONE) [4] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-20-01 19:28:46 ACTION: Ralph create a WBS registration page for the FtF (DONE) [5] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-20-12 19:28:46 ACTION: Ralph post his attendance analysis ('good standing' record) to the list (done, but msg needs to get to list) (DONE) [6] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-20-39 19:28:46 ACTION: gary ng review ODM (CONTINUE) [7] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-21-31 19:28:46 ACTION: chris welty review ODM (CONTINUE) [8] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-21-39 19:28:46 ACTION: Ralph to ask WG for feedback on requirement to embed RDF/XML markup in an XHTML document (CONTINUE) [9] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-22-05 19:28:46 ACTION: Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model. (DONE) [10] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-22-16 19:28:46 ACTION: darren review DAWG use cases document (DONE) [11] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-22-29 19:28:46 ACTION: danbri circulate links for his existing feedback/review to dawg (CONTINUE) [12] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-23-01 19:28:46 ACTION: jjc make a first sketch of short guideline note for using xml schema datatypes (in rdf/owl) (CONTINUE) [13] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-23-10 19:28:46 ACTION: jjc to send message to XSLT wg and query (DONE) [14] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-23-39 19:28:46 ACTION: jjc to send message to xmls wg (DONE) [15] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-23-46 19:28:46 ACTION: libby to summarize ADTF before f2f (DONE) [16] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-23-53 19:28:46 ACTION: PhilT to summarize interests from UK National Govt (DONE) [17] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-24-06 19:28:46 ACTION: chrisW ask main author or representative to join a telecon or f2f via phone [18] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-40-38 19:28:46 ACTION: chrisw to review document - dropped [19] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-44-36 19:28:46 ACTION: philT look at garyng's message, see what actions if any this wg shoudl take [20] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-49-16 19:28:46 ACTION: chrisw approach sophia about units and measures particpating [21] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T18-58-37 19:28:46 ACTION: chrisw to action to ask guus re numeric ranges (done) [22] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-00-16 19:28:46 ACTION: guus to note on numeric ranges after the xml datatypes TF has finished [23] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-01-53 19:28:46 ACTION: deb to taking lead on ?closing roles? (missed exactly what, sorry) [24] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-03-27-1 19:28:46 ACTION: al send update of this message to indicate docs we shoudl read before f2f by 25th oct [25] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-05-26 19:28:46 ACTION: task force planning for wordnet [26] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-09-31 19:28:46 ACTION: chairs to check status of vocab management for f2f [27] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-13-41 19:28:46 ACTION: libby to make that note into a document to read for the f2f by 25th oct [28] 19:28:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/14-swbp-irc#T19-24-27