IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-03-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:04:06 [RRSAgent]
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15:04:16 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone/
15:04:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', wendy
15:04:19 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.512.306.aaaa, [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, ??P14, Ben, Wendy
15:04:46 [wendy]
zakim, +1.512.306.aaaa is Jim_Thatcher
15:04:46 [Zakim]
+Jim_Thatcher; got it
15:04:49 [Zakim]
15:04:56 [wendy]
zakim, ??P21 is Tom
15:04:56 [Zakim]
+Tom; got it
15:05:03 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, I am Tom
15:05:03 [Zakim]
ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom
15:05:25 [wendy]
zakim, ??P14 is Chris_Ridpath
15:05:25 [Zakim]
+Chris_Ridpath; got it
15:05:29 [ben]
zakim, I am Ben
15:05:29 [Zakim]
ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
15:06:39 [wendy]
april 28-30 euroaccessibility tf3 is meeting in copenhagen
15:11:02 [wendy]
anyone likely to go?
15:11:12 [wendy]
15:11:50 [wendy]
15:11:52 [wendy]
test matrix
15:11:59 [wendy]
"consider other platforms and devices"
15:12:07 [wendy]
(from notes from f2f, jenae has questiosn)
15:13:29 [wendy]
not sure how to approach, but suggestion was to test on at least one mobile and one phone browser.
15:14:08 [wendy]
action: ben pull together suggestion for jenae to include in test matrix wrt mobile devices
15:14:26 [wendy]
"need to add keyboard interface, spellchecker, etc."
15:15:28 [wendy]
think this referred to testing with other assistive technologies.
15:15:42 [wendy]
e.g., at least one technology that emulates a keyboard
15:15:52 [wendy]
things that sit on top of browser and emulate browser
15:19:49 [wendy]
action: wendy talk with DO-IT about what other assistive technologies we ought to test with
15:22:33 [wendy]
"issues with running old versions of netscape on macs"
15:23:08 [wendy]
single mac machine, multiple versions of netscape, they magically exhibit others behaviors.
15:23:28 [wendy]
"tom's checking on apple screen readers"
15:23:42 [wendy]
had action to talk with joe, he wrote an article about.
15:24:04 [wendy]
apple demonstrated new screen reader at csun, not released yet.
15:24:12 [wendy]
tom signing up for beta program.
15:24:21 [wendy]
" "
15:24:33 [wendy]
does platform itself have ability to address some things in wcag?
15:24:48 [wendy]
"operating systems ability to enlarge text?"
15:24:59 [wendy]
a column that we want to have for each os?
15:25:20 [wendy]
text enlargement or magnification?
15:25:37 [wendy]
should consider both
15:25:47 [wendy]
"include os features: windows magnifer, mac speech..."
15:25:52 [wendy]
need to know what those features are.
15:26:39 [wendy]
screen mag and on-screen keyboard for gnome
15:26:54 [wendy]
and KDE
15:27:33 [ben]
Operating Systems with built-in Accessibility Features -
15:27:53 [wendy]
doesn't include latest mac os
15:28:03 [wendy]
ask matt about mac os
15:28:31 [Zakim]
15:28:44 [wendy]
zakim, ??P2 is Lisa_Seeman
15:28:44 [Zakim]
+Lisa_Seeman; got it
15:29:39 [wendy]
are we interested in each of these features?
15:29:55 [wendy]
serial keys for keyboard emulation. high contrast.
15:30:18 [wendy]
font size
15:31:29 [wendy]
mouse keys - p2 or p3?
15:31:59 [wendy]
show sounds - browsers don't pick up on do they?
15:32:26 [wendy]
does the os respond to any sound being made?
15:32:35 [wendy]
e.g., when play multimedia file?
15:33:46 [wendy]
action: ben when use show sounds how does it respond to multimedia in browsers
15:34:06 [wendy]
"combination of assistive technologies"
15:34:22 [wendy]
looking at screen reader combined with a magnifer
15:35:16 [wendy]
many companies produce both
15:35:28 [wendy]
action: wendy - also ask do-it about most common combinations
15:35:46 [wendy]
supernova - windows (hal and magnifier together)
15:36:41 [wendy]
jenae runs through rest of edits
15:37:13 [jtcom]
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15:40:47 [wendy]
15:40:48 [wendy]
15:41:07 [wendy]
tom trying to eliminate references to html. however, difficult to illustrate a concept.
15:41:25 [wendy]
e.g., structure of a document. how illustrate that w/out refering to a particular technology.
15:41:47 [wendy]
instead of examples, link to the examples in techniques?
15:42:00 [wendy]
issue: creates circular "definition"
15:43:38 [wendy]
could talk about structural features w/out mentioning specific code
15:44:01 [wendy]
a rendered document. don't have to show code.
15:44:16 [wendy]
example doesn't talk about code
15:44:28 [wendy]
a separate document?
15:44:40 [wendy]
a screen shot that deals with that issue?
15:44:44 [wendy]
just show part of the screen?
15:44:51 [wendy]
could talk about structure of gateway doc itself.
15:45:00 [wendy]
headings: show extracted outline
15:47:15 [wendy]
language - have techniques for writing language. there are several in the wcag 2.0 guidelines (3.1)
15:47:49 [wendy]
will those be moved to gateway or if stay in main document, implications for gateway?
15:48:45 [wendy]
editorial note: for now this in guidelines. revisit as this evolves.
15:51:46 [Zakim]
15:52:09 [wendy]
should tom send proposals to list or publish a new draft w/proposed changes included?
15:53:03 [donaldfevans]
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15:54:24 [wendy]
good case for getting new draft out. want to be careful wrt process, but enough changes that is almost a "new" draft.
15:54:43 [wendy]
people should (and are willing) read top-to-bottom anew.
15:56:01 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
15:56:12 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Lisa_Seeman (9%), Ben (20%), Tom (4%)
15:57:59 [wendy]
need to figure out how to acknowledge contributions from people
15:58:26 [wendy]
15:58:29 [wendy]
submissions form
15:58:42 [wendy]
the script was going to depend on the appropriate subcategories.
15:58:54 [wendy]
if put the big list in, then that's the degraded state. add script later.
15:59:15 [wendy]
talking about 100 or more options
15:59:42 [wendy]
make it a suggestion
16:00:42 [wendy]
action: ben have something done w/techniques submission by end of week
16:03:23 [wendy]
next steps: WCAG WG review, talk about next week, then send to individuals have talked to last few weeks
16:03:39 [wendy]
after that: "call for submissions" perhaps in conjunction w/publishing next html techniques draft.
16:03:47 [wendy]
how validate techniques that we receive?
16:03:50 [wendy]
we have to vet them.
16:04:02 [wendy]
do they fulfill thte guideline they intended to fulfill?
16:04:16 [wendy]
what about testability?
16:04:23 [wendy]
is it valid? does it make sense? does it look good?
16:04:36 [wendy]
2nd level: does it get into our techniques?
16:04:48 [wendy]
the work we have been doing w/test matrix and test files comes into that process.
16:05:00 [wendy]
we don't have a formal work plan for pulling the pieces together, but the pieces are happening.
16:05:21 [wendy]
time to connect the dots!
16:06:13 [wendy]
useful to allow people to attach html files to submissions?
16:06:19 [wendy]
test files?
16:06:24 [wendy]
that or examples
16:06:45 [wendy]
or a uri for "here's my example in real world"
16:07:01 [wendy]
references and notes
16:07:19 [wendy]
introduction at top of form?
16:07:35 [wendy]
submission form for test cases?
16:08:37 [wendy]
e.g., here's a site that passes all of the tools but is not accessible.
16:10:41 [wendy]
if do something like that, need to be careful how implemented so that don't have list (on w3c site) of list of sites that are slammed for accessibility.
16:10:53 [wendy]
however, these test cases are helpful in testing wcag 2.0.
16:13:17 [donaldfevans]
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16:13:25 [wendy]
related to EOWG's gallery and our implementation testing.
16:13:43 [wendy]
how do point to sites that meet wcag but retain w3c vendor-neutrality.
16:13:46 [wendy]
16:13:47 [wendy]
next week
16:14:02 [wendy]
gateway, techniques submission, process to validate techniques
16:14:07 [wendy]
check in on action items
16:16:21 [wendy]
action: michael and wendy talk about action items in bugzilla
16:18:06 [wendy]
april 21 - publish a techs draft for ben's bday :)
16:18:34 [wendy]
(w/out him helping :)
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16:19:03 [Zakim]
16:19:05 [Zakim]
16:19:06 [Zakim]
16:19:06 [Zakim]
16:19:07 [Zakim]
16:19:07 [Zakim]
16:19:08 [Zakim]
16:19:08 [Zakim]
16:19:18 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make log world-visible
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16:20:16 [ben]
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16:20:19 [wendy]
zakim, bye
16:20:19 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Ben, Jim_Thatcher, Tom, Chris_Ridpath, Lisa_Seeman, Don_Evans
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16:42:43 [sh1mmer]
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17:28:54 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make logs world-visible
17:28:59 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items:
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ben pull together suggestion for jenae to include in test matrix wrt mobile devices [1]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wendy talk with DO-IT about what other assistive technologies we ought to test with [2]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ben when use show sounds how does it respond to multimedia in browsers [3]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wendy - also ask do-it about most common combinations [4]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ben have something done w/techniques submission by end of week [5]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael and wendy talk about action items in bugzilla [6]
17:28:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in