14:31:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP
14:31:58 <Zakim> +HowardK
14:32:11 <Zakim> +Tayeb|JeffB
14:32:36 <alberto> alberto has joined #dawg
14:33:09 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
14:34:16 <Zakim> + +39.063.7.aaaa
14:34:31 <TomAdams> zakim, ??P31 is TomAdams
14:34:31 <Zakim> +TomAdams; got it
14:34:32 <Yoshio> The URI of my TriQL evaluation is http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-Yoshio/TriQLevaluation.html
14:34:41 <ericP> zakim, +39.063.7.aaaa is Alberto
14:34:41 <Zakim> +Alberto; got it
14:34:58 <ericP> zakim, who is here?
14:34:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, TomAdams, HowardK, TayebJeffB, Alberto
14:35:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see SteveH, alberto, RRSAgent, DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP
14:35:44 <Zakim> +??P35
14:35:51 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P35 is DaveB
14:35:51 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
14:35:52 <Zakim> +JosD
14:36:06 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:36:17 <Zakim> +Farrukh
14:36:52 <Zakim> +[UMD]
14:37:29 <jhendler> jhendler has joined #dawg
14:37:32 <Yoshio> who is the scribe?
14:37:40 <AndyS> I am
14:37:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.837.aabb
14:37:42 <jhendler> zakim, [umd] is jimH
14:37:42 <Zakim> +jimH; got it
14:37:51 <ericP> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0779.html
14:37:58 <AndyS> agenda item 1:
14:38:27 <DanC_jam> Zakim, list attendees
14:38:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh,
14:38:27 <AndyS> zakim who is here
14:38:30 <Zakim> ... +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC
14:38:49 <jfbaget> jfbaget has joined #dawg
14:38:58 <FarrukhNajmi> FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
14:39:06 <AndyS> Minutes approved
14:39:38 <kendall> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations
14:39:42 <AndyS> Scribe next time (6 July): SimonR
14:40:00 <kendall> -- I moved the design evals page to a web doc
14:40:10 <AndyS> Action/kendall done (remove 3.6 variant)
14:40:24 <AndyS> Item 2: F2F update
14:40:45 <AndyS> Agenda in progress
14:41:05 <AndyS> Phone set up not finalized but looking OK
14:41:57 <AndyS> F2F end
14:42:02 <ericP> Rob, can you get the phone number for us?
14:42:12 <AndyS> Item 3: requirement 3.6 optional match
14:43:07 <kendall> alberto: sure
14:43:49 <AndyS> SimonR: use case of people with people and properties
14:44:17 <DaveB> lol
14:44:23 <AndyS> Tom: current subquery mechanism not enough
14:44:31 <kendall> WE ARE ALL TUCANA, suddenly :>
14:44:32 <AndyS> Commercial need
14:45:04 <AndyS> Jim+Bjian finds needed for UDDI/service match (e.g. contract number if present)
14:45:20 <AndyS> UC For UDDI -> JimH offers after F2F
14:45:30 <alberto> same here - optional matches is very important requirement for us and our customers too
14:45:48 <AndyS> Farrukh offers ebXML registry UC
14:46:23 <AndyS> ACTION Farrukh write up  ebXML registry UC
14:46:45 <jhendler> ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case
14:46:48 <AndyS> ACTION Jimh, write  UC For UDDI (after F2F)
14:47:16 <AndyS> ACTION: Farrukh write up  ebXML registry UC
14:47:27 <AndyS> rssagent, list actions
14:48:25 <AndyS> This is one of the most common requests we get.
14:48:43 <DaveB> outer join?  I don't have a database
14:48:59 <AndyS> Simon wants req but not outer joins please
14:49:01 <kendall> +1 daveb
14:49:24 <AndyS> Simon: See Date Ch 19
14:49:46 <alberto> sometimes when a property (or graph branch) is optional the query hand-writer (user/developer) might not know how it is structured - so have some kind of '*' (wildcard) might be useful - it is never practical to spell out all the bnodes/properties for optionals
14:50:44 <TomAdams> Jim, get in touch with me if you need a hand with UDDI use case, we have a customer that is interested in this, who I can get requirements from.
14:50:50 <alberto> +1 AndyS - semi-structure data is a big application area for RDF we think
14:51:45 <alberto> s/semi-structure/semi-structured/
14:52:50 <AndyS> EricP: implementation experience in Algae2
14:53:15 <AndyS> Rob: Sceptical as to be a requirement
14:53:58 <DaveB> C.J. Date, Introduction to Database Systems, Chapter 19, Missing Information, ISBN: 0-321-19784-4 http://www.aw-bc.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0321197844,00.html
14:54:32 <AndyS> JimH: asks if it is hard
14:54:41 <ericP> RobS: Algae optional join code snipet: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0597.html
14:55:05 <alberto> S. Abiteboul "Querying Semi-Structured Data" 1997 http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/abiteboul97querying.html
14:55:32 <AndyS> Rob: unbound / nulls are a big thing
14:55:57 <jhendler> q+ to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins
14:56:48 <AndyS> BRQL does it as nested queries but can optimize to outer joins as the result is flattened
14:57:14 <AndyS> kendall - will do 
14:57:19 <kendall> andys: thx
14:58:59 <AndyS> Rob: but is it a requirement?  What about a objective?
14:59:00 <TomAdams> +1
14:59:22 <AndyS> Objective-ization: Jos, Rob
14:59:24 <TomAdams> +1 for requirement... sorry
14:59:32 <jhendler> ack jhendler
14:59:32 <Zakim> jhendler, you wanted to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins
15:00:08 <DanC_jam> ok to skip you, jim?
15:00:29 <kendall> +1 for simon to write about the *other* solutions
15:00:44 <AndyS> ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn
15:00:59 <AndyS> s/requirememtn/requirement/
15:01:43 <TomAdams> Simon, we'll head over the the bookshop and pick up a copy. I left mine in Oz.
15:01:53 <AndyS> Item 4: Streaming
15:02:11 <AndyS> Rob: Possibility against
15:02:49 <kendall> zakim, mute me
15:02:49 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:03:18 <AndyS> Rob: wording is client driven and it is a server feature
15:03:33 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
15:03:33 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:04:05 <AndyS> DanC: Web does use progressive display
15:05:09 <ericP> lots of otherwise lazy web designers use img elements wiht vsize and hsize
15:05:27 <KevinW> q+
15:05:41 <AndyS> seconded Tom
15:05:49 <AndyS> Abstain rob
15:06:15 <KevinW> is there some interaction between streaming and result limit?
15:06:19 <AndyS> RESOLVED to accept "streamability" with one abstain
15:06:27 <AndyS> Item 5: testing
15:06:38 <AndyS> Steve's action done
15:06:49 <DaveB> SteveH?
15:06:53 <AndyS> (Steve - partial regrets)
15:07:16 <SteveH> yes, i believe its done
15:07:27 <AndyS> DanC: Please Steve catch test cases as it goes
15:07:48 <AndyS> Should move to W3C web site sometime
15:07:57 <AndyS> Item 6: Design evals and poll
15:08:07 <AndyS> DaveB did action on Algae
15:08:12 <AndyS> EricP responded
15:08:47 <AndyS> Issues: subgraph results ??
15:09:00 <kendall> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations
15:09:16 <Zakim> -RobS
15:09:27 <AndyS> Kendall has consolidated - keep in F2F reading as primary copy
15:09:53 <rob> got cut off; redialiing
15:10:34 <AndyS> ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs
15:10:48 <AndyS> ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc
15:11:09 <AndyS> Howard emailed XsRQL
15:11:16 <Zakim> +RobS
15:11:55 <AndyS> ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday
15:12:11 <AndyS> ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements
15:12:33 <AndyS> DanC: No surprises at F2F => strawpoll before hand
15:12:46 <DaveB> DanC: I've answered the poll
15:12:59 <DaveB> it's at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/
15:13:15 <alberto> daveb: txs
15:13:28 <AndyS> UnAction: Pause Kendall to do a summary table
15:13:52 <AndyS> Howard: Q about F2F process
15:14:05 <kendall> zakim, mute me
15:14:05 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:14:24 <AndyS> DanC: Need more data before decision on structure
15:14:36 <JosD> q+
15:14:46 <JosD> q+
15:14:47 <kendall> andys:  have i missed an eval of brql?
