IRC log of swbp on 2004-04-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:59:11 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swbp

17:59:18 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #swbp

17:59:22 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be swbpd

17:59:22 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, Ralph

17:59:24 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be swbp

17:59:24 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute

17:59:56 [Ralph]

Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG

18:00:39 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0209.html agenda

18:00:41 [jacco]

hi ralph, before i forget, could you add Frank.Nack@cwi.nl to the mailing list? thanks

18:00:51 [Ralph]

sure

18:00:54 [Tbaker]

Tbaker has joined #swbp

18:01:27 [jjc]

jjc has joined #swbp

18:02:00 [Ralph]

zakim, this is sw_bpd

18:02:02 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; that matches SW_BPD()1:00PM

18:02:09 [Ralph]

zakim, who's on the call?

18:02:16 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Ivan, ??P3, [UMD], Guus_Schreiber, ??P2, +33.4.92.94.aaaa, ??P8, Ralph

18:02:40 [Zakim]

+DanBri

18:02:46 [danbri]

zakim, danbri is temporarily Bristol

18:02:48 [Zakim]

+Jeremy

18:02:54 [Zakim]

+Pat_Hayes

18:02:54 [jjc]

Zakim, who's on the call

18:03:00 [Zakim]

+Bristol; got it

18:03:00 [Guus]

zakim, ??p2 Marco

18:03:01 [danbri]

zakim, bristol holds danbri

18:03:02 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who's on the call', jjc

18:03:04 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??p2 Marco', Guus

18:03:05 [jjc]

Zakim, who's on the call?

18:03:06 [Zakim]

+danbri; got it

18:03:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Ivan, ??P3, [UMD], Guus_Schreiber, ??P2, +33.4.92.94.aaaa, ??P8, Ralph, Bristol, Jeremy (muted), Pat_Hayes

18:03:10 [danbri]

zakim, bristol holds libby

18:03:15 [Zakim]

Bristol has danbri

18:03:17 [bwm]

bwm has joined #swbp

18:03:19 [Zakim]

+libby; got it

18:03:23 [Guus]

zakim ??p2 is Marco

18:03:33 [jjc]

Zakim, Jeremy is jjc

18:03:33 [Zakim]

+jjc; got it

18:03:37 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p2 is probably Marco

18:03:39 [Zakim]

+Marco?; got it

18:03:42 [Zakim]

+??P18

18:03:46 [Natasha]

Natasha has joined #swbp

18:03:52 [Ralph]

Frank added, Jacco

18:03:58 [jacco]

thanks!

18:04:02 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p18 is Natasha

18:04:04 [Guus]

zakim, ??p18

18:04:04 [Zakim]

+Natasha; got it

18:04:07 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??p18', Guus

18:04:32 [Zakim]

+Brian_McBride

18:05:20 [Ralph]

+Alistair Miles

18:05:45 [Guus]

zakim, Ivan is Jacco

18:05:45 [Zakim]

+Jacco; got it

18:05:51 [Ralph]

zakim, umd has Aditya

18:05:51 [Zakim]

sorry, Ralph, I do not recognize a party named 'umd'

18:06:01 [Ralph]

zakim, [umd] has Aditya

18:06:01 [Zakim]

+Aditya; got it

18:06:37 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.723.aabb

18:06:51 [Ralph]

zakim, aabb is Deb

18:06:51 [Zakim]

+Deb; got it

18:07:35 [Tbaker]

Zakim doesn't see me?

18:07:36 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p8 is Tom_Baker

18:07:36 [Zakim]

+Tom_Baker; got it

18:08:35 [dlm]

danbri - i just looked at the irc - i do not know how to "share the op powers"

18:08:42 [Tbaker]

Hi libby!

18:08:44 [dlm]

if you tell me what to type i will type it

18:08:47 [Zakim]

+JosD

18:09:10 [bwm_]

bwm_ has joined #swbp

18:09:19 [JosD]

JosD has joined #swbp

18:09:23 [Ralph]

zakim, marco is really Alistair

18:09:23 [Zakim]

+Alistair; got it

18:09:31 [Tbaker]

I posted an Introduction 20 minutes ago

18:09:46 [danbri]

zakim, mute bristol

18:09:46 [Zakim]

Bristol should now be muted

18:09:48 [Zakim]

+Jen_Golbeck

18:09:50 [Ralph]

zakim, +33.4.92.94.aaaa is Marco

18:09:50 [Zakim]

+Marco; got it

18:10:28 [Ralph]

Scribe: Ralph

18:10:58 [Ralph]

Ralph has changed the topic to: SWBPD 1-April Telecon agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0209.html

18:11:07 [Ralph]

Regrets: Jim H, Jeremy, Bernard

18:11:22 [jjc]

(not regrets from me)

18:11:31 [Ralph]

unregrets Jeremy, sorry

18:11:48 [Ralph]

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Cannes kickoff ftf:

18:11:48 [Ralph]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0100.html

18:12:01 [danbri]

zakim, unmute danbri

18:12:01 [Zakim]

sorry, danbri, I do not see a party named 'danbri'

18:12:04 [danbri]

zakim, unmute bristol

18:12:04 [Zakim]

Bristol should no longer be muted

18:12:11 [Ralph]

Jeremy: action from DanBri was completed

18:12:25 [danbri]

(it was consultation of the SW CG re Note vs WD)

18:12:55 [Ralph]

ACTION DanBri ask SemWeb CG about constraints and advice re WD, Note, etc.

18:12:58 [Ralph]

-- completed

18:13:12 [Ralph]

RESOLVED: minutes accepted with correction

18:14:01 [Ralph]

Topic: Admin

18:14:25 [Ralph]

PROPOSED date & time for next telecon 15 April 1400 UTC

18:14:51 [Ralph]

Pat: this time clashes with Data Access WG

18:15:07 [golbeck]

golbeck has joined #swbp

18:15:41 [Ralph]

Jeremy: US West coast is under-represented on the call now

18:15:58 [ocorcho]

ocorcho has joined #swbp

18:15:59 [jjc]

No - japan is underrepresented

18:16:42 [Ralph]

s/US West coast/Japan/

18:17:36 [Ralph]

WITHDRAWN proposal for 1400 UTC on 15 April

18:18:38 [Ralph]

PROPOSED date & time for next telecon 15 April 1400 UTC

18:19:02 [Ralph]

... and Ralph will get working on his action to get straw poll done

18:19:24 [Ralph]

RESOLVED date & time for next telecon 15 April 1400 UTC

18:19:46 [Ralph]

ACTION Ralph talk with Guus and create a straw poll form for meeting times

18:19:51 [Ralph]

continued; to be done in next 7 days

18:20:00 [Ralph]

ACTION Guus to propose a format for TF description

18:20:07 [Ralph]

completed; on today's agenda

18:20:25 [Ralph]

ACTION JimH write description of WorldView TF

18:20:35 [Ralph]

completed

18:20:45 [Ralph]

ACTION ChrisW write description of OPEN TF

18:20:47 [Ralph]

continued

18:20:54 [Ralph]

ACTION aldo describe Wordnet TF

18:20:55 [Ralph]

completed

18:20:59 [Ralph]

ACTION danbri get rdf-thes contacts from Guus

18:21:00 [Ralph]

completed

18:21:10 [bwm_]

action to *get* contacts from Guus is not complete if Guus has not responded

18:21:11 [danbri]

(re RDF thes TF: I started a page http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/mission , working on it...)

18:21:15 [Ralph]

ACTION aldo e-mail WordNet update to mailing list

18:21:26 [Ralph]

completed

18:21:30 [Ralph]

ACTION guus read bernard's e-mail with draft TMAP msg

18:21:31 [Ralph]

continued

18:21:36 [Ralph]

ACTION guus to finalize TMAP e-mail, notify cg, and send out msg

18:21:44 [Ralph]

continued

18:22:31 [Ralph]

CG asked that the message include explicit language that this was not yet a formal request for liaison

18:24:07 [Ralph]

Jeremy: is it possible to have a representative from the ISO TC on our Task Force without it being a formal liaison?

18:24:41 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

18:24:43 [Ralph]

Ralph: my opinion is that yes, it is possible for the Task Force to include ISO TC members without it being a formal liaison

18:24:43 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

18:25:08 [Ralph]

ACTION danC to send mail requesting feedback on RDF/XHTML & GRDDL to both lists

18:25:09 [Ralph]

completed

18:25:16 [Ralph]

ACTION DanBri investigate publication of Turtle as SWIG note

18:25:17 [Ralph]

continued

18:25:21 [Ralph]

ACTION ChrisW present his time ontology in the next telecon

18:25:23 [Ralph]

continued

18:25:58 [Ralph]

Guus: IBM has charter questions, it will take some time for Chris to formally be a participant

18:25:59 [aldoG]

aldoG has joined #Swbp

18:26:05 [Ralph]

ACTION DanBri ask SemWeb CG about constraints and advice re WD, Note, etc.

18:26:07 [Ralph]

completed

18:26:26 [Ralph]

Topic: Task Force Template

18:26:46 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0208.html draft task-force template [Guus 2004-03-31]

18:27:18 [Ralph]

DanBri: I have already started to wrap this in HTML for the WordNet TF

18:27:35 [danbri]

(it looks good btw, thanks)

18:27:39 [Ralph]

RESOLVED: template accepted

18:27:54 [Ralph]

Topic: Application and Demo TF

18:28:11 [aldoG]

well done Dan

18:28:21 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0133.html On a possible role for the applications and demos task force [Brian, 2004-03-25]

18:28:33 [Ralph]

Brian: my objective was to start some discussion

18:29:01 [Ralph]

... hoped this TF might act like previous Test Cases task forces

18:29:48 [Ralph]

Jos: test cases have my support

18:30:45 [DeborahM]

DeborahM has joined #swbp

18:31:05 [Ralph]

Guus: reaction from Knowledge Web perspective?

18:31:11 [Ralph]

Marco: too early to say

18:32:11 [Ralph]

... need a more clear definition before starting work; there are many topics from which to select

18:33:05 [Ralph]

Libby: I support the idea of showing code fragments

18:33:46 [Ralph]

Guus: would FOAF fit here?

18:33:50 [Ralph]

Libby: yes, possibly

18:34:08 [bwm_]

pat makes a good point

18:34:15 [Ralph]

Pat: the analogy with code is misleading; code does what it does, whereas ontologies do more

18:34:24 [jjc]

The Semantic Web should not be used for nuclear power stations ???

18:34:40 [danbri]

q+ to give an example (rss code snippet) http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/bwm/rdf/jena/rssinjena.htm was very handy

18:35:14 [Ralph]

Brian: important to have other task forces should sign up to provide illustrations

18:35:51 [Ralph]

Brian: while I floated the idea, I'm not yet signing up to coordinate the TF

18:35:56 [danbri]

q-

18:36:31 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

18:36:31 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

18:36:51 [Ralph]

David: also support this, but also will have to limit my participation

18:37:16 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I am happy to sign up for XML Schema TF

18:37:41 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

18:37:41 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

18:37:42 [Ralph]

Guus: I expect to sign up for Porting TF

18:38:06 [Ralph]

Libby: I am willing will to help coordinate ADTF for a while

18:39:05 [Ralph]

Brian: willing to help Libby flesh out a proposal

18:40:14 [Ralph]

zakim, Bristol also holds DanBri

18:40:14 [Zakim]

+DanBri; got it

18:40:25 [bwm_]

q+ to ask be excused

18:40:32 [Ralph]

Topic: World TF

18:40:51 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0143.html "World" TF description (informal) [JimH, 2004-03-25]

18:41:11 [Ralph]

Guus: first note is intended to be more business cases

18:41:23 [Ralph]

... second note is intended to help those who are confused in where to start

18:42:28 [Ralph]

Pat: I expect to be involved in this task force

18:43:10 [Ralph]

... I worry that the first note might have too much "drum beating" and not enough "practice"; that it might turn into an advertisement

18:43:22 [Ralph]

Guus: expect the document to be short; a maximum of 5 pages

18:44:09 [Ralph]

Mike: read Jim's summary, looks OK to me

18:44:20 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

18:44:20 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

18:44:22 [Ralph]

Deb: I also volunteered to Jim that I would help on this

18:44:32 [Ralph]

DavidN: I would especially like to help with the first document

18:45:19 [Ralph]

Pat: might be good to have more representation from others in the WG who have different views

18:45:38 [Ralph]

Jeremy: document 2 needs participation from the DL community

18:46:21 [Ralph]

Mike: I think I can represent the business perspective

18:46:32 [Ralph]

Deb: I consult with some startup companies and can represent the startup perspective

18:47:10 [Ralph]

David: we know something about the business perspective also

18:48:03 [Ralph]

Jos: happy to review, but won't be able to participate in this task force

18:48:15 [Ralph]

Jeremy: will also review

18:50:00 [Ralph]

Marco: France Telecom would like feedback

18:50:25 [Ralph]

... we are willing to try out a draft document within FT

18:51:20 [Ralph]

Topic: WordNet Task Force

18:51:41 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004JanMar/0114.html WordNet Task Force - work outline [Also 2004-03-23]

18:52:08 [Ralph]

Guus: see Aldo's recent msg http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Apr/0017.html

18:52:23 [Ralph]

... Aldo presents an important option

18:52:42 [Ralph]

... 2 choices of representation

18:53:07 [Ralph]

... (1) take the principal representation as-is and create an RDF Schema for it, without adding features

18:53:35 [Ralph]

... (2) do a translation and introduce some RDF constructs

18:53:45 [aldoG]

Above all, (1) does not try to "interpret" the original Wordnet schema in terms of ontologies

18:53:45 [Ralph]

DanBri: my translation only took the nouns

18:54:09 [Ralph]

... this allows markup that looks nice

18:54:25 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

18:54:25 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

18:54:34 [aldoG]

(2) tries a mapping from the original schema to ontology data types (classes, individuals, properties, subClass, etc.)

18:54:52 [Ralph]

Guus: my personal opinion is that in principal if there is a representation we should translate it as literally as possible and leave interpretation to the user

18:54:57 [bwm_]

+1 to guus

18:55:06 [Ralph]

Pat: this issue is broader than just WordNet

18:55:22 [aldoG]

I agree with Pat: it applies also to thesauri

18:55:23 [danbri]

q+ to mention language in the new draft [THES] tf

18:55:37 [bwm_]

q-

18:55:49 [Ralph]

Pat: agree with a translation that takes everything as an individual and makes the fewest assumptions

18:56:19 [libby]

q+

18:56:32 [Zakim]

danbri, you wanted to mention language in the new draft [THES] tf

18:56:39 [aldoG]

the problem with (1) is that we actually renounce to derive useful ontologies from wordnets and thesauri, which is the current trend of research in both academic and industrial/organization contexts

18:57:08 [Ralph]

Libby: we followed the simple approach in calendaring

18:58:10 [Ralph]

Ralph: agree with starting simple

18:58:20 [Ralph]

... can we get participation from Princeton?

18:58:23 [aldoG]

(2) is not necessarily "complex". For instance, Dan Brickley has ported (a part of) WordNet using (2)

18:58:39 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

18:58:39 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

18:58:41 [Ralph]

ACTION: Guus ask Aldo if someone from Princeton is willing to participate

18:58:43 [danbri]

From http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/mission (just drafted), "Document strategies for representing Thesaurus-like content using RDF/OWL --- Produce guidelines for transforming an existing thesaurus (or classification system, or similar concept-based taxonomy) into an RDF/OWL representation. Guidelines should describe strategies for converting into an RDF representation of thesaurus-like structures, as well as strategies for re-describing in RDF/OWL the conten

18:58:43 [danbri]

t originally conveyed in the Thesaurus."

18:58:55 [danbri]

q?

18:58:57 [Ralph]

Pat: others have done major work on aligning Cyc with WordNet too

18:59:16 [aldoG]

Christiane Fellbaum is interested in following the work, but she cannot ensure a lot of attention

18:59:28 [Ralph]

[Jeremy reads Aldo's irc comment to the telecon]

18:59:53 [Ralph]

Guus: I don't agree with Aldo's "the problem with (1)..." -- these can be added later

19:00:07 [aldoG]

CYC2WN, as well as Sensus, SUMO2WN and DOLCE2WN (OntoWordNet), follow approach (2)

19:00:18 [Ralph]

Pat: re Aldo's (2), there are tradeoffs

19:00:58 [aldoG]

In fact in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Apr/0017.html I propose to deliver (1), which is almost ready, and then move to (2)

19:01:18 [Ralph]

Jeremy: it is plausible to do this in two phases

19:01:45 [aditya]

aditya has joined #swbp

19:02:05 [Ralph]

Guus: re Christiane Fellbaum; if she could nod agreement that would be nice

19:02:26 [Tbaker]

Tbaker has joined #swbp

19:02:30 [Ralph]

... and even make the TF work part of their distribution

19:02:33 [aldoG]

Yes, I agreed with Jeremy (I have even proposed 3 phases, since (2) can be done in a 'simple', or in an "enriched" mode)

19:03:08 [danbri]

q+ re versioning experience

19:03:14 [Ralph]

Brian: a key test of commitment from the WordNet folk is maintenance as WordNet changes

19:03:15 [danbri]

q+ to feedback re versioning experience

19:03:15 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

19:03:18 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

19:03:29 [Ralph]

Guus: this was part of my thoughts; make it part of their distribution

19:04:00 [Zakim]

-Brian_McBride

19:04:02 [bwm_]

bwm_ has left #swbp

19:04:11 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

19:04:11 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

19:04:44 [aldoG]

Versioning is a major issue for every ontology production lifecycle ... we should also think on procedures to easily port new versions of wordnets and thesauri. Indeed, this issue has been very relevant in the fishery ontology project with UN-FAO ...

19:05:13 [danbri]

[the class-based approach has merit where you want to mix wordnet w/ other vocab, eg <Pig x:name="Porky"/>...]

19:05:15 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I don't hear any dissent on the first (simple) proposal

19:05:35 [danbri]

q?

19:05:38 [Ralph]

ACTION: Guus talk with Aldo about WordNet and produce a short-term plan for option 1

19:05:39 [aldoG]

I will include the proposal to make the OWL port part of the distribution in the open letter to WN developers, also mentioning the alternatives

19:05:41 [Zakim]

danbri, you wanted to feedback re versioning experience

19:06:21 [Ralph]

DanBri: We made a namespace for WordNet version 1.6; it would be simple to make another namespace for subsequent versions

19:06:22 [aldoG]

Re: ACTION, OK with me

19:06:43 [Ralph]

DanBri: my original notion was to conflate all the versions in one namespace, but it seems that won't fly

19:06:50 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

19:06:50 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

19:07:16 [Ralph]

DanBri: [would like to see] guidelines for converting thesaurii to RDF structures

19:07:32 [aldoG]

Only one namespace could be unacceptable for lexicographic people

19:07:37 [Ralph]

DanBri: WordNet could be examples in such a note

19:08:14 [Ralph]

Guus: most of the translations that have been done are not complete. I propose that any translation we do should be complete

19:08:29 [Ralph]

... e.g. only noun trees and only a few relationships

19:08:36 [Ralph]

... there are about 20 relationships

19:08:39 [aldoG]

Yes, Dan, (2) is a way of arriving to a common methodology to port terminological resources to SW

19:08:55 [Ralph]

Guus: we should do all the relationships under option 1

19:08:59 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

19:08:59 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

19:09:27 [Ralph]

Jeremy: that should be a goal, but don't overconstrain those doing the work in the TF

19:09:28 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

19:09:28 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

19:09:33 [Ralph]

Guus: ok, a goal -- not a requirement

19:09:39 [Ralph]

Topic: OPEN TF

19:09:51 [Ralph]

MikeU: lots of discussion in the past few weeks

19:10:00 [aldoG]

In (1) it is very easy to do all the relationships. In (2), we'll need to distinguish among rels holding classes, individuals, words

19:10:21 [Ralph]

MikeU: agreements have been reached on metaclasses, when to use classes as instances

19:10:38 [Ralph]

... mixing part-of and subclass relationship had some discussion also

19:10:52 [danbri]

[aldoG, did you see the SKOS vocab aliman worked on? do you think that could be extended for use in describing w/net?]

19:11:08 [Ralph]

... consensus emerging to avoid judgemental calls and take specific issues, identify representation/modelling choices

19:11:20 [Ralph]

... explain consequences of the choices, without saying "bad" or "good"

19:11:52 [Ralph]

... in cases where we can agree that an outcome is probably a desirable one or not a desirable one we can say so

19:12:25 [aldoG]

[yes, Dan, I heard about SKOS, I'll go through it asap]

19:12:33 [Ralph]

MikeU:... next steps: agree to pick a single thing to try the non-judgemental approach

19:12:42 [Ralph]

... pick a candidate for a best practice

19:12:58 [Ralph]

... move forward on some simple low-hanging frui

19:13:08 [Ralph]

s/fri/fruit/

19:14:15 [Ralph]

Guus: would be good if this TF can produce a short note from a use case perspective

19:14:31 [Ralph]

MikeU: Deb wrote a paper a few years ago

19:14:43 [Ralph]

Deb: section called "tricks of the trade"

19:14:52 [Ralph]

... when do you model something as a concept or as an individual

19:14:57 [Ralph]

... when to use classes as instances

19:15:02 [Ralph]

... Classic

19:15:31 [Ralph]

... pointed out positive and negative implications of some choices

19:15:57 [Ralph]

... will propose a format for interchange; will need several iterations

19:16:12 [jjc]

q+ to talk about early publication as note

19:16:19 [Ralph]

... will look over Living With Classic paper to see what can be lifted

19:16:31 [Ralph]

... not likely to attempt metaclasses to start

19:17:04 [Ralph]

Natasha: classes for DC:Subject have been discussed -- this is actually a technical problem

19:17:20 [Ralph]

... propose to describe tradeoffs rather than say 'good' vs 'bad'

19:17:29 [Ralph]

Deb: this doesn't sound like a short one to me

19:18:13 [Ralph]

Guus: anyone who has tried to combine Dublin Core and OWL has been faced with this problem

19:18:13 [aldoG]

maybe we could also try to give some idea of alternative general choices concerning categories of content, like my LAB has done in the EU WonderWeb project http://wonderweb.semanticweb.org, specially (public) deliverable 18

19:18:26 [Ralph]

Guus: support this (Dublin Core) topic as a note

19:18:55 [Ralph]

MikeU: we agree it is useful, concern about how long it might take

19:19:29 [Ralph]

Natasha: do 2 topics, one simple

19:19:56 [jacco]

deb: sounds like the GOF design pattern template ...

19:19:58 [Ralph]

Deb: a template for explaining tradeoffs

19:20:06 [aldoG]

obviously, alternatives of content should be given even within the Living with Classic case, or wrt Dublin Core, anyway very simple cases

19:20:35 [Ralph]

Deb: a format that would help point out consensus quickly will help

19:21:18 [Ralph]

Mike: useful for all TFs to look beneath the surface of email and notice that there often is a kernel of agreement

19:21:50 [Ralph]

ACTION: Natasha look at classes-as-values DC:Subject issue

19:21:57 [aldoG]

Having a GOF for trade-offs would be great

19:22:00 [Ralph]

Natasha: note that classes-as-instances is a different issue

19:22:45 [Ralph]

Deb: would like to change from OPEN to OEP

19:22:55 [Ralph]

Ontology Engineering Patterns

19:22:58 [aldoG]

Natasha, do you mean classes as concrete data types? therefore, the 'annotation' approach ...

19:23:23 [Ralph]

ACTION: Deb propose a simple pattern for OEP

19:23:43 [Ralph]

Deb: name change will facilitate search

19:24:07 [Ralph]

Guus: I only put on the agenda those TFs that were getting active discussion

19:24:26 [Ralph]

... from the Cannes notes, another TF I'd like to see get attention is PORT - Porting Thesaurii to the Web

19:25:01 [Ralph]

Alistair: I am working on thesaurii conversions right now

19:25:16 [Ralph]

Guus: I am working on this as well, expect to involve someone else from my lab

19:25:27 [golbeck]

i would like to be involved in port as well

19:25:33 [Ralph]

DanBri: I posted a draft today

19:25:59 [Ralph]

[Jennifer, are you on the phone with Aditya?]

19:26:06 [golbeck]

i'm on the phone at hom

19:26:07 [golbeck]

e

19:26:16 [Ralph]

oh, sorry, right

19:27:32 [Guus]

DanBri Alistair this paper might be of interest: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~guus/papers/Wielinga04.pdf

19:28:04 [aliman]

public-esw-thes has Stella Dextre-Clarke and Leonard Will from a team working on new british standards for thesauri

19:28:22 [aliman]

... doug tudhope from glamorgan

19:28:23 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

19:28:23 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

19:28:27 [Ralph]

DanBri: would the WG prefer to use an existing public-esw list or start a new one?

19:28:30 [aliman]

+ some others

19:28:35 [aditya]

yeah, im on the phone..sorry, had to step out for smthg urgent and missed the ADTF discussion:( but am discussing it w/ libby here on irc separately

19:28:45 [aliman]

(lots of good folks :)

19:29:02 [Ralph]

Guus: if a separate list, would like to have regular summaries sent to the WG list

19:29:05 [Ralph]

DanBri: agree

19:29:34 [Ralph]

Guus: XML Schema TF?

19:30:09 [Ralph]

Jeremy: not urgent, though New York is an opportunity to have informal talks

19:30:10 [Zakim]

-JosD

19:30:11 [Zakim]

-[UMD]

19:30:12 [Zakim]

-Natasha

19:30:13 [Zakim]

-David_Norheim

19:30:14 [davidn]

davidn has left #swbp

19:30:14 [Zakim]

-Alistair

19:30:14 [Ralph]

adjourned

19:30:15 [Zakim]

-Marco

19:30:16 [Zakim]

-Bristol

19:30:16 [Zakim]

-Jen_Golbeck

19:30:29 [jjc]

ACTION: jjc, write TF desc for XML Sch

19:30:31 [Zakim]

-Jacco

19:30:40 [Ralph]

zakim, list participants

19:30:40 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Pat_Hayes, danbri, libby, jjc, Marco?, Natasha, Brian_McBride, Jacco, Aditya, +1.650.723.aabb, Deb, Tom_Baker,

19:30:43 [Zakim]

... David_Norheim, JosD, Alistair, Jen_Golbeck, Marco, Mike_Uschold

19:30:48 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

19:30:48 [Zakim]

jjc was not muted, jjc

19:30:51 [Zakim]

-Ralph

19:31:06 [aldoG]

Bye

19:31:22 [ocorcho]

bye

19:31:40 [ocorcho]

ocorcho has left #swbp

19:32:02 [Tbaker]

Tbaker has joined #swbp

19:32:11 [Tbaker]

Who is talking right now?

19:32:18 [golbeck]

golbeck has left #swbp

19:35:19 [Zakim]

-Deb

19:35:20 [Zakim]

-jjc

19:35:21 [Zakim]

-Tom_Baker

19:35:22 [Zakim]

-Pat_Hayes

19:35:58 [Zakim]

-Guus_Schreiber

19:48:54 [Natasha]

Natasha has left #swbp

19:51:04 [patH]

patH has left #swbp

19:57:11 [jjc]

jjc has left #swbp

20:18:21 [libby]

thanks ralph - I should be able to scribe next time, I think, give you a rest (I havn;t got a handsfree phone yet)

21:15:18 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items:

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Guus ask Aldo if someone from Princeton is willing to participate [1]

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/04/01-swbp-irc#T18-58-41

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Guus talk with Aldo about WordNet and produce a short-term plan for option 1 [2]

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/04/01-swbp-irc#T19-05-38

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Natasha look at classes-as-values DC:Subject issue [3]

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/04/01-swbp-irc#T19-21-50

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Deb propose a simple pattern for OEP [4]

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/04/01-swbp-irc#T19-23-23

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jjc, write TF desc for XML Sch [5]

21:15:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/04/01-swbp-irc#T19-30-29

21:15:34 [Zakim]

SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended