IRC log of ua on 2004-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:11:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
00:12:03 [MattSEA_]
rrsagent, make log world
00:12:49 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: To make tabs focusable, you have to make them anchors.
00:15:02 [MattSEA]
jg: Concerned that people would have a false sense of accessibility if you just add keyboard equivalents.
00:15:37 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: We're saying things like menus and tab panels are basic widgets, and the only way to make them is with divs and spans. Seems totally reasonable to allow them to make them accessible.
00:16:13 [MattSEA]
claws: What other aspects are you considering?
00:16:46 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: For low vision, there are a number of things in the browser. High contrast, zoom.
00:19:16 [MattSEA]
jg: My experience with DHTML is that it doesn't enforce background color.
00:19:22 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Can you send me a sample?
00:19:33 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: We want to make DHTML accessible. It's the reality today.
00:21:43 [aaronlev]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/roadmap/
00:21:48 [aaronlev]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/html-state/
00:22:00 [aaronlev]
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/ui/accessibility/dynamic-accessibility.html
00:22:57 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Roadmap document contains what is in XHTML 1.0/1.1, and what should go into 2.0, for example.
00:23:15 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Need a way to explain the purpose of a custom widget.
00:24:13 [aaronlev]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/tabindex.asp
00:24:52 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: We've spoken about this with Opera, they don't think it's a bad idea.
00:25:05 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Opera is working on Web forms.
00:25:43 [MattSEA]
jg: Tabindex="-x" allows controls to be taken out?
00:25:46 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Yes.
00:27:10 [MattSEA]
jg: Do you have examples of these for the test suite?
00:27:35 [aaronlev]
http://www.moonset.net/aaronwork/tests/dhtml/checkbox-via-tabindex.html
00:28:21 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: This won't work in IE, since it doesn't support :before and :after.
00:28:59 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: The checkbox won't be displayed. (The control will work.)
00:29:29 [aaronlev]
Here's the bug for tabindex: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171366
00:31:58 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: When ordering a flight, for example, would be good to have a custom widget.
00:32:10 [aaronlev]
a drop down calendar picker
00:32:31 [aaronlev]
http://www.moonset.net/aaronwork/wetodo.html
00:32:50 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Looking for people to test Mozilla with Window-Eyes.
00:35:08 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Mozilla and others are working on plugin issues like inability to tab out, allow Ctrl-L, etc. to pass through to the browser, etc.
00:36:12 [MattSEA]
jg: Update from Beijing?
00:37:11 [MattSEA]
louie: Focusing on Mozilla community to enhance accessibility. IBM is helping greatly. Working on interop with Gnopernicus and GOK, fixing bugs.
00:37:42 [MattSEA]
zakim, unmute ??p3
00:37:42 [Zakim]
??P3 should no longer be muted
00:38:22 [MattSEA]
jessie: We're working on tests for Mozilla accessibility.
00:38:42 [MattSEA]
jessie: Wanted to create test scenarios to respond to user issues.
00:38:48 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute ??P3
00:38:48 [Zakim]
??P3 should now be muted
00:39:24 [MattSEA]
louie: Accessibility of Mozilla is not as good as Gnome. So working on enhancing accessibility in Mozilla to be as good as Gnome.
00:39:32 [MattSEA]
jg: Still looking for beta testers?
00:39:50 [MattSEA]
zakim, unmute ??p3
00:39:50 [Zakim]
??P3 should no longer be muted
00:39:55 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute ??P3
00:39:55 [Zakim]
??P3 should now be muted
00:40:42 [jessie]
nobody hear me
00:40:56 [MattSEA]
harvey: I heard Larry Goldberg and Mike Paciello last night. Talked about narratable menus.
00:41:12 [MattSEA]
jessie, I muted you because your line was causing a lot of noise. Would you like to speak now?
00:41:22 [jessie]
ok
00:41:32 [MattSEA]
zakim, unmute ??p3
00:41:32 [Zakim]
??P3 should no longer be muted
00:41:54 [MattSEA]
jessie: Question: any plan to make Mozilla static text description accessible?
00:42:19 [MattSEA]
jessie: warning dialog. Lots of information that is inaccessible.
00:42:29 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute ??P3
00:42:29 [Zakim]
??P3 should now be muted
00:42:45 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: 2 things in a dialog. Screen reader reads the dialog text.
00:42:47 [MattSEA]
zakim, unmute ??p3
00:42:47 [Zakim]
??P3 should no longer be muted
00:42:59 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute ??P3
00:42:59 [Zakim]
??P3 should now be muted
00:43:27 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Screen reader should have a review mode.
00:43:54 [MattSEA]
jg: Would need to get focus. Static text, since it isn't focusable, can't set the focus.
00:44:16 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Every screen reader needs to have some way to read non-focusable things. There's lots of static text everywhere.
00:44:22 [MattSEA]
zakim, ??p3 is jessie
00:44:22 [Zakim]
+jessie; got it
00:44:30 [jessie]
yes
00:44:34 [MattSEA]
jessie, to unmute yourself, you can type "zakim, unmute me"
00:44:40 [jessie]
ok
00:45:05 [jessie]
zakim,unmute me
00:45:05 [Zakim]
jessie should no longer be muted
00:45:11 [MattSEA]
jg: Is it possible to read static text in Gnome accessibility API?
00:45:14 [MattSEA]
jessie: Not sure.
00:45:21 [MattSEA]
jg: May need to talk to Peter about this.
00:45:33 [MattSEA]
susan: Doesn't Gnome have an MSAA-like API?
00:45:49 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Screen reader is exposing one thing to Windows and another to Linux.
00:46:01 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Not sure how things work under ATK.
00:46:05 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute jessie
00:46:05 [Zakim]
jessie should now be muted
00:46:53 [MattSEA]
claws: Is there a spec to look at?
00:47:05 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: at_poke?
00:47:19 [jessie]
zakim, unmute me
00:47:19 [Zakim]
jessie should no longer be muted
00:47:20 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Jessie, are things exposed as static text like they are in other programs?
00:48:23 [MattSEA]
louie: Sometimes screen readers like Gnopernicus can read info out to users because it has some checking functionality. Gnopernicus may not export this info from the dialog.
00:48:50 [MattSEA]
louie: We have someone in Sun who is working on this.
00:49:03 [MattSEA]
jessie, I have to mute you again. I can't hear enough to minute.
00:49:06 [MattSEA]
zakim, mute jessie
00:49:06 [Zakim]
jessie should now be muted
00:49:25 [jessie]
ok
00:49:46 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Not sure if Gnopernicus has a screen-review mode or movable cursor mode like other screen readers do.
00:50:43 [jessie]
no
00:51:09 [MattSEA]
jg: Next meeting: Thursdays aren't good for me. July 19 (Monday, Tuesday in Beijing)?
00:51:22 [jessie]
yes
00:51:29 [jessie]
we can
00:51:36 [MattSEA]
aaronlev: Might not be good.
00:51:52 [MattSEA]
susan & cathy: ok
00:51:54 [jessie]
OK for us
00:51:56 [MattSEA]
louie: ok
00:52:20 [MattSEA]
jg: If not 19th, then August 12th. I'll send out a couple dates.
00:53:57 [MattSEA]
jg: Next UAAG meeting July 8
00:54:13 [Zakim]
-Bingham
00:54:14 [jessie]
I have no permission to see the test suits here:http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/wai-eval
00:54:26 [jessie]
Bye
00:54:27 [Zakim]
-Rich
00:54:28 [Zakim]
-Cathy_Laws
00:54:28 [Zakim]
-??P0
00:54:29 [Zakim]
-Susan_Crayne
00:54:31 [Zakim]
-Jon
00:54:33 [Zakim]
-jessie
00:54:39 [MattSEA]
rrsagent, bye
00:54:39 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items