IRC log of dawg on 2004-09-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:30:40 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:06 [AndyS]
Zakim not seeing the phone bridge? Didn't see a ??P when I phoned in
14:31:32 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:31:33 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:31:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, ??P4, ??P15, ??P16, EricP, DanC, ??P17
14:31:34 [ericP]
zakim, who is here?
14:31:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, ??P4, ??P15, ??P16, EricP, DanC, ??P17
14:31:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, AlbertoR, AndyS, kendall, HiroyukiS, Zakim, DanC, SimonR, DaveB, SteveH, ericP, afs
14:31:45 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P17 is DaveB
14:31:45 [Zakim]
+DaveB; got it
14:31:52 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P16 is AndyS
14:31:52 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:32:05 [Zakim]
+AlbertoG
14:32:32 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P4 is SimonR
14:32:32 [Zakim]
+SimonR; got it
14:32:42 [Zakim]
+ +004419aaaa
14:32:43 [DanC]
Zakim, mute SimonR temporarily
14:32:43 [Zakim]
SimonR should now be muted
14:32:58 [Zakim]
SimonR should now be unmuted again
14:33:03 [SteveH]
Zakim, +004419aaaa is SteveH
14:33:03 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:33:10 [FarrukhNajmi]
FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
14:33:16 [DanC]
Zakim, SimonR is Somebody
14:33:16 [Zakim]
+Somebody; got it
14:33:22 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P15 is SimonR
14:33:22 [Zakim]
+SimonR; got it
14:33:28 [DanC]
Zakim, mute SimonR temporarily
14:33:28 [Zakim]
SimonR should now be muted
14:33:32 [HiroyukiS]
I joind just before Kendall
14:33:42 [DanC]
Zakim, Somebody is HiroyukiS
14:33:42 [Zakim]
+HiroyukiS; got it
14:33:43 [FarrukhNajmi]
I am running just a few min late in another meeting. Will dialin shortly. thanks. cu
14:33:43 [Zakim]
SimonR should now be unmuted again
14:33:50 [DanC]
ok, FarrukhNajmi
14:33:54 [Zakim]
+??P20
14:34:03 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P20 is JosD
14:34:03 [Zakim]
+JosD; got it
14:35:29 [DanC]
Zakim, agenda?
14:35:29 [Zakim]
I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
14:35:30 [Zakim]
1. Convene, take roll, review record (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0408.html), agenda [from DanC]
14:35:33 [Zakim]
2. public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA) [from DanC]
14:35:35 [Zakim]
3. rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall) [from DanC]
14:35:37 [Zakim]
4. 4.6 Additional Semantic Information, rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall) [from DanC]
14:35:39 [Zakim]
5. returning bnodes issue (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]
14:35:41 [Zakim]
6. 4.5 Querying Multiple Sources (ACTION RobS?) [from DanC]
14:35:43 [Zakim]
7. PREFIX syntax (ACTION KendallC) [from DanC]
14:35:44 [Zakim]
8. XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]
14:35:45 [Zakim]
9. SOURCE issue (ACTION DaveB) [from DanC]
14:35:46 [Zakim]
10. ftf agenda, issues list http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda [from DanC]
14:36:35 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:36:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, HiroyukiS, SimonR, AndyS, EricP, DanC, DaveB, AlbertoR, SteveH, JosD
14:36:50 [SimonR]
We have regrets via email from Farrukh, Bryan, Yoshio and Hiroyuki. (Farrukh is present, however!)
14:37:16 [DanC]
ACTION KendallC: PREFIX CONTINUES without discussion
14:37:21 [DanC]
agenda -7
14:37:34 [HiroyukiS]
* I'm on the phone.
14:37:40 [TomAdams]
TomAdams has joined #dawg
14:37:41 [DanC]
agenda -3
14:37:51 [Zakim]
+[Tucana]
14:38:01 [TomAdams]
zakim, tucana is TomAdams
14:38:01 [Zakim]
+TomAdams; got it
14:38:48 [DanC]
ACTION SimonR: returning bnodes issue CONTINUES without discussion
14:38:51 [DanC]
agenda -5
14:39:22 [DanC]
agenda + BRQL r1.55
14:39:57 [DanC]
agenda + tests update
14:40:27 [kendall]
fwiw, a link to the brql spec is always nice in email's announcing an update of it...
14:40:49 [AndyS]
Got it. Will do next time.
14:40:53 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
14:41:19 [kendall]
can someone paste brql's uri? it's so unmemorable I can't remember it!
14:41:23 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/
14:41:36 [kendall]
thx
14:42:01 [SimonR]
Resolved to accept the minutes of the 08/31 minutes.
14:42:20 [SimonR]
No teleconference will be held on the 14th, due to the Bristol F2F.
14:42:38 [SimonR]
Kendall offers to scribe at the F2F.
14:42:44 [DanC]
Zakim, close agendum 1
14:42:44 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
14:42:45 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:42:46 [Zakim]
2. public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA) [from DanC]
14:42:55 [kendall]
(Andy also offered but I trumped him! :>)
14:42:55 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:42:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA)" taken up [from DanC]
14:43:18 [DanC]
Tom's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0454.html
14:43:37 [SimonR]
TomA sent the email message this morning.
14:44:04 [SimonR]
TomA says that Bjoern said that there weren't enough use-cases around datatyping.
14:44:09 [AndyS]
q+
14:44:33 [AlbertoR]
new XPath has some http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#comp.duration.datetime
14:45:01 [AndyS]
q-
14:45:09 [DaveB]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-current-dateTime
14:45:20 [DaveB]
fn:current-dateTime() as xs:dateTime
14:45:29 [DanC]
ACTION RobS: see if XQuery has a now() function
14:45:35 [SimonR]
Discussion about adding a function for accessing the current time. (Does XQuery have such a function?)
14:45:38 [AlbertoR]
yep - those actually - txs DaveB
14:46:13 [DaveB]
query has current-dateTime(), current-date() and current-time() as well as comparison functions
14:47:20 [SimonR]
TomA asks: is this question of time beyond our scope?
14:49:01 [Zakim]
+Farrukh_Najmi
14:49:17 [ericP]
welcome Farrukh
14:49:29 [FarrukhNajmi]
Hi ERic and colleagues
14:49:33 [DanC]
I see section 12 Testing Values http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#extendedtests $Revision: 1.55 $ of $Date: 2004/09/07 13:03:48 $
14:49:50 [SimonR]
AndyS is expecting the language to eventually support user-defined functions.
14:49:55 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:49:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "4.6 Additional Semantic Information, rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall)" taken up [from DanC]
14:51:06 [TomAdams]
SimonR, I will send my reply to Bjoern's comment email to him, copied to comments list, as is basically.
14:51:17 [DanC]
getting more concrete about 4.6 Kendall Clark http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0403.html
14:52:09 [SimonR]
Kendall summarizes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0403.html
14:52:32 [ericP]
Tom, your mail to Wolper Cc'd public-rdf-dawg-comments-request (vs. the list itself). I've bounced it to the comments list (with a corrected Cc:) and it hwas been archived [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Sep/0001]
14:53:29 [ericP]
-1 on syntactic suger
14:53:43 [ericP]
(-.5, really)
14:54:54 [ericP]
q+ to talk about srql
14:55:00 [TomAdams]
q+
14:55:26 [AndyS]
FYI: Other systems have special predicates: directSubClassOf
14:55:35 [AndyS]
No need for syntax
14:55:48 [DanC]
ack tom
14:56:36 [AndyS]
We such users as well - usually writing editors and the like
14:56:48 [kendall]
I would be happy with special predicates.
14:57:17 [SteveH]
special predicates can give unexpeted results to queries
14:57:19 [AndyS]
Also I agree with RobS - direct/indirect is complicated and subtle
14:57:23 [SteveH]
+1
14:58:48 [DanC]
ack ericp
14:58:48 [Zakim]
ericP, you wanted to talk about srql
14:59:13 [SimonR]
Kendall is worried that we'll be doing with regard to inferencing is an actual mistake rather than a matter of taste.
14:59:28 [SimonR]
Danc exhorts people to submit use-cases for inferencing!
15:00:41 [SimonR]
Kendall points out UCs 2.3 and 2.11 as claiming that they motivate inferencing.
15:01:05 [TomAdams]
EricP, it's user error, not mail client.
15:01:16 [AndyS]
UC: Ontology editors : Are there any other areas?
15:01:52 [SimonR]
ACTION TomAdams: finding a use-case for direct/transitive.
15:03:41 [kendall]
ACTION KendallClark: Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP
15:04:45 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION Simon on CONSTRUCT
15:04:55 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:04:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "returning bnodes issue (ACTION SimonR)" taken up [from DanC]
15:05:20 [DanC]
Zakim, close agendum 4
15:05:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
15:05:21 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:22 [Zakim]
5. XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]
15:05:47 [DanC]
--- 4.5 multiple source ACTION RobS?
15:05:59 [DanC]
DONE: Action Robs.
15:06:26 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:06:26 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR)" taken up [from DanC]
15:06:39 [TomAdams]
Kendall, we're doing work with OWL APIs ATM, I may be able to get some input here also...
15:07:38 [SimonR]
SimonR requests RobS to take over this action.
15:07:41 [DaveB]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0441.html
15:07:46 [DanC]
XQuery syntax for BRQL semantics http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0441.html
15:09:39 [kendall]
Tom: Ah, good to know.
15:12:12 [SimonR]
AndyS objects to RobS's quoted proposal based on it not being XQuery.
15:12:18 [DanC]
... http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/ ...
15:14:49 [AndyS]
q+
15:17:38 [AndyS]
q-
15:17:53 [SimonR]
q+
15:18:01 [DaveB]
q?
15:18:12 [Zakim]
-AlbertoR
15:18:37 [Zakim]
+[ASemantics]
15:28:54 [SimonR]
q-
15:29:21 [DanC]
ack SimonR
15:32:18 [TomAdams]
q+ To ask about query optimisers with Xquery
15:34:55 [DanC]
ack TomAdams
15:34:55 [Zakim]
TomAdams, you wanted to ask about query optimisers with Xquery
15:36:16 [DanC]
ack danc
15:36:16 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to ask andy about other proposals we don't get to hear about
15:38:43 [AndyS]
"Making RDF Data Available for XML processing"
15:39:09 [AlbertoR]
http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/RDF-XML.html
15:39:43 [AlbertoR]
+1 to put the above document on the reading list for F2F
15:40:56 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/
15:42:33 [SimonR]
DanC requests that RobS and AndyS's documents will be on the reading list for the F2F.
15:42:40 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:42:40 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "SOURCE issue (ACTION DaveB)" taken up [from DanC]
15:43:19 [DaveB]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0447.html
15:45:49 [AlbertoR]
I mentioned some issues about FROM vs. SOURCE - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0327.html
15:46:39 [TomAdams]
(for the record) Sources specified in SOURCE clause are unions currently.
15:49:37 [AlbertoR]
+1
15:50:03 [AlbertoR]
would like to discuss the FROM vs. SOURCE more at f2f or by email -
15:50:06 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:50:06 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "ftf agenda, issues list http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda" taken up [from DanC]
15:50:10 [AndyS]
FROM <uri1>, <uri2> is merged union
15:50:51 [AndyS]
(For the record!)
15:51:11 [AndyS]
SOURCE isn't union.
15:51:20 [AlbertoR]
also possible discussion about SOURCE as bNode and realed UC "Identity management" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html
15:51:46 [kendall]
AndyS: hmm, that's kinda hard to scan... any chance for something more like FROM <u1> AND <u2>?
15:51:47 [SimonR]
DanC: Useful to get F2F discussion on several issues. Inviting volunteers to lead discussion on specific issues.
15:52:25 [SimonR]
RobS volunteers to lead the XQuery topic.
15:52:32 [AndyS]
If you want - no difficulties there
15:52:38 [DaveB]
"DI use case?" what's DI?
15:52:52 [AndyS]
Device Independence
15:53:03 [TomAdams]
AndyS, I knew I'd make a fool of myself over not having read it thoroughly... :)
15:53:16 [SimonR]
DanC suggests he'll have to compose an issues list. Would like someone else involved in composing it but suspects it might be hard to do so.
15:53:27 [kendall]
Andy: maybe i just shouldn't ever talk about syntax ;>
15:54:51 [SimonR]
DaveB volunteers to lead a discussion on SOURCE.
15:55:19 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:55:19 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "BRQL r1.55" taken up [from DanC]
15:55:56 [SimonR]
AndyS is proposing 1.55 to be the baseline used at the F2F.
15:56:11 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:56:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, HiroyukiS, SimonR, AndyS, EricP, DanC, DaveB, SteveH, JosD, TomAdams, Farrukh_Najmi, [ASemantics]
15:57:52 [SimonR]
Unanimous to freeze 1.55.
15:58:03 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:58:03 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "tests update" taken up [from DanC]
15:58:34 [DanC]
simple tests http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html
15:58:38 [Zakim]
-RobS
15:59:23 [TomAdams]
My time is up sorry, have to leave. Bye.
15:59:26 [Zakim]
-TomAdams
15:59:41 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
16:01:59 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/
16:03:15 [DanC]
for ftf reading: test README http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html
16:03:21 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
16:03:21 [Zakim]
I do not see any non-closed agenda items, DanC
16:03:42 [Zakim]
-DaveB
16:03:46 [Zakim]
-[ASemantics]
16:03:47 [Zakim]
-DanC
16:03:48 [Zakim]
-JosD
16:03:49 [Zakim]
-SimonR
16:03:49 [Zakim]
-Farrukh_Najmi
16:03:58 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:04:01 [Zakim]
-SteveH
16:04:02 [Zakim]
-EricP
16:04:02 [SimonR]
Oh, where can I get the IRC log?
16:04:09 [Zakim]
-HiroyukiS
16:04:10 [DaveB]
RRSAgent: pointer?
16:04:10 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T16-04-10
16:04:10 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:04:10 [AlbertoR]
AlbertoR has left #dawg
16:04:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were RobS, Kendall_Clark, EricP, DanC, DaveB, AndyS, SteveH, SimonR, HiroyukiS, AlbertoR, JosD, [Tucana], TomAdams, Farrukh_Najmi, [ASemantics]
16:04:24 [SimonR]
Ah, thanks RRSAgent! :)
16:04:53 [TomAdams]
Simon, Tucana is what zakim thinks Dave & my office is...
16:05:06 [DanC]
RRSAgent, list actions
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items:
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallC to PREFIX CONTINUES without discussion [1]
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-37-16
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SimonR to returning bnodes issue CONTINUES without discussion [2]
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-38-48
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: RobS to see if XQuery has a now() function [3]
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-45-29
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: TomAdams to finding a use-case for direct/transitive. [4]
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T15-01-52
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KendallClark to Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP [5]
16:05:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T15-03-41
16:05:14 [SimonR]
Sharing the phone for the SWBP, I presume.
16:06:24 [HiroyukiS]
bye
18:08:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg