15:18:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
15:19:40 <DanC_> the critical things to record are decisions and action items. It's nice if you can capture the sense of the discussion, but it's not essential.
15:19:50 <DanC_> And there's no need to transcribe everything everybody says.
15:20:25 <DanC_> I often look at what the scribe writes down to get a sense of what an arbitrary WG memeber understands from the discussion.
15:21:02 <DanC_> oh... attendance is also fairly critical.
15:21:21 <Jeff> OK
15:21:38 <DanC_> i.e. it's important that the record show the attendance. It's not critical that you get it 100% right: the rest of the WG is expected to review your proposed record.
15:21:40 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
15:22:32 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
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15:23:48 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
15:23:55 <Zakim> +Tayeb
15:24:09 <DanC_> hmm. no ring
15:24:16 <jannes> jannes has joined #dawg
15:24:21 <Zakim> +??P17
15:24:25 <Zakim> +DanC
15:25:29 <DanC_> thompsonbry, dave, have you looked at the suggested talk titles in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1 ?
15:26:21 <Zakim> +??P34
15:27:25 <Jeff> PHONE: Dan Connoly, Jean-François Baget, Stephen Harris?, Andy Seaborne?
15:27:31 <DanC_> ericp, /op me , please
15:27:39 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
15:27:41 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:27:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, SteveH, DanC, AndyS
15:28:15 <Zakim> +BryanT
15:28:35 <Jeff> Bryan Thompson
15:28:50 <kendall> family phone  call just now
15:28:54 <Zakim> +??P44
15:29:09 <DanC_> roger, kendall
15:29:28 <Zakim> +PatH
15:29:42 <Zakim> +Kevin
15:30:38 <Zakim> +??P51
15:30:45 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P51 is DaveB
15:30:45 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
15:31:03 <howardk> howardk has joined #dawg
15:31:07 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
15:31:11 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, SteveH, DanC, AndyS, BryanT, HowardK, PatH, Kevin, DaveB
15:31:22 <alberto> alberto has joined #dawg
15:31:23 <Jeff>  Dan Connoly, Jean-François Baget, Stephen Harris, Andy Seaborne, Pat Hayes,  Bryan Thompson, Kevin Wilkinson, Howard Katz, Dave Beckett 
15:31:27 <Zakim> + +358.405.aaaa
15:31:51 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, SteveH, DanC, AndyS, BryanT, HowardK, PatH, Kevin, DaveB, JanneS
15:31:57 <rob> rob has joined #dawg
15:32:12 <rob> what's the number to call in?
15:32:18 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
15:32:22 <DaveB> +1.617.761.6200
15:32:25 <DanC_> Zakim, take up agendum 1
15:32:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review record, agenda, misc actions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0122.html" taken up [from DanC_]
15:32:28 <Jeff> Dan Connoly, Jean-François Baget, Stephen Harris, Andy Seaborne, Pat Hayes,  Bryan Thompson, Kevin Wilkinson, Howard Katz, Dave Beckett, Janne Saarela 
15:32:31 <DaveB> rob, then: code 7333
15:33:01 <Zakim> +[ASemantics]
15:33:41 <Zakim> +EricP
15:34:08 <Jeff> ACCEPTED: to accept Minutes of RDF DAWG telcon 2004-04-08 for review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0092.html
15:34:13 <DanC_> Zakim, next agendum
15:34:13 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Use Cases and Requirements document http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases" taken up [from DanC_]
15:34:13 <kendall> fwiw, i just pub'd a new version of uses cases doc, 1.18.
15:34:28 <Zakim> +RobS
15:35:58 <Zakim> +??P13
15:36:07 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
15:36:09 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P13 is JosD
15:36:09 <Zakim> +JosD; got it
15:36:14 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:36:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, SteveH, DanC, AndyS, BryanT, HowardK, PatH, Kevin, DaveB, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, [ASemantics], EricP, RobS, JosD
15:39:03 <Jeff> ACTION KendallC: best-effort update of UseCases by 15 or 16 April
15:39:13 <Jeff> "some progress, more text" come to the meeting with the document
15:40:15 <Jeff> CONTINUE
15:40:57 <DaveB> q+
15:40:58 <Jeff> More use cases? Still looking through the archives
15:41:11 <dirkx> dirkx has joined #dawg
15:41:34 <DanC_> ack daveb
15:42:17 <rob> Is there no interest in the OWL use case?
15:42:22 <Jeff> No exhaustive, use cases that I really like
15:42:24 <DanC_> q+ robs
15:43:31 <DanC_> ack robs
15:43:53 <Jeff> Normalize vocabulary for requirements
15:44:37 <Jeff> Rob: question about OWL use case [?]
15:45:14 <rob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0098.html
15:45:51 <DanC_> use case: finding employees by type (disjunction and OWL)
15:46:37 <Jeff> How to extend RDF with other W3C tech?
15:47:26 <Jeff> Danger: requirements linked to arbitrary examples
15:48:04 <ericP> q+ to say you can present coder use cases from the end-user perspective
15:48:13 <Jeff> Danger: requirements linked to arbitrary examples
15:48:44 <DanC_> ack ericp
15:48:44 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say you can present coder use cases from the end-user perspective
15:48:50 <Jeff> Interest: Real world Domains, tools for developpers
15:49:08 <howardk> .me asks how you can put yourself on the speaker queue.
15:49:14 <howardk> :-)
15:49:15 <DanC_> q+
15:49:24 <DanC_> q+ to blather on limitlessly
15:49:27 <thompsonbry> q+ to talk about use cases motivating protocol requirements
15:49:27 <DanC_> ack danc
15:49:28 <Zakim> DanC_, you wanted to blather on limitlessly
15:49:37 <ericP> q+ to demo q-
15:49:40 <ericP> q-
15:49:42 <rob> larger question: where is doc for Zakim?
15:49:44 <DanC_> ack thompsonbry
15:49:44 <Zakim> thompsonbry, you wanted to talk about use cases motivating protocol requirements
15:50:43 <SteveH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0095.html is a protocol usecase
15:51:00 <ericP> q+
15:51:48 <howardk> q+
15:52:49 <DanC_> ack ericp
15:53:02 <SteveH> limit, orderining usecase: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0096.html
15:53:42 <Jeff> protocol use cases vs query use cases
15:53:55 <DanC_> ack howardk
15:54:53 <Jeff> Eric P. When will the "prose" in documents be put in "real" RDF?
15:55:45 <Jeff> Initial RDF is fixed.
15:56:32 <Jeff> Document: RDF Graphs for a wide audience
15:57:12 <Jeff> Need Query against some triples
15:57:33 <ericP> if pictures like http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/OrderTracking-order1-img are useful, i can produce the efficiently
15:58:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; 1 port must be freed
15:58:15 <kendall> ericP: from  my writerly p.o.v., that diagram  is better than chunks of raw rdf-xml
15:58:22 <Jeff> Some people have done somethng about it, no group as a whole
15:58:37 <kendall> (and n3,  turtle are better  than rdf-xml too, but that's IMO)
15:59:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; 3 ports must be freed
15:59:31 <Zakim> -DanC
16:00:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end now; 1 port must be freed immediately
16:00:02 <Zakim> The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 1 port must be freed; disconnecting the most recent arrival
16:00:04 <Zakim> disconnecting JosD
16:00:05 <Zakim> -JosD
16:00:07 <Jeff> Meeting next week...
16:00:17 <DanC_> please stand by, jos
16:00:49 <Jeff> Diagrams, graphs vs raw RDF/XML
16:00:59 <Zakim> +DanC
16:01:09 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/OrderTracking-order1-img
16:01:25 <amybbl> amybbl has joined #dawg
16:01:38 <amybbl> hi
16:01:43 <amybbl> can I have Jos' number
16:01:50 <amybbl> redial doesn't work, I"m just getting the bridge
16:02:01 <DanC_> jos, pls give amy your number?
16:02:05 <DaveB> png http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/OrderTracking-order1-img.png
16:02:56 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/attributions/Reify1-img
16:03:42 <ericP> JOS!
16:04:45 <DanC_> SKEE-pol? really
16:04:59 <DanC_> evidently no.
16:05:06 <rob> any hotels still available?
16:05:15 <Jeff> Amsterdam meeting agenda
16:05:15 <Jeff>  see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1
16:05:15 <Jeff> Need info on how to go there
16:05:16 <DaveB> I was requesting address of location on http://dawg.asemantics.com/ 
16:05:21 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
16:05:21 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Amsterdam meeting agenda http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1" taken up [from DanC_]
16:06:34 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
16:07:15 <amybbl> ok
16:07:19 <kendall> The Golden Leeuw in The Hague
16:07:38 <Jeff> Also, listing of availables hotels
16:07:41 <howardk> q+ re the reading list
16:07:44 <Jeff> Logistics page?
16:07:58 <alberto> just log here questions about DAWF f2f meeting - I/dirk will take care of answering them - thanks
16:08:16 <DaveB> ah yeah, that link is to the member version not the published note
16:08:17 <alberto> s/DAWF/DAWG/
16:08:41 <DanC_> I cited http://www.w3.org/Submission/2003/SUBM-RDQL-20031030
16:08:51 <howardk> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-RDQL-20040109/
16:08:55 <DanC_> but I gather http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-RDQL-20040109/ is current
16:08:56 <DaveB> that's member private DanC
16:09:10 <DanC_> ok, I'll fix.
16:09:41 <amybbl> are you dialing?
16:09:46 <amybbl> I'm dialing you :)
16:09:48 <alberto> 1st f2f meeting logistics page is  http://dawg.asemantics.com/ 
16:09:51 <JosD> yes amy
16:09:52 <amybbl> that's why I'm getting a busy
16:09:59 <amybbl> ok, don't dial and I'll call you
16:10:18 <Zakim> +JosD
16:10:32 <amybbl> amybbl has left #dawg
16:11:07 <JosD> oops... Amy, it's now OK thanks :)
16:11:49 <Jeff> Titles of presentations
16:11:49 <Jeff> Strictly 10mn / pres
16:13:30 <Jeff> Eliminate crash course on RDQL?
16:15:29 <kendall> patH: i was born and raised on the gulf coast, so that sounds familiar. :>
16:15:49 <alberto> jeff - I guess we need to re-title the speech "crash course about RDQL..." to "RDQL implementation experience" or something
16:15:59 <thompsonbry> You can reach me at: 202/462-9888 for the crash presentation.
16:16:12 <Jeff> Know the number in advance for phone to the meeting
16:18:49 <DaveB> & future f2f schedule?
16:20:48 <Jeff> Proposals to host next F2Fs (date and airport)
16:20:54 <thompsonbry> We could host in Washington, DC.
16:21:15 <kendall> thompsonbry: ah, we could perhaps join resources for a DC meeting.
16:21:21 <thompsonbry> sure.
16:23:00 <thompsonbry> thompsonbry has left #dawg
16:23:06 <Zakim> -BryanT
16:23:12 <Zakim> -[ASemantics]
16:23:13 <Zakim> -PatH
16:23:14 <Zakim> -DaveB
16:23:15 <Zakim> -JanneS
16:23:16 <Zakim> -HowardK
16:23:17 <Zakim> -Kevin
16:23:18 <Zakim> -Jeff
16:23:18 <KevinW> KevinW has left #dawg
16:23:19 <Zakim> -DanC
16:23:19 <Zakim> -JosD
16:23:23 <Zakim> -RobS
16:23:29 <DaveB> hi
16:23:30 <Zakim> -SteveH
16:23:38 <alberto> alberto has left #dawg
16:23:54 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:24:17 <SteveH> SteveH has left #dawg
16:25:44 <Jeff> Jeff has left #dawg
16:36:18 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
16:36:19 <Zakim> -EricP
16:36:20 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:36:21 <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, Jeff, SteveH, AndyS, BryanT, HowardK, PatH, Kevin, DaveB, +358.405.aaaa, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, [ASemantics], EricP, RobS, JosD
16:36:28 <patH> patH has left #dawg
16:38:55 <ericP> kendall, The goal is met if the system fails to prove a proposition, or, in non-inferencing triple stores, fails to contain that proposition.
16:54:09 <DanC_> NAF. icky.
16:54:35 <DanC_> hmm... well, when the bounds are explicit, it can be ok.
17:04:06 <DanC_> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:07:38 <kendall> ericP: that seems fine to me
17:08:06 <ericP> i'll tweak other bits some and commit
17:08:32 <kendall> 'k
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