15:28:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
15:28:55 <DanC_> Zakim, take up item 1
15:28:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene, take roll, review agenda (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0061.html) and record" taken up [from DanC_]
15:29:00 <Zakim> +Tayeb
15:29:03 <kendall> just gave every CR an anchor so they could be GET'd
15:29:04 <Zakim> +DanC
15:29:21 <KevinW> KevinW has joined #dawg
15:29:33 <Zakim> +??P19
15:29:35 <Zakim> +RobS
15:29:49 <Zakim> +KendalC
15:29:50 <DaveB> Zakim, ??P19 is DaveB
15:29:50 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
15:30:08 <kendall> er... +KendallC, please :>
15:30:17 <Zakim> +Kevin
15:30:29 <thompsonbry> call in #is?
15:30:40 <alberto> alberto has joined #dawg
15:30:52 <DanC_> +1.617.761.6200
15:30:57 <Zakim> +EricP
15:30:57 <DanC_> Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 7333 ("RDFD")
15:31:29 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.604.885.aaaa, Tayeb, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendalC, Kevin, EricP
15:31:42 <kendall> how can I get Zakim to spell my name right?
15:31:51 <DanC_> Zakim, KendalC is KendallC
15:31:51 <Zakim> +KendallC; got it
15:31:55 <Zakim> +??P51
15:31:57 <DanC_> Zakim, aaaa is HowardK
15:31:57 <Zakim> +HowardK; got it
15:31:58 <Zakim> +BryanT
15:32:02 <kendall> thx
15:32:12 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P51 is AlbertoR
15:32:12 <Zakim> +AlbertoR; got it
15:32:16 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:32:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see HowardK, Tayeb, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendallC, Kevin, EricP, AlbertoR, BryanT
15:32:19 <Zakim> +??P48
15:32:31 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P48 is DirkC
15:32:31 <Zakim> +DirkC; got it
15:33:10 <DaveB> JF?
15:33:29 <DanC_> Zakim, Tayeb is temporarily Jean-FrancoisB
15:33:29 <Zakim> +Jean-FrancoisB; got it
15:33:33 <DanC_> Regrets: eikon
15:33:58 <DanC_> regrets: AndyS
15:35:24 <ericP> RESOLVED: accept last meeting records
15:35:40 <DanC_> agenda + XQuery part of charter
15:36:05 <Zakim> +PatrickS
15:36:24 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
15:36:24 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Amsterdam meeting agenda" taken up [from DanC_]
15:36:58 <ericP> danc: goals at top of fcs1 are relatively new
15:37:10 <kendall> s/fcs1/ftf1/
15:37:46 <ericP> danc: process constraint: do something every three months. due in May
15:38:42 <ericP> [danc reading from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1]
15:39:05 <ericP> [venue and hotel logistics[
15:39:50 <ericP> [danc back to reading from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1]
15:40:18 <ericP> danc: do we want a survey presentation? lightening talks? require reading?
15:40:32 <ericP> kendall: + lightening talks
15:41:16 <ericP> alberto: wants to discuss inkling, jenna, rdfstore. can give a short presentation
15:42:05 <ericP> danc: compressing to 5 or 10 minutes may not be sufficient
15:42:33 <ericP> kevin: if you do lightening talks, i'd still like a reading list for folks not attending
15:42:38 <alberto> talking about http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/summary.html
15:42:55 <Zakim> +JosD
15:43:04 <ericP> welcome jos
15:43:27 <Zakim> +PatH
15:44:18 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:44:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see HowardK, Jean-FrancoisB, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendallC, Kevin, EricP, AlbertoR, BryanT, DirkC, PatrickS, JosD, PatH
15:44:46 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
15:44:53 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
15:45:09 <ericP> howard: volunteer a lightening talk on XQuery contributions
15:45:24 <ericP> ... is strawman selection off the agenda?
15:45:53 <ericP> danc: when it pick technology is an art and i think "not yet"
15:46:16 <ericP> ... currently sniffing around for a candiate now. don't expect everyone to be educated on all the options yet.
15:46:50 <ericP> ... my thoughts are all on the page
15:47:22 <ericP> daveb: would like to hear alberto on query use cases
15:47:42 <ericP> ... WRT reading list, RDQL, ... ?
15:48:08 <ericP> danc: i'm serious about reading lists. folks MUST read the list.
15:48:17 <ericP> daveb: advocationg RDQL 'cause it's short
15:49:26 <ericP> rob: volunteer to give a talk about XQuery...
15:49:55 <ericP> ... is there something smaller than the XQuery spec?
15:49:56 <DaveB> familiar with Xquery?  that's 400-500pages of spec
15:50:16 <ericP> howard: no more pithy document came to mind
15:50:33 <kendall> ouch
15:50:36 <ericP> howard: suggesting that i talk about the (XQuery) language and operators
15:51:15 <ericP> rob: survey of exisitng langs at the end, and only for a few hours, worries be a bit re resolution
15:51:32 <ericP> Kendal: can give a lightening talk on Versa.
15:51:43 <ericP> ... reading list suggestions:
15:52:10 <ericP> ... - documents for joeseki protocol
15:52:28 <kendall> http://www.joseki.org/protocol.html
15:52:34 <ericP> ... RDF Query path language
15:52:40 <kendall> http://www.joseki.org/RDF_data_objects.html
15:52:45 <ericP> (was that a  the end, and only for a few hours, worries be a bit re resolution
15:52:51 <ericP> arg
15:53:02 <kendall> http://www.joseki.org/processors.html
15:53:12 <kendall> -- those are my 3 suggestions for reading list, ericP
15:53:17 <kendall> 3 bits of joseki docs
15:53:19 <ericP> Alberto: lightening talk on implementation for RDQL
15:54:01 <ericP> Bryan: won't be at amsterdam. interested in a critique on XQuery
15:54:06 <kendall> ericP: actually, i want to retract my offer to talk about versa. i'm gonna be too busy. :>
15:54:18 <ericP> kendall, roger
15:54:56 <ericP> ... would the XPointer framwork be a reasonable talk?
15:55:03 <ericP> DirkC: wont' attend
15:55:32 <ericP> Patrick: request telconf time to coincide with lightening talks and to have materials in advance
15:56:07 <ericP> dacn: ftf1 has the bridge overlapping the lightening talks.
15:56:42 <ericP> kendall: would like to hear a lightening talk on RDFQ
15:56:46 <thompsonbry> ericP: I was suggesting for the reading material, but a talk would also be interesting.
15:56:53 <ericP> roger
15:57:17 <ericP> jos: suggested reading: turtle, ntriples, n3, ericP's survey
15:57:37 <ericP> ...: not clear yet re lightening talks, maybe cwm or n3
15:57:52 <kendall> i'd like to hear daveb talk about turtle.
15:58:03 <kendall> not to put you on the spot, dajobe :>
15:58:17 <ericP> pat: should be aware of the DAML QL.
15:58:17 <DaveB> sure, but I'm just looking how many talks we're squeezing into ... 2-3:30
15:58:44 <ericP> ... would like talk on light-weight systems.
15:58:59 <ericP> ... these are places where folks have honed in on one or two useful things.
15:59:59 <ericP> ericP: offer a 20 minute talk on the survey
16:00:22 <ericP> talk popularity contest:
16:00:40 <ericP> howared on XQuery contributions: 5
16:00:43 <ericP> 6
16:01:10 <ericP> RDQL for reading list: 6-7
16:01:22 <ericP> 6.5E0
16:01:47 <ericP> Vera, kclark: 2
16:01:51 <DaveB> (versa)
16:02:10 <thompsonbry> +1
16:02:15 <ericP> joeseki protocol for reading: 6
16:02:42 <ericP> alberto RDQL imple experience: 2
16:02:45 <DaveB> +1 m, sneezing
16:02:50 <ericP> 3
16:03:30 <ericP> remote l-talk on expointer: 5
16:03:58 <ericP> reading list += turtle: 6
16:04:15 <ericP> reading list += nriples: 6
16:05:12 <ericP> reading list += n3 primer: 5 (patrick notes this could be required for turtle)
16:05:22 <kendall> yay
16:05:26 <ericP> eric's survey for reading list: 4
16:06:06 <ericP> kendal: including RDFQ and webarch
16:06:14 <thompsonbry> +1
16:06:15 <ericP> danc: i could do short to long
16:06:29 <ericP> l-talk on webarch: 5
16:06:53 <ericP> RDQL remote l-talk: 5
16:07:21 <ericP> DQL remote l-talk: 5
16:07:39 <ericP> phayes: will be phoning from columbia: iffy.
16:07:46 <ericP> survey for a talk: 0
16:08:01 <kendall> you lucky dawg! :>
16:08:04 <ericP> yo yo
16:08:25 <ericP> xquery to rdf by rob: 5
16:08:26 <ericP> 6
16:08:32 <DanC_> network inference experience with xquery
16:08:57 <rob> if we end up with too much, then maybe a web form for preferences...
16:09:18 <ericP> RESOLVED: meeting agenda fixed and mailed on monday
16:10:35 <ericP> 1800 chicago time
16:10:37 <howardk> Good start on an XQuery reading list: http://www.webreference.com/programming/xquery/
16:10:58 <howardk> This is the first few pages of Don Chamberlin's "XQuery from the Experts" chapter.
16:11:04 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
16:11:04 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Use cases and Requirements document" taken up [from DanC_]
16:11:07 <howardk> There's a longer excerpt somewhere if I can find it ...
16:11:35 <rob> what's the url for that doc?
16:11:44 <DanC_> $Id: 08-dawg-irc.txt,v 1.35 2004/04/08 21:31:58 swick Exp $ http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases
16:11:51 <DaveB> I see 1.3
16:11:59 <DanC_> $Id: 08-dawg-irc.txt,v 1.35 2004/04/08 21:31:58 swick Exp $
16:12:06 <ericP> ACTION EricP and KendallC: Update the use cases document with the candidate requirements in the minutes of 2004-04-01.
16:12:09 <ericP> DONE
16:13:36 <ericP> robs: where did the RDF XML come from?
16:14:01 <ericP> kendall: that's a duplicate
16:14:18 <ericP> RESOLVED: noone sees them as distinct
16:15:05 <DaveB> "that requirement" ?
16:15:08 <thompsonbry> Missed the requirement in question?
16:15:16 <rob> protocol independence
16:15:22 <ericP> patrick: i support "protocol independence" being added to the use cases
16:15:41 <ericP> danc: will use best guess. others help him be email.
16:16:14 <thompsonbry> er yuk.
16:18:40 <ericP> RESOLVED: deadline for use case document is thursday april 16th EOB EST.
16:19:08 <rob> anyone who wants to second one of my "boring" use cases please speak up.
16:19:15 <kendall> josd: i'll take a look at that
16:20:18 <ericP> RESOLVED: agenda frozen on wednesday (same time?)
16:21:49 <ericP> kendall: send me personal mail with your favorite use cases and bribe me with editorial markup
16:21:51 <DaveB> health care use case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0003.html
16:22:08 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
16:22:08 <Zakim> agendum 4. "XQuery part of charter" taken up [from DanC_]
16:22:28 <kendall> daveb: yes?
16:22:28 <JosD> DirkC "Healtcare: ordering an X-Ray"use case is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0003.html
16:22:35 <kendall> ah, thanks!
16:22:56 <ericP> danc: striclty speaking, charter discussion is out of order, but we all need to know why it's there.
16:23:14 <kendall> ah, i had "AprJan" instead of AprJun
16:23:16 <kendall> thx
16:23:33 <DanC_> "The working group should specify at least one mechanism for exposing RDF query facilities in an XQuery environment" -- http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter#XQueryBinding
16:24:12 <ericP> robs: we have implemented RDF query as a small extension for XQuery.
16:24:39 <ericP> ... it's a well designed QL. it would be idiotic to re-invent. one less lang for folks to learn.
16:25:32 <ericP> howard: what does the charter language mean?
16:26:20 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/11/13-RDF-Query-Rules/#XQueryFA
16:26:31 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/11/13-RDF-Query-Rules/#TreeHugger
16:26:56 <ericP> robs: there are no public documents describing the extensions to XQuery for RDF.
16:27:21 <ericP> ... can't publish this now as it's not a released product. maybe lightening talk.
16:28:17 <ericP> ... maybe we want two talk for XQuery (XQuery itself and delta to RDF QL) or just one if tight for time
16:28:28 <ericP> patrick: what's the impelementation burden?
16:28:49 <ericP> ... is that going to bite people.
16:29:01 <ericP> danc: i expect to find that out in the fullness time
16:29:24 <ericP> robs: i feel like QL prefs are distracting from us from use cases.
16:30:56 <ericP> robs: we mention derived graphs, but say inferencing is out of scope.
16:31:23 <ericP> ... shoule we come up with out-of-scope use cases showing where RDF QL fits in a bigger picture?
16:31:31 <ericP> danc: probably a good idea.
16:32:37 <ericP> bryan: what about 2.4, graph update facility?
16:32:57 <ericP> danc: if we want to do graph update, we have to go back to the AC
16:34:03 <ericP> bryan: so providing extensibility for this is in the charter, but solving the problem is not?
16:35:07 <ericP> zakime, take up next agendum
16:35:19 <DanC_> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:19 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
16:35:23 <DanC_> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:23 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
16:35:25 <DanC_> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:25 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DirkC
16:35:28 <ericP> agenda + next meeting
16:35:31 <DanC_> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jean-FrancoisB
16:35:55 <ericP> next meeting, same dawg time, same dawg channel
16:36:10 <ericP> scribe Jean-Francois
16:36:12 <Zakim> -KendallC
16:36:12 <thompsonbry> thompsonbry has left #dawg
16:36:13 <Zakim> -JosD
16:36:14 <Zakim> -Jean-FrancoisB
16:36:15 <Zakim> -PatH
16:36:16 <Zakim> -AlbertoR
16:36:17 <Zakim> -Kevin
16:36:18 <Zakim> -HowardK
16:36:19 <Zakim> -BryanT
16:36:21 <Zakim> -RobS
16:36:21 <KevinW> KevinW has left #dawg
16:36:26 <Zakim> -DirkC
16:36:30 <patH> ?
16:36:32 <Zakim> -DaveB
16:36:35 <Zakim> -PatrickS
16:36:36 <alberto> alberto has left #dawg
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16:53:16 <rob> quit
16:53:33 <rob> sorry; not an order; just a typo
17:10:22 <Zakim> -DanC
17:10:23 <Zakim> -EricP
17:10:24 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()11:30AM has ended
17:10:25 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.604.885.aaaa, DanC, RobS, DaveB, Kevin, EricP, KendallC, HowardK, BryanT, AlbertoR, DirkC, Jean-FrancoisB, PatrickS, JosD, PatH
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