18:58:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
18:58:50 <Norm> zakim, this will be tag
18:58:50 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see TAG_Weekly()2:30PM scheduled to start 28 minutes ago
19:00:52 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()2:30PM has now started
19:00:59 <Zakim> +Norm
19:01:02 <DanC> I get 404 @ http://www.w3.org/2004/07/19-tag-summary.html
19:01:17 <Chris> Dan - yes you do. Its not comitted yet
19:01:18 <Chris> sorry
19:01:32 <Chris> so we can't approve the minutes this week
19:01:56 <Chris> nope, it will become true shortly after the call
19:02:10 <Chris> tried to get it done before the call, gothalf way through
19:02:13 <Zakim> +DanC
19:02:30 <Chris> zakim, call chris-617
19:02:30 <Zakim> ok, Chris; the call is being made
19:02:31 <Zakim> +Chris
19:05:25 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:05:44 <Norm> zakim, [Microsoft is PaulC
19:05:44 <Zakim> +PaulC; got it
19:05:58 <Norm> zakim, who's on the phone?
19:05:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, DanC, Chris, PaulC
19:06:01 <PaulCotton> PaulCotton has joined #tagmem
19:06:16 <Norm> zakim, PaulC is PaulCotton
19:06:16 <Zakim> +PaulCotton; got it
19:09:29 <DanC> Regrets: TimBL, SW, IJ
19:09:37 <DanC> Zakim, list attendees
19:09:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Norm, DanC, Chris, [Microsoft], PaulCotton
19:09:47 <DanC> wondering about Roy
19:10:06 <DanC> review of 19July minutes postponed until they become available
19:10:09 <DanC> agenda seems OK
19:10:29 <DanC> next week: NW regrets. PC regrets.
19:11:21 <DanC> we don't expect SW is available 2 Aug
19:12:28 <DanC> RESOLVED: to cancel 2 Aug telcon. next meeting: ftf 9-11 Aug
19:12:43 <Norm> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/08/09-11-tag.html
19:12:47 <DanC> --- Ottawa meeting update
19:13:07 <Zakim> +Roy
19:13:56 <DanC> NW: toward having a good meeting in Basel, "Our goal for this face-to-face is to leave with a technically complete second Last Call working draft."
19:14:25 <DanC> ... aiming for publication [n]th of [month?] last call for about a month.
19:14:31 <Norm> one month
19:14:49 <DanC> ChrisL: have we started negotiating with peer groups about LC schedule?
19:14:54 <DanC> NW: no; haven't started
19:15:33 <DanC> PC notes I18N WG's recent inquiry about LC schedules
19:16:01 <DanC> ACTION NW: respond to I18N's inquiry about LC schedules, noting TAG's evolving plans
19:16:33 <DanC> PC: we're hoping to be able to edit the webarch doc during the meeting
19:17:28 <DanC> NW reviews daily schedule in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/08/09-11-tag.html
19:18:40 <DanC> NW: we're considering inviting DaveO to participate by phone...
19:18:58 <DanC> PC: I was in contact with DaveO; he's considering it among various obligations
19:19:12 <DanC> ... monday might fit his schedule better
19:19:29 <DanC> NW: I'm open to monday if others are
19:19:46 <DanC> DC: likewise
19:19:55 <DanC> NW: I'll follow up.
19:20:24 <DanC> PC: I expect DaveO to reply to your earlier message
19:21:47 <DanC> PC asked about possibility of remote participation by IJ. DanC was thinking we encouraged him to focus on other things.
19:22:24 <DanC> thanks Paul and NW for preparing the agenda.
19:22:53 <DanC> ===== Action Item List
19:23:24 <DanC> Action NW: 2004/07/12: Write XMLChunk-44 as a finding. continues
19:23:37 <Norm> ack danc
19:23:37 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to speak to  XML Schema action
19:23:54 <DanC> Action TBL/RF: 2004/05/13 Write up a summary position to close httpRange-14, text for document (need to reschedule httpRange-14 when TBL available-single issue telcon? guest?). CONTINUES.
19:24:28 <Zakim> -PaulCotton
19:24:42 <DanC> DanC: I asked the XML Schema WG for telcon time; haven't heard back yet...
19:24:51 <DanC> PaulC: shall I call the chair?
19:25:09 <DanC> PaulC is excused to call the XML Schema WG chair for a few minutes...
19:25:23 <DanC> ----- Web Architecture Document Last Call
19:25:56 <DanC> NW: let's continue sorting into OBE, LC-critical, open
19:26:13 <Roy> Roy has joined #tagmem
19:26:44 <DanC> -- nottingham1: Second bullet doesn't make sense 1.2.1. Orthogonal Specifications
19:26:55 <DanC> NW: doesn't look OBE
19:27:07 <DanC> ... relevant text is still there, though moved
19:27:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:27:52 <Chris> I agree thatperformance is the reason in practice (parsing all content to look for headers)
19:28:14 <DanC> PaulC reached Ezell, who has now seen the request and intends to answer presently, after consulting some XML Schema WG members.
19:28:35 <DanC> NW: I'd like to be available Thu, but I see that I'm not. so I still prefer Fri.
19:29:16 <Norm> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/issues.html?view=wg&closed=1&expert=1&editorial=1&clarification=1&stateAgreed=1&stateDeclined=1&stateSubsumed=1
19:29:24 <Norm> http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#orthogonal-specs
19:29:42 <Norm> perhaps
19:30:17 <DanC> CL: suggest open. webarch makes a good point here.
19:31:24 <Zakim> -Roy
19:31:34 <DanC> ... commentor says "it's not deployed because of performance"; perhaps so, but it's also a problem w.r.t. architecture
19:32:03 <DanC> NW: so...  nottingham1 open?
19:32:13 <DanC> NW: so...  nottingham1 open.
19:32:25 <Roy> oops, was trying to say it was not a bad idea -- there is a lot more history involved
19:32:43 <DanC> roy, is that re nottingham1?
19:32:47 <Roy> yes
19:32:59 <Norm> You've fallen off the phone, will you be able to come back, Roy?
19:33:01 <DanC> do you want the TAG to discuss nottingham1 further?
19:33:19 <Roy> later
19:33:23 <DanC> we can stick it in LC-critical for now if you like.
19:33:35 <DanC> i.e. schedule it for discussion later
19:33:38 <Chris> we are saying that even if perfrmance was great, its still a level-breaking architecture problem
19:33:39 <Roy> yes
19:33:57 <DanC> ok, nottingham1 is LC-critical
19:34:33 <Zakim> +Roy
19:34:36 <DanC> -- klyne7 Use other schema than mailto as example
19:35:25 <DanC> ACTION NW: take klyne7 as editorial.
19:35:46 <DanC> -- klyne9: Add stronger language on not permitting unregistered URI schemes
19:36:50 <DanC> CL: yeah... "is discouraged" isn't clear enough. "should not"
19:37:03 <DanC> ACTION NW: treat klyne9 as editorial
19:37:08 <DanC> PC: yeah, that text is still ther.
19:37:13 <DanC> s/ther/there/
19:37:39 <DanC> -- klyne12: Proposal to drop paragraph on inconsistent frag ids
19:38:14 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#fragid
19:38:26 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#media-type-fragid
19:38:43 <DanC> NW: odd; greek letters are still in 3.3.1. CL: yes, see proposed text from my action. NW: good!
19:39:57 <DanC> NW: we've re-written this; it's now in 3.3.2
19:40:11 <DanC> (CL, you're welcome to write him individually)
19:40:26 <DanC> NW: klyne9 is OBE.
19:40:43 <Chris> yeah okay
19:41:10 <DanC> NW: klyne12 is OBE. [rather than klyne9]
19:41:40 <DanC> -- klyne17: Worth pointing out value of RDF descriptions depends on URI persistence?
19:41:56 <DanC> CL: commentor not sure or something... NW: open, at least; we've re-written some.
19:42:29 <DanC> NW: klyne17 open.
19:42:43 <DanC> -- klyne20: Say something about relationship between Hypertext Web and Semantic Web?
19:43:23 <DanC> NW: Ian 8Jun rev seems to deal with this. DC: yes, 4.6.
19:43:29 <DanC> NW: klyne20 OBE.
19:44:18 <DanC> -- klyne21: Add statement about scalability concerns
19:44:25 <DanC> CL: fair point; hmm... I have an action
19:44:42 <DanC> NW: klyne21 is LC-critical, to review CL's action
19:45:02 <DanC> ACTION CL: Draft text to explain that there's a tradeoff in this situation. continues from 14 May 2004
19:45:23 <DanC> -- klyne25 klyne25: Add reference to RFC3117, section 5.1?
19:46:07 <DanC> "On the Design of Application Protocols" http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3117.txt
19:46:31 <DanC> sec 5.1 Framing and Encoding
19:47:03 <DanC> DC: I'm interested to look at it
19:47:15 <DanC> NW: klyne25 LC-critical.
19:47:32 <DanC> ACTION DanC: report on study of RFC3117, section 5.1
19:48:06 <DanC> PC: note BXXP is in the same design space as SOAP... CL: yes, there are probably lots of things written about "Why we did X with XML".
19:48:18 <Chris> The pain of recreating this social infrastructure
19:48:18 <Chris>    far outweighs any benefits of devising a new representation.  So, if
19:48:18 <Chris>    the "make" option is too expensive, is there something else we can
19:48:18 <Chris>    "buy" besides XML? Well, there's ASN.1/BER (just kidding).
19:48:36 <DanC> -- manola17: "Agent" that includes "people" source of confusion
19:48:42 <DanC> DC: I think this is OBE
19:48:55 <DanC> NW: manola17 is OBE.
19:49:17 <DanC> -- manola27: Provide examples of mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage
19:49:45 <DanC> CL: yes, fair point... e.g. "we assume HTTP" in a format spec would be bad.
19:50:15 <DanC> NW:  manola27 is LC-critical
19:50:25 <DanC> ACTION CL: draft example ala manola27: Provide examples of mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage
19:50:51 <DanC> -- i18nwg5: Discussion of content-type header hint
19:51:04 <DanC> PC: looks like nottingham1
19:51:36 <DanC> DC/scribe: it's LC-critical.
19:51:55 <DanC> NW: i18nwg5 is LC-critical, like nottingham1
19:52:47 <DanC> -- i18nwg8
19:52:55 <DanC> PC: looks worth discussion. CL: yup
19:53:14 <DanC> RF: Ian's dealt with this, yes?
19:53:45 <DanC> PC: yes, but let's look again.
19:53:51 <DanC> NW: yes, let's look again
19:54:00 <DanC> NW: i18nwg8 is LC-critical
19:54:14 <DanC> -- i18nwg16: Good practice on URI opacity impossible to follow for humans.
19:55:01 <Norm> zakim, who's talking?
19:55:11 <Zakim> Norm, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Norm (9%), Roy (9%)
19:55:19 <DanC> NW: we've changed to "SHOULD NOT"... OBE?
19:55:22 <DanC> DC: either way...
19:55:29 <DanC> NW: i18nwg16 is OBE
19:55:45 <DanC> -- i18nwg19: text/foo+xml considered useless?
19:56:00 <DanC> CL notes recent Internet Draft relevant to this.
19:56:07 <DanC> ... deprecates this.
19:56:41 <Chris> rfc3023 revision:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Jul/0016.html
19:56:42 <DanC> DC: worth reflecting in webarch? NW: I think we do already. OBE.
19:56:50 <DanC> NW: i18nwg19 is OBE
19:56:51 <Chris> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-00.txt
19:57:17 <Chris> Major differences from [RFC3023] are deprecation of text/xml and
19:57:17 <Chris>    text/xml-external-parsed-entity, the addition of XPointer and XML
19:57:17 <Chris>    Base as fragment identifiers and base URIs, respectively.
19:57:22 <DanC> -- i18nwg20
19:57:49 <DanC> NW: hmm... same slug as 19...
19:58:45 <DanC> CL: I can see how readers could come to wrong conclusions...
19:58:58 <DanC> ACTION CL: propose text based on i18nwg20
19:59:06 <DanC> NW: i18nwg20 is LC-critical
19:59:26 <DanC> -- rosenberg3: Reuse appropriate URI schemes (and protocols)
20:00:21 <DanC> "On the use of HTTP as a Substrate" http://rfc.net/rfc3205.html
20:00:37 <DanC> NW: we have an issue on that...
20:00:49 <Roy> /me I'll check the status of 3205 at next week's IETF
20:00:59 <Chris> http://rfc.net/rfc3205.html
20:01:08 <Chris> Says its a BCP
20:01:26 <DanC> DC: ah; IJ did this.
20:01:40 <DanC> NW: rosenberg3 is OBE
20:02:19 <Chris> http://rfc.net/rfc3688.html
20:03:44 <DanC> ACTION NW: incorporate reference to RFC 3688 per rosenberg
20:04:04 <DanC> NW: and perhaps bump httpSubstrate up in priority for ftf discussion
20:04:27 <Chris> If the registrant wishes to
20:04:27 <Chris>    have a URI assigned, then a URN of the form
20:04:27 <Chris>       urn:ietf:params:xml:<class>:<id>
20:04:27 <Chris>    will be assigned where <class> is the type of the document being
20:04:27 <Chris>    registered (see below).  <id> is a unique id generated by the IANA
20:04:28 <Chris>    based on any means the IANA deems necessary to maintain uniqueness
20:04:30 <Chris>    and persistence.
20:04:47 <DanC> -- rosenberg5: Proposed reference to IANA registry for namespaces and RFC 3688
20:05:26 <DanC> NW: rosenberg5 is LC-critical. [cf action above]
20:06:14 <Roy> Roy has left #tagmem
20:06:17 <DanC> --------- TRIAGE DONE! -------------
20:06:51 <DanC> -- schema12: [3.6.1] [3.6.1] Good practice: Available representation. Too preferential to dereferencable URIs
20:07:28 <DanC> DC: note telcon negotiations in progress.
20:11:10 <DanC> ADJOURN.
20:11:17 <Zakim> -DanC
20:11:36 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:11:37 <Zakim> -Chris
20:11:38 <Zakim> -Norm
20:11:39 <Zakim> -Roy
20:11:40 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()2:30PM has ended
20:11:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Norm, DanC, Chris, [Microsoft], PaulCotton, Roy
20:12:14 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
20:13:07 <DanC> Chair: NormW
20:13:10 <DanC> Scribe: DanC
20:13:15 <DanC> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/07/26-tag.html
20:13:19 <DanC> Meeting: TAG
20:13:44 <DanC> Regrets: IJ, SW, TimBL
20:15:05 <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
20:15:05 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T20-15-05
20:16:26 <DanC> bummer... forgot to use Topic: so the gizmo doesn't build a TOC
20:23:18 <Norm> Uhm, I didn't know about topic. Sorry.
20:30:18 <DanC> RRSAgent, bye
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NW to respond to I18N's inquiry about LC schedules, noting TAG's evolving plans [1]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-16-01
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NW to take klyne7 as editorial. [2]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-35-25
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NW to treat klyne9 as editorial [3]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-37-03
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CL to Draft text to explain that there's a tradeoff in this situation. continues from 14 May 2004 [4]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-45-02
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to report on study of RFC3117, section 5.1 [5]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-47-32
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CL to draft example ala manola27: Provide examples of mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage [6]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-50-25
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CL to propose text based on i18nwg20 [7]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-58-58
20:30:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NW to incorporate reference to RFC 3688 per rosenberg [8]
20:30:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T20-03-44