14:28:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:09 <DaveB> Zakime, ??P12 is DaveB
14:28:14 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P12 is DaveB
14:28:14 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
14:28:22 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P36 is JanneS
14:28:22 <Zakim> +JanneS; got it
14:29:06 <Zakim> +HowardK
14:29:19 <rob> rob has joined #dawg
14:29:21 <EnricoF> EnricoF has joined #dawg
14:29:31 <Zakim> + +1.301.768.aaaa
14:29:37 <Zakim> +RobS
14:29:45 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
14:29:54 <Zakim> +??P40
14:29:57 <AndyS> zakim, ??P40 is AndyS
14:29:57 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:30:02 <DaveB> ... aaaa is KendallC
14:30:08 <kendall> thanks
14:30:17 <Zakim> +ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink
14:30:22 <Zakim> +DanC
14:30:40 <DaveB> Zakim, +1.301.768.aaaa is kendall
14:30:40 <Zakim> +kendall; got it
14:30:50 <Zakim> + +39.047.aabb
14:30:50 <TomAdams> TomAdams has joined #dawg
14:30:55 <SteveH> who is ChrisR...
14:31:06 <SteveH> may be me, I'm dialed in through a call centre
14:31:08 <Zakim> +EricP
14:31:12 <DaveB> country code 39, hmm
14:31:13 <DanC> Zakim, take up agendum 1
14:31:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review record, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0297.html" taken up [from DanC]
14:31:14 <ericP> zakim, who is here?
14:31:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, kendall, RobS, AndyS, ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DanC, +39.047.aabb, EricP
14:31:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see TomAdams, kendall, EnricoF, rob, RRSAgent, AndyS, JanneS, FarrukhNajmi, DaveB, howardk, ericP, Yoshio, Zakim, DanC, SimonR, SteveH, afs
14:31:54 <Yoshio> zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:31:54 <Zakim> I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:31:59 <Zakim> +??P45
14:32:08 <alberto> alberto has joined #dawg
14:32:11 <Zakim> +[Tucana]
14:32:23 <TomAdams> zakim, tucana is TomAdams
14:32:23 <Zakim> +TomAdams; got it
14:32:30 <Yoshio> Mmm, no resource?
14:33:03 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, kendall, RobS, AndyS, ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DanC, Enrico, EricP, SimonR, TomAdams
14:33:16 <Yoshio> zakim, call Yoshio-home
14:33:16 <Zakim> I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:33:25 <Zakim> + +46.3.17.40.aacc
14:33:48 <DanC> Zakim, aacc is AlbertoR
14:33:48 <Zakim> +AlbertoR; got it
14:34:18 <SteveH> Zakim, ChrisRYvette_Hiotink is SteveH
14:34:18 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisRYvette_Hiotink'
14:34:29 <SteveH> Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hiotink is SteveH
14:34:29 <Zakim> sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hiotink'
14:35:24 <ericP> DONE DanC: evaluate Tom's proposed reply
14:35:39 <ericP> next scribe: Alberto
14:35:43 <DaveB> regrets for me 2004-08-31
14:35:47 <ericP> ACTION: TomA: draft reply to Bjoerern Hoehrmann
14:35:50 <ericP> DONE
14:35:59 <Yoshio> zakim, drop Yoshio
14:35:59 <Zakim> sorry, Yoshio, I do not see a party named 'Yoshio'
14:36:14 <DanC> agenda + BP review of UC&R [TomA]
14:36:22 <Yoshio> zakim, call Yoshio-Home
14:36:22 <Zakim> I am sorry, Yoshio; I don't have the necessary resources to dial out right now
14:36:27 <Zakim> +Farrukh_Najmi.a
14:36:39 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:36:39 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review "Semantic Interpretation for Speech Recognition"" taken up [from DanC]
14:37:10 <Yoshio> Hmm, I can't be dialed out, can somebody help this?
14:37:14 <DanC> steve's review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0302.html
14:37:27 <DanC> yoshio, zakim dial-out seems to be donwn; can you dial in?
14:37:40 <Yoshio> I'm afraid not
14:37:43 <ericP> ACTIONs on EricP and SteveH to read http://www.w3.org/TR/semantic-interpretation/ and let DAWG
14:38:04 <ericP> SteveH: not much to do with RDF
14:38:18 <FarrukhNajmi> FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
14:38:36 <ericP> ... references EMMA (grammars and RDF)
14:38:38 <kendall> +q to ask about background
14:38:46 <kendall> q+ to ask about background
14:39:24 <kendall> q-
14:40:05 <ericP> EricP: doc is forms for speach rather than forms for clicky/typy events
14:40:18 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:40:18 <Zakim> kendall should now be muted
14:40:47 <ericP> SteveH: Emma notes that there's no RDF query lang
14:41:00 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
14:41:00 <Zakim> kendall should no longer be muted
14:41:21 <SteveH> not big RF users, mostly using mixed XML+RDF
14:41:28 <SteveH> s/RF/RDF/
14:41:58 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:41:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "SOURCE, "provenance"/data-management " taken up [from DanC]
14:41:59 <ericP> DanC: we are better informed, but do not need to look further into http://www.w3.org/TR/semantic-interpretation/
14:42:06 <Zakim> -kendall
14:42:35 <Zakim> +kendall
14:43:07 <DaveB> re actions danc 1) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0309.html
14:43:15 <DaveB> redland http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0305.html
14:43:52 <DaveB> source issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0307.html
14:44:01 <Zakim> +JosD
14:44:13 <ericP> DaveB: end of doc proposes which provenance support we should keep and which we should drop
14:44:24 <DanC> DaveB's proposal re source http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0307.html
14:44:26 <ericP> ... allow source info to be returned but not queried
14:44:41 <kendall> dave's suggestion doesn't really work for my users, I think...
14:44:42 <ericP> AndyS: other restriction? can't mention variable elsewhere?
14:44:46 <ericP> DaveB: yup
14:44:57 <ericP> AndyS: guarantee that it's a URI?
14:45:55 <ericP> DaveB: cost of not implementing is low
14:46:06 <kendall> q+ to suggest other use cases
14:46:11 <ericP> ... makes it a low cost optional feature
14:46:17 <alberto> q+ 
14:46:33 <ericP> ... motivated by stores that don't have prov support
14:47:54 <ericP> SimonR: itql supprts both returning and restricting on prov
14:47:56 <DanC> ack kendall
14:47:56 <Zakim> kendall, you wanted to suggest other use cases
14:48:06 <AndyS> q+ about inference across models
14:48:14 <AndyS> q+ to ask about inference across models
14:48:35 <ericP> Kendall: Mindlab use cases need URI for restriction
14:48:43 <ericP> (vs. selection)
14:49:49 <ericP> DaveB: adding querying across multiple graphs was a significant change to my code
14:50:18 <ericP> RobS: i think prov needs to go on to RDF. adding it to the QL will just hurt.
14:50:46 <DanC> ack alberto
14:50:57 <ericP> AndyS: [case where quad is repeated -- return twice?]
14:51:40 <AndyS> That's when it is asked for a a triple, not with source
14:51:40 <ericP> Alberto: in our impl, our source specifier may be a URI or a bnode
14:51:52 <SteveH> q+
14:51:53 <ericP> tx andy
14:51:53 <AndyS> s/a a/as a/
14:52:04 <DaveB> also could have in rdql's ?s constrained and usedf further in @semantics rdql
14:52:08 <ericP> ... when i bnode, it can be specified (not by name)
14:52:16 <ericP> ... useful for federation
14:52:40 <ericP> ... we want source ?s and restrict the sources
14:52:48 <rob> q+
14:53:05 <DanC> ack andys
14:53:05 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about inference across models
14:53:11 <ericP> ... we want to be able to restrict on the source
14:53:24 <ericP> AndyS: want to know what happens with inferred triples.
14:53:30 <kendall> zakim, mute me
14:53:30 <Zakim> kendall should now be muted
14:53:43 <AndyS> Q: What's the source of an inferred triple?  Inferred from just one model?  Across models?  Both by different paths?
14:53:47 <DanC> ack steve
14:54:02 <ericP> SteveH: +1 to alberto -- seems to work well
14:54:04 <DanC> ack rob
14:54:11 <ericP> ... [ restrict on source ]
14:54:18 <alberto> alberto: SOURCE ?s should be an arbitrary resource - and be able to have other triple-patterns to query ?s with other properties
14:54:32 <ericP> RobS: we attempted to build apps that do prov stuff
14:54:38 <ericP> ... reification looks promising
14:55:02 <DanC> q+ to note recent work on reification in cwm
14:55:02 <ericP> ... OWL encodings of prov also [work?]
14:55:18 <DanC> ack danc
14:55:18 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note recent work on reification in cwm
14:55:19 <ericP> ... noone knows the answer yet. shouldn't be critical to the QL.
14:55:25 <kendall> q+ to respond to rob
14:55:31 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
14:55:31 <Zakim> kendall should no longer be muted
14:55:31 <ericP> DanC: cwm outputs proofs.
14:55:40 <ericP> ... doing so, it outputs quoted formulae
14:56:10 <DanC> ACTION DanC: point to cwm reification/quoting tests
14:56:11 <ericP> ... we have an alternative for quoting formulae
14:56:31 <DanC> on semantics/includes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0309.html
14:56:33 <SimonR> I liked the suggestion in http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2004/HPL-2004-57.html (
14:57:28 <SimonR> Named Graphs, Provenance and Trust) about how to deal with a lot of this.
14:57:32 <ericP> ACTION DanC: explain evolution of log:semantics/log:includes
14:57:34 <ericP> DONE
14:57:39 <AndyS> Is there any comparision of cwm formulae and Trix/named graphs?
14:58:02 <kendall> q-
14:58:23 <ericP> DaveB: i'll try again, allowing source in both results and restriction
14:58:43 <ericP> DanC: would like test case on inferred triples. AndyS?
14:58:49 <ericP> AndyS: will try
14:58:50 <Zakim> -ChrisRYvette_Hoitink
14:59:02 <ericP> DaveB: defn to include bnodes?
15:00:03 <FarrukhNajmi> Apologies to all. Verizon is mucking with lines in my neighborhood and my internet and phone are very flaky.
15:00:30 <DaveB> there were some support for me talking/adding bnodes for source uris
15:00:33 <ericP> ACTION: DaveB to repropose source in both results and restrictions
15:00:37 <DaveB> alberto said that, offered a use case, IIRC
15:00:49 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:00:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Reporting b-nodes" taken up [from DanC]
15:00:54 <Zakim> +ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink
15:00:56 <ericP> ACTIONL: AndyS to (try to) compose a test case on inferred triples
15:01:06 <alberto> yes, I can think fo FOAF one at least - let me think more...
15:01:11 <SteveH> SteveH
15:01:15 <ericP> welcome back SteveH
15:01:20 <DanC> Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink is SteveH
15:01:20 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink'
15:01:33 <FarrukhNajmi> FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
15:01:42 <DanC> . ACTION SimonR: write about the "returning bnodes from a query" issue.
15:01:42 <ericP> Zakim, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink is ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink|SteveH
15:01:42 <Zakim> sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink'
15:02:09 <FarrukhNajmi> Apologies to all for dropping in/out. Phone company messing with wires in my streetand internet and phone are dodgy today.
15:02:32 <DanC> ACTION SimonR: write about the "returning bnodes from a query" issue. CONTINUES.
15:02:42 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:02:42 <Zakim> agendum 5. "XQuery integration requirements/objective" taken up [from DanC]
15:03:15 <ericP> ACTION SimonR: write a document discussing tradeoffs with adapting XQuery as an RDF query language for discussion thru the September meeting in Bristol. CONTINUES.
15:03:40 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisRYvette_Hoitink, DaveB, Farrukh_Najmi, JanneS, HowardK, RobS, AndyS, DanC, Enrico (muted), EricP, SimonR, TomAdams, AlbertoR, Farrukh_Najmi.a, kendall, JosD
15:03:44 <kendall> ah, too bad, Simon :>
15:04:39 <DanC> Zakim, take up agendum 8
15:04:39 <Zakim> agendum 8. "BP review of UC&R" taken up [from TomA via DanC]
15:05:02 <ericP> DanC: i asked BP about XQuery
15:05:24 <ericP> TomA: noone had more comments to add
15:05:58 <ericP> ... hopefully more discussion this week. will get back to DAWG with results.
15:06:21 <DanC> # RDF Data Access, XQuery, rules Dan Connolly (Monday, 16 August)  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Aug/0004.html
15:07:16 <DanC> Zakim, close this agendum
15:07:16 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
15:07:17 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:18 <Zakim> 5. XQuery integration requirements/objective [from DanC]
15:07:20 <ericP> TomA: should see interest from Dave ??? (co-chair)
15:07:40 <ericP> ... BP group is about a bunch of task forces
15:08:06 <DaveB> David Wood
15:08:10 <ericP> tx
15:08:12 <DanC> Zakim, close agendum 5
15:08:12 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
15:08:13 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:14 <Zakim> 6. WG meeting schedule [from DanC]
15:08:23 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:08:23 <Zakim> agendum 6. "WG meeting schedule" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:49 <ericP> ACTION EricP: find out the schedule of the 2005 W3C tech plenary and inform the WG so that we can plan ftf meetings after September. WITHDRAWN.
15:10:29 <DanC> action -8
15:10:45 <DanC> RobS: I'm still offering to host, say, in Jan.
15:10:52 <ericP> Kendall and SteveH: further from the beginning of month is better
15:10:59 <ericP> AndyS: no 6-7
15:11:27 <Yoshio> later than 7, please
15:11:33 <ericP> All Jan is good for me.
15:12:04 <TomAdams> All Jan is fine for me also, after the first week would be fine.
15:12:07 <ericP> agenda?
15:13:44 <Yoshio> * Hmm, I don't see what's going on...
15:14:38 <ericP> Yoshio, when does Japan go on daylight (or nightlight) savings time?
15:15:07 <Yoshio> There's no such time in Japan. we only have one time system throughout the year.
15:15:14 <AndyS> 14:30Z or 15:30Z is OK for me
15:15:24 <ericP> hmm, my wmtz is confused
15:15:34 <kendall> i hate discussions pertaining to time zones!
15:15:54 <ericP> i guess maintain curernt Z time is best for Japan and Australia
15:15:56 <Yoshio> I don't want the meeting to shift later than now
15:15:56 <SimonR> All of Jan is fine for me (tentatively), except 13-17th.
15:16:36 <ericP> AndyS: I will be at xmlopen.org and that will restrict my editing abilities
15:17:02 <ericP> ... am keen on doing publish early anyways
15:17:20 <ericP> ... might have a draft of slides before talk.
15:18:05 <ericP> ACTION: AndyS to show xmlopen slides to DAWG one or two days in advance
15:19:02 <DanC> . http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f3/
15:19:56 <rob> refresh the results...
15:20:11 <DanC> please fill it out EVEN if YOU'RE NOT COMING!
15:20:40 <DaveB> I will attend ... July 2004
15:21:20 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
15:21:20 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Use Cases & Requirements done?" taken up [from DanC]
15:21:44 <DaveB> simon's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0304.html
15:22:05 <ericP> brownie points for DamC, KendallC, AndyS, SteveH, YoshioF, Janne, SimonR, DaveB, RobS
15:23:25 <ericP> Kendall: [re union query] will add a paragraph of explanation
15:23:34 <DanC> this is to replace http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#d4.5
15:23:43 <DanC> $Revision: 1.38 $ of $Date: 2004/08/24 19:02:35 $
15:23:47 <DanC> yes?
15:24:26 <ericP> SimonR: my proposal it to replace 4.5
15:24:59 <ericP> ... you get to easily meet three other reqs/goals
15:25:20 <ericP> Kendall: i'd be happy to make 4.5.1 4.5 and add Simon's explanatory paragraph
15:26:06 <ericP> lol
15:26:24 <alberto> q+
15:26:43 <ericP> SimonR: there's some scarey stuff in there so i'm happy to discuss it.
15:26:47 <ericP> q?
15:27:21 <ericP> RobS: response to req -- understand but don't like it.
15:27:26 <ericP> ... will write response.
15:28:08 <ericP> ACTION: RobS to write response to Simon's union query
15:28:52 <ericP> DanC: would be nice if next week, the WG can vote on Kendall's best guess
15:29:00 <rob> What schools?
15:29:03 <alberto> q- can discuss another time about FROM vs. SOURCE into BRQL
15:29:11 <alberto> q-
15:29:32 <ericP> ACTION: JimH, to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use cases. CONTINUES.
15:31:02 <DanC> 2.12 Browsing Patient Records (Health Care) http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#u2.12
15:31:48 <DanC> ACTION RobS: re-play comments on 2.12 Browsing Patient Records for the WG
15:32:12 <ericP> ACTION: RobS write email to Farrukh about traversing a taxonomy. DONE.
15:32:57 <ericP> ACTION Simon+Kendall elaborate the rel. of rules and "construct" in the UC&R doc. CONTINUES.
15:33:21 <DaveB> alberto: earlier you offerered info about a bnode source use case, can you send something?  I think I grok what you want, but an example helps.  thanks
15:34:23 <ericP> DanC: likely we'll have another publication of the UC&R
15:34:33 <alberto> ACTION: Alberto tries to write a UC for bNodes in the SOURCE field
15:34:50 <rob> can I sign off on my action item already?
15:35:11 <ericP> might be worth seeing the fallout
15:35:26 <DanC> Rob's done. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0311.html
15:35:37 <DanC> Zakim, close this agendum
15:35:37 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
15:35:38 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:35:54 <DanC> ADJOURN.
15:36:05 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:36:06 <Zakim> -DaveB
15:36:11 <Zakim> -JosD
15:36:12 <Zakim> -AlbertoR
15:36:14 <Zakim> -JanneS
15:36:18 <Zakim> -kendall
15:36:19 <Zakim> -ChrisRYvette_Hoitink
15:36:21 <Zakim> -Enrico
15:36:27 <alberto> alberto has left #dawg
15:36:42 <Yoshio> Bye ... hoping to join the conversation next time
15:36:47 <EnricoF> EnricoF has left #dawg
15:36:50 <Yoshio> Yoshio has left #dawg
15:36:52 <EnricoF> EnricoF has joined #dawg
15:36:57 <EnricoF> EnricoF has left #dawg
15:36:58 <DanC> ericp, anything else you need to produce a record in the next day or 2?
15:37:11 <TomAdams> Try this: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
15:37:28 <ericP> danc, i think i'm cool
15:37:32 <Zakim> -DanC
15:38:17 <Zakim> -EricP
15:38:21 <Zakim> -TomAdams
15:41:16 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
15:42:34 <Zakim> -HowardK
15:42:35 <Zakim> -RobS
15:42:37 <Zakim> -SimonR
15:42:43 <Zakim> -AndyS
17:33:39 <DanC_> DanC_ has left #dawg
18:11:52 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
18:26:32 <Zakim> -Farrukh_Najmi
18:31:32 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Farrukh_Najmi.a, in SW_DAWG()10:30AM
18:31:34 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
18:31:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Farrukh_Najmi, DaveB, JanneS, HowardK, RobS, AndyS, ChrisR|Yvette_Hoitink, DanC, kendall, +39.047.aabb, EricP, Enrico, [Tucana], TomAdams, SimonR, +46.3.17.40.aacc,
18:31:38 <Zakim> ... AlbertoR, JosD
19:00:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg