IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-06-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:54:36 [RRSAgent]
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19:55:30 [nabe]
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19:55:44 [nabe]
good morning
19:55:53 [rscano]
good evening (from Venice) :)
19:57:00 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
19:57:07 [Zakim]
19:57:11 [rellero]
rellero has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:20 [rellero]
19:57:24 [rscano]
19:57:52 [Zakim]
19:58:09 [bengt]
zakim, ??p0 is Bengt_Farre
19:58:09 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
19:58:29 [Becky]
Becky has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:40 [Zakim]
19:58:52 [rscano]
zakim, ??P3 is Roberto_Scano
19:58:52 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Scano; got it
19:58:53 [bengt]
zakim, I am Bengt_Farre
19:58:53 [Zakim]
ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
19:58:57 [rscano]
zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
19:58:57 [Zakim]
ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
19:58:58 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
19:58:58 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre should now be muted
19:59:01 [Zakim]
19:59:11 [Zakim]
19:59:38 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, I am Tom
19:59:38 [Zakim]
ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom_Croucher
19:59:44 [Zakim]
20:00:08 [Zakim]
20:00:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.483.aaaa
20:00:24 [rscano]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:00:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P2, Bengt_Farre (muted), Roberto_Scano, Tom_Croucher, Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.202.483.aaaa
20:00:32 [Zakim]
20:00:42 [rscano]
zakim, +1.202.483.aaaa is John_Slatin
20:00:42 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin; got it
20:00:44 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:48 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:54 [rscano]
hi Michael
20:00:58 [rscano]
hi Judy
20:01:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, I am Michael_Cooper
20:01:00 [Zakim]
ok, MichaelC, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper
20:01:14 [MichaelC]
zakim, mute me
20:01:14 [Zakim]
Michael_Cooper should now be muted
20:01:20 [rscano]
zakim mute me
20:01:24 [rscano]
zakim, mute me
20:01:24 [Zakim]
Roberto_Scano should now be muted
20:01:48 [Zakim]
20:01:52 [bcaldwell]
bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:55 [rscano]
rscano has changed the topic to: +1 617.761.6200 passcode 9224 ("WCAG")
20:01:59 [Zakim]
20:02:12 [wendy]
zakim, drop wendy
20:02:12 [Zakim]
Wendy is being disconnected
20:02:13 [Zakim]
20:02:39 [Zakim]
20:02:46 [wendy]
zakim, drop wendy
20:02:46 [Zakim]
Wendy is being disconnected
20:02:47 [Zakim]
20:02:52 [Zakim]
20:02:53 [Zakim]
20:03:11 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, ??p14 is David
20:03:11 [Zakim]
+David; got it
20:03:19 [Zakim]
20:03:22 [rscano]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:03:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P2, Bengt_Farre (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Tom_Croucher, Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, John_Slatin, Michael_Cooper (muted),
20:03:25 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David, [IBM], ??P10
20:03:28 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, [IBM] is Andi
20:03:28 [Zakim]
+Andi; got it
20:03:32 [bcaldwell]
zakim, ??P10 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:03:32 [Zakim]
+Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:03:46 [GVAN]
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20:03:53 [nabe]
Zakim, ??P2 is Takayuki
20:03:53 [Zakim]
+Takayuki; got it
20:03:54 [Zakim]
20:04:22 [Zakim]
20:04:39 [Zakim]
20:04:45 [wendy]
zakim, drop wendy
20:04:45 [Zakim]
Wendy is being disconnected
20:04:46 [Zakim]
20:04:47 [wendy]
20:04:52 [Zakim]
20:04:59 [rellero]
zakim, ??p15 is Roberto_Ellero
20:04:59 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Ellero; got it
20:05:17 [rellero]
Zakim, mute me
20:05:17 [Zakim]
sorry, rellero, I do not see a party named 'rellero'
20:05:29 [rscano]
zakim rellero is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:35 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who's on the phone
20:05:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', sh1mmer
20:05:36 [rscano]
zakim, rellero is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:36 [Zakim]
sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named 'rellero'
20:05:37 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
20:05:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Takayuki, Bengt_Farre (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Tom_Croucher, Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, John_Slatin, Michael_Cooper (muted),
20:05:39 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David, Andi, Gregg_and_Ben, JasonWhite, Sailesh_Panchang, Roberto_Ellero
20:05:40 [rellero]
Zakim, I am Roberto_Ellero
20:05:40 [Zakim]
ok, rellero, I now associate you with Roberto_Ellero
20:05:44 [Zakim]
20:05:46 [rellero]
Zakim, mute me
20:05:46 [Zakim]
Roberto_Ellero should now be muted
20:07:00 [sh1mmer]
1st agenda Item.
20:07:18 [sh1mmer]
Jason has been co-chairing as well as half-dozen other w3c group and a phd!
20:07:56 [Zakim]
20:07:59 [bengt]
logics and math is fun
20:08:26 [sh1mmer]
Jason can't continue to fullfill a full role of co-chair but will still be participating.
20:09:08 [sh1mmer]
We would like to thank him for the vast amounts of work he has contributed while continuing to do his other responsibilities.
20:09:25 [wendy]
lots of applause for jason
20:09:28 [rscano]
(clap clap) . group thanks Jason
20:09:28 [MattSEA]
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20:09:53 [Becky]
Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:10:15 [sh1mmer]
Wasn't finding time to help the group runs as smoothly and to do the guidelines. Prefer to concentrate on the technical aspects.
20:10:58 [sh1mmer]
Happy to continue as a participant and editor of the document
20:11:58 [sh1mmer]
Hopes that work on PhD can have good results to apply to accessibility and bring the work from that back.
20:12:57 [sh1mmer]
We aren't letting him escape just yet! Still plenty of good work to do.
20:13:37 [rscano]
20:14:19 [sh1mmer]
2nd agenda item.
20:14:20 [sh1mmer]
Checklists and whether they should be normative or informative.
20:14:41 [sh1mmer]
Are checklists just an interpretation or _the_ interpretation
20:17:10 [sh1mmer]
1. Do general success criteria provide enough information to determine
20:17:10 [sh1mmer]
20:17:10 [sh1mmer]
2. If not, is it possible to make them testable enough to determine
20:17:10 [sh1mmer]
20:17:10 [sh1mmer]
3. If not, should we conclude that checklists must be normative?
20:17:11 [sh1mmer]
4. How would putting checklists on the Recommendation track effect our
20:17:13 [sh1mmer]
20:17:15 [sh1mmer]
5. Can we satisfy the Requirements for WCAG 2.0 with informative checklists?
20:18:17 [rscano]
IMHO, Guidelines must be normative, checklist are like techniques...
20:19:07 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:19:18 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto_Scano (15%), Loretta_Guarino_Reid (19%), Sailesh_Panchang (4%)
20:20:24 [sh1mmer]
Important to be aware of the issues with other working groups that a normative checklist would bring.
20:20:47 [sh1mmer]
Be sensitive to considerations of their standards and possible conflicts
20:20:59 [sh1mmer]
Should be looking at creative options
20:23:47 [wendy]
20:24:19 [sh1mmer]
Open for questions about summary document
20:25:11 [sh1mmer]
John would like to hear a little bit more about the nature of the coordination between groups
20:25:32 [sh1mmer]
20:25:42 [sh1mmer]
Related to the w3c process anyway
20:26:05 [sh1mmer]
Kynn sent a lot of comment on the June 2003 draft, each of which is archieved and logged as issues.
20:27:04 [sh1mmer]
We would do something similar with the HTML working group, but we would pass on our feeling resulting from discussions. Or even just make them aware the discussions have taken place.
20:27:32 [sh1mmer]
Ask that we would want to say somethign different than what that already say
20:27:34 [BeckyG]
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20:27:45 [sh1mmer]
We take issues to PF as a primary point of contact
20:28:43 [sh1mmer]
By creating a normative document we are raising the stakes, by enforcing issues rather than suggesting them as part of the guideline.
20:28:56 [sh1mmer]
20:29:07 [MattSEA]
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20:29:32 [sh1mmer]
We have moved a lot of the specifics from the guidelines into checklists.
20:29:40 [sh1mmer]
We are trying not to fall into the same traps.
20:30:45 [sh1mmer]
In the past we tried to make the content match the browsers, rather we should suggest how it should be and expect the browsers and the AT to get to a point which matches that.
20:30:57 [wendy]
q+ to discuss "ISO"
20:31:15 [sh1mmer]
There are also group nationaly and internationally creating checklists from our guidelines
20:31:28 [sh1mmer]
concerns that the 'generic' guidelines could be misinterpreted.
20:31:43 [sh1mmer]
If you map and fail and change then all the tools become out of date
20:32:24 [sh1mmer]
Is the checklist a lot of suggestions or a constitution of conformance?
20:33:06 [bcaldwell]
20:33:33 [bcaldwell]
ack wendy
20:33:33 [Zakim]
wendy, you wanted to discuss "ISO"
20:34:08 [sh1mmer]
One piece of discussion not in the document, is the issue of seeing WCAG 2.0 as an ISO
20:34:36 [sh1mmer]
There is discussion of taking some w3c reccomendations to ISO
20:35:14 [sh1mmer]
Depending how much we rely on technology, and ISO documents need to rely on normative documents
20:35:57 [sh1mmer]
Many ISO refer to w3c documents as normative
20:35:59 [sh1mmer]
20:36:00 [rscano]
the group is ISO/TC 159/SC 4/WG 5 "Software ergonomics and human-computer dialogues", not JTC 1
20:36:09 [sh1mmer]
er.. JTC 1
20:37:29 [wendy]
roberto - yes, it was JTC1 that was discussed at the AC mtg.
20:37:56 [rscano]
yes sorry I appoint that the ISO that interest WAI are in the WG: ISO/TC 159/SC 4/WG 5 "Software ergonomics and human-computer dialogues" ;-)
20:38:01 [sh1mmer]
If the guidelines became an ISO they would refer to a version of the checklist but you couldn't change them over time
20:38:03 [MattSEA_]
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20:38:23 [bcaldwell]
ack John
20:38:48 [sh1mmer]
Explore implications of making the checklists normative
20:39:30 [sh1mmer]
Worried about unintentionally disallowing valid but novel approaches
20:40:46 [sh1mmer]
If guideline was normative would only the method we use be valid
20:40:56 [sh1mmer]
What about the issue with standardisation?
20:40:57 [sh1mmer]
20:42:25 [wendy]
q+ to ask, "what would the checklist look like?"
20:42:38 [sh1mmer]
Are the guidelines specific enough?
20:43:13 [sh1mmer]
We say you have to have a text equivelents, but don't say how you need to provide it. But I could do it with a new technique with no value.
20:43:19 [rscano]
checklist = another form for present guidelines (so why not normative?)
20:43:43 [bcaldwell]
ack Tom
20:43:45 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
20:44:27 [wendy]
if you have a number between 1 and 5, we wouldn't say you have to use "1, 2, 3, 4, or 5". people should be able to use "1.1, 2.56778" etc.
20:44:55 [wendy]
create encapsulation of what is "right" or "wrong"
20:45:25 [bcaldwell]
ack Wendy
20:45:25 [Zakim]
wendy, you wanted to ask, "what would the checklist look like?"
20:45:34 [GVAN]
20:45:57 [sh1mmer]
Part of this discussion of this is hard without prototpyes of checklists
20:46:22 [sh1mmer]
Maybe we should revisit the requirements for checklists
20:47:07 [sh1mmer]
The timeline limits the amount of things we can do, more important to get a good set of documents out than continuing to aim for a perfect document but never finish
20:47:12 [wendy]
ack gvan
20:47:31 [sh1mmer]
Gregg would like to explore wendy's idea of a checklist
20:47:41 [sh1mmer]
We need to get some prototypes done
20:48:01 [sh1mmer]
Go around the table and see where people are at?
20:48:10 [rscano]
I can try to create one like test in weekend...
20:48:43 [sh1mmer]
Not a discussion to come to a decisison but to develop ideas and thoughts
20:49:09 [sh1mmer]
HTML techniques is several atomic techniques, and then they have a test suite
20:49:48 [MattSEA]
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20:49:53 [sh1mmer]
See it really as a decision tree
20:50:23 [sh1mmer]
20:50:33 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
20:50:43 [GVAN]
20:51:22 [Becky]
Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:51:24 [sh1mmer]
decission tree and boundries could work well together
20:51:50 [wendy]
ack gvan
20:51:56 [sh1mmer]
Not being too specific was more related to UA
20:51:58 [sh1mmer]
20:52:39 [sh1mmer]
Informative would be 'visible' techniques
20:53:17 [sh1mmer]
What we are trying to specify is completely independant of the technology
20:53:30 [BeckyG]
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20:54:05 [sh1mmer]
20:54:20 [bcaldwell]
ack David
20:54:30 [sh1mmer]
We may find that the SC are used and the only technology one are those that relate to ua
20:54:43 [Becky]
Becky has joined #WAI-WCAG
20:55:41 [sh1mmer]
the relationship between the documents, the guidelines are high level and last 5-6 year,and the technology documents would be evolving
20:56:03 [sh1mmer]
would normative make them a lot less inflexible
20:58:42 [sh1mmer]
any normative documents, would have to go through review process
20:59:00 [sh1mmer]
that is anything from 30 days to 4month minimum depending on the review cycles
20:59:01 [Zakim]
20:59:15 [wendy]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike
20:59:15 [Zakim]
+Mike; got it
21:00:17 [wendy]
21:00:37 [Zakim]
21:00:37 [sh1mmer]
ack Jason
21:00:55 [wendy]
ack Jason
21:01:00 [wendy]
zakim, set timer to 1 minute
21:01:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'set timer to 1 minute', wendy
21:01:15 [sh1mmer]
valuable to view discussion on the mailing before returning to the topic
21:01:33 [Zakim]
21:01:38 [sh1mmer]
those aspects of the technology specifics that need to be implemented in software
21:01:53 [wendy]
zakim, please time each speaker at 1 minute
21:01:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please time each speaker at 1 minute', wendy
21:02:06 [wendy]
zakim, please time each speaker at 1 minutes
21:02:06 [Zakim]
ok, wendy
21:02:08 [wendy]
21:02:16 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the call?
21:02:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Takayuki, Bengt_Farre (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Tom_Croucher (muted), Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, John_Slatin, Michael_Cooper (muted),
21:02:19 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David, Andi, Gregg_and_Ben, JasonWhite, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Wendy, Matt, Mike, Kerstin_Goldsmith
21:02:21 [sh1mmer]
then the software needs to be able to rely on something not changing
21:03:06 [wendy]
q+ Takayuki, Bengt, Roberto, Tom, Becky, Judy, Katie, John, Michael, Loretta, David, Andi, Ben, Roberto_E, Matt, Mike, Kerstin
21:03:06 [sh1mmer]
problems, things are not specifically mentioned as the specification provides because there aren't any
21:03:19 [sh1mmer]
nothing normative that could be refered to
21:03:30 [Zakim]
21:03:40 [sh1mmer]
is there sufficient problem that we have to say something normative in a document
21:04:11 [wendy]
ack Takayuki
21:04:42 [wendy]
Why JTC1 instead of ISO WG ___?
21:05:04 [sh1mmer]
Not done a comparison of the various processes
21:05:34 [sh1mmer]
Governmental issue restricting WCAG adoption, which ISO didn't suffer from
21:06:16 [sh1mmer]
Already concerns regarding revisions controls and other issues
21:06:32 [sh1mmer]
JTC1 addressing some of w3c's concerns, still early stages
21:06:41 [wendy]
ack Bengt
21:06:43 [sh1mmer]
ack begnt
21:07:06 [wendy]
zakim, stop timing
21:07:06 [Zakim]
ok, wendy
21:07:25 [wendy]
at CSUN talked about Guide 71. What has happened with that?
21:07:39 [Zakim]
21:07:51 [wendy]
zakim, please time each speaker at 1 minutes
21:07:51 [Zakim]
ok, wendy
21:08:03 [wendy]
21:08:16 [sh1mmer]
ack roberto
21:08:19 [wendy]
ack Roberto
21:08:27 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
21:08:27 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre should now be muted
21:08:41 [wendy]
ack rscano
21:08:52 [rscano]
unmute me
21:09:00 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, unmute rscano
21:09:00 [Zakim]
sorry, sh1mmer, I do not see a party named 'rscano'
21:09:06 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, unmute Roberto_Scano
21:09:06 [Zakim]
Roberto_Scano should no longer be muted
21:09:10 [MattSEA]
21:09:22 [wendy]
q+ Roberto_Ellero
21:09:43 [wendy]
zakim, give roberto_scano 1 minutes
21:09:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'give roberto_scano 1 minutes', wendy
21:09:45 [Zakim]
21:10:10 [wendy]
in italy, want to create normative checklist that is similar to the guidelines, but is "lite" (?)
21:10:11 [sh1mmer]
Trying to create a normative checklist in Italy
21:10:27 [sh1mmer]
Needs to be in the local language
21:10:30 [wendy]
document should be translated into other languages and those translations need to be recognized.
21:11:11 [sh1mmer]
ack tom
21:11:12 [wendy]
jb: 2 potential avenues: 1. w3c investigating official recognition of translations 2. if path through another standards org, then translation mechanisms there.
21:11:36 [rscano] (this could be interesting for the list)
21:11:40 [wendy]
how does our checklist relate to other guidelines? e.g., UAAG?
21:12:04 [wendy]
ack Becky
21:12:18 [sh1mmer]
Thinks that non-normative
21:12:24 [sh1mmer]
because things are changing so quickly
21:12:35 [sh1mmer]
worried about falling into old technology
21:12:49 [rellero]
Zakim, unmute me
21:12:50 [Zakim]
Roberto_Ellero should no longer be muted
21:13:00 [sh1mmer]
never use just one technology and there is a lot of crossover
21:13:15 [sh1mmer]
Gregg: checklists not necessarly one technology
21:13:17 [wendy]
ack Judy
21:13:18 [sh1mmer]
ack Judy
21:13:23 [wendy]
ack Katie
21:13:33 [sh1mmer]
no strong feeling either way
21:13:45 [sh1mmer]
not seen as an issue
21:13:53 [BeckyG]
BeckyG has joined #wai-wcag
21:14:11 [wendy]
ack John
21:14:11 [sh1mmer]
ack John
21:14:31 [Zakim]
21:14:46 [sh1mmer]
Do we have a way to find a representative sample to see what they think, and how they affect their interests
21:14:47 [sh1mmer]
21:14:56 [sh1mmer]
Govt. policies, corp policies.
21:15:27 [sh1mmer]
Dialog with national bodies, almost non at not intersted in normative checklists
21:16:21 [wendy]
zakim, ??P13 is Kerstin
21:16:21 [Zakim]
+Kerstin; got it
21:16:27 [sh1mmer]
ack Michael
21:16:30 [MichaelC]
I've heard one of my concerns with normative checklists already, that otherwise valid techniques not in the checklist might be excluded. I also think we will not be successful at keeping the checklists up to date, no matter how good our intentions, because of the magnitude of the task, and this would lead to great problems in the future. We have also determined that there are many technologies in wide use on the Web for which we will not be creating te
21:17:06 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:17:19 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Cooper (28%), Roberto_Ellero (4%)
21:17:40 [wendy]
ack loretta
21:18:23 [sh1mmer]
various different reactions. normative it would shut out any tech not on our current list. and concern that authors not have suffient details for how to form output
21:18:40 [sh1mmer]
documents have a long shelf life
21:18:58 [sh1mmer]
if we don't use feature now then you will fall behind.
21:19:54 [Zakim]
21:20:08 [sh1mmer]
don't want to write techniques to AT should write them to how they should be
21:20:08 [wendy]
ack David
21:20:12 [rscano]
21:20:41 [sh1mmer]
do the checklists work from the techniques documents? or are they going to be a higher level
21:20:52 [sh1mmer]
if they are going to be technique level they can't be frozen
21:21:21 [sh1mmer]
ack andi
21:21:21 [wendy]
ack Andi
21:21:51 [sh1mmer]
think that the guideline themselves dont have enough in themselves
21:21:59 [sh1mmer]
need test suites
21:22:11 [sh1mmer]
priotise test suites
21:22:32 [sh1mmer]
needs what the minimum required is
21:22:38 [sh1mmer]
in the techniques documents
21:23:07 [sh1mmer]
techniques shouldn't be normative to change faster
21:23:16 [wendy]
we need other things, but those other things do not need to be normative
21:23:22 [sh1mmer]
guidelines normative other things not
21:23:35 [wendy]
ack ben
21:23:39 [sh1mmer]
cant have normative guidelines which aren't clear
21:23:56 [sh1mmer]
concerns about the timelines, and if we can update multiple normative docs
21:24:13 [sh1mmer]
need prototpyes before designs
21:24:16 [sh1mmer]
21:24:27 [sh1mmer]
doing the e2e mappings etc
21:24:37 [sh1mmer]
working out where the whole between and in documents is
21:24:50 [sh1mmer]
which techniques and which combinations of techniques are sufficient
21:24:51 [wendy]
ack Matt
21:25:02 [sh1mmer]
checklists shouldn't be normative
21:25:10 [sh1mmer]
21:25:28 [sh1mmer]
will cause us to be ignored after a couple of years
21:25:44 [rscano]
21:25:45 [sh1mmer]
techniques/checklists should may not even be a note and actually be a 'living' document
21:25:50 [sh1mmer]
not a versioned series
21:25:57 [wendy]
ack Mike
21:26:03 [sh1mmer]
agrees with matt
21:26:20 [sh1mmer]
techniques and checklists useful tools
21:26:25 [wendy]
ack Kerstin
21:26:28 [sh1mmer]
for illustive purposes
21:26:37 [sh1mmer]
agree with mike
21:26:38 [wendy]
agrees w/matt, mike, and andi
21:26:42 [wendy]
ack Roberto
21:26:53 [sh1mmer]
agree with Roberto scano
21:27:22 [wendy]
21:27:25 [sh1mmer]
rellero can you type that in pls?
21:27:33 [nabe]
As for normative-checklist question I have no definite opinion yet.
21:27:36 [sh1mmer]
rellero my speaker phone isn't great
21:27:43 [wendy]
ack jason
21:27:52 [sh1mmer]
zakim, stop timing
21:27:52 [Zakim]
ok, sh1mmer
21:28:09 [wendy]
q+ to say "audience"
21:28:14 [rellero]
I agree with the words of scano
21:28:14 [rellero]
21:28:14 [rellero]
I think that a standardization process could probably have major impact in a law with reference to a standard iso, even if the problem of the updating is remarkable,
21:28:14 [rellero]
21:28:14 [rellero]
However in Italy is strong the necessity of a normative and prescriptive anchorage to a clear checklist, even to avoid semplifications
21:28:21 [sh1mmer]
21:28:26 [rscano]
21:28:37 [sh1mmer]
Have to be versioned against the technology
21:28:54 [sh1mmer]
Accesible practice in relation to that technology
21:29:17 [sh1mmer]
Possibility for achiving goal
21:29:33 [sh1mmer]
ack tom
21:29:37 [wendy]
q+ gv
21:30:12 [wendy]
could we look at a fast-track process in w3c process?
21:30:31 [wendy]
ack wendy
21:30:31 [Zakim]
wendy, you wanted to say "audience"
21:30:55 [sh1mmer]
have number of options re: publishing
21:31:44 [sh1mmer]
didn't discussion audience issues
21:31:51 [sh1mmer]
test suite issues
21:32:13 [sh1mmer]
how we discuss audiences will open up how we deal with the issue
21:33:01 [sh1mmer]
What is our primary goal? authoring tool and evaluation tools have something to work from or targeting authors?
21:33:31 [wendy]
ack mike
21:33:54 [wendy]
ack gv
21:34:01 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:34:09 [sh1mmer]
re: guidelines to version of technology, could get confusing with various versions
21:34:14 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bengt_Farre (4%), Gregg_and_Ben (61%), Andi (14%), David (9%), Roberto_Ellero (5%)
21:35:20 [sh1mmer]
careful to make decision their merit rather than how they fit in with scheduels or difficulty to achieve
21:35:36 [sh1mmer]
if we don't create normative checklists and then we will be sidelined
21:35:52 [sh1mmer]
someone else will create them and peopel will use them by default
21:35:54 [MattSEA]
21:36:07 [sh1mmer]
some places the guidelines are clear enough
21:36:27 [bengt]
zakim, who is here ?
21:36:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Takayuki, Bengt_Farre, Roberto_Scano (muted), Tom_Croucher (muted), Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, John_Slatin, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David, Andi,
21:36:30 [Zakim]
... Gregg_and_Ben, JasonWhite, Roberto_Ellero, Wendy, Matt, Mike, Kerstin
21:36:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MattSEA, GVAN, bcaldwell, judy, rellero, nabe, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, rscano, Andi, wendy, sh1mmer
21:36:36 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
21:36:36 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre should now be muted
21:37:02 [sh1mmer]
really need to resolve issue by using prototypes
21:37:16 [sh1mmer]
'singing from the same hymn sheet'
21:40:46 [wendy]
feel free to contact me and/or ben if you would like to volunteer or are unsure about volunteering until you have more info. Also, suggest people team up to work on these action items together.
21:40:47 [sh1mmer]
ack Matt
21:41:12 [sh1mmer]
the idea of doing what is necessary, need to insect what is necessary with what is possible
21:43:01 [sh1mmer]
21:43:03 [sh1mmer]
21:43:55 [sh1mmer]
yay :)
21:44:16 [sh1mmer]
21:44:17 [sh1mmer]
ack tom
21:44:22 [Zakim]
21:45:56 [Zakim]
21:45:59 [Zakim]
21:46:00 [Zakim]
21:46:01 [Zakim]
21:46:02 [Zakim]
21:46:03 [Zakim]
21:46:03 [Zakim]
21:46:03 [rellero]
21:46:04 [Zakim]
21:46:05 [Zakim]
21:46:06 [Zakim]
21:46:08 [Zakim]
21:46:10 [Zakim]
21:46:12 [Zakim]
21:46:16 [Zakim]
21:46:42 [rscano]
good night to all! (and good morning to far east members :D)
21:47:15 [nabe]
good morning Roberto! I want to sleep again. :-)
21:47:36 [rscano]
21:47:41 [rscano]
rscano has left #wai-wcag
21:47:48 [MattSEA]
MattSEA has left #wai-wcag
21:47:56 [bengt]
hehe ohayo gozaimasu :)
21:48:20 [sh1mmer]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:48:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Croucher, Roberto_Ellero, Wendy
21:48:32 [nabe]
Ohayo gozaimasu to you!
21:48:48 [nabe]
good bye and good night evrtyone.
21:48:51 [bengt]
goodnight everyone
21:49:08 [wendy]
21:55:17 [Zakim]
21:59:15 [Zakim]
21:59:21 [Zakim]
21:59:22 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
21:59:23 [Zakim]
Attendees were Bengt_Farre, Roberto_Scano, Tom_Croucher, Becky_Gibson, Judy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Wendy, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David, Andi,
21:59:23 [wendy]
zakim, bye
21:59:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
21:59:25 [Zakim]
... Gregg_and_Ben, Takayuki, JasonWhite, Sailesh_Panchang, Roberto_Ellero, Matt, Mike, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Kerstin
21:59:29 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make log world
21:59:34 [wendy]
RRSAgent, bye
21:59:34 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items