08:11:57 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 08:18:37 Zakim this is DAWG 08:18:41 Zakim, this is DAWG 08:18:41 sorry, DanC_lap, I do not see a conference named 'DAWG' in progress or scheduled at this time 08:18:48 q+ 08:18:50 q- 08:20:05 In attendance: DanC, EricP, SteveH, Yoshio, Jean-FrancoisB, KendallC, JanneS, JosDeRoo, DaveB, AndyS 08:21:25 Also: Dirk-W.vanGulik, AlbertoR 08:22:34 agenda requests: tests? implementations? should show up in due course... 08:24:07 --- naming, marketing, intro, abstract 08:24:14 DaveB: Data Access for RDF: Query. DARQ 08:24:22 marketing talk 08:24:36 (there are tools that will help if we do...) 08:24:36 abstract needs to be a seller, since it's the only thing many people will ever see 08:24:46 Topic: naming, marketing, intro, abstract 08:25:14 googlemark possible for "DARQ" 08:27:09 dirk worries that not having "ql" means it's a bit harder to market corporately 08:27:26 DaveB: DARQL could work 08:27:53 pronounced "darkle"@en-uk 08:28:15 too many name changes could be problematic 08:30:55 Current: DARQ & DARP; DARQL, DAQL 08:31:09 and RAQL/RAQP, SWQL, BRQL, RQL, BARQ 08:31:17 we're gonna do a naming poll, apparently 08:31:24 -1 to RQL as too generic for me 08:31:40 ACTION EricP: set up a naming poll 08:31:47 AlbertoR has joined #dawg 08:33:56 DanC: buzzwords: aggregation, distributed systems 08:34:12 Kendall: query language for the Semantic Web. Dirk: yeag 08:34:14 yeah 08:36:00 JFBaget has joined #dawg 08:37:12 Kendall: if we could take the intro of the use cases document and turn it around to be positive... that could work 08:38:51 Janne suggests that we ape the way SQL is pitched 08:39:06 http://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp 08:40:07 DaveB: ... easy access to data... for programmers 08:40:26 s/to data/to rdf data/ 08:40:33 ACTION KendallC: work on an abstract for the spec 08:41:55 Let's talk DAWG services... 08:42:11 +2 from KendallC 08:43:24 DanC shows off some ideas for DAWG-powered services 08:43:30 TAG last call comments thingie 08:45:10 showing http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004lc/ 08:47:58 many interesting data access services won't do arbitrary graph matches in DanC's opinion 08:48:08 GET -H "Accept: application/rdf+xml" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch 08:48:33 the protocol design should (eventually -- no, sooner :>) be able to tell clients what sorts of queries it can handle 08:48:50 which gets several +1s from members 08:49:30 dirkx has joined #dawg 08:49:34 curl --header "Accept: application/rdf+xml" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch 08:51:18 for N3, GET -H "Accept: text/x-n3" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch 08:52:08 DanC - annotea, link to blog world somewhat? 08:52:16 more service ideas: get annotea to do trackbacks using dawg queries, powering the media access use case, for example 08:52:28 annotea server http://iggy.w3.org/annotations 08:53:46 one with a DARQ input field: http://192.6.10.139/annotations2~ 08:53:47 kendall we have walking tours of the District of Columbia (USA) 08:53:59 one with a DARQ input field: http://192.6.10.139/annotations 08:54:00 .. would like to have clients be able to submit queries to that data 08:54:25 creation commons search engine 08:55:14 RobS arrives 08:55:17 ACTION KendallC: talk to creative commons people about this stuff 08:56:07 alberto - newsblender demo 08:56:13 (offline today) 08:56:49 searching news as calendar 08:57:04 ACTION KendallC: expose our walking tour data to darq querying clients 08:57:08 multiple stores 08:57:09 http://demo.asemantics.com/rdfstore/rdql/ 08:57:50 http://jena.hpl.hp.com:2020/books?lang=RDQL&query=SELECT%20?x%20WHERE%20(%3Chttp://example.org/book/book2%3E%20?p%20?o) 08:57:52 http://new.asemantics.com/index.pl (offline at the moment can return RDF/XML, iCal, N-Triples) 08:58:32 braces and brackets 08:58:40 braces={} brackets=() ? 08:59:24 SteveH has 15M triples of CS (??) stuff that will be darq'able at some point 08:59:39 I can add brql to http://www.redland.opensource.ac.uk/contexts?command=rdf-query in a few minutes 09:00:17 DaveB: My worry is to make sure that we also have negative test cases; as otherwise vendors (like us) will essentially do what big customers expect; and make things as close to what their 100.000 ODBC programmers expect. So in not time you'll be forced to accept (' in place of '{' to get the monkeys of your back.. 09:00:28 So do have negative test cases if this is what we really want! 09:00:54 DanC: I'm going to XML 2004. could present "these things are RDF services from DAWG participants... will interoperate soon (if not already)" 09:01:20 UK computer science data: http://cs.aktivespace.org/rdql/ - and UI: http://triplestore.aktors.org/SemanticWebChallenge/CSAKTiveSpace/ 09:01:34 SteveH: thanks 09:02:09 Snarky comment of the day, candidate 1: "H1, learn to use H1" 09:06:00 http://jena.hpl.hp.com:2020/books?lang=fetch&r=http://example.org/book/book2 09:06:10 That's a describe-like query 09:06:25 It gets the object (book) and the author details 09:06:37 DaveB: a part of the foaf world can go up as a public demo 09:08:05 http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/ 09:10:01 RDFLets http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/rdflets.txt 09:11:15 LiSci demo http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/ToxicAssoc0.alg?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup 09:13:01 Other presentation venues: ISWC 04, W3 LifeSci workshop, XML 04, publish something on an O'Reilly site 09:13:13 lifsci http://www.w3.org/2004/07/swls-cfp.html 09:13:18 deadline for papers, yesterday :) 09:13:43 RDFLets: simple RDF based template system which takes as input a RDQL (BRQL?) query, RDF data source and XSLT - the XSLT is applied over the RDF-for-XML (http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/RDF-XML.html) result of the query over the RDF data. 09:15:49 E.g. http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/news/ ( which is behind the http://www.asemantics.com/n/news/ page) - see query and template - data is FROM RDF/XML URL 09:16:06 libby has joined #dawg 09:16:54 The BRQL spec review portion of our show begins now... 09:18:13 Talking now about structure of test cases 09:18:55 AndyS shows http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html 09:22:19 andy, is http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/recording-query-results.html actively following the changes to the schema? 09:22:27 see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ 09:22:30 let's look at "A few simple tests" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html 09:23:52 DaveB: ... problem... I had to have uri-scraping knowledge... which is just wrong 09:25:03 http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/rdf-query-testcases.html 09:25:25 (see Classes - RDF/XML, N-Triples and so on) 09:28:16 Test stuff needs additional work 09:28:54 re:comparison but, it is not that easy when bnodes are involved, I guess 09:29:01 still points out previoud work already done for SquishQL/RDQL testing - http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/summary.html (thanks to Libby/DanBri for summarising) 09:29:24 s/previoud/previous/ 09:33:19 * N3 as vulgar Latin compared to the holy RDF/XML? 09:33:21 q+ 09:36:02 ack andys 09:38:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html 09:41:00 (back on test case stuff: will using the existing xml result set format, which is admittedly not optimized, tie us to the unoptimized version much?) 09:47:41 Conversation about variable prefix choices: 09:47:44 ?foo 09:47:45 $foo 09:47:47 or both? 09:48:09 Main motivation for $foo seems to be to avoid massively installed base of (admittedly) buggy software for stuff like jdbc/odbc (?) 09:48:21 Main motivation for ?foo seems to be momentum 09:48:22 just to be goofy, i added "| 'ñ' Identifier" and it worked 09:48:40 (I hope that's a fair representation, since I sort of care about this.) 09:48:49 existing rdf query (table, select) results can be and are returned through DBI, *ODBC 09:49:05 ericP? I can't read your expression 09:49:56 $foo would allow right the way to ship DAWG/BRQL queries over *existing* DBC interfaces and already deploied software e.g. run DAWG queries inside a M$ Excel spreadsheet 09:49:57 yoshio, you probably need to tell your irc client to use utf-8. i used the ever-popular enya symbol to indicate variables 09:50:11 I'm sorry, but I can't 09:50:38 rob has joined #dawg 09:50:49 rob_ has joined #dawg 10:00:25 I didn't know she has a famous symbol, like Prince. : ) 10:02:13 Hmm, it's been pointed out that my summary -- "buggy software" -- isn't particularly accurate. Oh well, ignore at yr leisure. 10:27:49 AlbertoR: not just DBC; also consider things like IDE's (some of them give you an error when you type somehting which looks like SQL but aint) OR code where the java, c or c++ is pre-prossed by some sql processor - and having both SQL and Java makes it a pain. 10:29:17 dirkx_ has joined #dawg 10:29:31 --- resume from break 10:29:41 EricP: I'm ambivalent on ? or $ [or both?] 10:30:00 AndyS: I see some expectation from our semweb audience for ?foo. on the wire syntax matters 10:30:12 Jos agrees re: ? 10:30:15 as do I 10:30:22 Is it worth going for consenus on just having one and not both? 10:30:23 EricP: not both 10:31:11 DanC let the editor's consider it 10:31:25 ACTION DirkX: provide details about DB interfaces, re ? and $ 10:31:52 Dirk Will send list with usual suspects which are troublesome; postgress, oracle, dbi, jdbc, odbc and the connections to java, perl, c++ et.al. 10:32:20 2.4 10:33:41 q+ to ask (re 2.3) if one can join triples with ";" like in N3? 10:38:02 missing . at end of where { triples . } 10:38:09 is optional, ISSUE 10:38:13 agenda? 10:38:28 let's just use the agenda for these issues 10:38:38 agenda + missing . at end of where { triples . } 10:41:05 pls add defn "RDF term" 10:42:44 2.2 10:43:15 http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#intro introduces Propositions and Assertions 10:44:04 people like accepting RDF term 10:44:10 defining 10:44:17 kendall, specifically 10:45:18 JF - why distinction between query variable and rdf variables? 10:45:31 er, i will accept it as written, now. :> 10:45:39 AndyS - query variables have different range (graph) 10:46:50 if you want to make mathematical defns, please help out 10:46:56 by sending some text to the editors 10:49:04 Yoshio: a query variable is not a name 10:49:15 DanC: the defn of query variable does not constrain anythihng 10:49:33 AndyS: "An RDF Term is a member of the set formed by the union of U, L, V, and B." 10:49:34 discussion of definitions standing alone, or with forward referecnes 10:50:01 for myself, RDF Term is one of (RDF URI Reference, RDF Literal, RDF bnode or Query Variable) 10:50:34 DaveB: yes, that's what my language is supposed to mean. I agree. 10:50:46 "A query variable is a name assinged to a graph" 10:54:33 Alberto - noted B used for bnods and bindings 10:54:40 andys changed it to BNODES 10:54:53 AndyS - mapping for bindings includes allowing variables binding to variables 10:55:23 VAR(b) and VAL(b) 10:56:18 Alberto: noted that the definition of binding B is a function from V to A - but A contains V already - wondered if correct 10:57:06 JFBaget has joined #dawg 10:58:08 AndyS changes RDF Terms to be just Union (RDF URi referneces, literals, bnodes) 10:58:39 questiion about Var(b) what is b? 11:01:03 discussion of definition of Binding 11:01:48 RobS reminds us about binding and binding sets previously discussed 11:02:20 "set of bindings" 11:02:23 has precedence 11:02:53 in UC&R 3.2 11:03:12 AndyS defines 'Binding' as a pair 11:03:37 A binding is a pair x,y where x is a variable and y is an RDF term. 11:04:12 DanC suggests "A substitution" as the name for a "set of bindings" 11:04:51 Definition: A substitution is a finite set (possibly empty) of pairs of the form Xi=ti, where Xi is a variable and ti is a term, and Xi\neq Xj for every i \neq j, and Xi does not occur in tj, for any i and j. 11:05:02 -- from http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/progdocs/plbook/logic.htm 11:06:04 DanC - trying to introduce by example and have the math 11:06:08 nearby 11:07:08 get sec 2 done tonight & tests for review tomorrow? 11:07:26 ACTION AndyS: fix def'ns in sect 2 11:07:44 ... up to 2.2 11:10:48 tests discussion 11:10:48 Zakim, to ask about binding structure in detail 11:10:48 I don't understand 'to ask about binding structure in detail', JanneS 11:10:49 q+ to talk about BRQL syntax 11:10:54 re http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ 11:11:00 editing data, results, query 11:11:08 if agreeing to test, agree to all the syntax 11:11:16 q+ to ask about binding structure 11:11:57 kendall concerned about the xml result binding 11:12:08 in the README? 11:12:31 other document 11:12:46 ack yoshio 11:12:46 Yoshio, you wanted to ask (re 2.3) if one can join triples with ";" like in N3? 11:12:56 Yoshio 2.3 11:13:16 n3 manner lines seperated by . 11:13:47 would like to see that in there 11:13:57 notational convienence, less chars to write 11:13:59 like N3 11:14:09 q+ 11:14:13 (to follow up: the xml language for returning result sets is not part of the test mechanism) 11:14:14 ... peopel expect that 11:15:02 Yoshi, wanted to add a ; 11:15:07 as used in N3 11:15:14 new syntax 11:15:31 q+ to bring up bnodes 11:15:54 as well as , 11:16:15 Yoshi supports ;, . 11:16:49 straw poll re ; summary 5ish for, 4ish against 11:17:06 alberto, don't like the syntax at all 11:17:18 the n3 bits 11:17:49 robS doesn't like n3, not an xml syntax 11:18:11 not that i don't like it; i think it sends a very bad message about interoperability 11:18:26 q? 11:18:38 EricP - people think it's n3, can do other stuff 11:18:43 might think that 11:18:56 bnodes might also be expected 11:19:23 info - rdql doesn't allow bnodes in queries, sort of 11:19:56 straw poll on , - 4ish for, 5ish against 11:20:49 q? 11:20:54 q+ 11:21:15 stay tuned for editor's response 11:21:20 ack steve 11:21:20 SteveH, you wanted to talk about BRQL syntax 11:21:26 q+ yoshio 11:21:33 SteveH - round brackets liked 11:21:44 +1 11:21:52 and don't think the {}s like n3 work well, too much like n3 11:22:13 parenthese () around each triple - liked 11:22:21 (s p o ) (s2 p2 o2) 11:22:31 RobS also agreed 11:22:59 and no outer braces 11:23:11 (SteveH) but don't mind them 11:23:45 dirkx - least surprise works here for the (s p o) form 11:23:53 SteveH - rdql users use this, familioar 11:24:13 AlbertoS - existing rdql impls have converged on syntax mostly like this 11:24:35 AlbertoS supports no n3 syntax, round ()s for nesting and don't use . 11:24:42 usign AND for constraings 11:24:58 where (s p o ) AND ... constriants 11:25:24 there's been rather a lot, from my p.o.v. 11:25:56 AlbertoS - how people mostly write queries today is RDQL, such as on jena lists 11:26:04 (is "the jena mailing list" unambiguous?) 11:26:09 ... PREFIX 11:26:12 jena-dev I assume 11:26:36 are there other jena lists? 11:26:39 AlbertoS - n3 syntax - ; , . {}s and bits 11:26:52 yes, there's a jena list on sourceforge, mostly for the developers 11:27:24 q? 11:27:26 JosD - might conflict with some potential list syntax (not presently in the query language) 11:27:29 PREFIX first can be fine - but the syntax should be RDQL like PREFIX foo FOR and PREFIX FOR 11:27:31 alberto, which jena lists did you have in mind? 11:27:46 jena-dev 11:28:09 AndyS - heard from people that there was no diff between constraints and triple patterns, didn't see why they were separate syntaxes 11:28:20 ... 2) nesting and applied to diff graphs (see tucana0 11:28:28 ... 3) seen no complaints on list 11:28:42 q+ to propose use of []'s for bnodes... expecting few supports(?) 11:29:57 all those ()s are NOISY 11:29:58 are we using the queue or should I jump ion? 11:30:23 Zakim, close the queue 11:30:23 ok, DanC_lap, the speaker queue is closed 11:30:26 ack janne 11:30:26 JanneS, you wanted to ask about binding structure 11:30:37 JanneS binding structures 11:31:05 looking at ?title = "BRQL tutorial" 11:31:09 data t yping info 11:31:13 should be in the test cases 11:31:16 is this an xsd:string 11:31:22 AndyS - no it's an RDF literal 11:31:28 would like datatyping info in the client 11:31:43 ack daveb 11:31:50 should we go to the xml lang issue 11:32:00 AndyS it's an rdf literal, so has it 11:32:03 ack Alberto 11:33:12 RoBS suggests adding a test example with an interger result, a decimal example 11:33:14 RobS: adding and example that had a number would make it clear that literals have data types 11:33:22 Example; use 2.499,95 or 1,000.00 :-) 11:33:36 JanneS all the query results seem to have no datatypes 11:33:45 ack daveb 11:34:35 daveb: query syntax should be regular; no abbreviations ala N3 ; nor , 11:34:38 DaveB: supports the non N3-alike syntax 11:34:46 ack ericp 11:34:46 ericP, you wanted to bring up bnodes 11:34:59 ack yoshio 11:34:59 yoshio, you wanted to propose use of []'s for bnodes... expecting few supports(?) 11:35:22 prep for lunch, dinner 11:37:42 lunch till 14:00 UK time 11:37:45 --- 12:34:24 DanC_lap has joined #dawg 12:40:01 Yoshio has joined #dawg 12:48:07 kendall has joined #dawg 12:48:53 RRSAgent, pointer? 12:48:53 See http://www.w3.org/2004/09/16-dawg-irc#T12-48-53 12:49:00 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 12:57:30 AndyS has joined #dawg 13:02:04 rob has joined #dawg 13:02:04 rob_ has joined #dawg 13:03:16 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs 13:04:07 Plan for the evening : WG + anyone else @Chillis (bottom of Park Street) @8pm 13:04:54 scribe: janne 13:05:19 taking another look at the agenda http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda 13:06:20 RESOLVE to accept 7Sep telcon minutes, ammended to show Farrukh present 13:06:22 accepted 7-Sep teleconf minutes with amendments from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0482.html 13:06:32 AlbertoR has joined #dawg 13:07:35 starting to go through issues in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues 13:10:25 background: goal to have 1st WD on of design in September 2004 13:12:27 by last call we should have all issues resolved (last call target on January 2005) 13:12:55 Re: tomorrow's agenda item about 4.6, I wrote an email: 13:12:56 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0491.html 13:13:05 which I claim satisfies my action: 13:13:12 ACTION Kendall: Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP 13:13:17 ah, argh :> 13:15:16 kendall: are we really in a hurry to push this in 1 year instead of 2 years 13:15:36 DanC: yes, let's try standardize what was already on the market when the group started 13:17:53 DaveB: w.r.t source feature: implemented it, it works. 13:18:37 DaveB: still puzzled by bNodes, URIs are ok 13:19:04 q+ 13:19:10 q+ to how null values are reported 13:19:22 Zakim, open the speaker queue 13:19:22 I don't understand 'open the speaker queue', DanC_lap 13:19:46 q+ to how null values are reported 13:20:16 relevant section of the spec is the first section 9 13:20:29 "9 Querying the Origin of Statements" 13:20:32 JFBaget has joined #dawg 13:20:54 DaveB: examples 9.1 and 9.2 from the BRQL V1.55 were implemented 13:20:55 Zakim, open the queue 13:20:55 ok, DanC_lap, the speaker queue is open 13:20:55 * Oops, we have two 9s 13:21:19 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#source 13:21:31 q+ to how null values are reported 13:21:53 q+ to comment on quads 13:23:11 q+ 13:23:28 q+ to ask if the definitions cover SOURCE 13:23:57 shellac has joined #dawg 13:25:02 q+ to ask for clarification about two 9s and 9.1 13:25:56 EricP: remembering Tucana folks need further comparison of the source variable (Steve needs this, too) 13:26:04 dirkx has joined #dawg 13:26:34 q+ to ask what is meant by "SOURCE ?s clause is ignored", the subsequent triple is ignored? or it is processed as if it appears without SOURCE ?s ? 13:27:06 It would help *a lot* if "9 \\\\\\\ 13:27:08 argh 13:27:09 sorry 13:27:41 SteveH: source ?s (?s dc:creator 'Steve') can be managed with bNodes but trickier with URIs 13:28:11 ack jannes 13:28:11 JanneS, you wanted to how null values are reported 13:28:54 SELECT ?creator WHERE SOURCE ?s (:a :b :c), (?s, , ?creator) 13:30:06 SeveH: +1 - we do exactly the same 13:30:33 JanneS: what about repositories without source support? 13:30:48 DaveB: return NULL value (V1.55 suggests this instead of leaving binding out completely) 13:30:52 commas should be optionals - at least in last RDQL spec before this WG work 13:30:53 ack andys 13:30:53 AndyS, you wanted to comment on quads 13:31:53 AndyS: implementation experience on source 13:32:11 scribe needs a link to an example (is there one in the dawg archive... will look myself) 13:34:00 AndyS: non-deterministic retrieval of source from statements due to toolkit implementations (did I record this correctly?) 13:34:17 (test case for pure quads vs. named containers... dirk says it's straighforward to make one) 13:34:27 * FROM is in section 8 13:34:59 q? 13:35:36 q? 13:35:44 Steve: will you scribe here what you guys do with bnodes & the 'system' graph? 13:35:51 AlbertoR: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html 13:35:52 i'd like that on the record 13:35:54 kendall, I'l try 13:35:57 thx 13:36:22 Andy: you can of course ask the system which SOURCES do list a certain triple. But do espect multiple anserws. 13:36:39 We have a "system graph" that contains the provenance infomation, it holds the bnodes that idetify the graphs 13:36:51 (should say 'had' the current system uses URIs :) 13:37:00 dirkx - yes because it is not now an RDF question 13:37:16 AnndyS: agreed 13:37:34 DanC: hmm? 13:38:46 AlbertoR: different interpretations of FROM: merged graphs vs. distributed queries 13:38:51 ack danc 13:38:51 DanC_lap, you wanted to ask if the definitions cover SOURCE and to ask for clarification about two 9s and 9.1 13:38:57 identity mangement UC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html 13:39:18 q+ to propose leaving space for SOURCE in the grammar and punt it to the next version 13:39:33 Alberto: I intend to put a version of that use case into UC&R the next time I update it -- waiting on the UDDI use case 13:40:09 FROM vs. SOURCE - FROM is more for "4.2 Aggregation Graphs", while/and SOURCE might be more for "4.5 Querying Multiple Sources" - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0327.html 13:40:47 ack AlbertoR 13:40:48 DanC: SOURCE appears not to be complete 13:40:49 ack Yoshio 13:41:10 q? 13:41:13 odd 13:41:19 DanC: does SOURCE design include extended definition of graph pattern matching? DaveB: no, not yet 13:41:24 q- AlbertoR 13:41:30 ack Yoshio 13:41:30 Yoshio, you wanted to ask what is meant by "SOURCE ?s clause is ignored", the subsequent triple is ignored? or it is processed as if it appears without SOURCE ?s ? 13:41:40 and more about "why bNodes as graph-names" see one of last threads / emails on RDFIG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2004Sep/0044.html (Phil is one of the early implementors of BRQL it seems) - I am wondering what he feels like about SOURCE vs. FROM 13:42:05 (did phil implement {} or ()? I wonder) 13:42:42 ack ericp 13:42:42 ericP, you wanted to propose leaving space for SOURCE in the grammar and punt it to the next version 13:42:48 DanC_lap, neither - he did an abstract syntax 13:43:35 EricP: implemented source some time ago: worried how it gets implemented: suggestion to leave it out from the next version but leave space in the grammar 13:43:53 np 13:44:38 EricP: quads can be implemented as a list of values in the 4th slot - is somewhat heavy way to go 13:48:09 strawpoll on source indicates yes/no and abstain 13:49:13 DanC: how about shipping quickly without source and getting source standardized quicker in this way 13:49:26