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07:18:26 <DanC_AMS> (break for network)
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07:20:07 <Yoshio> Hello there
07:20:22 <alberto> Hi
07:20:30 <AndyS> = DAWG F2F
07:20:31 <AndyS> Dan: Hi!
07:20:31 <AndyS> Present Alberto, Dirk, DanC, Yoshi, Hiroyuki Sato (NTT), Steve, DaveB, AndyS, Rob Shearer, Howard, Janne,
07:20:31 <AndyS> Phone: 
07:20:33 <AndyS> Regrets: Bryan, Patrick,
07:20:35 <AndyS> Scribe: AndyS
07:20:38 <AndyS> == W3C Process /DanC
07:20:39 <AndyS> Objective: Concensus on technology
07:20:41 <AndyS> Finished when community agrees
07:20:43 <AndyS> Working Drafts every 3 months
07:20:45 <AndyS> Public Records
07:20:47 <AndyS> Charter: WG can't unilaterally change it
07:20:49 <AndyS> DaveB: Target: strawman decision??
07:20:51 <AndyS> DanC: Not a big deal
07:20:57 <AndyS> Important use cases, requirements
07:20:59 <AndyS> Howard: origins of this WG?
07:21:01 <AndyS> DanC: Community work (Alberto, Libby et al.) => WG
07:21:04 <AndyS> Done by middle next year: (June 2005)
07:21:05 <AndyS> == Use cases
07:21:17 <AndyS> DanC: Will present at WWW2004 => will use Use Cases as illustration 
07:21:17 <AndyS> Similarly for the WG home page
07:21:17 <AndyS> (network is up ....)
07:22:20 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
07:23:11 <AndyS> Jean-François arrives
07:24:20 <AndyS> DanC asks for UC comments from around table
07:24:37 <AndyS> Janne: Profium - SIR product
07:25:02 <AndyS> Implemented UC 5.5 Multisource collection
07:25:29 <AndyS> Serving info to different users
07:26:11 <AndyS> Requires: queries on union of multisource (not model info)
07:26:51 <AndyS> Have own QL (RDFQL)
07:27:20 <AndyS> Query result as a graph, not variable binding, for further processing
07:27:33 <AndyS> Do XSLT on query result
07:27:50 <AndyS> ++ Danc has questions, as had Steve
07:28:04 <AndyS> s/had/has/
07:28:11 <AndyS> Howard: Learning mode
07:28:46 <AndyS> Data access and storage servers / figuring out usage
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07:29:18 <DanC_AMS> Andy: ...
07:29:42 <DanC_AMS> ... several of the use cases look relevance... both [oops; I'm lost already]
07:30:27 <DanC_AMS> ... the need for a query language comes from dealing with large bodies of data; programmer time is used inefficiently unless/until you have a query language
07:30:49 <DanC_AMS> ... we haven't done much with provenance yet...
07:31:05 <DanC_AMS> ... We've done "find email address..." sort of stuff...
07:31:22 <DanC_AMS> ... [something about "finding a part" that I didn't get the gist of]
07:32:48 <AndyS> Janne: Has similar example to 5.5.1 in media domain
07:32:58 <AndyS> DanC; That makes it a different UC
07:34:27 <AndyS> DaveB/dajobe: Colleagues with query people- Libby et al
07:34:39 <AndyS> Find stuff about X - web of information
07:35:21 <AndyS> Example: in ILRT - support services for University (its ILRT)
07:35:29 <AndyS> Eg Distance learning
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07:35:49 <AndyS> Wander round vocabulary to explore info space
07:36:17 <AndyS> Will be building a thesaurus search
07:36:32 <AndyS> Howard arrives
07:36:32 <AndyS> Jos arrives
07:37:11 <AndyS> DaveB will write up this educational metadata UC
07:39:18 <AndyS> (DanC does intros for new arrivals)
07:41:02 <AndyS> DanC sumarises for Kendall as editor
07:41:45 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
07:42:02 <AndyS> EricP arrives
07:43:30 <AndyS> Jos: Medical use case (Dirk) - UC 5.9.1 
07:43:43 <AndyS> Real world problem
07:43:51 <AndyS> UC is ordering X-ray
07:46:12 <AndyS> Requirements: sort order, optional triples, complex graph patterns (more than 1 edge)
07:47:30 <AndyS> RobS: Seen uses in military, medical records, manufacturing, supply chain
07:47:43 <AndyS> 5.10.1 : find employees by group - OWL addition
07:48:11 <AndyS> Need to note upper layers and provide same interface as base RDF layer
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07:49:19 <AndyS> SteveH: Built 3Store: RDFS scalable store
07:49:34 <AndyS> Users have too much info, varying quality
07:49:49 <AndyS> Fluid datasets (per second change)
07:50:15 <AndyS> Interests in provenance (small "p")
07:51:14 <AndyS> Customers - aerospace, medical infomatics, jet engines
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07:52:23 <AndyS> Hiroyuki: interest context in documents
07:54:07 <kendall> dirkx: where is the WC?
07:54:33 <AndyS> Yoshio: Home appliances : users in the home, people who sell the products, ourselves - manufacturer of the products
07:55:02 <AndyS> UC: TV sets, mobile phone, car appliances (navigation)
07:55:17 <AndyS> eg 5.1.3
07:55:27 <kendall> daveb: thx!
07:55:38 <AndyS> 5.6.1 - motorcycle parts
07:56:14 <AndyS> 5.2.2 - reviews of products
07:56:52 <AndyS> Offers UC from Japanese POV
07:57:54 <AndyS> Jean-François: Likes 5.10.1
07:58:15 <AndyS> Mixing languages
07:58:38 <AndyS> on the semantic web
07:58:46 <DaveB> (not human langs?)
07:59:08 <kendall> dirkx: thx
07:59:13 <kendall> heh
08:00:28 <DaveB> there's no logging bot here
08:00:39 <DaveB> oops, I see it
08:00:41 <AndyS> DanC: Fav UC to sell work: media, news aggregation and product metadata
08:01:09 <AndyS> Fav UC to personally motivate: email queries
08:01:33 <AndyS> More general than IMAP ql
08:01:54 <AndyS> Also last call issue tracking from scraped HTML docs
08:02:06 <AndyS> Geospacial queries as well.
08:02:34 <AndyS> Kendall: Like ones in doc (!! he's the editor)
08:02:59 <AndyS> esp. ones that can live on the public web
08:03:45 <AndyS> Users: intelligence community
08:04:11 <AndyS> Kendall notes: there is are more UCs to go in
08:05:14 <AndyS> Alberto: asemantics/RDFStore - Customers: Euro Space Agency, Ministry of Water (NL) 
08:05:15 <kendall> two from steveh (bandwidth efficiency & chunking -- IIRC) and one from path (owl)
08:05:38 <AndyS> asemantics: Hybrid datasets in XML
08:06:02 <AndyS> thin layer of RDF to provide common view of heterogeneous datasets
08:06:26 <AndyS> Aggreggation, also extend QL for eg. geospacial queries
08:06:53 <AndyS> UCs: tell me about X
08:07:04 <AndyS> Need provenance from aggregations
08:07:49 <AndyS> Scalability is an issue: e.g. 1000 results
08:08:08 <AndyS> RDF query is ambition in practical terms
08:08:31 <AndyS> Dirkx: Integrate with GIS, and its extensions.
08:08:44 <AndyS> ESN (space): "partially enclosed"
08:08:53 <AndyS> s/ESN/ESA/
08:09:26 <AndyS> RDQL is like SQL makes it an easier sell to customers
08:09:43 <AndyS> but does not solve all problems - needs extensions
08:09:51 <AndyS> based on application domain
08:10:20 <AndyS> Current use cases should exhibit these extension features
08:10:43 <AndyS> EricP: Arbitrary graph query: esp 5.2.2. - News stories
08:10:54 <AndyS> c.f. annotation server inc provenace
08:11:51 <AndyS> Routinely use disjunction for evolution of DC properties
08:12:11 <AndyS> Also "things that are about this"
08:12:26 <AndyS> -- Once round room done --
08:12:41 <AndyS> Restart at 10:30
08:24:59 <Yoshio> Here's the URI for my additional use cases http://www.w3.org/2004/04/21-fuku/usecases
08:25:38 <Yoshio> They may not be corresponding to what I said (^_^;)
08:26:11 <Yoshio> I made them to cover some technologies I think needed and not covered by exsiting ones
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08:31:47 <kendall> 10:30-12:30 DAWG Session
08:32:58 <ericP> DanC: tell us what you want us to know about the use cases document
08:33:13 <ericP> Kendal: i tried to describe the benifits but got tired
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08:33:35 <ericP> ... some use cases may not have had a unique benifit.
08:33:49 <ericP> ... if you see use caess that need benifits, ping me
08:34:16 <ericP> RobS: who are we trying to show the benifits too?
08:36:06 <ericP> RobS: compare each to writing a bunch of custom code
08:36:30 <ericP> Kendal: just occured to me to move the use cases to a separate part of the doc
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08:36:40 <ericP> ... everyones's use cases are different
08:36:48 <ericP> ... do we want a standard form?
08:37:08 <ericP> ... then benifits section would go away
08:37:30 <ericP> RobS: is the use case all problem? part problem and part use case?
08:37:47 <ericP> Kendal: there ar a few more that need to go in. interested in structural suggestions.
08:38:03 <ericP> s/Kendal\b/Kendall/g
08:38:53 <ericP> Jos: currently a there is a link between the use cases and the requirements
08:39:17 <ericP> is *NOT*
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08:39:40 <ericP> Kendall: we discussed this in a teleconf. would like to establish this link.
08:40:09 <kendall> So I'll work on making those linkages explicit soon, per DanC's whisper to me just now. :>
08:40:26 <ericP> RobS: are we trying demonstrate to markets or are we trying to establish technical requirements?
08:40:42 <ericP> DanC: i think we have 3x to many right now.
08:40:47 <Yoshio> Here's the URI for my additional use cases http://www.w3.org/2004/04/21-fuku/usecases 
08:40:54 <ericP> RobS: we are missing a few right now:
08:40:58 <Yoshio> They may not be corresponding to what I said (^_^;)
08:41:05 <kendall> Yoshio: I'll look at yr use cases once I get back home. :>
08:41:05 <ericP> ... returning tuples ala a JOIN in SQL
08:41:07 <Yoshio> I made them to cover some technologies I think needed and not covered by exsiting ones
08:41:36 <ericP> DanC: you mean returing more than one result?
08:42:07 <ericP> RobS: yes. most of the use cases can be met without returning tuples.
08:42:27 <ericP> DanC: we don't have to do requirements tracing all the way back to your use cases.
08:42:54 <ericP> ... if we get to a disagreement in the design, we may have to come back to use cases.
08:43:47 <ericP> Kendall: we don't need a use case motivating every requirement but we need to tie the use caess we have to requirements.
08:43:58 <kendall> AndyS: there's no harm in repeating benefits or tech requirements.
08:44:15 <ericP> AndyS: it has an inward and outward utility.
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08:44:59 <ericP> Kendall: we want to go down to 5 or 6?
08:45:16 <ericP> DanC: how many to folks want?
08:45:28 <ericP> ericP: how many were in the XQuery spec?
08:45:39 <ericP> DanC: not a precedent I want to follow.
08:46:20 <ericP> Yoshio: how can we avoid missing important technical points if we restrict the number of use cases in advance?
08:46:31 <ericP> DanC: we can always add them later
08:47:02 <ericP> ... We'll publish a document that will show people what we're doing.
08:47:43 <ericP> ... We only get one chance to make a first impression, but some typos will involve public reviewers
08:48:15 <kendall> Document meant to help facilitate discussion over the design.
08:48:37 <ericP> ... When someone introduces an important use case, we may just agree to change the group's mind or we may need to go back to the use cases.
08:49:23 <ericP> DanC: requirements are strict. if one is too hard, we must republish the requirements to remove it.
08:49:43 <ericP> ... Use cases can look like they salve the world's problems.
08:50:10 <kendall> RobS: we could have layered/stratified Use Cases. 5 v. complex ones, 10 less detailed ones.
08:51:11 <ericP> Danc: that appeals to me 'cause we can answer user X's use cases
08:51:12 <ericP> JeanF: we can then list related problems.
08:51:31 <kendall> RobS: clients often ask for use cases outside their area of expertise.
08:52:44 <ericP> DanC: want to see the buzzwords in the TOC
08:53:50 <ericP> [discussion of separate use cases and requirements documents]
08:54:22 <ericP> [consensus seems to be one document?]
08:56:03 <ericP> DanC: would like to start document with "Because there are no formal standards..." section
08:56:30 <ericP> Kendall: will re-order
08:57:15 <jannes> pls change <h2>-><h1> for Use cases section in html
08:57:37 <kendall> AndyS - thanks
08:57:56 <ericP> RobS: s/Use cases are used to determine/Use cases are used to illustrate/
08:59:19 <ericP> DanC: remove DAWG from every place except the status section
08:59:39 <kendall> jannes: gotcha
09:01:49 <JosD> wrt definition of "use case" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&edition=us&q=define%3A%22use+case%22&btnG=Search&meta=
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09:02:23 <ericP> RobS: should we illustrate the starting RDF?
09:02:23 <ericP> ... would like links to external RDF.
09:02:23 <ericP> EricP: we discussed sprinking graphs in the document.
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09:03:23 <kendall> ActionItem: RobS will generate some RDF (in some form) for 5.1.1.
09:03:54 <ericP> ActionItem: EricP will generate a PNG
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09:05:48 <ericP> RobS: re 5.1.1, what is John Smith a string? a URI? a popup selection?
09:06:34 <kendall> dirkx: fwiw, i haven't been able to read mail over ssh because of packet loss (i assume)
09:07:48 <ericP> Yoshio: is the user supposed to know the email in advance? if not, how can the user choose the correct one without extra information?
09:09:39 <ericP> RobS: are we saying that the name is "John Smith"? or that the user knows about a person named "John Smith"?
09:10:25 <ericP> ... Steve Bastiseeny (SP?)
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09:11:23 <ericP> RobS: I would like the use case to say which of the above we are addressing.
09:13:10 <ericP> Yoshio: so the client just knows the email address? how can he pick the "best"?
09:13:25 <ericP> EricP: let's address the case where he does know more.
09:16:10 <ericP> [discuss: s/George wants to send an email message to John Smith./George wants to send an email message to a person named "John Smith".]
09:16:37 <ericP> [discuss: removing "best match"]
09:17:42 <ericP> DanC: 5.1.1. is probably in the top 5
09:17:52 <ericP> (per straw poll)
09:18:28 <alberto> notices small typo in 5.1.1 - '.... tthe "To:" field ' ---> '....the "To:" field'
09:19:11 <kendall> alberto: got it
09:19:38 <ericP> [discuss 5.1.2.]
09:20:09 <ericP> Andys: I like this one to demonstrate use for data *access*
09:21:39 <ericP> Janne: suggest this get merged with another to provide concrete query
09:25:02 <ericP> [waiting for another to merge 5.1.2. with]
09:25:16 <ericP> [discuss 5.1.3.]
09:27:33 <ericP> Alberto: wanted to deomonstrate data integration.
09:27:36 <Yoshio> q?
09:27:49 <Yoshio> * oh no zakim
09:28:10 <kendall> i like this use case, and i like alberto's use case, but there needs to be more work done on it before we can do much with it.
09:28:12 <ericP> RobS: that changes my view of this use case
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09:29:42 <ericP> Janne: are we doing an RPC query or a notification request?
09:31:18 <ericP> ACTION: Kendall and Alerto to work on 5.1.3.
09:31:55 <ericP> ACTION: RobS to generate some RDF (in some form) for 5.1.1.
09:32:13 <ericP> ACTION: EricP to generate a PNG for 5.1.1.
09:32:43 <kendall> dirkx: any idea about setting MTU on mac 10.3?
09:33:24 <kendall> thx
09:33:36 <ericP> Yoshio: what about the inverse case? where she finds an article and wants to find related programs?
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09:34:49 <kendall> seems to have helped me too
09:34:50 <kendall> yay
09:35:06 <ericP> ACTION: Yoshio to write up Kate finds an article and wants to find related programs
09:36:40 <ericP> [discuss: 5.2.1.]
09:36:48 <ericP> DanC: very general title
09:37:13 <ericP> RobS: I don't want to imply Natural Language Processing. probably work pointers to the bots.
09:38:01 <ericP> Kendall: more concrete title: Sharing Resources with a Friend
09:39:44 <ericP> DaveB: people use these bots to say "this image depicts this person"
09:39:55 <ericP> DanC: that would be good to add
09:40:13 <ericP> RobS: family plugs in camera and it goes on the web
09:40:33 <ericP> ... stuff you say in IRC shows up in RDF and you can perform a robust query
09:40:46 <ericP> ... This photo was taken at this location.
09:41:09 <ericP> JeanF: puts too much imortance on the generation of the RDF
09:44:16 <ericP> (sorry, that was Janne)
09:46:39 <ericP> RobS: "The person I was telling you about yesterday..."
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09:47:46 <ericP> Kendall: trim the mentions of irc, link to chump bot.
09:48:14 <ericP> ... "Sharing tulip photos wiht a friend"
09:49:20 <ericP> Alberto: could be a journalist who sends photos, articles and irc descriptions
09:50:06 <ericP> s/descriptions/annotations/
09:50:16 <ericP> ACTION: Kendall to recast this in terms of some tool for annotating photos.
09:50:40 <DaveB> ref to chump bot, image annotation bot, photostuff, etc.  but a little less irc
09:51:04 <alberto> or some kind of online translation service for articles using IRC + RDF + FOAF/codepiction ideas - just give some thoughts..
09:53:23 <ericP> [discuss: 5.2.2.]
09:54:19 <ericP> Kendall: I have users who wish to share in the protocol benifits without relinquishing their query language
09:56:18 <ericP> SteveH: does require current QLs to change to adopt the new protocol
09:57:27 <ericP> ACTION: Kendall to add negotiation of query lang to candidate requirements
09:58:09 <ericP> Yoshio: QL negotiations is related to extensibility and layers of impelementation.
09:58:35 <ericP> ... for some home appliances, it would be difficult to impelement a whole QL.
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11:30:29 <DanC_AMS> Zakim, this will be RDFD
11:30:29 <Zakim> ok, DanC_AMS; I see SW_DAWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 30 minutes
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11:43:13 <DanC_AMS> (aha... found Ian's TAG/webarch slides: http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/0121-ij-xmlgov/all.htm)
11:44:26 <Yoshio> I put some chocolates on the coffee table. They are Japanese one, sorry, but please feel free to take them. 
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12:01:15 <DaveB> editing http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftfreq.txt
12:02:00 <JosD> help
12:02:24 <JosD> aliad JosD JosD_scribe
12:02:29 <JosD> alias JosD JosD_scribe
12:02:36 <ericP> ... end of notes from lasst session:
12:02:43 <ericP> [discussion of tradeoff between compatibility and flexibility when using profiles]
12:02:43 <ericP> Janne: could merge this one with 5.1.2.
12:02:43 <ericP> Kendal: noted
12:02:43 <ericP> AndyS: I would like to deal with the forward looking issue of future forms of query languages that we can't imagine yet.
12:02:46 <ericP> RobS: would like it to show the other QLs that motivate lang negotiation.
12:02:49 <ericP> [5.1.2. is top 10 for 1/2, top 5 for 1]
12:02:51 <ericP> [discuss "benifits"]
12:02:54 <ericP> AndyS: benifits and list of use cases with tieback to the benifits.
12:03:44 <JosD_scribe> ========== discussion abour requirements
12:04:39 <JosD_scribe> RobS: don't see anything about tuples
12:05:42 <JosD_scribe> btw DaveB is editing the list online and projected on the screen (in the meeting room)
12:07:41 <JosD_scribe> DanC: proposing "Results of a query can have more than one variable in the bindings"
12:10:59 <JosD_scribe> Jean-Francios: one graph can be obtained by different bindings (some discussion wether that is the case)
12:12:10 <JosD_scribe> (... a test case woukd be in place here)
12:13:48 <AndyS> UC 5.7.1 finding input and output documents for test cases
12:15:45 <JosD_scribe> DirkX: query results can be a binding and on other occasions a graph
12:20:02 <JosD_scribe> Jean-Francois: keeping track of the *triple* binding
12:21:56 <JosD_scribe> Janne: agrees that returning graphs is sufficient (although there could be a compctness issue)
12:23:39 <JosD_scribe> (JosD had similar argument for graphs)
12:24:38 <Yoshio> http://www.w3.org/2004/04/21-fuku/usecases.htmlq?
12:24:44 <Yoshio> q?
12:24:48 <Yoshio> q+
12:25:18 <JosD_scribe> Steve: remarks about contexts (lost it a bit)
12:26:20 <JosD_scribe> RobS: graphs are far beyound what users can understand, return to users in the simplest way
12:27:27 <kendall> the answer is "both" :>
12:28:40 <JosD_scribe> Andy: 5.7.1 but added "streaming" and "sorting" and then we need bindings
12:30:25 <DaveB> RobS said: if you know the queyr, very often you can transform the query into the graph having the bindings, the opposite is not necessarily true
12:30:50 <JosD_scribe> RobS: you can transform bindings to graphs whereas the opposite is not always the case
12:34:56 <JosD_scribe> ACTION: JanneS to provide an example of graph / binding
12:36:01 <JosD_scribe> EricP: for negation and disjunction the "graph to bindings" is impossible (if I got that right??)
12:37:22 <ericP> you can only reconstruct a graph from a set of bindings and the original query if the orginal query is a simple conjunction or has variables separating the different possible paths for a solution
12:38:41 <ericP> eg, a solution for ?a to the query (?a dc10:title "foo") || (?a dc:title "bar") will not lead to a graph
12:38:47 <JosD_scribe> Jean-Francios is projecting some slides showing *triple* bindings
12:40:53 <JosD_scribe> ... suggesting that the computation of graph-to-bindings can be NP expensive
12:43:45 <JosD_scribe> Andy: 5.1.1 motivates bindings (more than 5.7.1)
12:44:28 <AndyS> Other way round - 5.7.1. is a better motivation
12:50:10 <JosD_scribe> Albert: both are relevant at the end of the day
12:51:07 <Yoshio> * I feel like pushing the SUBMIT button :)
12:51:39 <JosD_scribe> (DirkX also made a similar remark before which I forgot to scribe...)
12:52:12 <JosD_scribe> RobS: can we put the question as "why do we need graphs?"
12:56:57 <JosD_scribe> DanC asks for push or break - it is push
12:57:42 <JosD_scribe> straw poll shows that majority wants bindings, but still no consesus
12:58:21 <JosD_scribe> start from the top of the list of requirements
12:59:35 <JosD_scribe> queries with optional triples: yes 9 no 1
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13:03:13 <JosD_scribe> queries with disjunction: yes 4 no 3 chat more 2 - 3
13:05:50 <JosD_scribe> Steve: would allow disjunction on a node; on triples it is a nightmare
13:07:35 <JosD_scribe> EricP: implementation experience and examples, do union of results
13:09:16 <JosD_scribe> ... mechanically merge the results but 5 goes to 25
13:11:19 <JosD_scribe> DanC: use conjunction on the triples and owl disjunction
13:19:41 <JosD_scribe> discussing "Query results using 1) graph entailment OR 2) treating the graph as a fixed object"
13:22:39 <JosD_scribe> Kendall: motivating use case 5.5.1
13:25:10 <JosD_scribe> proposal to move it to the very bottom
13:27:28 <JosD_scribe> "queries expressing arbitrary RDF data types" yes 6 no 3
13:29:46 <JosD_scribe> "datatypes xsd:integer, xsd:float with operations less than, equal, greater than" has sufficient support
13:31:13 <JosD_scribe> ============== time for a break======================
13:48:58 <DanC_AMS> . http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/0121-ij-xmlgov/all.htm
13:51:25 <ericP> DanC speaks on web architecture
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14:04:57 <ericP> AndyS: are there issue trends?
14:06:31 <ericP> [DanC does a flyby of the document with the comments]
14:06:51 <ericP> DanC: section 2 (identification) is the winner
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14:10:58 <ericP> DanC: I don't have enough to data to discuss publications -- back to use cases
14:13:20 <ericP>  [discuss 5.3.1.]
14:13:42 <ericP> top 10 for 5 folks
14:15:52 <ericP> DanC: we may eliminate disjunction from the requirements, but it would still be useful to show folks how to do it.
14:15:58 <ericP> top 5 for 1
14:17:26 <ericP> ericP: is this the spokesmodel for disjunction?
14:17:32 <ericP> DanC, Kendall: yes
14:17:50 <ericP> [discuss 5.4.1.]
14:18:51 <ericP> RobS: expressing the RDF that we're querying affects the query.
14:19:27 <ericP> DanC: does the DB have great-circle arithmetic support?
14:19:50 <ericP> DanC: one agency is happy if the QL has +-<>
14:20:07 <ericP> ... another agency wants great-circle, square root.
14:21:43 <ericP> Alberto: this use case is useful to clarify extension syntax to solve queries
14:23:06 <ericP> DanC: i expect this discussion in the design. Patrick has raised it.
14:24:43 <ericP> ... beware of interoperatbility sacrifices with too many optional features
14:24:58 <kendall> i'm learning to hate that argument. mainly because it's true. :<
14:25:07 <kendall> er, valid and its premises are  likely true, i shld say
14:26:05 <ericP> AndyS: i dropped functions for this reason
14:29:39 <Yoshio> are we discussing on the premises?
14:32:52 <ericP> top 10 for 9
14:32:57 <ericP> top 5 for 7
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14:34:21 <Yoshio> * I was amazed by Zakim saying so
14:34:25 <ericP> [discuss: 5.5.1. Finding unknown human persons]
14:34:44 <ericP> CONSENSUS: recast as media thing.
14:35:14 <ericP> top 10 for 10
14:35:25 <ericP> top 5 for 5
14:37:29 <ericP> Yoshio: content is good but the intelligence/military aspect may put people off
14:38:23 <ericP> DanC: it is expected that recasting will address this
14:38:38 <ericP> [discuss:: 5.6.1. Finding information about motorcycle parts]
14:39:04 <ericP> RobS: wasn't motivated by the "tell me about" aspect of this
14:39:33 <ericP> [DaveB: describes his "tell me about" mechanics]
14:40:01 <ericP> RobS: interactive browsing interests me
14:41:01 <ericP> [SteveH discusses his implementations of "tell me about"]
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14:43:35 <ericP> ACTION: SteveH to get a write-up of the semantic browser use case
14:47:02 <ericP> top 10 for 8
14:47:10 <alberto> in relation to Semantic Web broweser UC see "How to make a Semantic Web browser" http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/dquan/www2004-browser.pdf - good/inspiring perhaps
14:47:28 <ericP> top 5 for 0
14:48:32 <Yoshio> http://www.w3.org/2004/04/21-fuku/usecases.html
14:48:54 <ericP> [discussion of supply chain use cases]
14:50:41 <ericP> ACTION: Kendall to look at Yoshio's use cases.
14:51:18 <ericP> [discuss: 5.7.1. Finding input and output documents for test cases]
14:51:32 <ericP> unique feature: triple orienated
14:51:44 <ericP> top 10 for 9
14:51:58 <ericP> top 5 for 4
14:52:47 <ericP> [discuss: 5.7.2. Describing software configurations]
14:53:47 <ericP> top 10 for 9
14:53:53 <ericP> top 5 for 2
14:56:14 <ericP> [discuss: 5.8.1. Avoiding traffic jams]
14:56:37 <ericP> Kendall: the magic can go away by fixing the last sentence
14:57:30 <kendall> well, really, i don't think there is magic in it, but -shrug-.
14:57:44 <kendall> we do web service composition backed by an HTN planner
14:58:12 <ericP> RobS: could move the three queries from the use case to the solution
14:58:41 <ericP> ... would document that the RDF stores are independent
14:58:48 <ericP> ... would not go beyond that.
14:59:34 <ericP> Jos: maps are world-wide. you just go for the part relevent to you
14:59:55 <Yoshio> * +1 to dirk
15:00:14 <ericP> RobS: There exists public RDF stores. One stores traffic, one stores weather, ...
15:00:50 <kendall> dirk: yum!!
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15:19:30 <DaveB> path case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0130.html
15:19:32 <DaveB> PatH
15:21:41 <ericP> ADJOURN
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