IRC log of dawg on 2004-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:37:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
21:40:50 [ericP]
ericP has joined #dawg
21:42:09 [DanC_]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review agenda
21:42:20 [DanC_]
agenda + Upcoming teleconferences
21:42:27 [DanC_]
agenda + Face-to-face meeting
21:42:37 [DanC_]
agenda + Use Cases
21:43:47 [kendall]
kendall has joined #dawg
21:44:13 [DanC_]
let's see... I have regrets from Kevin Wilkinson, Janne Saarela
21:44:27 [kendall]
hi all
21:45:29 [kendall]
sometimes working from home sucks!
21:46:35 [kendall]
yeah, should do
21:47:23 [kendall]
DanC_: how long might this be today? any ideas?
21:48:12 [DanC_]
officially scheduled duration is up to 90 minutes...
21:48:14 [AndyS]
eikeon - what did you use on XP?
21:48:24 [kendall]
21:48:25 [kendall]
21:48:40 [DanC_]
... I'm wondering whether to wander around, discuss the charter, and socialize, or get in-and-out in 20 minutes.
21:48:45 [kendall]
trying to decide which phone to use; more expensive hands-free, or cheaper handsfull :>
21:49:16 [kendall]
well, a pretty high % of us have met each other, i suspect
21:49:23 [kendall]
getting in and out might make some sense for the first one?
21:49:30 [DanC_]
don't get your computer involved in your VoIP set-up. use dedicated hardware.
21:50:14 [DanC_]
straw poll: who would like to socialize, ask questions about the charter, and such?
21:50:14 [AndyS]
Not sure about the "all met" - there are a few I haven't met - if the EU-ones show up
21:50:34 [kendall]
heh, i tried to hedge it, andy :>
21:51:00 [AndyS]
socialise, structure UCs so material most useful - aim for 60 mins or so
21:51:07 [kendall]
we could put socializing near the end and let people go?
21:51:14 [AndyS]
we might as well start understanding/agreeing the charter as well.
21:51:20 [kendall]
err, s/near the end/after the 'work'/
21:51:32 [kendall]
but i'm fine either way
21:51:37 [AndyS]
Going to happen sometime (charter)
21:51:57 [DanC_]
socializing near the end is sorta missing the point... the point would be to socialize a bit to prepare for working together, e.g. for making formal decisions.
21:52:17 [DanC_]
I think I'll aim for 60 minutes.
21:52:21 [kendall]
i yield the point.
21:52:28 [kendall]
whatever you think best is fine
21:52:40 [kendall]
(and, yes, i did miss that point, so thx.)
21:54:59 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()5:00PM has now started
21:55:06 [Zakim]
21:55:23 [Zakim]
21:55:49 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
21:55:49 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
21:56:03 [eikeon]
AndyS: Think I ended up using messenger
21:56:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.502.aaaa
21:57:16 [DanC_]
Zakim, aaaa is DanielK
21:57:16 [Zakim]
+DanielK; got it
21:57:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.258.aabb
21:58:00 [DanC_]
Zakim, aabb is KendalC
21:58:00 [Zakim]
+KendalC; got it
21:58:49 [DaveB]
DaveB has joined #dawg
21:59:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.672.aacc
21:59:48 [DanC_]
Zakim, aacc is RobS
21:59:48 [Zakim]
+RobS; got it
22:00:18 [Zakim]
22:00:28 [Zakim]
+ +39.033.266.aadd
22:00:52 [DanC_]
Zakim, aadd is AlbertoR
22:00:52 [Zakim]
+AlbertoR; got it
22:01:11 [eikeon]
22:01:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.440.009.aaee
22:01:50 [DaveB]
that's me
22:01:56 [rob]
rob has joined #dawg
22:01:58 [DanC_]
Zakim, aaee is DaveB
22:02:01 [Zakim]
+DaveB; got it
22:02:17 [alberto]
alberto has joined #dawg
22:02:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.462.aaff
22:02:47 [DanC_]
Zakim, aaff is BryanT
22:02:47 [Zakim]
+BryanT; got it
22:02:50 [kendall]
shouts out to the 202 :>
22:04:28 [AndyS]
Meeting starts
22:04:34 [AndyS]
22:05:15 [AndyS]
Alberto - North of Milan
22:05:40 [AndyS]
Bryan Thompson - Washington DC
22:05:44 [alberto]
Alberto Reggiori calling in from Italy Laveno Mombello(VA) - north of Milan - see my foaf for details
22:06:15 [rob]
22:06:17 [AndyS]
Andy - Bristol UK
22:06:33 [DaveB]
rob - your name & org?
22:06:40 [AndyS]
rob - where are you?
22:06:55 [rob]
From Network Inference, currently in Carlsbad, CA.
22:07:01 [AndyS]
Jean-François Baget - not here today
22:07:11 [AndyS]
Kendall Clark - Washington DC
22:07:27 [AndyS]
Daniel Krech - Washington
22:07:33 [AndyS]
Patrick Stickler - ??
22:07:37 [AndyS]
Janne - regrets
22:07:49 [AndyS]
DaveB - Bristol
22:07:52 [Zakim]
+ +31.71.514.aagg
22:07:57 [AndyS]
s/DaveB/Dave Beckett/
22:08:05 [DanC_]
Zakim, aagg DirkG
22:08:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aagg DirkG', DanC_
22:08:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.519.746.aahh
22:08:09 [DanC_]
Zakim, aagg is DirkG
22:08:09 [Zakim]
+DirkG; got it
22:08:10 [AndyS]
Dirk - Leiden
22:08:20 [DanC_]
Zakim, aahh JosD
22:08:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aahh JosD', DanC_
22:08:38 [AndyS]
Jos - Toronto
22:08:58 [AndyS]
DanC - Kansas
22:09:24 [AndyS]
EricP - Fujisawa
22:09:49 [DaveB]
22:09:57 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
22:09:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review agenda" taken up [from DanC_]
22:10:00 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
22:10:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, DanC_
22:10:03 [DanC_]
Zakim, close item 1
22:10:03 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
22:10:04 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:10:05 [AndyS]
zakim, aahh is JosD
22:10:05 [Zakim]
2. Upcoming teleconferences [from DanC_]
22:10:06 [Zakim]
+JosD; got it
22:10:08 [DanC_]
Zakim, take up item 2
22:10:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Upcoming teleconferences" taken up [from DanC_]
22:10:21 [dirkx]
dirkx has joined #dawg
22:11:00 [AndyS]
All silence for DanC to propose ... Thursday @15:30 UTC
22:11:25 [rob]
a tad early, but I can do it
22:11:42 [AndyS]
AndyS - seconded
22:11:57 [alberto]
fine by me
22:12:02 [dirkx]
No trouble from my end.
22:12:05 [AndyS]
resolved - Thurs @15:30 UTC - next March 25
22:12:16 [AndyS]
scribe will be Kendall Clark
22:12:23 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
22:12:23 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Face-to-face meeting" taken up [from DanC_]
22:13:04 [AndyS]
DirkX offers April around XML-e
22:13:27 [AndyS]
Amsterdam (far end) or Leiden
22:14:02 [AndyS]
22:14:02 [ericP]
q+ to say 22-233 lookedgood for many folks
22:14:21 [dirkx]
erikP said 22/23 best - was good/wide poll
22:14:32 [AndyS]
EricP has checked out 22-23 April (Thurs/Fri)
22:14:43 [ericP]
22:14:45 [dirkx]
AndyP: citywide wifi
22:14:46 [AndyS]
EricP - that's 60%+
22:15:05 [AndyS]
22:15:47 [bijan]
bijan has joined #dawg
22:15:58 [kendall]
hi bij
22:16:14 [rob]
22:16:25 [bijan]
C'est moi
22:16:27 [AndyS]
F2F is probably in Leiden
22:17:22 [alberto]
if 5-20 people there -
22:17:37 [alberto]
if 20-50 people
22:17:42 [AndyS]
Rob - may have difficulty in being there
22:17:56 [kendall]
a nearby hotel or two would be nice -- urls, i m ean
22:18:01 [alberto]
if more than that another option is
22:18:03 [AndyS]
EricP: people from XML-europe conf may have an opinion
22:18:12 [dirkx]
sure / will add.
22:18:27 [AndyS]
dirkx: should be easy
22:18:48 [AndyS]
AndyS: can get to either - its cool
22:18:59 [alberto]
22:19:21 [AndyS]
DanC, Kendal, EricP, Alberto, +1, DaveB, Bryan, dirk on his bike
22:19:26 [AndyS]
Jos: fine
22:19:45 [AndyS]
Proposal: meet 22-23 April
22:19:49 [AndyS]
Rob - abstain
22:19:54 [dirkx]
Note to self; must ask Dan if we need telecom bridge or just dial on voice.
22:19:56 [AndyS]
else carried
22:20:08 [DanC_]
Zakim, next item
22:20:08 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Use Cases" taken up [from DanC_]
22:21:04 [AndyS]
q+ talk about structure
22:21:14 [AndyS]
q+, want to talk about structure later
22:21:55 [DaveB]
AndyS likes
22:22:16 [Zakim]
22:22:17 [dirkx]
Ok thanks folks - Dirk-Willem need to run now - have a good meeting.
22:22:31 [alberto]
is it the one about "query by example" from Patrick?
22:22:33 [AndyS]
AndyS: also PS-3
22:22:53 [AndyS]
seems to be some overlap
22:22:54 [thompsonbry]
thompsonbry has joined #dawg
22:23:21 [alberto]
PS-3 -->
22:23:35 [AndyS]
DanC; nervous as not conjunctive query
22:23:44 [AndyS]
Rob: same concern
22:25:35 [AndyS]
Issue: scope of WG
22:25:39 [alberto]
likes DaveB thesaurus use-case - quite common
22:26:03 [AndyS]
Some usages amy be inappropriate for some implementers
22:26:15 [AndyS]
DaveB: this was asked for by a user
22:26:28 [kendall]
22:26:45 [ericP]
q+ to mention annotea goals along this line
22:27:08 [rob]
I see it as the kind of service that could be built on top of a more specific RDF query interface...
22:27:21 [AndyS]
Daveb: interested in impl-ing
22:27:50 [DaveB]
has rob got a (short) use case that could be given on the telcon?
22:28:23 [alberto]
22:28:33 [AndyS]
AndyS: has impl'ed AFS-2!
22:28:54 [DaveB]
ericp speaking?
22:29:04 [ericP]
22:29:20 [thompsonbry]
UC: Querying the RDF assertions licensed by a web resource. That is, re-representation of the web resource as RDF.
22:29:20 [AndyS]
(missed that) EricP summarise please
22:29:48 [AndyS]
q+ to talk about UC output
22:29:57 [DanC_]
ack andy
22:29:57 [Zakim]
AndyS, you wanted to talk about UC output
22:30:01 [kendall]
q+ speak for js-1
22:30:10 [kendall]
q+ to speak for js-1
22:30:26 [DanC_]
ack kendall
22:30:26 [Zakim]
kendall, you wanted to speak for js-1
22:30:34 [thompsonbry]
can't hear over typer
22:30:37 [AndyS]
scribe can't hear
22:31:06 [DanC_]
kendal is speaking to JS-1 , I think
22:31:13 [AndyS]
Kendall: have imple'ed somethign like JS-1
22:33:19 [AndyS]
Action: refine JS-1 on-list
22:33:29 [DanC_]
ACTION kendall: refine JS-1 in email
22:34:44 [AndyS]
discussion about charter limits on inference
22:34:44 [DanC_]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
22:34:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, DanielK, KendalC, RobS, EricP, AlbertoR, DaveB, BryanT, JosD
22:35:21 [AndyS]
DanielK: catching up
22:35:52 [AndyS]
Rob: simple AFS-1 => resource has property
22:36:15 [ericP]
+1 on AFS-1
22:36:18 [eikeon]
22:36:22 [DaveB]
+1 (I'm muted)
22:36:25 [rob]
e.g. "Get me all the things with this property, and tell me something about them"
22:36:42 [AndyS]
Rob considers it complete
22:36:59 [AndyS]
"If part" OK - nothing about results
22:37:08 [AndyS]
22:37:42 [DanC_]
ACTION AndyS: refine AFS-1: "Find the resource for the person called 'John S mith'" with some details
22:38:05 [AndyS]
ericP: variable predicates possible
22:38:37 [rob]
this is the kind of use case we're already deploying
22:39:07 [AndyS]
EricP: variable predicates are beyong conjunctive RDF
22:39:18 [DaveB]
+1 to give me all the predicates about X
22:39:33 [AndyS]
EricP: Favourite is AFS-1
22:40:02 [kendall]
Zakim, mute me
22:40:02 [Zakim]
sorry, kendall, I do not see a party named 'kendall'
22:40:07 [AndyS]
Alberto: AFS-1 and AFS-2
22:40:09 [kendall]
22:40:12 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items:
22:40:12 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kendall to refine JS-1 in email [1]
22:40:12 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
22:40:12 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AndyS to refine AFS-1: "Find the resource for the person called 'John S mith'" with some details [2]
22:40:12 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
22:41:10 [DanC_]
22:41:37 [AndyS]
Alberto: want to start to get RDF to ask more specifi q later
22:42:00 [AndyS]
Alberto: e.g. picture, FOAF file - need to start somewhere
22:42:17 [AndyS]
q+ to ask about impl stories
22:42:35 [kendall]
hmm, zakim won't mute me ;>
22:42:37 [AndyS]
Alberto: has impl'ed something like this
22:42:58 [DaveB]
I didn't say everything; I said 'useful stuff'
22:43:14 [thompsonbry]
perhaps you want a depth of inference limit or cost limit in the request?
22:43:50 [DanC_]
ack andys
22:43:50 [Zakim]
AndyS, you wanted to ask about impl stories
22:43:53 [rob]
Isn't not necessarily depth. Everything within one hop can still be kind of a lot. I was thinking of at least providing predicates for choosing the properties in which you're interested.
22:44:17 [thompsonbry]
how about asking for all predicates in a specific schema about a URI?
22:44:28 [AndyS]
andyS asks whether UC wants impl stories
22:44:45 [AndyS]
DanC; WG *is* the glossary
22:44:47 [kendall]
schemata :>
22:45:30 [AndyS]
DanC: UC is a story - relate to features of system - useful at LC - not too general
22:45:55 [rob]
What document is being read?
22:45:56 [AndyS]
DanC: UC is engaging - clear to wider audience like press releases
22:46:15 [DaveB]
DanC is reading
22:46:38 [AndyS]
DanC: Story => requirements in detail (e.g. get property)
22:46:55 [AndyS]
Alberto on AFS-2 ...
22:47:37 [AndyS]
DaveB: EricP's all predicates of a thing (resource by URI?)
22:47:56 [AndyS]
DaveB: "John Smith's name" AFS-1
22:48:11 [AndyS]
DaveB: PS-{1,6} might want structure
22:48:34 [thompsonbry]
What about pub/sub, eg, so that a remote server could choose to accept updates from another server?
22:48:45 [DanC_]
ACTION EricP: send "tell me properties of X" case
22:49:15 [AndyS]
Jos: DanC-1 : lat/long on census
22:49:23 [DanC_]
census case
22:49:37 [AndyS]
Jos: AFS-1,2
22:49:52 [alberto]
DanC-1 might have space/temporal stuff in it - nice/useful
22:49:55 [AndyS]
Dirk Colaert joins
22:50:34 [AndyS]
??: protocol/query separation. xpointer example
22:50:42 [DanC_]
22:50:51 [DaveB]
ref to
22:50:52 [AndyS]
?? is Bryan
22:51:10 [AndyS]
UC input:
22:51:37 [kendall]
i'll have some use cases soon that focus on the protocol, fwiw
22:52:05 [AndyS]
DanC: Bookmarking queries
22:52:18 [AndyS]
Bryan: adds frag to request
22:52:23 [AndyS]
via range:
22:52:55 [AndyS]
Query string semantics are, in HTTP, link to GET or GET+PUT ????
22:53:31 [kendall]
Zakim, unmute me
22:53:31 [Zakim]
sorry, kendall, I do not see a party named 'kendall'
22:53:41 [AndyS]
Rob will provide UCs when on list
22:54:15 [AndyS]
Rob: simple case: all people s.t. ... real customers interested in this
22:56:11 [DanC_]
ACTION AlbertoS: elaborate on AFS-2
22:56:15 [alberto]
22:56:45 [eikeon]
22:56:50 [rob]
22:56:58 [DanC_]
22:57:03 [AndyS]
Meeting adjourned
22:57:38 [kendall]
i'm going to ring off and save some $$ on my cell phone; will stay on IRC.
22:57:50 [Zakim]
22:57:59 [rob]
until I can post to mail, I can be contacted via
22:58:10 [Zakim]
22:59:37 [thompsonbry]
22:59:44 [Zakim]
23:00:05 [gerald]
gerald has joined #dawg
23:00:50 [DanC_]
hi gerald...
23:01:09 [DanC_]
Dirk of Agfa is having trouble ith AAS
23:01:15 [DanC_]
can you join us on the phone?
23:01:17 [gerald]
hi. I have to leave in <2 mins...
23:01:21 [DanC_]
we're having a post-WG chat
23:01:30 [DanC_]
can you join for just a sec?
23:01:37 [DanC_]
Zakim, passcode?
23:01:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7333, DanC_
23:01:44 [gerald]
23:01:57 [Zakim]
23:03:50 [alberto]
ok guys, I need to leave now -
23:04:05 [Zakim]
23:04:09 [eikeon]
Zakim, mute DanielK
23:04:09 [Zakim]
DanielK should now be muted
23:04:23 [gerald]
gerald has left #dawg
23:04:27 [Zakim]
23:04:28 [Zakim]
23:04:29 [Zakim]
23:04:32 [Zakim]
23:04:36 [Zakim]
23:05:22 [alberto]
alberto has left #dawg
23:05:26 [Zakim]
23:05:31 [Zakim]
23:05:32 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()5:00PM has ended
23:05:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were DanC, AndyS, +1.603.502.aaaa, DanielK, +1.202.258.aabb, KendalC, +1.760.672.aacc, RobS, EricP, +39.033.266.aadd, AlbertoR, +1.440.009.aaee, DaveB, +1.202.462.aaff,
23:05:35 [Zakim]
... BryanT, +31.71.514.aagg, +1.519.746.aahh, DirkG, JosD, Gerald
23:05:39 [AndyS]
Dan - anything else I need to do?
23:05:59 [AndyS]
and normally what's the procedure?
23:08:25 [DanC_]
nothing else I need from you today...
23:08:33 [DanC_]
... I'm going to finish scribe duties today...
23:08:49 [DanC_]
... normally, I'd like the scribe to send email with an edited version of the notes.
23:09:38 [AndyS]
OK - I'm off now
23:16:40 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #dawg
23:24:26 [DanC_]
RRSAgent, make logs public
23:24:31 [DanC_]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
23:24:44 [DanC_]
RRSAgent, pointer?
23:24:44 [RRSAgent]