15:15:17 <AndyS> DanC: If we miss the F2F we slip schedule but may be necessary
15:15:31 <AndyS> Kendall - its in the BRQL.html doc
15:15:38 <AndyS> And ref'ed in email I sent
15:16:14 <kendall> zakim, unmute me
15:16:14 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:16:16 <AndyS> Poll answers can be revised - end is currently 5 July
15:16:21 <kendall> +q to ask question about poll
15:16:31 <kendall> q+ to ask question about poll
15:16:49 <AndyS> Jos: is there code for each of the systems?
15:17:43 <AndyS> XsRQL : path language mainly impl'ed , not triple constructors
15:17:55 <kendall> q
15:17:56 <AndyS> BRQL prototype
15:18:00 <kendall> q?
15:19:19 <JosD> q-
15:19:55 <FarrukhNajmi> Is there a query language comparison matrix that we should develope?
15:20:02 <AndyS> Kendall: How can we have a rank of protocol and QL?
15:20:08 <DaveB> it's more, which one woudl you most like to start with?
15:20:26 <kendall> Farr: I think that's sorta what I'm gonna do with the table, eventually
15:20:52 <AndyS> DanC: Path is not new language from clean sheet - instead pick one and refine by an issues driven process
15:21:18 <AndyS> "Borrow" other design features
15:22:10 <AndyS> Kendall: Remove Joseki from list
15:22:20 <AndyS> DanC: Two votes - protocol and QLs
15:22:38 <AndyS> SimonR: BEEP in theory
15:23:02 <TomAdams> BEEP in prototype :)
15:23:31 <AndyS> DanC: Does Alberto want asemantics variant removed? Yes
15:24:25 <AndyS> AOB?
15:24:42 <AndyS> JimH: Public comments - who manages the process?
15:25:20 <AndyS> JimH: e.g. Graham Klyne comments
15:25:34 <AndyS> Editor responsibility at the moment
15:26:30 <alberto> RDQL++ = BRQL almost - I will post short comments about BRQL to the list later
15:26:34 <AndyS> JimH: Should be responsive - are we really listening to comments?
15:27:05 <AndyS> Jimh: Useful to manage the comments and see where there is a match
15:28:01 <DaveB> massimo's comments start http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/0010.html
15:28:39 <DanC_jam> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:28:49 <DanC_jam> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:29:02 <AndyS> ACTION: DanC, restructure poll
15:29:19 <AndyS> Meeting ends
15:29:22 <Zakim> -Natasha
15:29:22 <DaveB> bye
15:29:23 <Zakim> -JosD
15:29:24 <Zakim> -RobS
15:29:25 <Zakim> -TomAdams
15:29:26 <Zakim> -Alberto
15:29:26 <KevinW> KevinW has left #dawg
15:29:27 <Zakim> -DaveB
15:29:28 <Zakim> -DanC
15:29:29 <Zakim> -TayebJeffB
15:29:30 <Zakim> -jimH
15:29:31 <Zakim> -HowardK
15:29:34 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:29:35 <Zakim> -Kevin
15:29:36 <TomAdams> bye
15:29:37 <Zakim> -Yoshio
15:29:40 <TomAdams> TomAdams has left #dawg
15:29:46 <Zakim> -Farrukh
15:29:55 <Yoshio> bye
15:29:57 <FarrukhNajmi> FarrukhNajmi has left #dawg
15:30:03 <Yoshio> Yoshio has left #dawg
15:33:40 <ericP> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/Optional2-alg.sh?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
15:33:42 <Zakim> -DavidWood
15:38:27 <AndyS> rssagent, list actions
15:38:46 <AndyS> rssagent, show actions
15:40:00 <AndyS> rssagent, show action items
15:40:16 <ericP> rrssagent?
15:40:24 <AndyS> rrsagent, show action items
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case [1]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-46-45
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Farrukh write up  ebXML registry UC [2]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-47-16
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn [3]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-00-44
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs [4]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-34
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc [5]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-48
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday [6]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-11-55
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements [7]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-12-11
15:40:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC, restructure poll [8]
15:40:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-29-02
15:57:47 <SteveH> SteveH has left #dawg
15:58:01 <AndyS> http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/BRQL/
16:06:07 <AndyS> http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/jena/rdfcompare.html
16:07:26 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:12:34 <Zakim> -EricP
16:12:35 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:12:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh, +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC
19:00:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg