IRC log of swbp on 2004-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:28:52 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swbp

14:30:05 [RalphS]

agenda+ TF Goals for Face-to-Face Meeting

14:30:41 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make log public

14:30:45 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make log world

14:31:08 [aliman]

aliman has joined #swbp

14:31:15 [TomAdams]

TomAdams has joined #swbp

14:31:37 [Tbaker]

Tbaker has joined #swbp

14:32:35 [Tbaker]

Is it not 14:30 UTC...? Hello out there...?

14:32:43 [aliman]

hi

14:32:51 [Tbaker]

anyone else there?

14:33:01 [TomAdams]

I am...

14:33:02 [aliman]

I'm using passcode 7927# - have i got this right?

14:33:10 [RalphS]

oops?!

14:33:19 [RalphS]

that's the right code

14:33:20 [Gary]

Gary has joined #swbp

14:33:26 [aliman]

zakim says invalid

14:33:29 [TomAdams]

Are we on the later time this week?

14:33:58 [RalphS]

oops, one moment -- telecon reservation messed up

14:34:01 [RalphS]

give me a minute

14:34:41 [David_Wood]

David_Wood has joined #swbp

14:34:47 [MikeU]

MikeU has joined #swbp

14:35:08 [jjc]

jjc has joined #swbp

14:35:17 [GaryNg]

GaryNg has joined #swbp

14:35:25 [MikeU]

Im being told that the telecon passcode is not valid. Is there a new one?

14:35:29 [jjc]

Me too

14:35:39 [Tbaker]

ralph is looking into it...

14:36:19 [RalphS]

zakim, this is swbp

14:36:21 [Zakim]

ok, RalphS; that matches SWBPD

14:36:23 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:36:31 [RalphS]

fixed now

14:36:35 [jjc]

What's the code?

14:36:41 [RalphS]

7927

14:36:44 [jjc]

thanks

14:37:00 [David_Wood]

Thanks, Ralph!

14:37:03 [RalphS]

my mistake, compounded by a systems failure last night

14:37:03 [Zakim]

+Gary_Ng

14:37:09 [Zakim]

+David_Wood

14:37:14 [Zakim]

+??P5

14:37:16 [Zakim]

+??P4

14:37:26 [Zakim]

+Tom_Baker (was ??P5)

14:37:29 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:37:29 [jjc]

Zakim, who's on the call?

14:37:30 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Ralph, Gary_Ng, David_Wood, Tom_Baker, ??P4 (muted), ??P3

14:37:35 [Zakim]

+Evan_Wallace

14:37:44 [jjc]

Zakim, ??P4 is jjc

14:37:44 [Zakim]

+jjc; got it

14:37:51 [Zakim]

+[Tucana]

14:38:00 [TomAdams]

zakim, tucana is TomAdams

14:38:00 [Zakim]

+TomAdams; got it

14:38:18 [Zakim]

+Natasha_Noy

14:38:22 [aliman]

I think I am ??p3

14:38:40 [David_Wood]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0122.html

14:39:08 [Zakim]

+??P9

14:39:45 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p9 is Mike_Uschold

14:39:45 [Zakim]

+Mike_Uschold; got it

14:40:29 [Zakim]

-Natasha_Noy

14:40:48 [Zakim]

+Natasha_Noy

14:42:24 [Zakim]

+Mike_Uschold.a (was Mike_Uschold)

14:42:39 [Natasha]

Natasha has joined #swbp

14:43:12 [Tbaker]

431427# is mike. 431438# is Andreas.

14:43:22 [David_Wood]

zakim, what is agenda?

