IRC log of dawg on 2004-04-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:28:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
15:28:55 [DanC_]
Zakim, take up item 1
15:28:55 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "convene, take roll, review agenda (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0061.html) and record" taken up [from DanC_]
15:29:00 [Zakim]
+Tayeb
15:29:03 [kendall]
just gave every CR an anchor so they could be GET'd
15:29:04 [Zakim]
+DanC
15:29:21 [KevinW]
KevinW has joined #dawg
15:29:33 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:29:35 [Zakim]
+RobS
15:29:49 [Zakim]
+KendalC
15:29:50 [DaveB]
Zakim, ??P19 is DaveB
15:29:50 [Zakim]
+DaveB; got it
15:30:08 [kendall]
er... +KendallC, please :>
15:30:17 [Zakim]
+Kevin
15:30:29 [thompsonbry]
call in #is?
15:30:40 [alberto]
alberto has joined #dawg
15:30:52 [DanC_]
+1.617.761.6200
15:30:57 [Zakim]
+EricP
15:30:57 [DanC_]
Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 7333 ("RDFD")
15:31:29 [DanC_]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.604.885.aaaa, Tayeb, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendalC, Kevin, EricP
15:31:42 [kendall]
how can I get Zakim to spell my name right?
15:31:51 [DanC_]
Zakim, KendalC is KendallC
15:31:51 [Zakim]
+KendallC; got it
15:31:55 [Zakim]
+??P51
15:31:57 [DanC_]
Zakim, aaaa is HowardK
15:31:57 [Zakim]
+HowardK; got it
15:31:58 [Zakim]
+BryanT
15:32:02 [kendall]
thx
15:32:12 [DanC_]
Zakim, ??P51 is AlbertoR
15:32:12 [Zakim]
+AlbertoR; got it
15:32:16 [DanC_]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:32:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see HowardK, Tayeb, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendallC, Kevin, EricP, AlbertoR, BryanT
15:32:19 [Zakim]
+??P48
15:32:31 [DanC_]
Zakim, ??P48 is DirkC
15:32:31 [Zakim]
+DirkC; got it
15:33:10 [DaveB]
JF?
15:33:29 [DanC_]
Zakim, Tayeb is temporarily Jean-FrancoisB
15:33:29 [Zakim]
+Jean-FrancoisB; got it
15:33:33 [DanC_]
Regrets: eikon
15:33:58 [DanC_]
regrets: AndyS
15:35:24 [ericP]
RESOLVED: accept last meeting records
15:35:40 [DanC_]
agenda + XQuery part of charter
15:36:05 [Zakim]
+PatrickS
15:36:24 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
15:36:24 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Amsterdam meeting agenda" taken up [from DanC_]
15:36:58 [ericP]
danc: goals at top of fcs1 are relatively new
15:37:10 [kendall]
s/fcs1/ftf1/
15:37:46 [ericP]
danc: process constraint: do something every three months. due in May
15:38:42 [ericP]
[danc reading from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1]
15:39:05 [ericP]
[venue and hotel logistics[
15:39:50 [ericP]
[danc back to reading from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf1]
15:40:18 [ericP]
danc: do we want a survey presentation? lightening talks? require reading?
15:40:32 [ericP]
kendall: + lightening talks
15:41:16 [ericP]
alberto: wants to discuss inkling, jenna, rdfstore. can give a short presentation
15:42:05 [ericP]
danc: compressing to 5 or 10 minutes may not be sufficient
15:42:33 [ericP]
kevin: if you do lightening talks, i'd still like a reading list for folks not attending
15:42:38 [alberto]
talking about http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/summary.html
15:42:55 [Zakim]
+JosD
15:43:04 [ericP]
welcome jos
15:43:27 [Zakim]
+PatH
15:44:18 [DanC_]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:44:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see HowardK, Jean-FrancoisB, DanC, DaveB, RobS, KendallC, Kevin, EricP, AlbertoR, BryanT, DirkC, PatrickS, JosD, PatH
15:44:46 [patH]
patH has joined #dawg
15:44:53 [JosD]
JosD has joined #dawg
15:45:09 [ericP]
howard: volunteer a lightening talk on XQuery contributions
15:45:24 [ericP]
... is strawman selection off the agenda?
15:45:53 [ericP]
danc: when it pick technology is an art and i think "not yet"
15:46:16 [ericP]
... currently sniffing around for a candiate now. don't expect everyone to be educated on all the options yet.
15:46:50 [ericP]
... my thoughts are all on the page
15:47:22 [ericP]
daveb: would like to hear alberto on query use cases
15:47:42 [ericP]
... WRT reading list, RDQL, ... ?
15:48:08 [ericP]
danc: i'm serious about reading lists. folks MUST read the list.
15:48:17 [ericP]
daveb: advocationg RDQL 'cause it's short
15:49:26 [ericP]
rob: volunteer to give a talk about XQuery...
15:49:55 [ericP]
... is there something smaller than the XQuery spec?
15:49:56 [DaveB]
familiar with Xquery? that's 400-500pages of spec
15:50:16 [ericP]
howard: no more pithy document came to mind
15:50:33 [kendall]
ouch
15:50:36 [ericP]
howard: suggesting that i talk about the (XQuery) language and operators
15:51:15 [ericP]
rob: survey of exisitng langs at the end, and only for a few hours, worries be a bit re resolution
15:51:32 [ericP]
Kendal: can give a lightening talk on Versa.
15:51:43 [ericP]
... reading list suggestions:
15:52:10 [ericP]
... - documents for joeseki protocol
15:52:28 [kendall]
http://www.joseki.org/protocol.html
15:52:34 [ericP]
... RDF Query path language
15:52:40 [kendall]
http://www.joseki.org/RDF_data_objects.html
15:52:45 [ericP]
(was that a the end, and only for a few hours, worries be a bit re resolution
15:52:51 [ericP]
arg
15:53:02 [kendall]
http://www.joseki.org/processors.html
15:53:12 [kendall]
-- those are my 3 suggestions for reading list, ericP
15:53:17 [kendall]
3 bits of joseki docs
15:53:19 [ericP]
Alberto: lightening talk on implementation for RDQL
15:54:01 [ericP]
Bryan: won't be at amsterdam. interested in a critique on XQuery
15:54:06 [kendall]
ericP: actually, i want to retract my offer to talk about versa. i'm gonna be too busy. :>
15:54:18 [ericP]
kendall, roger
15:54:56 [ericP]
... would the XPointer framwork be a reasonable talk?
15:55:03 [ericP]
DirkC: wont' attend
15:55:32 [ericP]
Patrick: request telconf time to coincide with lightening talks and to have materials in advance
15:56:07 [ericP]
dacn: ftf1 has the bridge overlapping the lightening talks.
15:56:42 [ericP]
kendall: would like to hear a lightening talk on RDFQ
15:56:46 [thompsonbry]
ericP: I was suggesting for the reading material, but a talk would also be interesting.
15:56:53 [ericP]
roger
15:57:17 [ericP]
jos: suggested reading: turtle, ntriples, n3, ericP's survey
15:57:37 [ericP]
...: not clear yet re lightening talks, maybe cwm or n3
15:57:52 [kendall]
i'd like to hear daveb talk about turtle.
15:58:03 [kendall]
not to put you on the spot, dajobe :>
15:58:17 [ericP]
pat: should be aware of the DAML QL.
15:58:17 [DaveB]
sure, but I'm just looking how many talks we're squeezing into ... 2-3:30
15:58:44 [ericP]
... would like talk on light-weight systems.
15:58:59 [ericP]
... these are places where folks have honed in on one or two useful things.
15:59:59 [ericP]
ericP: offer a 20 minute talk on the survey
16:00:22 [ericP]
talk popularity contest:
16:00:40 [ericP]
howared on XQuery contributions: 5
16:00:43 [ericP]
6
16:01:10 [ericP]
RDQL for reading list: 6-7
16:01:22 [ericP]
6.5E0
16:01:47 [ericP]
Vera, kclark: 2
16:01:51 [DaveB]
(versa)
16:02:10 [thompsonbry]
+1
16:02:15 [ericP]
joeseki protocol for reading: 6
16:02:42 [ericP]
alberto RDQL imple experience: 2
16:02:45 [DaveB]
+1 m, sneezing
16:02:50 [ericP]
3
16:03:30 [ericP]
remote l-talk on expointer: 5
16:03:58 [ericP]
reading list += turtle: 6
16:04:15 [ericP]
reading list += nriples: 6
16:05:12 [ericP]
reading list += n3 primer: 5 (patrick notes this could be required for turtle)
16:05:22 [kendall]
yay
16:05:26 [ericP]
eric's survey for reading list: 4
16:06:06 [ericP]
kendal: including RDFQ and webarch
16:06:14 [thompsonbry]
+1
16:06:15 [ericP]
danc: i could do short to long
16:06:29 [ericP]
l-talk on webarch: 5
16:06:53 [ericP]
RDQL remote l-talk: 5
16:07:21 [ericP]
DQL remote l-talk: 5
16:07:39 [ericP]
phayes: will be phoning from columbia: iffy.
16:07:46 [ericP]
survey for a talk: 0
16:08:01 [kendall]
you lucky dawg! :>
16:08:04 [ericP]
yo yo
16:08:25 [ericP]
xquery to rdf by rob: 5
16:08:26 [ericP]
6
16:08:32 [DanC_]
network inference experience with xquery
16:08:57 [rob]
if we end up with too much, then maybe a web form for preferences...
16:09:18 [ericP]
RESOLVED: meeting agenda fixed and mailed on monday
16:10:35 [ericP]
1800 chicago time
16:10:37 [howardk]
Good start on an XQuery reading list: http://www.webreference.com/programming/xquery/
16:10:58 [howardk]
This is the first few pages of Don Chamberlin's "XQuery from the Experts" chapter.
16:11:04 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
16:11:04 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Use cases and Requirements document" taken up [from DanC_]
16:11:07 [howardk]
There's a longer excerpt somewhere if I can find it ...
16:11:35 [rob]
what's the url for that doc?
16:11:44 [DanC_]
$Id: UseCases.html,v 1.2 2004/04/08 15:16:44 kclark Exp $ http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases
16:11:51 [DaveB]
I see 1.3
16:11:59 [DanC_]
$Id: UseCases.html,v 1.3 2004/04/08 15:34:59 kclark Exp $
16:12:06 [ericP]
ACTION EricP and KendallC: Update the use cases document with the candidate requirements in the minutes of 2004-04-01.
16:12:09 [ericP]
DONE
16:13:36 [ericP]
robs: where did the RDF XML come from?
16:14:01 [ericP]
kendall: that's a duplicate
16:14:18 [ericP]
RESOLVED: noone sees them as distinct
16:15:05 [DaveB]
"that requirement" ?
16:15:08 [thompsonbry]
Missed the requirement in question?
16:15:16 [rob]
protocol independence
16:15:22 [ericP]
patrick: i support "protocol independence" being added to the use cases
16:15:41 [ericP]
danc: will use best guess. others help him be email.
16:16:14 [thompsonbry]
er yuk.
16:18:40 [ericP]
RESOLVED: deadline for use case document is thursday april 16th EOB EST.
16:19:08 [rob]
anyone who wants to second one of my "boring" use cases please speak up.
16:19:15 [kendall]
josd: i'll take a look at that
16:20:18 [ericP]
RESOLVED: agenda frozen on wednesday (same time?)
16:21:49 [ericP]
kendall: send me personal mail with your favorite use cases and bribe me with editorial markup
16:21:51 [DaveB]
health care use case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0003.html
16:22:08 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
16:22:08 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "XQuery part of charter" taken up [from DanC_]
16:22:28 [kendall]
daveb: yes?
16:22:28 [JosD]
DirkC "Healtcare: ordering an X-Ray"use case is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0003.html
16:22:35 [kendall]
ah, thanks!
16:22:56 [ericP]
danc: striclty speaking, charter discussion is out of order, but we all need to know why it's there.
16:23:14 [kendall]
ah, i had "AprJan" instead of AprJun
16:23:16 [kendall]
thx
16:23:33 [DanC_]
"The working group should specify at least one mechanism for exposing RDF query facilities in an XQuery environment" -- http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter#XQueryBinding
16:24:12 [ericP]
robs: we have implemented RDF query as a small extension for XQuery.
16:24:39 [ericP]
... it's a well designed QL. it would be idiotic to re-invent. one less lang for folks to learn.
16:25:32 [ericP]
howard: what does the charter language mean?
16:26:20 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/11/13-RDF-Query-Rules/#XQueryFA
16:26:31 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/11/13-RDF-Query-Rules/#TreeHugger
16:26:56 [ericP]
robs: there are no public documents describing the extensions to XQuery for RDF.
16:27:21 [ericP]
... can't publish this now as it's not a released product. maybe lightening talk.
16:28:17 [ericP]
... maybe we want two talk for XQuery (XQuery itself and delta to RDF QL) or just one if tight for time
16:28:28 [ericP]
patrick: what's the impelementation burden?
16:28:49 [ericP]
... is that going to bite people.
16:29:01 [ericP]
danc: i expect to find that out in the fullness time
16:29:24 [ericP]
robs: i feel like QL prefs are distracting from us from use cases.
16:30:56 [ericP]
robs: we mention derived graphs, but say inferencing is out of scope.
16:31:23 [ericP]
... shoule we come up with out-of-scope use cases showing where RDF QL fits in a bigger picture?
16:31:31 [ericP]
danc: probably a good idea.
16:32:37 [ericP]
bryan: what about 2.4, graph update facility?
16:32:57 [ericP]
danc: if we want to do graph update, we have to go back to the AC
16:34:03 [ericP]
bryan: so providing extensibility for this is in the charter, but solving the problem is not?
16:35:07 [ericP]
zakime, take up next agendum
16:35:19 [DanC_]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:19 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
16:35:23 [DanC_]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:23 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
16:35:25 [DanC_]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:25 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DirkC
16:35:28 [ericP]
agenda + next meeting
16:35:31 [DanC_]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:35:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jean-FrancoisB
16:35:55 [ericP]
next meeting, same dawg time, same dawg channel
16:36:10 [ericP]
scribe Jean-Francois
16:36:12 [Zakim]
-KendallC
16:36:12 [thompsonbry]
thompsonbry has left #dawg
16:36:13 [Zakim]
-JosD
16:36:14 [Zakim]
-Jean-FrancoisB
16:36:15 [Zakim]
-PatH
16:36:16 [Zakim]
-AlbertoR
16:36:17 [Zakim]
-Kevin
16:36:18 [Zakim]
-HowardK
16:36:19 [Zakim]
-BryanT
16:36:21 [Zakim]
-RobS
16:36:21 [KevinW]
KevinW has left #dawg
16:36:26 [Zakim]
-DirkC
16:36:30 [patH]
?
16:36:32 [Zakim]
-DaveB
16:36:35 [Zakim]
-PatrickS
16:36:36 [alberto]
alberto has left #dawg
16:49:57 [howardk]
howardk has left #dawg
16:53:16 [rob]
quit
16:53:33 [rob]
sorry; not an order; just a typo
17:10:22 [Zakim]
-DanC
17:10:23 [Zakim]
-EricP
17:10:24 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()11:30AM has ended
17:10:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.604.885.aaaa, DanC, RobS, DaveB, Kevin, EricP, KendallC, HowardK, BryanT, AlbertoR, DirkC, Jean-FrancoisB, PatrickS, JosD, PatH
19:39:59 [eikeon]
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20:22:28 [Zakim]
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21:29:58 [ericP]
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