17:59:01 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:59:10 Meeting: SWBPD WG 17:59:14 Chair: David Wood 17:59:24 prototypo has joined #swbp 17:59:36 +Ralph 17:59:39 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0077.html 17:59:44 +??P6 17:59:55 Zakim, ??p6 is bwm 17:59:55 +bwm; got it 18:00:00 +Tom_Adams 18:00:20 ALR has joined #swbp 18:00:41 Previous: 2004-07-08 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0067.html 18:00:48 + +1.617.253.aaaa 18:01:06 zakim, aaaa is Ben_Adida 18:01:08 +Ben_Adida; got it 18:01:08 Natasha has joined #swbp 18:01:21 I'll be a few minutes late -- sorry 18:01:30 got stuck in another meeting 18:01:40 Scribe: Tom 18:01:40 ben has joined #swbp 18:01:52 Regrets: Guus, Aldo, Libby, Jacco 18:02:11 +Evan_Wallace 18:02:15 +DanBri 18:02:19 Regrets: 18:02:19 * Aldo Gangemi 18:02:20 * Guus Schreiber 18:02:20 * Libby Miller 18:02:20 * J.R. (Jacco) van Ossenbruggen 18:02:20 * Alistair Miles 18:02:22 * Jos de Roo 18:02:24 * Gary Ng 18:02:38 + +44.114.255.aabb 18:02:48 zakim, aabb is Alan_Rector 18:02:48 +Alan_Rector; got it 18:04:15 zakim, who is here? 18:04:15 On the phone I see David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Tom_Adams, Ben_Adida, Evan_Wallace, DanBri, Alan_Rector 18:04:17 On IRC I see ben, Natasha, ALR, David_Wood, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomAdams, bwm, dlm, danbri_dna, RalphS 18:04:53 rrsagent, pointer? 18:04:53 See http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-04-53 18:05:20 i will join the call in 5 minutes. - deborah 18:05:25 rrsagent, please make logs world-visible 18:05:30 +Jeremy 18:05:48 jjc has joined #swbp 18:06:34 zakim, take up agendum 1 18:06:34 agendum 1. "Administrivia" taken up [from RalphS] 18:06:41 zakim, who's on the call? 18:06:41 On the phone I see David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Tom_Adams, Ben_Adida, Evan_Wallace, DanBri, Alan_Rector, Jeremy (muted) 18:06:46 Meeting commences, 2.06 pm 18:06:54 +??P12 18:07:03 zakim, ??p12 is Natasha 18:07:03 +Natasha; got it 18:07:09 Natasha has joined #swbp 18:07:14 Zakim, Jeremy is jjc 18:07:14 +jjc; got it 18:07:40 Attendees: David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Tom_Adams, Ben_Adida, Evan_Wallace, DanBri, Alan_Rector, Jeremy, Natasha 18:08:24 David mentions alternating call times, preference asked from groups? 18:08:43 +??P13 18:08:59 Deborah joined the telecon too 18:09:07 RalphS, Not enough support as yet. 18:09:14 zakim, ??p13 is Deb 18:09:14 +Deb; got it 18:09:45 Discussion continued on call times. European members may have a hard time making the later time. 18:10:10 Attendees: David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Tom_Adams, Ben_Adida, Evan_Wallace, DanBri, Alan_Rector, Jeremy, Natasha, Deborah 18:10:17 +??P14 18:10:19 David_Wood, Proposes keeping schedule as is. 18:10:46 danbri_dna, Tom Adams is scribing. He likes pointers :) 18:11:06 zakim, ??p14 is Mike_Uschold 18:11:06 +Mike_Uschold; got it 18:11:11 q+ 18:11:22 Mike Uschold also attending. 18:11:42 q- 18:11:49 action: Ralph do an analysis of which WG participants have been able to attend at which meeting time 18:12:16 Next meeting, earlier time, 2 weeks from now. 18:12:52 1400 Z 18:13:24 Proposal next meeting, 5 August, 1400 UTC, Kevin seconded 18:13:31 JJC: regrets for August 19 18:13:42 no regrets Aug 5 18:13:50 dlm regrets for august 5 18:13:52 danja has joined #swbp 18:14:17 Agendum 1, completed, David Wood is new co-chair 18:14:36 zakim, who is speaking? 18:14:47 zakim, who is barking? 18:14:47 I don't understand your question, danbri_dna. 18:14:48 TomAdams, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Evan_Wallace (4%), David_Wood (14%), Ralph (68%), Tom_Adams (8%), Alan_Rector (78%), Ben_Adida (31%) 18:16:09 David Wood proposes that F2F may be held at Tucana's office. 18:16:16 Who was that from Stanford? 18:16:30 Deb 18:16:40 Europeans prefer an east coast F2F 18:16:52 Deb from Stanford may be able to host. 18:17:01 Alan: [US] East Coast preferred by Europeans 18:17:09 (I would like Stanford, prefer Japan) 18:17:46 Tom Adams may also need to send SSH2 keys to Ralph 18:17:59 action: Tom Adams to send SSH 2 key to Ralph 18:18:54 Ralph added Tom Adams to mailing list. 18:19:41 BWM: re DIWG action -- Guus was going to think about whether what DIWG was proposing was the right approach 18:19:50 Alt. ontologies for units left open 18:20:02 XML schema datatypes done 18:20:18 VM TF description still open 18:20:45 Brian: WNET TF document complete 18:21:23 CVS access still waiting for SSH keys 18:22:37 RalphS, DIWG is going to keep working on URIs for units and MIME types. 18:23:02 David_Wood, Not the job of the WG to propose actual ontologies, solicits comments from group. 18:23:40 RalphS, Points to links suggestion coordination. How much can the SWBP&D WG provide? 18:23:46 q+ to say that there was discussion of whether there was interest from ont guidelines group 18:24:03 zakim, mute me 18:24:03 Tom_Adams should now be muted 18:24:54 David, Suggests list of ontologies for purposes, and their suggested use. 18:25:21 q- 18:25:29 Ontology best practices task force may be interested in this issue ??? 18:25:51 MIkeU has joined #swbp 18:26:35 March F2F discusses a task item on units 18:28:04 Consensus seems to be that group needs to take this on. 18:28:55 MIkeU, Can someone provide a link? 18:29:54 action: Deb provide a link to Gruber (sp) ontology 18:30:25 I will take an action item to provide a link to the ontolingua units and measures ontology 18:30:28 by tom gruber 18:30:56 action 3 = Deb to provide a link to the ontolingua units and measures ontology by tom gruber 18:31:07 Alan: there's an extremely good SI Web site with units, etc. 18:31:37 The SWEET ontology is at http://sweet.jpl.nasa.gov/ontology/units.owl 18:31:44 googled, found http://www.scadaonweb.com/publications/ontologies_v2/ontologies_list.html wondered if related. 18:32:00 eg. seUnitOntology in OWL : http://www.scadaonweb.com/publications/ontologies_v2/siUnitOntology.owl 18:33:00 http://www.scadaonweb.com/publications/ontologies_v2/quantityOntology.owl provides SI units 18:33:44 David asks for links to be recorded in IRC, left in current state, WG will need to return to this 18:33:59 URL for SI Units: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/ 18:33:59 zakim, unmute me 18:33:59 Tom_Adams should no longer be muted 18:34:29 action: David Wood, get back to Rhys Lewis that SWBP&D WG has interest and will get back to him when we know more. 18:34:45 zakim, move to next agendum 18:34:45 agendum 2. "Action Item Review" taken up [from RalphS] 18:34:53 close this agendum 18:35:03 David & Palhp congratulates contributors to working drafts 18:35:04 zakim, move to next agendum 18:35:04 agendum 3. "DIWG; URIs for units and MIME Types" taken up [from RalphS] 18:35:08 close this agendum 18:35:10 zakim, move to next agendum 18:35:10 agendum 4. "Publications" taken up [from RalphS] 18:36:47 q+ to ask about publicising the new drafts 18:37:58 David_Wood, Comments on using W3C phrases and terms in working documents. 18:38:36 RalphS, This is a grey area. 18:39:49 RalphS, URIs starting with www.w3.org/TR are expected to be Tech Reports, those that appear in WG area are essentially camera ready. 18:40:13 RalphS, Need to be careful to call documents in WG area editor drafts. 18:40:57 RalphS, Happy to help editors on process. 18:41:51 Ralhp: Last teleconference approved drafts subject to minor corrections. 18:43:08 David_Wood, Move onto Deb's question on what is coming in the pipeline. 18:43:14 bwm, you wanted to ask about publicising the new drafts 18:43:42 Brian: WHo much publicity have we given to new draft, asking for comments. 18:43:55 q- 18:43:58 RalphS, Items on W3C homepage 18:44:17 Zakim, unmute jjc 18:44:17 jjc was not muted, jjc 18:44:36 Ralph proposes that editors take on marketing of drafts 18:45:10 Discussion continues on potential lists 18:45:49 Brian: Proposes that we allow 24 hours for postings to come into the list, then we collate. 18:46:20 Ralph proposes SW interest group 18:46:53 David_Wood, Wants to see notification sooner rather than waiting 18:47:46 action: Natasha to send note to SW interest group 18:48:02 zakim, move to next agendum 18:48:02 agendum 5. "Tutorial Page" taken up [from RalphS] 18:48:06 http://www.adams.id.au/tmp/semwebtutorial.html 18:48:27 Tom: I am creating a rough outline for comments 18:48:28 Natasha, you might want to send to both www-rdf-interest@w3.org and www-rdf-logic@w3.org (both SWIG links) 18:48:35 s/links/lists/ sorry 18:48:39 Tom: post additions directly to me or to the WG list 18:48:52 ... should we solicit general public feedback to the WG list? 18:50:03 Dan, thanks -- I was about to ask you that 18:50:37 Ralph: an alternative is to direct mail to Tom and CC: www-archive@w3.org 18:50:59 action: Tom Adams to work on tutorial page. 18:51:54 David_Wood, Tutorial page could grow to include TF actions that are related to tutorials 18:52:18 q+ to ask for time check 18:52:47 q+ to include RDF/XHTML in tutorial 18:53:30 ack jjc 18:53:31 jjc, you wanted to ask for time check 18:53:50 ack ben 18:53:50 ben, you wanted to include RDF/XHTML in tutorial 18:53:59 Tom to include RDF/XHTML in tutorial page 18:54:26 zakim, move to next agendum 18:54:26 agendum 6. "TF Updates" taken up [from RalphS] 18:54:57 Zakim, mute jjc 18:54:57 jjc should now be muted 18:55:08 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0093.html oep summary links [Deb 2004-07-22] 18:55:59 Deb: proposal from ?Tom to consider a draft on ontology mapping 18:56:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004May/0127.html 18:56:54 s/?Tom/?TomBaker 18:56:55 this is Guus's note on qualified cardinality restrictions 18:56:56 s/?Tom/?TomBaker/ 18:58:13 ??: Asks about closing axioms 18:58:57 ??: Have a set of examples in Matt's tutorial on closing axioms. 18:59:13 Deb: Is willing to contribute unpublished work on the ordering of closing slots. 18:59:14 s/??/Alan/ 18:59:58 [/me waves to Danny Ayers, 'danja', who's following us on irc] 19:00:05 zakim, move to next agendum 19:00:05 I do not see any non-closed agenda items, David_Wood 19:00:15 Topic: PORT TF review\ 19:00:54 al's proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0068.html 19:01:22 danbri_dna, Proposes that we adopt Al's plan. 19:01:40 Alistair's plan from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0068.html ? 19:01:47 Who seconded? 19:02:22 Evan seconded Dan's motion. 19:03:04 danja_ has joined #swbp 19:03:35 danbri_dna, Can you scribe that proposal please? 19:03:49 DanBri: propose to use the public-esw mailing list and report back to WG periodically 19:03:57 resolved: to adopt al's proposal and discuss detail of SKOS on public-esw-thes towards WD publication 19:04:11 Evan seconded Dan's resolution 19:04:23 Topic: WordNet TF Update 19:04:48 David_Wood, Asks for comments in Aldo's absence... 19:05:25 zakim, who is speaking? 19:05:35 TomAdams, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bwm (100%), Alan_Rector (4%), jjc (14%), Ben_Adida (60%) 19:05:38 Brian: WordNet TF did have a telecon 19:05:57 zakim mute ben 19:06:40 q+ to note the wordnet mailing list 19:06:43 Brian: noted need to address i18n, stable identifiers for word senses, ... 19:06:50 Brian: Had a telecon, I18N, stable URIs, versioning... 19:07:29 Brian: Underlying RDF structures laid out. Looking to publish a note, may not be in Summer, late Autumn. 19:07:50 I18N message will not receive a reply, has timed out. 19:08:00 Jeremy: msg to I18N has timed out 19:08:19 re Wordnet, http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/ -> ftp://ftp.cogsci.princeton.edu/pub/wordnet/2.0/README.list 19:08:22 q? 19:08:26 danbri_dna, you wanted to note the wordnet mailing list 19:08:26 ack danbri_dna 19:08:57 danbri_dna, Anyone tracking the wordnet issue may want to track mailing list 19:09:09 s/track mailing/track the wordnet mailing/ 19:09:38 action: Brian & Jeremy to join wordnet mailing list 19:09:49 sorry -- have to leave now 19:09:56 -Natasha 19:10:43 David_Wood, Makes comment that almost everyone he knows has turned WN into RDF 19:11:15 :) 19:12:35 Topic: XML Schema datatypes 19:12:39 [The mapping at http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/ is used, although I'm not happy with it] 19:12:45 Jeremy continues on XML datatypes 19:13:07 Jeremy: Attended XML schema call, wanted them to join in TF 19:13:19 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Jul/0063.html [XSCH] report on telecon [Jeremy, 2004-07-20] 19:13:40 Jeremy: User defined datatypes wanted TF to look at SCD (schema component designators) 19:14:31 Jeremy: On value space comparisons - what TF was asking overlapped with Xquery & XSL 2, felt it was important to ask someone from that area t participate in TF, and asked TF to review work before proceeding. 19:15:13 Jeremy: On procedural issues, want TF to review XML schema work first. 19:15:38 Jeremy: Functions and operators (FNO) person to be asked to join TF 19:16:14 action: Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents 19:17:08 Jeremy, can you please add that last action? 19:17:49 Jeremy: Would like other WG members to also review FNO and SCD documents 19:18:51 action: Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list 19:19:31 David_Wood, Makes comments on DAWG Xquery goings on... 19:20:15 Jeremy: If DAWG is using Xquery, then TF should be aligned 19:20:55 Topic: Vocabulary Management TF 19:21:09 action: Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model 19:21:12 zakim, unmute ben 19:21:12 Ben_Adida should no longer be muted 19:21:23 Dan: VM TF is still new, just getting going 19:21:30 Topic: HTML 19:21:53 ben, Apologies for lead time. Has not scheduled first call. 19:21:59 Ben: still getting the RDF-in-HTML TF going; working on scheduling first call 19:22:09 ben, Asks for interested members. 19:22:35 David_Wood, Would like to help 19:23:00 I'd like to help too; limited time but I have some example scenarios I'd like to mark up. 19:23:05 ben, Is no immediate soln, wants to get it going the old way 19:23:16 ben, Asks for interest 19:23:35 action: Ben to solicit interested members in RDF in XHTML TF 19:23:51 ben, Important to get peoples suggestions 19:23:52 RalphS, you wanted to ask about HTML WG coordinaton 19:24:09 I would also like to participate on this... 19:24:22 nearby: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/02/xhtml-rdf.html 19:25:04 q+ to ask if intention is to focus on this spec in particular 19:25:41 ack danbri_dna 19:25:41 danbri_dna, you wanted to ask if intention is to focus on this spec in particular 19:25:52 RalphS, "Old" TF mailing list will still be used for discussion 19:26:44 ben, Mark's proposal and other points from another proposal will be used. Doesn't want to bias discussion. HTML WG is looking towards Mark's proposal. 19:27:09 DanBri: Max Froumentin at W3C is interested in writing a parser for the Birbeck proposal, to output triples 19:27:26 David_Wood, Wants to open the discussion on getting metadata back out of XHTML documents. Has talked offline about approaching IETF. 19:27:59 David_Wood, Clarifies idea on using HTTP headers to return metadata. 19:28:23 RalphS, Resonates with work on his plate for a few years. 19:28:32 Ralph: using HTTP to get metadata for a resource has been on my plate for a long time 19:28:52 Jeremy: Isn't convinced... 19:29:17 Jeremy: Agrees that there is a problem, but may not be the right place to attack it. 19:29:43 David_Wood, Invites Jeremy to RDF/XHTML TF call. 19:29:44 aside: I don't see a live HTTP WG at IETF, http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html 19:29:53 Topic: ADTF 19:29:55 zakim, mute ben 19:29:55 Ben_Adida should now be muted 19:29:59 ben, Will schedule TF call. 19:30:09 [deferred, no representative] 19:30:29 -Alan_Rector 19:30:30 -Evan_Wallace 19:30:33 -bwm 19:30:34 -David_Wood 19:30:35 -Mike_Uschold 19:30:35 adjourned 19:30:37 -Deb 19:30:38 -jjc 19:30:39 -DanBri 19:30:40 -Ben_Adida 19:30:41 -Ralph 19:30:50 David_Wood has left #swbp 19:30:58 -Tom_Adams 19:30:59 SW_BPD()2:00PM has ended 19:31:00 Attendees were David_Wood, Ralph, bwm, Tom_Adams, +1.617.253.aaaa, Ben_Adida, Evan_Wallace, DanBri, +44.114.255.aabb, Alan_Rector, Natasha, jjc, Deb, Mike_Uschold 19:31:07 zakim, bye 19:31:07 Zakim has left #swbp 19:31:10 rrsagent, bye 19:31:10 I see 11 open action items: 19:31:10 ACTION: Ralph do an analysis of which WG participants have been able to attend at which meeting time [1] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-11-49 19:31:10 ACTION: Tom Adams to send SSH 2 key to Ralph [2] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-17-59 19:31:10 ACTION: Deb to provide a link to the ontolingua units and measures ontology by tom gruber [3] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-29-54 19:31:10 ACTION: David Wood, get back to Rhys Lewis that SWBP&D WG has interest and will get back to him when we know more. [4] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-34-29 19:31:10 ACTION: Natasha to send note to SW interest group [5] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-47-46 19:31:10 ACTION: Tom Adams to work on tutorial page. [6] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T18-50-59 19:31:10 ACTION: Brian & Jeremy to join wordnet mailing list [7] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T19-09-38 19:31:10 ACTION: Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents [8] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T19-16-14 19:31:10 ACTION: Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list [9] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T19-18-51 19:31:10 ACTION: Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model [10] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T19-21-09 19:31:10 ACTION: Ben to solicit interested members in RDF in XHTML TF [11] 19:31:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/22-swbp-irc#T19-23-35