IRC log of dawg on 2004-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:28:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:09 [DaveB]
Zakime, ??P12 is DaveB
14:28:14 [DaveB]
Zakim, ??P12 is DaveB
14:28:14 [Zakim]
+DaveB; got it
14:28:22 [DaveB]
Zakim, ??P36 is JanneS
14:28:22 [Zakim]
+JanneS; got it
14:29:06 [Zakim]
+HowardK
14:29:19 [rob]
rob has joined #dawg
14:29:21 [EnricoF]
EnricoF has joined #dawg
14:29:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.768.aaaa
14:29:37 [Zakim]
+RobS
14:29:45 [kendall]
kendall has joined #dawg
14:29:54 [Zakim]
+??P40
14:29:57 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P40 is AndyS
14:29:57 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:30:02 [DaveB]
... aaaa is KendallC
14:30:08 [kendall]
thanks
14:30:17 [Zakim]
+ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink
14:30:22 [Zakim]
+DanC
14:30:40 [DaveB]
Zakim, +1.301.768.aaaa is kendall
14:30:40 [Zakim]
+kendall; got it
14:30:50 [Zakim]
+ +39.047.aabb
14:30:50 [TomAdams]
TomAdams has joined #dawg
14:30:55 [SteveH]
who is ChrisR...
14:31:06 [SteveH]
may be me, I'm dialed in through a call centre
14:31:08 [Zakim]
+EricP
14:31:12 [DaveB]
country code 39, hmm
14:31:13 [DanC]
Zakim, take up agendum 1
14:31:13 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review record, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0297.html" taken up [from DanC]
14:31:14 [ericP]
zakim, who is here?
14:31:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, kendall, RobS, AndyS, ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DanC, +39.047.aabb, EricP
14:31:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see TomAdams, kendall, EnricoF, rob, RRSAgent, AndyS, JanneS, FarrukhNajmi, DaveB, howardk, ericP, Yoshio, Zakim, DanC, SimonR, SteveH, afs
14:31:54 [Yoshio]
zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:31:54 [Zakim]
I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:31:59 [Zakim]
+??P45
14:32:08 [alberto]
alberto has joined #dawg
14:32:11 [Zakim]
+[Tucana]
14:32:23 [TomAdams]
zakim, tucana is TomAdams
14:32:23 [Zakim]
+TomAdams; got it
14:32:30 [Yoshio]
Mmm, no resource?
14:33:03 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, kendall, RobS, AndyS, ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DanC, Enrico, EricP, SimonR, TomAdams
14:33:16 [Yoshio]
zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:33:16 [Zakim]
I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:33:25 [Zakim]
+ +46.3.17.40.aacc
14:33:48 [DanC]
Zakim, aacc is AlbertoR
14:33:48 [Zakim]
+AlbertoR; got it
14:34:18 [SteveH]
Zakim, ChrisRYvette_Hiotink is SteveH
14:34:18 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisRYvette_Hiotink'
14:34:29 [SteveH]
Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hiotink is SteveH
14:34:29 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hiotink'
14:35:24 [ericP]
DONE DanC: evaluate Tom's proposed reply
14:35:39 [ericP]
next scribe: Alberto
14:35:43 [DaveB]
regrets for me 2004-08-31
14:35:47 [ericP]
ACTION: TomA: draft reply to Bjoerern Hoehrmann
14:35:50 [ericP]
DONE
14:35:59 [Yoshio]
zakim, drop Yoshio
14:35:59 [Zakim]
sorry, Yoshio, I do not see a party named 'Yoshio'
14:36:14 [DanC]
agenda + BP review of UC&R [TomA]
14:36:22 [Yoshio]
zakim, call Yoshio-Home
14:36:22 [Zakim]
I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:36:27 [Zakim]
+Farrukh_Najmi.a
14:36:39 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:36:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review "Semantic Interpretation for Speech Recognition"" taken up [from DanC]
14:37:10 [Yoshio]
Hmm, I can't be dialed out, can somebody help this?
14:37:14 [DanC]
steve's review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0302.html
14:37:27 [DanC]
yoshio, zakim dial-out seems to be donwn; can you dial in?
14:37:40 [Yoshio]
I'm afraid not
14:37:43 [ericP]
ACTIONs on EricP and SteveH to read http://www.w3.org/TR/semantic-interpretation/ and let DAWG
14:38:04 [ericP]
SteveH: not much to do with RDF
14:38:18 [FarrukhNajmi]
FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
14:38:36 [ericP]
... references EMMA (grammars and RDF)
14:38:38 [kendall]
+q to ask about background
14:38:46 [kendall]
q+ to ask about background
14:39:24 [kendall]
q-
14:40:05 [ericP]
EricP: doc is forms for speach rather than forms for clicky/typy events
14:40:18 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
14:40:18 [Zakim]
kendall should now be muted
14:40:47 [ericP]
SteveH: Emma notes that there's no RDF query lang
14:41:00 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
14:41:00 [Zakim]
kendall should no longer be muted
14:41:21 [SteveH]
not big RF users, mostly using mixed XML+RDF
14:41:28 [SteveH]
s/RF/RDF/
14:41:58 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:41:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "SOURCE, "provenance"/data-management " taken up [from DanC]
14:41:59 [ericP]
DanC: we are better informed, but do not need to look further into http://www.w3.org/TR/semantic-interpretation/
14:42:06 [Zakim]
-kendall
14:42:35 [Zakim]
+kendall
14:43:07 [DaveB]
re actions danc 1) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0309.html
14:43:15 [DaveB]
redland http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0305.html
14:43:52 [DaveB]
source issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0307.html
14:44:01 [Zakim]
+JosD
14:44:13 [ericP]
DaveB: end of doc proposes which provenance support we should keep and which we should drop
14:44:24 [DanC]
DaveB's proposal re source http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0307.html
14:44:26 [ericP]
... allow source info to be returned but not queried
14:44:41 [kendall]
dave's suggestion doesn't really work for my users, I think...
14:44:42 [ericP]
AndyS: other restriction? can't mention variable elsewhere?
14:44:46 [ericP]
DaveB: yup
14:44:57 [ericP]
AndyS: guarantee that it's a URI?
14:45:55 [ericP]
DaveB: cost of not implementing is low
14:46:06 [kendall]
q+ to suggest other use cases
14:46:11 [ericP]
... makes it a low cost optional feature
14:46:17 [alberto]
q+
14:46:33 [ericP]
... motivated by stores that don't have prov support
14:47:54 [ericP]
SimonR: itql supprts both returning and restricting on prov
14:47:56 [DanC]
ack kendall
14:47:56 [Zakim]
kendall, you wanted to suggest other use cases
14:48:06 [AndyS]
q+ about inference across models
14:48:14 [AndyS]
q+ to ask about inference across models
14:48:35 [ericP]
Kendall: Mindlab use cases need URI for restriction
14:48:43 [ericP]
(vs. selection)
14:49:49 [ericP]
DaveB: adding querying across multiple graphs was a significant change to my code
14:50:18 [ericP]
RobS: i think prov needs to go on to RDF. adding it to the QL will just hurt.
14:50:46 [DanC]
ack alberto
14:50:57 [ericP]
AndyS: [case where quad is repeated -- return twice?]
14:51:40 [AndyS]
That's when it is asked for a a triple, not with source
14:51:40 [ericP]
Alberto: in our impl, our source specifier may be a URI or a bnode
14:51:52 [SteveH]
q+
14:51:53 [ericP]
tx andy
14:51:53 [AndyS]
s/a a/as a/
14:52:04 [DaveB]
also could have in rdql's ?s constrained and usedf further in @semantics rdql
14:52:08 [ericP]
... when i bnode, it can be specified (not by name)
14:52:16 [ericP]
... useful for federation
14:52:40 [ericP]
... we want source ?s and restrict the sources
14:52:48 [rob]
q+
14:53:05 [DanC]
ack andys
14:53:05 [Zakim]
AndyS, you wanted to ask about inference across models
14:53:11 [ericP]
... we want to be able to restrict on the source
14:53:24 [ericP]
AndyS: want to know what happens with inferred triples.
14:53:30 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
14:53:30 [Zakim]
kendall should now be muted
14:53:43 [AndyS]
Q: What's the source of an inferred triple? Inferred from just one model? Across models? Both by different paths?
14:53:47 [DanC]
ack steve
14:54:02 [ericP]
SteveH: +1 to alberto -- seems to work well
14:54:04 [DanC]
ack rob
14:54:11 [ericP]
... [ restrict on source ]
14:54:18 [alberto]
alberto: SOURCE ?s should be an arbitrary resource - and be able to have other triple-patterns to query ?s with other properties
14:54:32 [ericP]
RobS: we attempted to build apps that do prov stuff
14:54:38 [ericP]
... reification looks promising
14:55:02 [DanC]
q+ to note recent work on reification in cwm
14:55:02 [ericP]
... OWL encodings of prov also [work?]
14:55:18 [DanC]
ack danc
14:55:18 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note recent work on reification in cwm
14:55:19 [ericP]
... noone knows the answer yet. shouldn't be critical to the QL.
14:55:25 [kendall]
q+ to respond to rob
14:55:31 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
14:55:31 [Zakim]
kendall should no longer be muted
14:55:31 [ericP]
DanC: cwm outputs proofs.
14:55:40 [ericP]
... doing so, it outputs quoted formulae
14:56:10 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: point to cwm reification/quoting tests
14:56:11 [ericP]
... we have an alternative for quoting formulae
14:56:31 [DanC]
on semantics/includes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0309.html
14:56:33 [SimonR]
I liked the suggestion in http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2004/HPL-2004-57.html (
14:57:28 [SimonR]
Named Graphs, Provenance and Trust) about how to deal with a lot of this.
14:57:32 [ericP]
ACTION DanC: explain evolution of log:semantics/log:includes
14:57:34 [ericP]
DONE
14:57:39 [AndyS]
Is there any comparision of cwm formulae and Trix/named graphs?
14:58:02 [kendall]
q-
14:58:23 [ericP]
DaveB: i'll try again, allowing source in both results and restriction
14:58:43 [ericP]
DanC: would like test case on inferred triples. AndyS?
14:58:49 [ericP]
AndyS: will try
14:58:50 [Zakim]
-ChrisRYvette_Hoitink
14:59:02 [ericP]
DaveB: defn to include bnodes?
15:00:03 [FarrukhNajmi]
Apologies to all. Verizon is mucking with lines in my neighborhood and my internet and phone are very flaky.
15:00:30 [DaveB]
there were some support for me talking/adding bnodes for source uris
15:00:33 [ericP]
ACTION: DaveB to repropose source in both results and restrictions
15:00:37 [DaveB]
alberto said that, offered a use case, IIRC
15:00:49 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:00:49 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Reporting b-nodes" taken up [from DanC]
15:00:54 [Zakim]
+ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink
15:00:56 [ericP]
ACTIONL: AndyS to (try to) compose a test case on inferred triples
15:01:06 [alberto]
yes, I can think fo FOAF one at least - let me think more...
15:01:11 [SteveH]
SteveH
15:01:15 [ericP]
welcome back SteveH
15:01:20 [DanC]
Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink is SteveH
15:01:20 [Zakim]
sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink'
15:01:33 [FarrukhNajmi]
FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
15:01:42 [DanC]
. ACTION SimonR: write about the "returning bnodes from a query" issue.
15:01:42 [ericP]
Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink is ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink|SteveH
15:01:42 [Zakim]
sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink'
15:02:09 [FarrukhNajmi]
Apologies to all for dropping in/out. Phone company messing with wires in my streetand internet and phone are dodgy today.
15:02:32 [DanC]
ACTION SimonR: write about the "returning bnodes from a query" issue. CONTINUES.
15:02:42 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:02:42 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "XQuery integration requirements/objective" taken up [from DanC]
15:03:15 [ericP]
ACTION SimonR: write a document discussing tradeoffs with adapting XQuery as an RDF query language for discussion thru the September meeting in Bristol. CONTINUES.
15:03:40 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, RobS, AndyS, DanC, Enrico (muted), EricP, SimonR, TomAdams, AlbertoR, Farrukh_Najmi.a, kendall, JosD
15:03:44 [kendall]
ah, too bad, Simon :>
15:04:39 [DanC]
Zakim, take up agendum 8
15:04:39 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "BP review of UC&R" taken up [from TomA via DanC]
15:05:02 [ericP]
DanC: i asked BP about XQuery
15:05:24 [ericP]
TomA: noone had more comments to add
15:05:58 [ericP]
... hopefully more discussion this week. will get back to DAWG with results.
15:06:21 [DanC]
# RDF Data Access, XQuery, rules Dan Connolly (Monday, 16 August) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Aug/0004.html
15:07:16 [DanC]
Zakim, close this agendum
15:07:16 [Zakim]
agendum 8 closed
15:07:17 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:18 [Zakim]
5. XQuery integration requirements/objective [from DanC]
15:07:20 [ericP]
TomA: should see interest from Dave ??? (co-chair)
15:07:40 [ericP]
... BP group is about a bunch of task forces
15:08:06 [DaveB]
David Wood
15:08:10 [ericP]
tx
15:08:12 [DanC]
Zakim, close agendum 5
15:08:12 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
15:08:13 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:14 [Zakim]
6. WG meeting schedule [from DanC]
15:08:23 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:08:23 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "WG meeting schedule" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:49 [ericP]
ACTION EricP: find out the schedule of the 2005 W3C tech plenary and inform the WG so that we can plan ftf meetings after September. WITHDRAWN.
15:10:29 [DanC]
action -8
15:10:45 [DanC]
RobS: I'm still offering to host, say, in Jan.
15:10:52 [ericP]
Kendall and SteveH: further from the beginning of month is better
15:10:59 [ericP]
AndyS: no 6-7
15:11:27 [Yoshio]
later than 7, please
15:11:33 [ericP]
All Jan is good for me.
15:12:04 [TomAdams]
All Jan is fine for me also, after the first week would be fine.
15:12:07 [ericP]
agenda?
15:13:44 [Yoshio]
* Hmm, I don't see what's going on...
15:14:38 [ericP]
Yoshio, when does Japan go on daylight (or nightlight) savings time?
15:15:07 [Yoshio]
There's no such time in Japan. we only have one time system throughout the year.
15:15:14 [AndyS]
14:30Z or 15:30Z is OK for me
15:15:24 [ericP]
hmm, my wmtz is confused
15:15:34 [kendall]
i hate discussions pertaining to time zones!
15:15:54 [ericP]
i guess maintain curernt Z time is best for Japan and Australia
15:15:56 [Yoshio]
I don't want the meeting to shift later than now
15:15:56 [SimonR]
All of Jan is fine for me (tentatively), except 13-17th.
15:16:36 [ericP]
AndyS: I will be at xmlopen.org and that will restrict my editing abilities
15:17:02 [ericP]
... am keen on doing publish early anyways
15:17:20 [ericP]
... might have a draft of slides before talk.
15:18:05 [ericP]
ACTION: AndyS to show xmlopen slides to DAWG one or two days in advance
15:19:02 [DanC]
. http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f3/
15:19:56 [rob]
refresh the results...
15:20:11 [DanC]
please fill it out EVEN if YOU'RE NOT COMING!
15:20:40 [DaveB]
I will attend ... July 2004
15:21:20 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:21:20 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Use Cases & Requirements done?" taken up [from DanC]
15:21:44 [DaveB]
simon's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0304.html
15:22:05 [ericP]
brownie points for DamC, KendallC, AndyS, SteveH, YoshioF, Janne, SimonR, DaveB, RobS
15:23:25 [ericP]
Kendall: [re union query] will add a paragraph of explanation
15:23:34 [DanC]
this is to replace http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#d4.5
15:23:43 [DanC]
$Revision: 1.134 $ of $Date: 2004/08/03 20:46:48 $
15:23:47 [DanC]
yes?
15:24:26 [ericP]
SimonR: my proposal it to replace 4.5
15:24:59 [ericP]
... you get to easily meet three other reqs/goals
15:25:20 [ericP]
Kendall: i'd be happy to make 4.5.1 4.5 and add Simon's explanatory paragraph
15:26:06 [ericP]
lol
15:26:24 [alberto]
q+
15:26:43 [ericP]
SimonR: there's some scarey stuff in there so i'm happy to discuss it.
15:26:47 [ericP]
q?
15:27:21 [ericP]
RobS: response to req -- understand but don't like it.
15:27:26 [ericP]
... will write response.
15:28:08 [ericP]
ACTION: RobS to write response to Simon's union query
15:28:52 [ericP]
DanC: would be nice if next week, the WG can vote on Kendall's best guess
15:29:00 [rob]
What schools?
15:29:03 [alberto]
q- can discuss another time about FROM vs. SOURCE into BRQL
15:29:11 [alberto]
q-
15:29:32 [ericP]
ACTION: JimH, to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use cases. CONTINUES.
15:31:02 [DanC]
2.12 Browsing Patient Records (Health Care) http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#u2.12
15:31:48 [DanC]
ACTION RobS: re-play comments on 2.12 Browsing Patient Records for the WG
15:32:12 [ericP]
ACTION: RobS write email to Farrukh about traversing a taxonomy. DONE.
15:32:57 [ericP]
ACTION Simon+Kendall elaborate the rel. of rules and "construct" in the UC&R doc. CONTINUES.
15:33:21 [DaveB]
alberto: earlier you offerered info about a bnode source use case, can you send something? I think I grok what you want, but an example helps. thanks
15:34:23 [ericP]
DanC: likely we'll have another publication of the UC&R
15:34:33 [alberto]
ACTION: Alberto tries to write a UC for bNodes in the SOURCE field
15:34:50 [rob]
can I sign off on my action item already?
15:35:11 [ericP]
might be worth seeing the fallout
15:35:26 [DanC]
Rob's done. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0311.html
15:35:37 [DanC]
Zakim, close this agendum
15:35:37 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
15:35:38 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:35:54 [DanC]
ADJOURN.
15:36:05 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:36:06 [Zakim]
-DaveB
15:36:11 [Zakim]
-JosD
15:36:12 [Zakim]
-AlbertoR
15:36:14 [Zakim]
-JanneS
15:36:18 [Zakim]
-kendall
15:36:19 [Zakim]
-ChrisRYvette_Hoitink
15:36:21 [Zakim]
-Enrico
15:36:27 [alberto]
alberto has left #dawg
15:36:42 [Yoshio]
Bye ... hoping to join the conversation next time
15:36:47 [EnricoF]
EnricoF has left #dawg
15:36:50 [Yoshio]
Yoshio has left #dawg
15:36:52 [EnricoF]
EnricoF has joined #dawg
15:36:57 [EnricoF]
EnricoF has left #dawg
15:36:58 [DanC]
ericp, anything else you need to produce a record in the next day or 2?
15:37:11 [TomAdams]
Try this: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
15:37:28 [ericP]
danc, i think i'm cool
15:37:32 [Zakim]
-DanC
15:38:17 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:38:21 [Zakim]
-TomAdams
15:41:16 [DaveB]
DaveB has joined #dawg
15:42:34 [Zakim]
-HowardK
15:42:35 [Zakim]
-RobS
15:42:37 [Zakim]
-SimonR
15:42:43 [Zakim]
-AndyS
17:33:39 [DanC_]
DanC_ has left #dawg
18:11:52 [DaveB]
DaveB has joined #dawg
18:26:32 [Zakim]
-Farrukh_Najmi
18:31:32 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Farrukh_Najmi.a, in SW_DAWG()10:30AM
18:31:34 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
18:31:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Farrukh_Najmi, DaveB, JanneS, HowardK, RobS, AndyS, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink, DanC, kendall, +39.047.aabb, EricP, Enrico, [Tucana], TomAdams, SimonR, +46.3.17.40.aacc,
18:31:38 [Zakim]
... AlbertoR, JosD
19:00:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg