IRC log of dawg on 2004-06-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:04:21 [RRSAgent]

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14:04:24 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #dawg

14:04:28 [DanC]

Zakim, this will be dawg

14:04:28 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes

14:05:29 [kendall]

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14:13:24 [kendall]

or something

14:16:20 [KevinW]

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14:16:47 [DanC]

kevin, are you all set to scribe today?

14:17:00 [KevinW]

yes.

14:17:35 [kendall]

i want a 64 bit PC

14:18:15 [kendall]

apropos of nothing here, :>

14:18:30 [DanC]

agenda + Convene, take roll, review record, agenda

14:18:36 [DanC]

agenda + 64 bit PC for kendall

14:18:42 [kendall]

:>

14:18:47 [DanC]

agenda -2

14:19:09 [kendall]

awww! maybe i have some secret fans w/ deep hardware budgets who want to see a 64 bit UC&R doc?! :>

14:19:12 [kendall]

you never know!!

14:19:35 [DanC]

stranger things have happened. W3C proceeds by a sequence of miracles.

14:19:37 [howardk]

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14:19:44 [kendall]

exactamente!

14:20:00 [kendall]

or, as my granma used to say, it can't hurt to ask

14:21:17 [DanC]

agenda + Requirements, evaluating designs (ACTIONs AndyS, BrianT, EricP)

14:21:40 [DanC]

oh crud; I still haven't done anything with swh's test foo

14:21:49 [DanC]

agenda + Test materials (ACTION SteveH)

14:21:52 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started

14:21:59 [Zakim]

+Kevin

14:22:08 [DanC]

agenda + Use Cases and Requirements document (ACTION EricP)

14:23:58 [AndyS]

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14:27:33 [Zakim]

+HowardK

14:28:33 [DaveB]

DaveB has joined #dawg

14:28:56 [SteveH]

SteveH has joined #dawg

14:29:12 [Zakim]

+??P11

14:29:24 [SteveH]

Zakim: P11 is SteveH

14:29:32 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:29:39 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:29:50 [Zakim]

+DaveB

14:29:52 [AndyS]

zakim, P12 is AndyS

14:29:52 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'

14:29:57 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P12 is AndyS

14:29:57 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:29:58 [JanneS]

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14:30:06 [Zakim]

+RobS

14:30:10 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:30:19 [rob_]

rob_ has joined #dawg

14:30:30 [JanneS]

Zakim, +??P16 is JanneS

14:30:30 [Zakim]

sorry, JanneS, I do not recognize a party named '+??P16'

14:30:46 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

14:30:53 [SteveH]

Zakim, +??P11 is SteveH

14:30:53 [Zakim]

sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named '+??P11'

14:30:55 [Zakim]

+[ASemantics]

14:31:06 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P11 is SteveH

14:31:06 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:31:13 [SteveH]

got there in the end

14:31:15 [JanneS]

Zakim, ??P16 is JanneS

14:31:15 [Zakim]

+JanneS; got it

14:31:20 [alberto]

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14:31:22 [JanneS]

me2

14:31:32 [DaveB]

whoa, lotta noise there - somebody on a train?

14:31:48 [howardk]

hunchback whales I think

14:32:07 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:32:07 [DaveB]

lol

14:32:20 [Zakim]

-DanC

14:32:28 [Zakim]

+??P18

14:32:29 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:32:49 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

14:32:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kevin, HowardK, SteveH, AndyS, EricP, DaveB, RobS, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, [ASemantics], DanC, ??P18

14:32:51 [Zakim]

On IRC I see alberto, rob_, JanneS, SteveH, DaveB, AndyS, howardk, KevinW, kendall, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, ericP

14:33:17 [Zakim]

+Farrukh

14:33:36 [DaveB]

don't see an intro archived

14:34:11 [FarrukhNajmi]

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14:34:12 [ericP]

zakim, who is speaking?

14:34:17 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

14:34:24 [Zakim]

ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: HowardK (4%), Kendall_Clark (11%)

14:34:25 [kendall]

wow, bad static. i'm calling back.

14:34:40 [Zakim]

-EricP

14:34:40 [ericP]

it's all of us, i think

14:34:57 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

14:34:57 [ericP]

rather, we were all hearing it

14:35:45 [Sebkha]

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14:36:23 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/#who

14:36:26 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:36:33 [DanC]

Zakim, agenda?

14:36:33 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

14:36:34 [Zakim]

1. Convene, take roll, review record, agenda [from DanC]

14:36:35 [Zakim]

2. Requirements, evaluating designs (ACTIONs AndyS, BrianT, EricP) [from DanC]

14:36:36 [Zakim]

3. Test materials (ACTION SteveH) [from DanC]

14:36:37 [Zakim]

4. Use Cases and Requirements document (ACTION EricP) [from DanC]

14:37:07 [DanC]

Zakim, take up agendum 1

14:37:07 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review record, agenda" taken up [from DanC]

14:37:24 [JosD]

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14:37:28 [Zakim]

+JosD

14:39:08 [AndyS]

For the agenda: maybe requirements items we have still to go?

14:39:20 [AndyS]

Also - where do we want to be for the F2F in July?

14:39:27 [kendall]

yes +1

14:39:29 [DanC]

agenda + requirements: review pending

14:40:00 [thompsonbry]

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14:40:02 [DanC]

agenda + July ftf update

14:40:07 [thompsonbry]

Sorry I'm late.

14:40:15 [kendall]

ever again?

14:40:42 [AndyS]

Actually, I meant where in the technical work we want to be by the F2F - not physcially located!

14:40:50 [DaveB]

DanC: you missed Profium

14:40:54 [Zakim]

+BryanT

14:41:17 [kendall]

v. loud typing

14:41:19 [rob_]

the f2f item might amount to no more than an action for Rob to post a web page somewhere...

14:42:26 [kendall]

Yoshio sends regrets; feeling sick.

14:42:30 [DanC]

minutes 2004-05-25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0487.html

14:42:58 [KevinW]

minutes 2004-05-25 accepted

14:43:36 [DanC]

Zakim, close this item

14:43:36 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

14:43:37 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:43:38 [Zakim]

2. Requirements, evaluating designs (ACTIONs AndyS, BrianT, EricP) [from DanC]

14:43:40 [DanC]

Zakim, take up agendum 6

14:43:40 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "July ftf update" taken up [from DanC]

14:44:04 [KevinW]

rollcall: JD, AR, KC, RS, BT, FN, SR, DB, DC, JS, SH, HK, EP, DC, AS, KW

14:45:20 [KevinW]

EP rqst headcount for july F2F.

14:45:39 [KevinW]

EP: to set up registration for july f2f

14:45:44 [thompsonbry]

Is there a URI for the current F2F schedule and details on the next f2f meeting time & location?

14:45:55 [FarrukhNajmi]

f2f is still July 15-15?

14:46:00 [kendall]

+1 hotel recs

14:46:12 [FarrukhNajmi]

It look like I will be unable to attend f2f due to unavoidable conflicts.

14:46:22 [DanC]

"14-15 July 2004 California

14:46:22 [DanC]

Network Inference to host a meeting" -- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/

14:46:47 [KevinW]

f2f will be two full days, july 14-15

14:47:03 [SimonR]

I'm definitely going to be able to attend -- I'll be travelling in the US all through July.

14:47:21 [DanC]

Zakim, close this agendum

14:47:21 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

14:47:22 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:47:23 [Zakim]

2. Requirements, evaluating designs (ACTIONs AndyS, BrianT, EricP) [from DanC]

14:47:30 [KevinW]

action: RS to set up hosting page for f2f

14:48:02 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

14:48:02 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Requirements, evaluating designs (ACTIONs AndyS, BrianT, EricP)" taken up [from DanC]

14:48:05 [rob_]

can we get an action on setting up a poll for who will be at f2f?

14:48:06 [kendall]

dan == patton -1!

14:50:00 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0489.html ACTION: writeup of joseki in response to action taken at last DAW G telcon.

14:50:08 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:50:08 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:53:27 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:53:27 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:53:48 [KevinW]

review of joseki design eval: joseki not a query lang. is a protocol. does not support graph pattern matching.

14:53:54 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:53:54 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:54:35 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:54:35 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:57:14 [kendall]

+q

15:01:50 [KevinW]

action: confusion over 4.4: KC to elaborate on 4.4

15:02:22 [kendall]

is this simon speaking?

15:02:50 [kendall]

great

15:04:07 [DanC]

simon, we discussed this at length at the ftf; as chair, I'm trying to figure out how much replay is healthy.

15:05:04 [DanC]

a certain amount is clearly healthy since, as Rob points out, 3.4 subgraph is still "pending"

15:06:01 [KevinW]

RS: says 3.4 is unclear if query has disjunctions. will add it to 3.4

15:06:14 [kendall]

could we just drop the offending that-phrase?

15:06:44 [KevinW]

s/add it to 3.4/send to mail list/

15:09:57 [DanC]

JDBC is a protocol? really? I thought it was an API

15:09:59 [alberto]

q+

15:10:18 [rob_]

(agreeing with Dan)

15:11:33 [thompsonbry]

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15:11:41 [thompsonbry]

q?

15:11:42 [DanC]

ack alberto

15:13:17 [rob_]

eric, that is not your surname

15:14:10 [alberto]

fromn the Joseki Abstract text "...This document describes a simple network interface to remote RDF models. "

15:15:58 [JanneS]

me too, s/language/protocol/?

15:16:22 [SimonR]

Paragraph 3 of the UC&R seems to indicate protocol is in scope....

15:16:23 [DaveB]

well, rdql meets 3.5 - it does handle local files, software api based Qs

15:16:35 [kendall]

"It must be possible to access local RDF data -- that is, ..." -- is the way I'd change this in a new revision of the doc.

15:16:46 [SimonR]

Oops. Paragraph 3 of section 1, rather.

15:17:48 [DaveB]

q+

15:18:24 [alberto]

our implementation (and Jena / Joseki too I think) supports local & remote RDF data rep. - I guees most of the others - which is local and remote

15:18:28 [DanC]

(kendall, the WG decision was exact on the words, I think; I haven't finished mining the record. but clearly we need to reopen the decision)

15:18:47 [kendall]

fair enough

15:19:48 [DaveB]

q-

15:21:11 [alberto]

e.g. select ?foo from URL.rdf .....

15:23:10 [FarrukhNajmi]

Which 2 things orthogonbal?

15:23:24 [SteveH]

protocol and query language

15:23:51 [DaveB]

q+

15:24:20 [kendall]

i don't want to change 3.5.

15:24:21 [DanC]

ack dave

15:24:25 [FarrukhNajmi]

q+

15:24:37 [DaveB]

q-

15:24:42 [DanC]

ack FarrukhNajmi

15:25:49 [DanC]

hmm... maybe I can get used to questions to the group... hmm...

15:27:16 [DaveB]

local - from a file or addressing an implict graph, such as via a software API

15:27:31 [DanC]

JanneS, perhaps BXXP

15:28:15 [AndyS]

local => same OS process as well (i.e. in-memory)

15:28:24 [SimonR]

I've actually implemented BEEP transport for RDF queries. I'm rather fond of it, but I don't expect it's popular enough to convince other people to like it. :)

15:28:26 [alberto]

daveb: local URIs like file:////Users/foo/rdfs/myfile.rdf vs. jdbc://mydb@foo.bar:1234 or something - what is a remote URL then?

15:28:39 [kendall]

SimonR: URI for that work/docs/paper?

15:28:43 [kendall]

i'm v. interested in that

15:29:25 [rob__]

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15:29:39 [DaveB]

+1 what AndyS says

15:29:43 [SimonR]

kendall: It's not solid enough to show around yet, unfortunately. It's hidden inside the CVS on kowari.sf.net.

15:29:56 [kendall]

SimonR: thx

15:30:11 [alberto]

daveB: ok cleaer now - thanks

15:31:46 [KevinW]

action: BT to draft possible new requirement re: "independence of protocol and query lang."

15:32:15 [kendall]

drafting about what?

15:32:46 [AndyS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0475.html

15:32:52 [DanC]

DRAFT / SeRQL evaluation http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0475.html

15:33:29 [AndyS]

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15:40:08 [KevinW]

DC suggests f2f mtg goal: pick a design(s) (e.g., SeRQL, RDQL, Joseki, etc.) that meets DAWG requirements

15:42:31 [KevinW]

SH to write practical experience on querying performance (bwidth efficiency)

15:42:35 [DanC]

ACTION

15:46:33 [KevinW]

AS to revise SeRQL eval and resend.

15:46:42 [DanC]

ACTION EricP continues

15:46:57 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS continues

15:47:00 [DanC]

Zakim next agendum

15:47:04 [Zakim]

-DaveB

15:47:05 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:47:05 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Test materials (ACTION SteveH)" taken up [from DanC]

15:47:55 [DanC]

ACTION steve continues

15:47:59 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:47:59 [Zakim]

agendum 3 was just opened, DanC

15:48:05 [DanC]

Zakim, close this agendum

15:48:05 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

15:48:06 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:48:07 [Zakim]

4. Use Cases and Requirements document (ACTION EricP) [from DanC]

15:48:10 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:48:10 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Use Cases and Requirements document (ACTION EricP)" taken up [from DanC]

15:49:28 [DanC]

ACTION EricP continues.

15:49:46 [SteveH]

testcase queries: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/

15:50:35 [KevinW]

DC says UC&R publication within next day or two.

15:50:51 [DanC]

ACTION kendall: announce UC&R publication widely

15:50:56 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:50:56 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "requirements: review pending" taken up [from DanC]

15:51:40 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:51:40 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JosD

15:51:54 [DanC]

ok

15:52:07 [Zakim]

-JosD

15:52:08 [Zakim]

-RobS

15:52:08 [Zakim]

-DanC

15:52:09 [Zakim]

-BryanT

15:52:10 [Zakim]

-JanneS

15:52:11 [Zakim]

-[ASemantics]

15:52:12 [Zakim]

-HowardK

15:52:13 [Zakim]

-Farrukh

15:52:14 [Zakim]

-??P18

15:52:17 [alberto]

alberto has left #dawg

15:52:18 [DanC]

Zakimm, agenda?

15:52:21 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:52:23 [DanC]

Zakim, agenda?

15:52:23 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:52:24 [Zakim]

5. requirements: review pending [from DanC]

15:52:31 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:52:31 [DanC]

Zakim, postpone 5

15:52:32 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'postpone 5', DanC

15:52:33 [Zakim]

-Kevin

15:52:39 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:52:43 [AndyS]

AndyS has left #dawg

15:52:44 [howardk]

howardk has left #dawg

15:52:55 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs public

15:52:59 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:53:03 [DanC]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:53:03 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2004/06/01-dawg-irc#T15-53-03

15:53:06 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:53:07 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

15:53:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kevin, HowardK, EricP, DaveB, AndyS, RobS, Kendall_Clark, [ASemantics], SteveH, JanneS, DanC, Farrukh, JosD, BryanT

15:53:12 [SteveH]

SteveH has left #dawg

15:53:20 [DanC]

Kevin, anything else you need? you'll send edited minutes to public-rdf-dawg@w3.org within a day or two?

15:53:59 [SimonR]

Hmm. Zakim missed me in the attendence list.

15:54:25 [DanC]

wierd.

15:54:54 [SimonR]

I'll try not to hold a grudge against it. Machines never understand that anyway. :)

15:55:01 [DanC]

heh

15:55:24 [DanC]

hoot! http://people.w3.org/sandro/2004/dawg/700/all.html

15:57:29 [SimonR]

[I gather it's safe to chat informally now?]

15:57:58 [DanC]

RRSAgent, stop