IRC log of dawg on 2004-06-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:57 [RRSAgent]
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14:31:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP
14:31:58 [Zakim]
+HowardK
14:32:11 [Zakim]
+Tayeb|JeffB
14:32:36 [alberto]
alberto has joined #dawg
14:33:09 [SteveH]
SteveH has joined #dawg
14:34:16 [Zakim]
+ +39.063.7.aaaa
14:34:31 [TomAdams]
zakim, ??P31 is TomAdams
14:34:31 [Zakim]
+TomAdams; got it
14:34:32 [Yoshio]
The URI of my TriQL evaluation is http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-Yoshio/TriQLevaluation.html
14:34:41 [ericP]
zakim, +39.063.7.aaaa is Alberto
14:34:41 [Zakim]
+Alberto; got it
14:34:58 [ericP]
zakim, who is here?
14:34:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, TomAdams, HowardK, TayebJeffB, Alberto
14:35:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see SteveH, alberto, RRSAgent, DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP
14:35:44 [Zakim]
+??P35
14:35:51 [DaveB]
Zakim, ??P35 is DaveB
14:35:51 [Zakim]
+DaveB; got it
14:35:52 [Zakim]
+JosD
14:36:06 [JosD]
JosD has joined #dawg
14:36:17 [Zakim]
+Farrukh
14:36:52 [Zakim]
+[UMD]
14:37:29 [jhendler]
jhendler has joined #dawg
14:37:32 [Yoshio]
who is the scribe?
14:37:40 [AndyS]
I am
14:37:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.837.aabb
14:37:42 [jhendler]
zakim, [umd] is jimH
14:37:42 [Zakim]
+jimH; got it
14:37:51 [ericP]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0779.html
14:37:58 [AndyS]
agenda item 1:
14:38:27 [DanC_jam]
Zakim, list attendees
14:38:27 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh,
14:38:27 [AndyS]
zakim who is here
14:38:30 [Zakim]
... +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC
14:38:49 [jfbaget]
jfbaget has joined #dawg
14:38:58 [FarrukhNajmi]
FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg
14:39:06 [AndyS]
Minutes approved
14:39:38 [kendall]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations
14:39:42 [AndyS]
Scribe next time (6 July): SimonR
14:40:00 [kendall]
-- I moved the design evals page to a web doc
14:40:10 [AndyS]
Action/kendall done (remove 3.6 variant)
14:40:24 [AndyS]
Item 2: F2F update
14:40:45 [AndyS]
Agenda in progress
14:41:05 [AndyS]
Phone set up not finalized but looking OK
14:41:57 [AndyS]
F2F end
14:42:02 [ericP]
Rob, can you get the phone number for us?
14:42:12 [AndyS]
Item 3: requirement 3.6 optional match
14:43:07 [kendall]
alberto: sure
14:43:49 [AndyS]
SimonR: use case of people with people and properties
14:44:17 [DaveB]
lol
14:44:23 [AndyS]
Tom: current subquery mechanism not enough
14:44:31 [kendall]
WE ARE ALL TUCANA, suddenly :>
14:44:32 [AndyS]
Commercial need
14:45:04 [AndyS]
Jim+Bjian finds needed for UDDI/service match (e.g. contract number if present)
14:45:20 [AndyS]
UC For UDDI -> JimH offers after F2F
14:45:30 [alberto]
same here - optional matches is very important requirement for us and our customers too
14:45:48 [AndyS]
Farrukh offers ebXML registry UC
14:46:23 [AndyS]
ACTION Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC
14:46:45 [jhendler]
ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case
14:46:48 [AndyS]
ACTION Jimh, write UC For UDDI (after F2F)
14:47:16 [AndyS]
ACTION: Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC
14:47:27 [AndyS]
rssagent, list actions
14:48:25 [AndyS]
This is one of the most common requests we get.
14:48:43 [DaveB]
outer join? I don't have a database
14:48:59 [AndyS]
Simon wants req but not outer joins please
14:49:01 [kendall]
+1 daveb
14:49:24 [AndyS]
Simon: See Date Ch 19
14:49:46 [alberto]
sometimes when a property (or graph branch) is optional the query hand-writer (user/developer) might not know how it is structured - so have some kind of '*' (wildcard) might be useful - it is never practical to spell out all the bnodes/properties for optionals
14:50:44 [TomAdams]
Jim, get in touch with me if you need a hand with UDDI use case, we have a customer that is interested in this, who I can get requirements from.
14:50:50 [alberto]
+1 AndyS - semi-structure data is a big application area for RDF we think
14:51:45 [alberto]
s/semi-structure/semi-structured/
14:52:50 [AndyS]
EricP: implementation experience in Algae2
14:53:15 [AndyS]
Rob: Sceptical as to be a requirement
14:53:58 [DaveB]
C.J. Date, Introduction to Database Systems, Chapter 19, Missing Information, ISBN: 0-321-19784-4 http://www.aw-bc.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0321197844,00.html
14:54:32 [AndyS]
JimH: asks if it is hard
14:54:41 [ericP]
RobS: Algae optional join code snipet: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0597.html
14:55:05 [alberto]
S. Abiteboul "Querying Semi-Structured Data" 1997 http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/abiteboul97querying.html
14:55:32 [AndyS]
Rob: unbound / nulls are a big thing
14:55:57 [jhendler]
q+ to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins
14:56:48 [AndyS]
BRQL does it as nested queries but can optimize to outer joins as the result is flattened
14:57:14 [AndyS]
kendall - will do
14:57:19 [kendall]
andys: thx
14:58:59 [AndyS]
Rob: but is it a requirement? What about a objective?
14:59:00 [TomAdams]
+1
14:59:22 [AndyS]
Objective-ization: Jos, Rob
14:59:24 [TomAdams]
+1 for requirement... sorry
14:59:32 [jhendler]
ack jhendler
14:59:32 [Zakim]
jhendler, you wanted to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins
15:00:08 [DanC_jam]
ok to skip you, jim?
15:00:29 [kendall]
+1 for simon to write about the *other* solutions
15:00:44 [AndyS]
ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn
15:00:59 [AndyS]
s/requirememtn/requirement/
15:01:43 [TomAdams]
Simon, we'll head over the the bookshop and pick up a copy. I left mine in Oz.
15:01:53 [AndyS]
Item 4: Streaming
15:02:11 [AndyS]
Rob: Possibility against
15:02:49 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
15:02:49 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:03:18 [AndyS]
Rob: wording is client driven and it is a server feature
15:03:33 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
15:03:33 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:04:05 [AndyS]
DanC: Web does use progressive display
15:05:09 [ericP]
lots of otherwise lazy web designers use img elements wiht vsize and hsize
15:05:27 [KevinW]
q+
15:05:41 [AndyS]
seconded Tom
15:05:49 [AndyS]
Abstain rob
15:06:15 [KevinW]
is there some interaction between streaming and result limit?
15:06:19 [AndyS]
RESOLVED to accept "streamability" with one abstain
15:06:27 [AndyS]
Item 5: testing
15:06:38 [AndyS]
Steve's action done
15:06:49 [DaveB]
SteveH?
15:06:53 [AndyS]
(Steve - partial regrets)
15:07:16 [SteveH]
yes, i believe its done
15:07:27 [AndyS]
DanC: Please Steve catch test cases as it goes
15:07:48 [AndyS]
Should move to W3C web site sometime
15:07:57 [AndyS]
Item 6: Design evals and poll
15:08:07 [AndyS]
DaveB did action on Algae
15:08:12 [AndyS]
EricP responded
15:08:47 [AndyS]
Issues: subgraph results ??
15:09:00 [kendall]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations
15:09:16 [Zakim]
-RobS
15:09:27 [AndyS]
Kendall has consolidated - keep in F2F reading as primary copy
15:09:53 [rob]
got cut off; redialiing
15:10:34 [AndyS]
ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs
15:10:48 [AndyS]
ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc
15:11:09 [AndyS]
Howard emailed XsRQL
15:11:16 [Zakim]
+RobS
15:11:55 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday
15:12:11 [AndyS]
ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements
15:12:33 [AndyS]
DanC: No surprises at F2F => strawpoll before hand
15:12:46 [DaveB]
DanC: I've answered the poll
15:12:59 [DaveB]
it's at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/
15:13:15 [alberto]
daveb: txs
15:13:28 [AndyS]
UnAction: Pause Kendall to do a summary table
15:13:52 [AndyS]
Howard: Q about F2F process
15:14:05 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
15:14:05 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:14:24 [AndyS]
DanC: Need more data before decision on structure
15:14:36 [JosD]
q+
15:14:46 [JosD]
q+
15:14:47 [kendall]
andys: have i missed an eval of brql?
15:15:17 [AndyS]
DanC: If we miss the F2F we slip schedule but may be necessary
15:15:31 [AndyS]
Kendall - its in the BRQL.html doc
15:15:38 [AndyS]
And ref'ed in email I sent
15:16:14 [kendall]
zakim, unmute me
15:16:14 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:16:16 [AndyS]
Poll answers can be revised - end is currently 5 July
15:16:21 [kendall]
+q to ask question about poll
15:16:31 [kendall]
q+ to ask question about poll
15:16:49 [AndyS]
Jos: is there code for each of the systems?
15:17:43 [AndyS]
XsRQL : path language mainly impl'ed , not triple constructors
15:17:55 [kendall]
q
15:17:56 [AndyS]
BRQL prototype
15:18:00 [kendall]
q?
15:19:19 [JosD]
q-
15:19:55 [FarrukhNajmi]
Is there a query language comparison matrix that we should develope?
15:20:02 [AndyS]
Kendall: How can we have a rank of protocol and QL?
15:20:08 [DaveB]
it's more, which one woudl you most like to start with?
15:20:26 [kendall]
Farr: I think that's sorta what I'm gonna do with the table, eventually
15:20:52 [AndyS]
DanC: Path is not new language from clean sheet - instead pick one and refine by an issues driven process
15:21:18 [AndyS]
"Borrow" other design features
15:22:10 [AndyS]
Kendall: Remove Joseki from list
15:22:20 [AndyS]
DanC: Two votes - protocol and QLs
15:22:38 [AndyS]
SimonR: BEEP in theory
15:23:02 [TomAdams]
BEEP in prototype :)
15:23:31 [AndyS]
DanC: Does Alberto want asemantics variant removed? Yes
15:24:25 [AndyS]
AOB?
15:24:42 [AndyS]
JimH: Public comments - who manages the process?
15:25:20 [AndyS]
JimH: e.g. Graham Klyne comments
15:25:34 [AndyS]
Editor responsibility at the moment
15:26:30 [alberto]
RDQL++ = BRQL almost - I will post short comments about BRQL to the list later
15:26:34 [AndyS]
JimH: Should be responsive - are we really listening to comments?
15:27:05 [AndyS]
Jimh: Useful to manage the comments and see where there is a match
15:28:01 [DaveB]
massimo's comments start http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/0010.html
15:28:39 [DanC_jam]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:28:49 [DanC_jam]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:29:02 [AndyS]
ACTION: DanC, restructure poll
15:29:19 [AndyS]
Meeting ends
15:29:22 [Zakim]
-Natasha
15:29:22 [DaveB]
bye
15:29:23 [Zakim]
-JosD
15:29:24 [Zakim]
-RobS
15:29:25 [Zakim]
-TomAdams
15:29:26 [Zakim]
-Alberto
15:29:26 [KevinW]
KevinW has left #dawg
15:29:27 [Zakim]
-DaveB
15:29:28 [Zakim]
-DanC
15:29:29 [Zakim]
-TayebJeffB
15:29:30 [Zakim]
-jimH
15:29:31 [Zakim]
-HowardK
15:29:34 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
15:29:35 [Zakim]
-Kevin
15:29:36 [TomAdams]
bye
15:29:37 [Zakim]
-Yoshio
15:29:40 [TomAdams]
TomAdams has left #dawg
15:29:46 [Zakim]
-Farrukh
15:29:55 [Yoshio]
bye
15:29:57 [FarrukhNajmi]
FarrukhNajmi has left #dawg
15:30:03 [Yoshio]
Yoshio has left #dawg
15:33:40 [ericP]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/Optional2-alg.sh?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
15:33:42 [Zakim]
-DavidWood
15:38:27 [AndyS]
rssagent, list actions
15:38:46 [AndyS]
rssagent, show actions
15:40:00 [AndyS]
rssagent, show action items
15:40:16 [ericP]
rrssagent?
15:40:24 [AndyS]
rrsagent, show action items
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items:
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case [1]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-46-45
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC [2]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-47-16
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn [3]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-00-44
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs [4]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-34
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc [5]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-48
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday [6]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-11-55
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements [7]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-12-11
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanC, restructure poll [8]
15:40:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-29-02
15:57:47 [SteveH]
SteveH has left #dawg
15:58:01 [AndyS]
http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/BRQL/
16:06:07 [AndyS]
http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/jena/rdfcompare.html
16:07:26 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:12:34 [Zakim]
-EricP
16:12:35 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:12:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh, +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC
19:00:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg