17:56:22 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:56:25 aharth has joined #swbp 17:56:32 hi 17:56:33 Meeting: SemWeb BPD WG 17:56:38 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0072.html 17:56:42 Chair: David 17:56:47 Regrets: Brian, Alan, DanBri, Libby, Jos; at risk: Deb, Guus, Evan 17:56:52 zakim, this will be swbp 17:56:52 ok, Ralph; I see SW_BPD()2:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 17:56:59 zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-agenda.rdf 17:56:59 working on it, Ralph 17:57:01 agenda+ Administrivia [Guus/Chair] 17:57:02 agendum 1 added 17:57:03 agenda+ Action Item Review [Guus/Chair] 17:57:04 agendum 2 added 17:57:05 agenda+ TF Updates [Guus/Chair] 17:57:06 agendum 3 added 17:57:07 done reading agenda, Ralph 17:57:39 David_Wood has joined #swbp 17:57:42 From Steve Pepper & Lars Marius Garshol (Ontopia) 17:57:42 Joined W3C and SWBP this week (Hi everyone) 17:57:42 Regrets - unable to attend concall due to prior arr. 17:57:42 Wish to initiate RDF/TM Interoperability TF asap 17:57:42 Will post proposal to mailing list shortly 17:57:43 BR 17:58:14 SW_BPD()2:00PM has now started 17:58:21 +David_Wood 17:58:22 hello, Steve; welcome to the Working Group (and to W3C!) 17:58:28 thx 17:58:39 +Ralph 17:58:42 -David_Wood 17:58:43 +David_Wood 17:58:44 sorry i can't attend the concall today - too short notice 17:59:02 sorry, Steve 17:59:11 +??P2 17:59:29 please mention our interest in initiating RDF/TM Interop TF 17:59:38 zakim, ??p2 is Andreas_Harth 17:59:38 +Andreas_Harth; got it 17:59:50 ok, Steve 17:59:53 +??P3 18:00:00 TomAdams has joined #swbp 18:00:07 zakim, ??p3 is Tom_Baker 18:00:07 +Tom_Baker; got it 18:00:55 +[Tucana] 18:01:04 zakim, tucana is Tom_Adams 18:01:04 +Tom_Adams; got it 18:01:39 +??P5 18:02:05 zakim, ??p5 is Mike_Uschold 18:02:05 +Mike_Uschold; got it 18:02:46 +Gary_Ng 18:03:51 rrsagent, please make logs world-visible 18:04:04 have a good meeting, folks! 18:04:41 pepper has left #swbp 18:04:54 MIkeU has joined #swbp 18:05:08 Regrets: Brian, Alan, DanBri, Libby, Jos, Deb, Steve Pepper 18:05:19 -Gary_Ng 18:05:31 Regrets: Guus 18:05:35 Natasha has joined #swbp 18:05:45 +Gary_Ng 18:06:12 +??P8 18:06:22 zakim, mute gary 18:06:22 Gary_Ng should now be muted 18:06:29 +??P7 18:06:47 aliman has joined #swbp 18:07:00 zakim, ??p7 is Natasha 18:07:00 +Natasha; got it 18:07:05 zakim, ??p8 is Alistair 18:07:05 +Alistair; got it 18:07:13 zakim, pick a victim 18:07:13 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph 18:07:20 ok, I'll do it 18:07:36 Scribe: Natasha 18:07:47 zakim, who is here 18:07:47 David_Wood, you need to end that query with '?' 18:07:55 zakim, who is here? 18:07:55 On the phone I see David_Wood, Ralph, Andreas_Harth (muted), Tom_Baker, Tom_Adams, Mike_Uschold, Gary_Ng (muted), Alistair, Natasha 18:07:57 On IRC I see aliman, Natasha, MIkeU, TomAdams, David_Wood, aharth, RRSAgent, Tbaker, Zakim, Ralph 18:08:08 zakim, take up agendum 1 18:08:08 agendum 1. "Administrivia" taken up [from Guus/Chair] 18:08:18 PROPOSED accept minutes of the last telecon 18:08:25 MikeU second 18:08:36 RESOLVED to accept the minutes 18:08:46 Next telecon September 2nd 18:09:25 David: any problems for the earlier time for the next telecon (1400 UTC) 18:09:35 possible conflict with a telecon for WG chairs 18:10:20 Either Ralph or David will chair the SWBP WG telecon next time 18:10:43 another possibility is to start the WG meeting at 1430UTC and have a 60-min meeting 18:10:59 RESOLVED: next meeting at 1430 UTC, 2nd September 18:11:13 I shall be unavailable for the 2nd Sept meeting. Preliminary regrets. 18:11:24 DavidL f2f location 18:11:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/2ndf2f/ straw poll on f2f location 18:11:47 Initial results of the straw poll look contentious 18:12:02 Zakim, mute Alistair 18:12:02 Alistair should now be muted 18:12:21 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/2ndf2f/results current results (11 responses) 18:12:41 the straw poll currently expires next week 18:12:58 David encourages everyone to vote before the deadline so that we can decide on teh date and time 18:13:11 Ralph: we also need an 8-week lead-in period 18:13:55 David: proposes to discuss the straw poll results on teh mailing list and choose on September 2nd 18:14:07 If it is hiroshima,, September 2nd is our last chance to decide 18:14:18 ACTION Ralph link the tutorial page from the home page 18:14:23 done 18:14:24 zakim, move to next agendum 18:14:24 agendum 2. "Action Item Review" taken up [from Guus/Chair] 18:14:33 ACTION ralph & guus to set up straw poll as web form for location of next 18:14:33 F2F 18:14:34 done 18:14:41 ACTION TomA to add links from last telecon to tutorials page 18:14:50 done, but have not committed the changes yet 18:14:53 Tutorials linked under http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/#FreqLinks1 18:14:57 Tom thanks everyone for submitting the links 18:15:10 ACTION Alan to respond to guus' document on qualified cardinality 18:15:10 constraints 18:15:26 continued 18:15:31 ACTION TomA get MINDLAB to write description of urchin for APDTF weblog 18:15:34 continued 18:16:21 ACTION Ralph to link ADTF blog from WG page 18:16:24 done 18:16:26 ESW weblog linked at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/#Tasks under ATDF 18:16:34 ACTION Ralph do an analysis of which WG participants have been able to 18:16:34 attend at which meeting time. 18:16:38 continued 18:16:44 ACTION Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents. 18:17:17 continued 18:17:22 ACTION Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list. 18:17:25 continued 18:17:29 ACTION Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model. 18:17:31 continued 18:17:32 I think I promised to help Jeremy with this and we've not talked 18:17:46 Jeremy is not here and no one is aware of any action on teh three items above 18:17:49 Zakim, unmute Alistair 18:17:49 Alistair should no longer be muted 18:17:58 zakim, move to next agendum 18:17:58 agendum 3. "TF Updates" taken up [from Guus/Chair] 18:18:01 TF updates 18:18:09 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0085.html 18:18:19 for update on PORT TF 18:18:23 Natasha: there has been considerable feedback on N-ary relations 18:18:29 ... little feedback on the other notes 18:18:36 OEP: continuing discussion on OEP notes on the mailing list 18:19:05 PORT: link with update posted by Alistair 18:20:13 WordNet: no one from teh TF present 18:20:51 XML Schema datatypes: no updates (no one from the TF present) 18:21:11 Vocabulary management (TomB): Tom will post an updated draft of the TF description 18:21:30 Tom: the update will be in the form of a straw poll of TF members to determine how likely the 18:21:46 members are to agree on the scope; to determine which items are in scope or out of scope 18:22:02 Tom will post it next week with the goal to get it rolling by the end of the month 18:22:37 HTML (Ben): TomA was on the telecon 18:22:40 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0075.html [HTML] next telecon for RDF-in-XHTML in early September [Ben 2004-08-18] 18:22:44 the telecon minutes were posted to the list 18:23:17 David: think it's an important TF and would like to encourage participation 18:24:00 There is a poll on the next TF meeting (proposed date: September 7th) 18:24:34 there are no responses yet. there is enough time to get more participation 18:25:55 Ralph and Ben had a conversation with Tomaso on teh formality of the WG communication 18:26:22 Ralph: We would like to see them have a more formal reference to this TF in their charter 18:26:53 David: Ben has done as much as he could do to get the TF started, arranging a telecon, etc. 18:27:08 it is in our hands to respond to his email 18:27:11 The XHTML TF will conduct its discussions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/ 18:27:21 no specific action items though 18:27:33 ADTF: no one is here from the TF 18:27:58 most of the ADTF folk are at the FOAF workshop 18:28:07 Tutorial page (TomA): needs to commit the updates 18:28:07 [/me looks forward to a report from that workshop] 18:28:34 ACTION: Tom to post to the mailing list when it is done and request comments 18:28:50 q+ to speak about DAWG email 18:28:54 Ontopia 18:29:07 Ralph: Ontopia has recently joined W3C 18:29:38 http://www.ontopia.net/ 18:29:48 they are one of several commercial companies heavily oinvolved in topic maps 18:30:11 they joined W3C with the hope that this WG will be interested in discussing the relationship between TM and SW 18:30:36 TMs close to thesaurus work ... 18:30:48 Some contributions from TM folks on public-esw-thes@w3.org 18:30:59 There was some interest at the March f2f in Cannes 18:31:47 the url for ontopia: ontopia,net (although it doesn't seem to work at the moment) 18:32:26 TomA (?): we have some customers who have interest in TM 18:32:33 zakim, where is +47? 18:32:33 country code 47 is Norway 18:32:46 many of them are interested in both RDF and TM, and therefore they will be interested in their interoperability 18:33:14 Many of the issues that the TM guys came across are now coming up in the THES TF 18:33:24 This could be a good bridge between the groups 18:33:48 Steve Pepper from Ontopia was very keen on getting the TM TF started 18:33:59 We can't call it TM TF though 18:34:07 A possible name: RDF?TN 18:34:14 sorry -- RDF/TM 18:34:24 we'll find a name later 18:34:43 the general goal of the TF is to investigate interoperability of TM and RDF 18:34:51 Bernard has written papers on this topic 18:35:01 he could be a potential TF coordinator 18:35:36 ACTION Ralph to contact Bernard regarding Topic Maps TF 18:36:13 +Deb_McGuinness 18:36:31 It would be good Griddle people involved -- they have relevant technology 18:37:36 s/Griddle/GRDDL/ 18:38:05 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/ Gleaning Resource Descriptions from Dialects of Languages (GRDDL) 18:38:12 Deb -- update on OEP: The topic came up on whether we should minimize teh number of triples 18:38:24 This may be a theme that could come up in a number of notes 18:39:42 Natasha: in more recent mail, the commenter modified his position 18:39:48 The issue has been resolved on the list as far as this particular note 18:40:41 Deb: on f2f -- please distribute between East and West Coast 18:40:45 locations 18:41:13 Ralph: there is certainly a desire to spread out the f2f meetings 18:41:22 s/Ralph/David/ 18:41:47 dlm has joined #swbp 18:41:51 ACTION: Ralph find e-mailed f2f responses and impersonate them into the straw poll 18:42:09 there were also some responses to David and Guus separately 18:42:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0061.html 18:42:38 zakim, close this agendum 18:42:38 agendum 3 closed 18:42:39 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 18:42:45 Topic: Data Access Working Group 18:42:49 TomAdams, you wanted to speak about DAWG email 18:43:09 Tom: data access WG has just released use cases and requirements 18:43:23 Tom asks people on this WG to take a look at the document 18:43:47 Tom will be happy to relay the comments from teh BP mailing list to Data Access people 18:44:02 There can also be a formal liason between two WG 18:44:25 Ralph: if there are several WG members who want to generate a formal response, we can do that 18:44:51 DAG is settleed around triple-like syntax, but network Inference has raised some significant discussion 18:45:02 on whether XQuery should be considered as RDF Query language 18:45:15 The DAG is moving on this and has asked the BP WG to comment 18:45:27 This issue will have an impact on how an RDF Query language will look like 18:45:36 s/DAG/DAWG 18:45:55 we will spend some time discussing this at the next telecon 18:46:23 Ralph: do we want to generate a WG response? 18:46:35 Tom? : leaning that way. how do we do that formally? 18:47:02 s/Tom?/David 18:47:06 Ralph: we can do the TF model, asking for people who can contribute some time to this over the next couple of weeks 18:47:42 [[ 18:47:42 .. we're particularly interested 18:47:42 in feedback on a couple things: 18:47:42 Anybody have experience with XQuery/RDF integration to share? 18:47:42 ... 18:47:43 Any rules/query integration experience to share? Thoughts 18:47:45 on best practices for accessing RDF data, while rules 18:47:47 work is still in the early stages of standardization? 18:47:49 ]] 18:47:51 -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0061.html 18:48:00 David would like to see some discussion on the mailing list (if there is no siginificant discusccion, perhaps there is not much interest? 18:48:43 David will contact danC to tell him that we are putting it on the agenda 18:50:13 there is also an overlap here with ADTF 18:51:38 Ralph: because of our name and broad charter, we may often be asked to comment on things like that 18:51:56 and we sometimes may have to say that we don't wish to take it on 18:52:18 David: how do we determine if there is enough interest in particular issue that we asked to look at 18:52:34 David would like to see some objective, concrete mechanism to determine the level of interest 18:53:22 a straw poll perhaps? 18:53:34 it is easier to start a thread on the mailing list 18:54:04 ACTION: David to ask on the mailing list whether there is an interest to generate a formal response to DanC note 18:54:26 we'll try to get some response between now and September 2nd telecon 18:54:58 Deb: Jeff Pollock and ?? from Network Inference may respond on the mailing list 18:56:37 Gary: Also thinks that an email discussion is going to be a good way to do it 18:58:10 ACTION TomA get MINDLAB to write description of urchin for APDTF weblog 18:58:12 done 18:58:28 rrsagent, pointer? 18:58:28 See http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-irc#T18-58-28 18:59:07 Deb: there was a proposal to do a note on units and measures 18:59:21 Natasha thinks that Guus has signed up for that (nut not entirely sure) 18:59:39 Action TomA on Mindlab; http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-irc#T18-15-31 18:59:41 Deb is willing to contribute but warns that it could be a very large amount of work to do it well 19:01:35 units and measures is a specific request from the Device Independence Working Group 19:03:24 What Deb has in mind is a good survey of existing units and measures ontology 19:03:33 and doing it in OWL (not RDF) 19:03:54 ??: Is this an ontology development activity? 19:04:18 Deb: my interpretation of the original request is to do a survey of existing ontologies (and that already is already a very large task) 19:04:25 s/??/David/ 19:04:36 developing an ontology is a much bigger task. 19:04:48 q+ to ask if the representation of RDF with units is clear assuming a units ontology exists 19:05:09 David: has no reason to believe that Guus has taken this on as a major activity 19:06:24 Ralph: Postulating that there is at least one ontology of units, is it clear how one would write RDF instance data using that ontology 19:06:32 Deb: yes, should be reasonably clear 19:06:39 Ralph, you wanted to ask if the representation of RDF with units is clear assuming a units ontology exists 19:07:04 David: not so sure that it would be so easy 19:07:27 I recall suggestions that data types could be used to represent units 19:08:05 Deb: there are two different issues: (1) how much do you need to model? and (2) if someone already ahs a representation, is it straightforard how to represent this in OWL 19:11:25 Natasha: Perhaps we can have a note that avoids the issue of what a good ontology for units and measures is, postulating some simple one ("suppose that's what you have") 19:11:35 and presenting how you would use it in OWL/RDF 19:11:55 we need to ask Guus what he had in mind (and what he has already committed to) 19:13:12 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0108.html Re: DIWG Requests Guidance on Ontologies for Units [DWood 2004-07-23] 19:13:34 Tbaker has joined #swbp 19:14:34 David will ask for DIWG requirements at a coordination telecon tomorrow 19:16:48 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2004Jul/0069.html meeting record: 2004-07-30 SemWeb CG 19:18:40 DIWG thoughts on units and ontologies: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-di-wg/2004Jul/0035.html 19:18:50 [[ We would like to have a high-level specification that was 19:18:50 independent of underlying representation for multimedia devices, the 19:18:50 actual underlying structure becomes more important. A tree structure 19:18:50 seems to be important to MMI WG. We are interested in access 19:18:50 patterns that use XPath as well as others. There is no 1-1 19:18:51 correspondence between RDF and an underlying XML document. It 19:18:53 might be possible to present a tree for an underlying canonical 19:18:55 form of RDF 19:18:57 ]] 19:18:59 -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2004Jul/0069.html 19:20:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0092.html is mike's email 19:22:56 Natasha, Deb: we're happy to help with a note on how to use an ontology of units with RDF/OWL but we don't have time to lead this 19:23:08 David encourages Deb to raise this issue on the mailing list again to see if we can get an IEO note on representing units 19:23:45 meeting adjourned 19:23:48 -Tom_Adams 19:23:49 -Alistair 19:23:50 -Gary_Ng 19:23:51 -Deb_McGuinness 19:23:52 -Natasha 19:23:53 -David_Wood 19:23:55 -Andreas_Harth 19:23:57 -Mike_Uschold 19:23:59 -Ralph 19:24:03 -Tom_Baker 19:24:04 Natasha has left #swbp 19:24:06 SW_BPD()2:00PM has ended 19:24:07 Attendees were David_Wood, Ralph, Andreas_Harth, Tom_Baker, [Tucana], Tom_Adams, Mike_Uschold, Gary_Ng, Natasha, Alistair, Deb_McGuinness 19:24:24 rrsagent, bye 19:24:24 I see 3 open action items: 19:24:24 ACTION: Tom to post to the mailing list when it is done and request comments [1] 19:24:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-irc#T18-28-34 19:24:24 ACTION: Ralph find e-mailed f2f responses and impersonate them into the straw poll [2] 19:24:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-irc#T18-41-51 19:24:24 ACTION: David to ask on the mailing list whether there is an interest to generate a formal response to DanC note [3] 19:24:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/19-swbp-irc#T18-54-04