13:57:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
13:57:56 <Tbaker> Tbaker has joined #swbp
13:57:57 <David_Wood> David_Wood has joined #swbp
13:58:09 <Ralph> Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices & Deployment WG
13:58:16 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0021.html
13:58:22 <Ralph> Previous: 2004-07-22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0109.html
13:58:36 <bwm> bwm has joined #swbp
13:58:40 <Ralph> Regrets: Ben, Deb, Jacco, Natasha
13:59:05 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:59:38 <Zakim> +??P5
13:59:49 <Zakim> +Guus
13:59:53 <Zakim> +??P6
14:00:02 <bwm> Zakim, ??p5 is bwm
14:00:02 <Zakim> +bwm; got it
14:00:06 <Zakim> +??P7
14:00:08 <Zakim> +??P8
14:00:24 <Ralph> zakim, ??p6 is Tom_Baker
14:00:24 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker; got it
14:00:40 <Ralph> zakim, ??p7 is Andreas
14:00:40 <Zakim> +Andreas; got it
14:00:51 <Ralph> zakim, ??p8 is Alistair
14:00:51 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
14:01:33 <Zakim> +Tom_Adams
14:01:58 <Zakim> +??P14
14:02:06 <Ralph> zakim, ??p14 is Alan
14:02:14 <Zakim> +Alan; got it
14:02:14 <guus> zakim, ??p14 is Alan
14:02:16 <Zakim> I already had ??P14 as Alan, guus
14:02:31 <Zakim> +DanBri
14:02:36 <Alan> Alan has joined #swbp
14:04:09 <Ralph> zakim, pick a scribe
14:04:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Alistair
14:04:39 <libby> libby has joined #swbp
14:05:12 <Ralph> zakim, list attendees
14:05:12 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been David_Wood, Ralph, Guus, bwm, Tom_Baker, Andreas, Alistair, Tom_Adams, Alan, DanBri, Libby
14:06:01 <aliman> guus: proposed to accept minutes of last telecon
14:06:19 <aliman> accepted
14:06:36 <Ralph> RESOLVED: minutes of 22 July telecon accepted
14:06:55 <aliman> guus: next telecon is proposed for august 19 at 1800 UTC
14:07:04 <aharth> aharth has joined #swbp
14:07:07 <Alan> note: I shall have to drop out around 15:10 UTC Alan
14:07:32 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tom_Baker
14:07:43 <Ralph> ... for next meeting
14:07:51 <Ralph> DanBri: possible regrets
14:08:20 <Ralph> Tom: suggest adding Urchin to applications page
14:08:26 <Ralph> s/Tom/TomA/
14:08:29 <TomAdams> Will handle in 6.7. Thanks.
14:09:20 <Ralph> Topic: ACTION REVIEW
14:09:51 <aliman> ACTION Tom Adams to send SSH 2 key to Ralph.
14:09:53 <aliman> done
14:10:05 <aliman> ACTION Deb to provide a link to the ontolingua units and measures
14:10:06 <aliman> ontology by tom gruber.
14:10:07 <aliman> done
14:10:16 <Tbaker> I should be okay to scribe on Aug 19 but would appreciate seeing someone's raw notes as a guide...
14:10:18 <Ralph> ACTION Ralph do an analysis of which WG participants have been able to attend at which meeting time.
14:10:22 <Ralph> continue
14:10:27 <aliman> ACTION David Wood, get back to Rhys Lewis that SWBP&D WG has interest
14:10:27 <aliman> and will get back to him when we know more.
14:10:30 <aliman> done
14:10:43 <TomAdams> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/Tutorials.html
14:10:46 <aliman> ACTION Natasha to send note to SW interest group.
14:10:48 <aliman> done
14:11:10 <aliman> ACTION Tom Adams to work on tutorial page.
14:11:33 <aliman> done (with content to be discussed further)
14:11:39 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph link the tutorial page from the home page
14:12:04 <aliman> ACTION Brian & Jeremy to join wordnet mailing list.
14:12:23 <aliman> done for Brian continued for Jeremy
14:12:41 <aliman> ACTION Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents.
14:13:09 <aliman> continued
14:13:18 <aliman> ACTION Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list.
14:13:20 <aliman> continued
14:13:31 <aliman> ACTION Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query
14:13:31 <aliman> model.
14:13:33 <aliman> continued
14:13:49 <aliman> ACTION Ben to solicit interested members in RDF in XHTML TF.
14:14:15 <aliman> done
14:14:33 <aliman> ACTION ralph CVS access for Aldo, Natasha, Tom
14:14:45 <aliman> done for Tom, waiting for SSH keys from others
14:15:04 <aliman> ACTION Guus to review aldo's wordnet proposal doc
14:15:11 <aliman> done
14:15:50 <aliman> ACTION Guus (1) is it the right type of approach? (2) alternative
14:15:50 <aliman>  ontoligies for units?
14:16:08 <aliman> withdrawn
14:16:34 <aliman> ACTION Ralph move VM TF description from 
14:16:34 <aliman> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jun/0136.html>
14:16:34 <aliman>  into Group Web space
14:16:37 <Tbaker> Tbaker has joined #swbp
14:16:40 <Ralph> done
14:16:40 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/ SWBPD Vocabulary Management Task Force Description
14:17:02 <Tbaker> Thank you Ralph
14:17:02 <aliman> Topic: DIWG; URIs for units and MIME Types
14:18:12 <aliman> guus: proposed to leave this issue and await response ...
14:18:19 <aliman> from Rhys Lewis
14:18:28 <aliman> RESOLVED
14:18:50 <aliman> Topic: Location and schedule of F2F meeting
14:19:41 <aliman> guus: options for Japan ... possibilities for room in same hotel as ISWC ...
14:20:07 <Alan> alan - I shall be there
14:20:18 <aliman> Zakim, who is here?
14:20:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Guus, Tom_Baker, Alistair, Andreas, Tom_Adams, Alan, Redland
14:20:20 <Zakim> Redland has DanBri, Libby
14:20:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see Tbaker, aharth, libby, Alan, bwm, David_Wood, RRSAgent, TomAdams, guus, Zakim, danbri, aliman, Ralph
14:20:27 <aliman> attendees at ISWC ...
14:20:34 <aliman> David wood: maybe
14:20:48 <aliman> Ralph: unknown
14:20:58 <aliman> bwm: unknown
14:21:02 <aliman> guus: yes
14:21:08 <aliman> TomB: probably not
14:21:15 <aliman> Alistair: unknown
14:21:21 <aliman> Andreas: probably yes
14:21:29 <aliman> TomAdams: probably not
14:21:38 <aliman> Alan: yes
14:21:47 <aliman> danbri: probably yes
14:21:52 <aliman> libby: probably yes
14:22:37 <aliman> guus: other locations?
14:22:43 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
14:22:47 <aliman> Ralph: no hard requirement re location
14:23:18 <aliman> Evan at ISWC: no
14:23:52 <aliman> guus: straw poll on the web?
14:24:22 <aliman> ACTION: ralph & guus to set up straw poll as web form for location of next F2F
14:26:13 <aliman> guus: N.B. likely that F2F after next will be at next tech plenary in boston
14:26:18 <Zakim> + +1.978.887.aaaa
14:26:30 <Alan> Are dates known?
14:26:37 <Ralph> zakim, aaaa is Bob_Powers
14:26:37 <Zakim> +Bob_Powers; got it
14:26:37 <aliman> Ralph: exact location for tech plen unknown
14:28:25 <danbri> [unexpected caller, Bob, joins from http://www.east-shore.com/ ]
14:29:09 <danbri> anyone unhappy with him staying?
14:29:56 <Zakim> -Bob_Powers
14:31:29 <Ralph> [we're not upset at the visitor, just surprised]
14:31:33 <danbri> [+1]
14:31:43 <aliman> Topic: Tutorial Page
14:31:53 <aliman> Status from tom:
14:31:58 <aliman> (tomA)
14:32:18 <aliman> next step to use standard style
14:32:39 <aliman> ongoing process ... maybe wiki in future?
14:32:55 <TomAdams> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/Tutorials.html
14:33:42 <aliman> guus: include tutorials in list of TFs?
14:34:08 <aliman> will anyone give TomA a hand?
14:34:30 <aliman> Alan has links to OWL tutorials
14:35:29 <aliman> ACTION: TomA to add links from last telecon to tutorials page
14:35:47 <aliman> Topic: TF updates
14:35:54 <aliman> Topic: OEP 
14:36:18 <Ralph> [suggestion for tutorial page: "URIs in your face" are not W3C style.  better to have them as links with some description]
14:36:37 <aliman> guus: Congrats on publishing 3 notes & lots of comments coming in
14:36:48 <aliman> guus: separate list for comments?
14:37:01 <aliman> Ralph: one list is OK 
14:37:18 <danbri> q+ to agree that its managable on current list
14:37:31 <Alan> I am happy with one list for now.  Let's see what happens
14:37:31 <TomAdams> [Yes, thanks. I don't like them either, they were just my notes and I wanted to get it in CVS first, then work on cleaning them up.]
14:37:37 <danbri> ack danbri
14:37:37 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to agree that its managable on current list
14:37:58 <Ralph> [right, Tom; I suspected as much.  "notes" is fine]
14:38:20 <aliman> guus: qualified cardinality constraints ... Alan comments?
14:39:17 <aliman> ACTION: Alan to respond to guus' document on qualified cardinality constraints
14:39:37 <aliman> Ralph: what's next for OEP?
14:39:48 <aliman> guus: units and measures 
14:39:59 <aliman> Alan: note on closure axioms
14:40:20 <aliman> ... short note indeed.
14:40:29 <aharth_> aharth_ has joined #swbp
14:41:07 <aliman> Topic: PORT
14:41:37 <danbri> danbri: suggest listing alistair as TF coordinator
14:41:43 <danbri> agreed
14:42:08 <danbri> aliman: after we agreed to go ahead w/ phased dev of skos core vocab, i sent notes to public-esw-thes, RDF/SW IG list, and to NKOS thes list
14:42:16 <danbri> ...have been trying to kick off that process
14:42:26 <danbri> ...got some discussions going on, public-esw-thes, 
14:42:34 <Ralph> [if Alistair agrees to take the Coordinator role, I will so note on the home page and in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/mission ]
14:42:36 <danbri> ...expecting about a month of that before having something note-shaped
14:42:45 <danbri> [ralph, pls do]
14:43:25 <Ralph> [ok will do unless I hear objection from Alistair soon]
14:43:42 <danbri> danbri: nice to have thes folk involved
14:43:53 <danbri> ...also interest perhaps here in the vocab maturity ns we're using there
14:44:08 <danbri> aliman: one way of tracking status is the term status vocab (draft) adopted from foaf
14:44:15 <danbri> ...also looking at owl versioning features
14:44:30 <danbri> ...could bring that back in here, esp to Vocab Management TF, which is why I'm interested there
14:44:42 <danbri> ...perhaps ultimately to a Note re collab schema dev't
14:44:57 <guus> q?
14:45:06 <aliman> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SkosDev_2fSchemaManagement
14:45:14 <Alan> Apologies - I have to go
14:45:23 <Zakim> -Alan
14:45:57 <Tbaker> Let's coordinate with VM, yes
14:46:08 <danbri> guus: issues, eg ns management stuff, need coordinating?
14:46:24 <danbri> ... things like URIs, ns names, etc. would be covered by that TF
14:46:52 <Tbaker> Strongly agree
14:46:58 <danbri> aliman: the wiki link... i made that stuff up, talked w/ dan etc., as nothing like it seemed to exist (that I could find). Could/should feed into further discussions.
14:47:10 <danbri> guus: when VM TF gets started, we might want to do some sync there
14:47:26 <David_Wood> zakim, mute David_Wood
14:47:26 <Zakim> David_Wood should now be muted
14:47:35 <danbri> Wordnet TF
14:47:38 <danbri> --------
14:47:41 <aliman> Topic: Wordnet TF
14:47:45 <danbri> Brian: I think we're hit by holiday period...
14:48:07 <danbri> ...I've not had much time, some actions still outstanding, not a lot happening currently.
14:48:24 <danbri> guus: reading draft yesterday, seemed your note not 100% matching the RDF description
14:48:31 <danbri> brian: may be correct, not deliberate
14:48:47 <danbri> guus: eg you mentioned tag-count in the rdf...
14:48:52 <danbri> ...is that same as sense-number?
14:49:10 <danbri> q+ to ask/mention multiwordnet
14:49:17 <danbri> brian: it's really just a placeholder doc
14:49:22 <danbri> guus: I'm happy to contribute
14:49:31 <danbri> brian: great. any particular way?
14:49:39 <danbri> guus: writing, revising, etc
14:49:48 <danbri> ...eg one issue is identifer policy re synsets
14:50:11 <danbri> (see minutes from TF by jjc)
14:50:23 <danbri> q?
14:50:40 <danbri> http://multiwordnet.itc.it/
14:50:49 <danbri> [[
14:50:50 <danbri>  MultiWordNet is a multilingual lexical database in which the Italian WordNet is strictly aligned with Princeton WordNet 1.6.
14:50:50 <danbri> ]]
14:50:55 <danbri> 6.4
14:50:56 <danbri> ---
14:51:06 <danbri> JJC not here, he sent update re telcon he atttended.
14:51:10 <Ralph> [ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0065.html [WNET] TF minutes for 8th July [Jeremy 2004-07-20]]
14:51:25 <danbri> 6.5 Vocab Management
14:51:27 <danbri> -------------
14:51:34 <danbri> Tom: will start after summer
14:52:13 <danbri> ...cut down TF overview, want to revisit the extra text/ideas
14:52:22 <Ralph> s/Tom:/TomB:/
14:52:33 <danbri> ....want to survey members of the group about how likely it seems for each item, whether it is in scope
14:52:45 <danbri> ...whether we think gut feeling is that consensus achievable
14:53:18 <danbri> ...v generally, I see a 'pt 1', ie. low hanging fruits, and a 'pt 2', more controversial issues, and summarise points of debate/disagreement, ie. where practice hasn't sufficiently matured.
14:53:34 <danbri> ...I propose to get back to the members of the group w/ survey on this
14:54:08 <danbri> ...to help set scope/priorities
14:54:14 <danbri> ...Ralph has posted TF description on the Web
14:54:18 <danbri> ...we're on track.
14:54:37 <aliman> +1 on survey
14:54:37 <danbri> danbri: method seems good to me
14:54:47 <danbri> HTML/RDF TF
14:54:50 <danbri> -----------
14:54:51 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Aug/0020.html (minutes of) Re: Renewed RDF/XHTML task force - first telecon [DanBri 2004-07-04]
14:54:51 <David_Wood> zalim, unmute David_Wood
14:55:02 <David_Wood> zakim, unmute David_Wood
14:55:02 <Zakim> David_Wood should no longer be muted
14:55:31 <Ralph> DanBri: we talked about GRDDL and the XTML work
14:55:50 <Ralph> ... we were a bit surprised that a new XHTML 2.0 WD came out with the Birbeck proposal integrated
14:56:13 <Ralph> ... they described RDF again from first principles [without normatively referencing RDF]
14:56:42 <aliman> guus: what should be the output?
14:56:58 <aliman> danbri: revisit the requirements to help the html guys
14:57:04 <aliman> QA the html guys spec
14:57:11 <Ralph> DanBri... TF will be reviewing [sections 19 and 20 of] the XHTML 2.0 WD hoping to get feedback to Ben in 2-3 weeks
14:57:13 <aliman> revisit test case method used ni rdf-core
14:57:23 <aliman> also grddl note
14:57:27 <aliman> ?
14:58:05 <aliman> Ralph: how much endorsement should this WG give to XHTML 2.0 and GRDDL proposals?
14:58:57 <aliman> ... hope to reach a consensus on whether to recommend/endorse these
14:59:08 <aliman> ... then can consider a note on how to use
14:59:15 <aliman> guus: public expects guidance note
14:59:28 <aliman> Ralph: met with html WG in march ...
14:59:42 <aliman> they want feedback from thiw WG on bribeck proposal
15:00:02 <aliman> ... so we should give some feedback in timely manner
15:00:28 <aliman> danbri: should have an XHTML -> RDF/XML parser soon
15:01:11 <aliman> Ralph: evaluate XHTML 2.0 & GRDDL then look elsewhere
15:01:17 <danbri> XHTML/RDF notation to RDF/XML, yes. (Max Froumentin is working on this)
15:01:41 <aliman> David_Wood: V. important TF
15:02:06 <aliman> ... it would be a shame for XHTML guys to go in parallel to RDF 
15:02:12 <danbri> [see recent discussion in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/]
15:02:22 <aliman> ... encourages TF joining
15:02:35 <aliman> guus: supports importance 
15:03:38 <aliman> David_Wood: risk is fork in the concepts ..
15:03:58 <aliman> Ralph: so normative reference to RDF from XHTML needed
15:04:17 <aliman> danbri: current XHTML spec doesnt ref RDF ...
15:04:24 <Ralph> Ralph: it is important to normatively reference RDF to minimize misinterpretations about the semantics of the RDF/HTML syntax
15:04:36 <aliman> ... if RDF referred from XHTML then people can figure out how to use existing RDF vocabs
15:04:47 <aliman> Topic: ADTF
15:04:48 <TomAdams> public-semweb-lifesci
15:04:54 <TomAdams> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2004Aug/0003.html
15:05:13 <danbri> [ralph, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/ is out of date / misleading. Do you have a sense of what it should instead say? ]
15:05:24 <aliman> TomAdams: nature released urchin
15:05:50 <aliman> ... propose to add as application?
15:05:58 <aliman> libby: sounds plausible as app
15:06:03 <Ralph> [I was just realizing that yesterday, DanBri; I'll work [with Ben] on updating the public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf header]
15:06:22 <danbri> [thanks Ralph!]
15:06:32 <aliman> libby: can give login to weblog to add apps and demos
15:06:37 <aliman> ... to toma
15:06:56 <aliman> TomAdams: mindlab doing some work with urchin
15:07:23 <aliman> ACTION: TomA get MINDLAB to write description of urchin for APDTF weblog
15:07:47 <aliman> libby: happy to add things other people suggest
15:07:54 <danbri> http://www.biopathways.org/semweb/RSS_WG/
15:07:55 <danbri> [[
15:07:55 <danbri> Urchin RSS/RDF case study from Nature
15:07:55 <danbri> Contributed by Timo Hannay, Nature Publishing Group
15:07:56 <danbri> ]]
15:08:08 <libby> please tell me stuff for the adtf :)
15:08:48 <guus> q?
15:09:05 <aliman> David_Wood: should add kowari to apps and demos section
15:09:27 <danbri> http://www.nature.com/naturejobs/jobs/biologicalsciences.rdf ... Job vocab looks sensible. It keeps job advert and job distinct
15:09:31 <aliman> libby: apps and demos not really about ap frameworks - higher level
15:09:50 <danbri> as did http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/2000/11/rss-query/
15:09:57 <TomAdams> More Urchin work: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2004Aug/0003.html, http://otn.oracle.com/industries/life_sciences/presentations/olsug_0402/olsug_0402_10Hannay_Nature.ppt
15:10:16 <aliman> David_Wood: DC is an application 
15:10:37 <aliman> http://esw.w3.org/mt/esw/archives/cat_applications_and_demos.html
15:11:08 <aliman> main esw blog http://esw.w3.org/mt/esw/
15:11:23 <aliman> guus: propose to let go for a while then think about reorganising
15:11:36 <aliman> David_Wood: same problem for TomA - how much to centralise info?
15:12:03 <aliman> libby: wiki might have been better for ADTF ..
15:12:10 <aliman> ... because then anyone could add to it.
15:12:38 <Ralph> [I write a note to myself to link esw.w3.org/mt/esw/archives/cat_applications_and_demos.html closer to ADTF on our WG page]
15:12:58 <aliman> ACTION: Ralph to link ADTF blog from WG page
15:13:17 <aliman> guus: move this useful resources up front?
15:13:24 <aliman> David_Wood: these things should be periodically reviewed
15:14:13 <aliman> meeting adjourned
15:14:16 <aliman> thanks all
15:14:28 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
15:14:29 <Zakim> -bwm
15:14:30 <Zakim> -Tom_Adams
15:14:30 <aliman> next telecon two weeks 1800 UTC
15:14:32 <Zakim> -David_Wood
15:14:33 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
15:14:39 <Zakim> -Andreas
15:14:39 <TomAdams> TomAdams has left #swbp
15:14:41 <Zakim> -Redland
15:14:42 <danbri>  rrsagent, please make logs public
15:15:02 <danbri>  rrsagent, please make log public
15:15:05 <David_Wood> David_Wood has left #swbp
15:15:08 <danbri> rrsagent, please make log public
15:15:16 <danbri> rrsagent, please make log world-access
15:15:38 <danbri> i think 'bye' is the way to do it, if we're finish logging stuff
15:15:46 <Ralph> Alistair, as soon as we dismiss RRSAgent from the channel he will dump the actions
15:15:53 <aliman> thanks ralph
15:16:10 <Zakim> -Alistair
15:16:16 <aliman> bye all
15:16:18 <danbri> ralph, i have this vague memory of having told rrsagent something other than 'bye' (maybe 'part', 'quit'?) where it left immediately without summarising...
15:17:28 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items:
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph link the tutorial page from the home page [1]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T14-11-39
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ralph & guus to set up straw poll as web form for location of next F2F [2]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T14-24-22
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: TomA to add links from last telecon to tutorials page [3]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T14-35-29
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alan to respond to guus' document on qualified cardinality constraints [4]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T14-39-17
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: TomA get MINDLAB to write description of urchin for APDTF weblog [5]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T15-07-23
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to link ADTF blog from WG page [6]
15:17:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/05-swbp-irc#T15-12-58