17:49:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
17:49:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
17:50:41 <Al> Wendy, things I left for you to do:
17:50:50 <Al> 1) create the phone-bridge conference
17:51:04 <Al> 2) [at some point] set log visibility
17:51:16 <wendy> thx
17:51:22 <wendy> RRSAgent, make log public-visible
17:51:28 <wendy> RRSAgent, make log world-visible
17:52:09 <wendy> zakim, do you have room for 13 at 2:00?
17:52:09 <Zakim> wendy, 02:00 is in the past
17:52:19 <wendy> zakim, do you have room for 13 at 14:00?
17:52:20 <Zakim> ok, wendy; conference Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z scheduled with code 83261 (TEAM1) at 14:00 for 60 minutes until 1900Z
17:54:01 <wendy> ok. info sent
17:54:07 <wendy> zakim, this will be TEAM1
17:54:07 <Zakim> ok, wendy; I see Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z scheduled to start in 6 minutes
18:00:25 <Zakim> Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z has now started
18:00:32 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:00:36 <Al> Zakim, call AlGilman-home, please
18:00:36 <Zakim> ok, Al; the call is being made
18:00:37 <Zakim> -[IBM]
18:00:38 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:00:39 <Zakim> +AlGilman
18:00:39 <Zakim> +Wendy
18:01:37 <Zakim> +Dave_Poehlman
18:01:51 <Zakim> +Matt
18:01:55 <MattSEA> MattSEA has joined #wai-wcag
18:02:00 <Zakim> +Greg_Pisocky
18:02:56 <chaalsBRS> chaalsBRS has joined #wai-wcag
18:03:02 <Rich> Rich has joined #wai-wcag
18:03:09 <Al> Zakim, [IBM] is Rich
18:03:09 <Zakim> +Rich; got it
18:04:19 <MarkPilgrim> MarkPilgrim has joined #wai-wcag
18:04:50 <Al> MarkPilgrim, have you had trouble with the dial-in instructions?
18:04:58 <Zakim> + +1.919.523.aaaa
18:05:08 <MarkPilgrim> i'm in
18:05:14 <Al> Zakim, aaaa is MarkPilgrim
18:05:14 <Zakim> +MarkPilgrim; got it
18:06:43 <Zakim> + +1.512.335.aabb
18:06:56 <wendy> zakim, 512 is Barry
18:06:56 <Zakim> sorry, wendy, I do not recognize a party named '512'
18:07:27 <Al> Zakim, aabb is Barry
18:07:27 <Zakim> +Barry; got it
18:07:36 <dpoehlman> dpoehlman has joined #wai-wcag
18:08:38 <Al> q+
18:09:03 <wendy> ack al
18:09:34 <wendy> al: issues that mark raised are direclty related to roadmap that rich is working on
18:10:59 <wendy> ag: problems are at UAAG-level because we don't have the binding arch
18:11:34 <wendy> rs accessibility issues w/gmail?
18:11:41 <wendy> mp not keyboard-navigable
18:11:51 <wendy> mp many links are not links.
18:11:58 <wendy> mp they look like them, but can't tab to them
18:12:08 <wendy> mp global keyboard shortcuts
18:12:49 <wendy> mp "gi" moves back to in box.  j and k to move to messages. press return to view.
18:12:56 <wendy> mp fake via javascript
18:13:05 <wendy> mp up arrow move up a message
18:13:16 <wendy> mp no way to know currently selected msg.
18:13:31 <wendy> mp global keyboard shortcuts interfere w/jaws (as primary interface)
18:13:36 <wendy> rs drag and drop?
18:13:44 <wendy> mp haven't seen any. keyboard-oriented
18:14:18 <wendy> dp to turn on global shortcuts, click settings which is simulated
18:15:03 <wendy> mp part of issue, replace span with a elements
18:15:14 <wendy> mp other issue is with trapping keyboard events
18:15:34 <wendy> rs issue w/giving non-active elements focus.
18:15:48 <wendy> rs this is where classes of elements and extensions will be useful
18:18:23 <wendy> wcag says: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#keyboard-operation
18:18:29 <wendy> Guideline 2.1 Make all functionality operable via a keyboard or a keyboard interface.
18:18:40 <Rich> http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/screen1.html
18:19:11 <MarkPilgrim> in that screenshot, the following things are keyboard inaccessible:
18:19:16 <MarkPilgrim> settings link
18:19:21 <MarkPilgrim> compose mail
18:19:29 <MarkPilgrim> inbox/starred/sent mail/other folders
18:19:35 <wendy> bf what about asst. techs
18:19:40 <MarkPilgrim> select all/read/unread/other options
18:19:48 <wendy> rs not worry so much about how AT will act, need to make sure arch supports ATs
18:20:09 <MarkPilgrim> there is a small ">" marker to show the "currently selected message"
18:20:20 <MarkPilgrim> but a screen reader has no access to that state
18:20:24 <wendy> rs infrastructure has to be mapped and ATs have to implement
18:21:18 <wendy> wac new blogger templates?
18:21:49 <wendy> mp templates are pure css. homepage is well marked up. semantic markup, real lists, etc.
18:21:56 <wendy> mp beautiful in lynx and works
18:22:18 <wendy> mp all valid xhtml and css
18:22:31 <wendy> m3m there is one little bug
18:23:08 <wendy> rs one way to address in auth tools and wcag, all objects have to be navigable. have to give them focus.
18:23:23 <wendy> rs until we have the infrastructure, use the a element
18:23:48 <wendy> rs then have to find appropriate semantics about the element
18:24:15 <wendy> rs auth tool have to map the existing framework on the platforms. for dynamic content, define what are the events and allow AT to gain access
18:24:22 <wendy> rs need to know what thte object is
18:24:45 <wendy> rs autho tool "select from palette of accessible widgets" or prompt author
18:24:57 <wendy> [but how stored in content if no existing sematnics?]
18:25:08 <wendy> rs could call it role in wcag
18:25:14 <wendy> rs "anchor" "list item"
18:25:38 <wendy> rs semantics ahve to match what doing. e.g., if table used for formatting, not really a table.
18:27:31 <Al> q+
18:28:28 <wendy> wac we need a vocabulary for the author to use 
18:28:36 <wendy> ack al
18:28:54 <wendy> ag the vocabulary is less-well-realized
18:28:58 <wendy> rs coord w/wcag on vocab
18:29:17 <wendy> ag existing: class and rel/rev on links
18:29:58 <wendy> wac can use them, but until common vocab, how will uas and ats use them?
18:30:57 <wendy> ag look at lisa's suggestion for transcoder.  leave house style as is on the web page.  in a separate docu (that points into site) can include info to key transformations to reflow interface for a given context
18:31:47 <wendy> ag don't have to have agreement on terminology as long as people document it
18:33:05 <wendy> ag convert content to anchor tags and form elements
18:38:23 <wendy> ag use more semantic classes - next order of business
18:38:37 <wendy> ag we dn' thave to have final consensus, can be network of repository
18:38:47 <wendy> ag e.g., map element
18:43:38 <wendy> ag thre may be techniques that people aren't using yet: e..g. using a form control like an edit box w/static content, make it read-only so that it can get focus.
18:44:09 <wendy> rs would that confuse people?  that the form should be doing something?
18:44:14 <wendy> ag need to experiment
18:45:28 <wendy> ag web applications is that they are rich in verbs. the access problems are the verb problems discussed in uaag. 
18:46:25 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#technology-supports-access
18:46:33 <wendy> Any programmatic user interface components of the content conform to at least the default set of conformance requirements of the UAAG 1.0 at Level A plus the sets of requirements (a) through (j) (below) that apply. If the custom user interfaces cannot be made accessible, an alternative solution is provided that meets WCAG 2.0 (including this provision) to the level claimed. [V] 
18:46:33 <wendy> Requirements (a) through (j)
18:46:34 <wendy> ...
18:49:52 <wendy> basic issue boils down to semantics and mapping those to APIs of the UI
18:51:13 <wendy> rs a - we konw the sematnics. span is not navigable, don't have semantics
18:51:35 <wendy> rs if use elements that meet criterion, from wcag say "here's how you do it"
18:55:10 <Al> WAC: review candidate normative provisions (guidelines and success criteria) to see if they are suitably generic to apply across present and future tech
18:58:30 <wendy> wcag 1.3 talks about programmatic determination of relationships, emphasis, etc 
18:58:38 <wendy> focus - we leave that to user agent
18:58:43 <wendy> 1.3 does not talk about role
18:58:49 <wendy> or status
18:58:54 <wendy> rs author needs to give focus
18:59:45 <wendy> rs author doesn't have ability to give focus due to design flaw 
18:59:50 <wendy> wac design flaw mostly that of html
19:00:29 <wendy> wac related to css3 where design navigation flow
19:01:06 <wendy> ag user's actions on user agent needs to give content focus. author must encode in a way that ua recognize as something to recieve focus
19:01:25 <wendy> ag writing that into xml - these are in the focusable class
19:03:21 <wendy> short-term: wac write up presentation for next week
19:03:30 <wendy> long-term: more joint sessions (atag/uaag/wcag/pf)
19:03:56 <wendy> ag good to bracket problem with worked examples
19:04:08 <dpoehlman> dpoehlman has left #wai-wcag
19:04:14 <Zakim> -Barry
19:04:15 <Zakim> -Greg_Pisocky
19:04:16 <Zakim> -Rich
19:04:17 <Zakim> -Wendy
19:04:18 <Zakim> -MarkPilgrim
19:04:19 <Zakim> -Dave_Poehlman
19:04:28 <Zakim> -Matt
19:04:32 <Zakim> -AlGilman
19:04:33 <Zakim> Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z has ended
19:04:34 <Zakim> Attendees were AlGilman, Wendy, Dave_Poehlman, Matt, Greg_Pisocky, Rich, +1.919.523.aaaa, MarkPilgrim, +1.512.335.aabb, Barry
19:04:52 <MarkPilgrim> nice little bot
19:05:19 <wendy> :)
19:05:36 <wendy> mark - thanks for the offer to quote/steal from your review.  it's a good piece.
19:06:44 <MarkPilgrim> np
19:08:10 <MattSEA> MattSEA has left #wai-wcag
19:08:49 <wendy> zakim, bye
19:08:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
19:08:52 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
19:08:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items