14:43:22 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:

14:43:23 [Zakim]

1. Administrivia [from RalphS]

14:43:24 [Zakim]

2. Action Item Review [from RalphS]

14:43:25 [Zakim]

3. TF Updates [from RalphS]

14:43:26 [Zakim]

4. Face-to-Face Location/Schedule [from RalphS]

14:43:27 [Zakim]

5. TF Goals for Face-to-Face Meeting [from RalphS]

14:43:28 [Zakim]

6. DAWG Request for Review [from RalphS]

14:43:29 [Zakim]

7. DIWG Request for Review [from RalphS]

14:43:33 [RalphS]

Regrets: DanBri, Andreas, Libby, Guus

14:43:43 [David_Wood]

Regrets: Danbri, Deb, Guus, Andreas, Brian

14:44:05 [RalphS]

Chair: David

14:44:05 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0122.html

14:44:20 [RalphS]

Scribe: Tom_A

14:44:22 [TomAdams]

zakim, TomAdams is scribe

14:44:22 [Zakim]

+scribe; got it

14:44:39 [David_Wood]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0096.html

14:44:41 [TomAdams]

DaveW proposes to accept minutes of last telecon

14:44:54 [aliman]

Zakim, mute Alistair

14:44:54 [Zakim]

Alistair? should now be muted

14:45:11 [TomAdams]

Resolved (minutes)

14:45:18 [TomAdams]

Next telecon, later time

14:45:45 [TomAdams]

Ralph's action is complete: Ralph to contact Bernard regarding Topic Maps TF

14:46:16 [TomAdams]

Substance of message was "are you interested in chairing this group?", Bernard doesn't think he'll have time.

14:47:16 [RalphS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Sep/0003.html result w/2 votes added

14:48:02 [TomAdams]

Results of first poll, lowest Y were Palo Alto & DC, Hiroshima was next lowest

14:48:14 [TomAdams]

DC had a lot of probables...

14:48:18 [TomAdams]

Ralph's action complete: Ralph find e-mailed f2f responses and impersonate them into the

14:48:18 [TomAdams]

straw poll

14:48:59 [TomAdams]

Dave's action complete: David to ask on the mailing list whether there is an interest

14:48:59 [TomAdams]

to generate a formal response to DanC note

14:49:18 [RalphS]

zakim, list participants

14:49:18 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Gary_Ng, David_Wood, Tom_Baker, Evan_Wallace, jjc, [Tucana], Natasha_Noy, Alistair?, Mike_Uschold, scribe

14:49:23 [TomAdams]

Alan's action cont.: Alan to respond to guus' document on qualified cardinality constraints

14:49:40 [RalphS]

zakim, [tucana] is Tom_Adams

14:49:40 [Zakim]

sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named '[tucana]'

14:49:45 [TomAdams]

Natasha thinks Alan's action may have been completed...

14:49:49 [RalphS]

zakim, tucana is Tom_Adams

14:49:49 [Zakim]

sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'tucana'

14:50:16 [Natasha]

Alan's response:

14:50:18 [Natasha]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0106.html

14:50:27 [TomAdams]

Ralph's action complete: Ralph do an analysis of which WG participants have been able to attend at which meeting time.

14:50:44 [TomAdams]

Alan's action complete: Alan to respond to guus' document on qualified cardinality constraints

14:52:26 [TomAdams]

Jeremy's action ongoing: Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents, Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list, Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model.

14:52:39 [TomAdams]

May be able to get them completed in the next few weeks.

14:53:20 [aliman]

Zakim, unmute Alistair

14:53:20 [Zakim]

Alistair? should no longer be muted

14:53:30 [TomAdams]

Tom's action (not listed) on posting about Urchin is complete.

14:54:10 [aliman]

PORT - list of current proposals for changes to SKOS Core ...

14:54:18 [aliman]

links in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Sep/0002.html

14:54:53 [TomAdams]

? has a question on revisions, a fairly minor change in the figure, how do we revise WG

14:55:04 [David_Wood]

next agendum

14:55:05 [David_Wood]

next agendum

14:55:09 [TomAdams]

Question for Alan, will be in Bay area shortly

14:55:41 [David_Wood]

close agendum

14:55:44 [David_Wood]

next agendum

14:55:50 [TomAdams]

Show set inclusion relationship for healthy person, show the values. Natasha will ask Alan if he can do an update.

14:56:01 [David_Wood]

close agendum 1

14:56:04 [David_Wood]

next agendum

14:56:11 [David_Wood]

close agendum 2

14:56:14 [David_Wood]

next agendum

14:56:34 [RalphS]

zakim, take up agendum 3

14:56:34 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "TF Updates" taken up [from RalphS]

14:56:34 [TomAdams]

MikeU, Has a comment about the notes, hasn't read in exhausting detail. Has suggestion on common use of terms.

14:57:40 [TomAdams]

Alistair is having the most trouble with the first one, would like input (see link above).

14:57:52 [TomAdams]

(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Sep/0002.html)

14:58:00 [David_Wood]

Alistair requests comments on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Aug/0082.html

14:58:10 [TomAdams]

"Support for 'collections' of concepts."

14:58:21 [Tbaker_]

Tbaker_ has joined #swbp

14:58:45 [TomAdams]

Nobody from WN TF.

14:58:47 [aliman]

Zakim, mute Alistair

14:58:47 [Zakim]

Alistair? should now be muted

14:59:53 [Tbaker_]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Sep/0005.html

15:01:10 [TomAdams]

TomB made two posting recently, first is a proposed outline for the note (all to read and comment on), second (to members of the TF in particular) asks 6 questions, asked for responses from TF. Views the 2nd posting as a scoping draft, outline reasonable, length, scope, content in sections, etc.

15:01:41 [TomAdams]

Dave would like to take comments on the mailing list, to save time...

15:02:21 [TomAdams]

Comments pushed off to mailing list.

15:02:53 [TomAdams]

Ben is not with us, Dave pasted the wrong link. There is progress on getting a new telecon.

15:03:16 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0075.html [HTML] next telecon for RDF-in-XHTML in early September [Ben, 2004-08-18]

15:03:42 [TomAdams]

Dave has had offline discussions with Eric Miller & Jim Hendler, there is offline interest in representing RDF information in XHTML, not RDF/XML in XHTML.

15:04:18 [TomAdams]

i.e. not putting triples into XHTML, but putting some other representation into the XHTML, that allows derivation of RDF by some other process.

15:04:27 [RalphS]

Ralph: The HTML WG has a face-to-face meeting next week, so comments on their Metainformation Module section of the July XHTML 2.0 WD is important

15:05:38 [TomAdams]

Ralph has read the draft of the metadata section of the WD. Dave has also read it, both expect to get comments independently of TF.

15:05:52 [jjc]

q+

15:05:58 [TomAdams]

HTML WG has offered to join us on a telecon next Tuesday.

15:07:15 [TomAdams]

action: Contact Ben in regard to coordinating RDF in XHTML TF

15:07:46 [RalphS]

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/2004/09/f2f/

15:07:55 [RalphS]

6-8 Sep, Edinburg

15:07:59 [RalphS]

HTML WG f2f

15:08:03 [TomAdams]

action 1 = Dave W to contact Ben in regard to coordinating RDF in XHTML TF

15:09:25 [TomAdams]

Ralph would like to see a normative reference to RDF

15:09:36 [TomAdams]

Current WG does not describe the semantics of language

15:09:42 [TomAdams]

s/WG/WD

15:10:23 [TomAdams]

Mark's document became XHTML WD, no RDF comments made it into the WD though...

15:11:53 [RalphS]

[kudos to TomA for great work on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/Tutorials ]

15:11:57 [TomAdams]

Tutorial page is going ok, TomA would like more comments and links.

15:12:19 [David_Wood]

Review of Second F2F poll results:

15:12:19 [David_Wood]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/2ndf2f-b/results

15:12:39 [TomAdams]

Dave asked if all have voted in second poll.

15:12:47 [RalphS]

Natasha: no to both DC and Bristol

15:12:53 [TomAdams]

Natasha hasn't voted, but would be NO for both locations.

15:13:16 [aliman]

Zakim, unmute Alistair

15:13:16 [Zakim]

Alistair? should no longer be muted

15:13:18 [RalphS]

Gary: yes to DC no to Bristol

15:13:25 [TomAdams]

Gary may not have been able to vote, having trouble with acct

15:14:00 [TomAdams]

Yes/No/Maybe

15:14:14 [TomAdams]

DC: 6/2/5

15:14:23 [TomAdams]

Bristol: 6/1/6

15:14:51 [TomAdams]

Bristol: 7/1/6 (Alistair just voted)

15:15:43 [TomAdams]

Summary, Bristol 1 & 2 Dec, DC 25 & 26 Oct.

15:15:57 [TomAdams]

DC location is in Reston, near Dulles Washington airport

15:16:39 [aliman]

TomAdams Bristol 1&2 Nov right?

15:16:50 [TomAdams]

Yes, sorry :)

15:17:00 [TomAdams]

Summary, Bristol 1 & 2 Nov, DC 25 & 26 Oct.

15:17:03 [Tbaker_]

Tbaker_ has joined #swbp

15:17:27 [TomAdams]

Gary, DC yes, Bristol No.

15:17:38 [TomAdams]

Bristol: 7/1/6

15:17:55 [TomAdams]

DC: 6/2/6

15:18:38 [TomAdams]

DC: 6/2/7

15:18:41 [TomAdams]

Bristol: 8/1/6

15:19:41 [aliman]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/2ndf2f-b/results?view=compact

15:20:12 [aliman]

.. see summary for each person

15:20:34 [TomAdams]

Dave commented, that in the chairs meetings, a note was made that we need a room that means an NDA doesn't need to be signed.

15:21:13 [TomAdams]

Bristol has internet access

15:21:18 [RalphS]

ah, yes, the compact view is useful too, thanks for the reminder, Alistair

15:21:29 [TomAdams]

Evan thinks Bristol facilities were excellent

15:22:00 [TomAdams]

WG feels confident that remote access will be taken care of.

15:22:21 [TomAdams]

Dave proposes that F2F be held 1 & 2 November in Bristol.

15:22:50 [TomAdams]

TomAdams has joined #swbp

15:23:11 [TomAdams]

jeremy seconds on advice of Dave

15:24:17 [RalphS]

Ralph: 3rd f2f should be in conjunction with the Technical Plenary in Boston 28 Feb to 4 March 2005

15:24:56 [TomAdams]

Discussion cont. on locations, if F2F was held in DC, next meeting is in Boston.

15:25:14 [TomAdams]

Dave would like to resolve the issue, but is uncomfortable with Guus' abscence.

15:25:31 [TomAdams]

s/abscence/absence

15:25:57 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

15:25:57 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

15:26:11 [David_Wood]

zakim q- jjc

15:26:19 [David_Wood]

q- jjc

15:26:26 [David_Wood]

ack RalphS

15:26:38 [TomAdams]

Ralph supports putting stake in the ground for Bristol. Required to give 8 weeks travel notice.

15:26:56 [TomAdams]

The next discussion will be is there a quorum to get suitable work done.

15:28:11 [TomAdams]

Natasha may not be able to call in, due to timezone.

15:28:27 [TomAdams]

Deb made the suggestion that we schedule defined times for call ins.

15:28:36 [aliman]

Zakim, mute Alistair

15:28:36 [Zakim]

Alistair? should now be muted

15:29:16 [TomAdams]

Dave wants to proceed on F2F, Ralph is comfortable.

15:29:33 [TomAdams]

Resolved, F2F held 1 & 2 Nov in Bristol

15:29:50 [David_Wood]

Guus' proposals:

15:29:50 [David_Wood]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0109.html

15:30:58 [RalphS]

zakim, move to next agendum

15:30:58 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Face-to-Face Location/Schedule" taken up [from RalphS]

15:31:03 [RalphS]

zakim, close agendum 4

15:31:03 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

15:31:04 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:31:05 [Zakim]

5. TF Goals for Face-to-Face Meeting [from RalphS]

15:31:11 [RalphS]

zakim, move to agendum 5

15:31:12 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'move to agendum 5', RalphS

15:31:17 [RalphS]

zakim, take up agendum 5

15:31:17 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "TF Goals for Face-to-Face Meeting" taken up [from RalphS]

15:32:36 [aliman]

Zakim, unmute Alistair

15:32:36 [Zakim]

Alistair? should no longer be muted

15:32:56 [Zakim]

-Natasha_Noy

15:33:06 [TomAdams]

Alistair thinks 8 week deadline is OK. May have other deliverables before hand.

15:33:13 [TomAdams]

Wordnet skipped.

15:33:19 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

15:33:19 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:33:31 [TomAdams]

Natasha will talk with Alan next week on OEP.

15:34:28 [TomAdams]

Jeremy may have rough note, and adequate discussion ready for F2F.

15:34:36 [TomAdams]

Won't have draft authored for F2F.

15:34:51 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

15:34:51 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

15:36:04 [RalphS]

[Ralph agrees the HTML TF has a short window of opportunity; XHTML 2.0 hopes to go to last call in the next few months

15:36:06 [TomAdams]

Dave thinks RDF in XHTML TF will have to do more than what Guus has defined.

15:36:25 [TomAdams]

Libby is not here, no comments on ADTF.

15:36:39 [TomAdams]

TomB think they'll have a first draft by F2F.

15:38:08 [RalphS]

zakim, close this agendum

15:38:08 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

15:38:09 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:38:10 [Zakim]

6. DAWG Request for Review [from RalphS]

15:38:32 [TomAdams]

Dave want to decide whether we are going to comment on DAWG

15:38:35 [RalphS]

next agendum

15:38:55 [TomAdams]

BanBri has responded...

15:39:02 [TomAdams]

s/BanBri/DanBri

15:40:30 [RalphS]

Gary: do we have a group position on querying ontologies?

15:40:31 [TomAdams]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0123.html

15:41:19 [TomAdams]

Part of Dave's unstated question is if any people are likely to look at the request, do they think there is likely to be a WG response or not.

15:42:03 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

15:42:03 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:43:52 [Tbaker__]

Tbaker__ has joined #swbp

15:45:14 [aliman]

Zakim, mute Alistair

15:45:14 [Zakim]

Alistair? should now be muted

15:45:38 [TomAdams]

Jeremy thinks that it is relevant for this WG to address the work of other WGs, where relevant to best practices

15:46:36 [TomAdams]

Gary will volunteer to look at DAWG work

15:47:54 [TomAdams]

action: Gary to look at DAWG's request and post comments to mailing list

15:48:24 [TomAdams]

Based on comments to Gary's comments, BP WG will review, and perhaps send comments back to DAWG

15:49:14 [TomAdams]

DAWG UC&R editors draft: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases

15:50:40 [TomAdams]

Dave would like to get someone to review the original request for comments on the DIWG

15:51:17 [TomAdams]

Dave will continue action onto next telecon

15:51:26 [TomAdams]

if no action then, we will drop it, and not have comments.

15:51:44 [Zakim]

-Evan_Wallace

15:51:47 [Zakim]

-Mike_Uschold.a

15:51:48 [Zakim]

-jjc

15:51:49 [aliman]

bye everyone!

15:51:53 [Zakim]

-Tom_Baker

15:51:58 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make log world-visible

15:52:13 [Zakim]

-Gary_Ng

15:52:13 [David_Wood]

Thanks, all.

15:52:48 [RalphS]

rrsagent, pointer?

15:52:48 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2004/09/02-swbp-irc#T15-52-48

15:55:58 [TomAdams]

bye

15:58:02 [Zakim]

-Ralph

15:58:03 [Zakim]

-Alistair?

15:58:04 [Zakim]

-David_Wood

15:58:08 [Zakim]

-scribe

15:58:09 [Zakim]

SWBPD has ended

15:58:10 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, Gary_Ng, David_Wood, Tom_Baker, Evan_Wallace, jjc, [Tucana], Natasha_Noy, Alistair?, Mike_Uschold, scribe

16:05:24 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

16:05:24 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items:

16:05:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Dave W to contact Ben in regard to coordinating RDF in XHTML TF [1]

16:05:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/02-swbp-irc#T15-07-15

16:05:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Gary to look at DAWG's request and post comments to mailing list [2]

16:05:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/02-swbp-irc#T15-47-54