21:37:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
21:40:50 <ericP> ericP has joined #dawg
21:42:09 <DanC_> agenda + Convene, take roll, review agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0043.html
21:42:20 <DanC_> agenda + Upcoming teleconferences
21:42:27 <DanC_> agenda + Face-to-face meeting
21:42:37 <DanC_> agenda + Use Cases
21:43:47 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
21:44:13 <DanC_> let's see... I have regrets from Kevin Wilkinson, Janne Saarela
21:44:27 <kendall> hi all
21:45:29 <kendall> sometimes working from home sucks!
21:46:35 <kendall> yeah, should do
21:47:23 <kendall> DanC_: how long might this be today? any ideas?
21:48:12 <DanC_> officially scheduled duration is up to 90 minutes...
21:48:14 <AndyS> eikeon - what did you use on XP?
21:48:24 <kendall> 'k
21:48:25 <kendall> thx
21:48:40 <DanC_> ... I'm wondering whether to wander around, discuss the charter, and socialize, or get in-and-out in 20 minutes.
21:48:45 <kendall> trying to decide which phone to use; more expensive hands-free, or cheaper handsfull :>
21:49:16 <kendall> well, a pretty high % of us have  met each other, i suspect
21:49:23 <kendall> getting in and out might make some  sense  for the first one?
21:49:30 <DanC_> don't get your computer involved in your VoIP set-up. use dedicated hardware.
21:50:14 <DanC_> straw poll: who would like to socialize, ask questions about the charter, and such?
21:50:14 <AndyS> Not sure about the "all met" - there are a few I haven't met - if the EU-ones show up
21:50:34 <kendall> heh,  i tried to hedge it, andy :>
21:51:00 <AndyS> socialise, structure UCs so material most useful - aim for 60 mins or so 
21:51:07 <kendall> we could put socializing near the end and let people go?
21:51:14 <AndyS> we might as well start understanding/agreeing the charter as well.
21:51:20 <kendall> err, s/near the end/after the 'work'/
21:51:32 <kendall> but i'm fine either way
21:51:37 <AndyS> Going to happen sometime (charter)
21:51:57 <DanC_> socializing near the end is sorta missing the point... the point would be to socialize a bit to prepare for working together, e.g. for making formal decisions.
21:52:17 <DanC_> I think I'll aim for 60 minutes.
21:52:21 <kendall> i yield the point.
21:52:28 <kendall> whatever you think best is fine
21:52:40 <kendall> (and, yes, i did miss that point, so thx.)
21:54:59 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()5:00PM has now started
21:55:06 <Zakim> +??P0
21:55:23 <Zakim> +DanC
21:55:49 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is AndyS
21:55:49 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
21:56:03 <eikeon> AndyS: Think I ended up using messenger
21:56:51 <Zakim> + +1.603.502.aaaa
21:57:16 <DanC_> Zakim, aaaa is DanielK
21:57:16 <Zakim> +DanielK; got it
21:57:44 <Zakim> + +1.202.258.aabb
21:58:00 <DanC_> Zakim, aabb is KendalC
21:58:00 <Zakim> +KendalC; got it
21:58:49 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
21:59:24 <Zakim> + +1.760.672.aacc
21:59:48 <DanC_> Zakim, aacc is RobS
21:59:48 <Zakim> +RobS; got it
22:00:18 <Zakim> +EricP
22:00:28 <Zakim> + +39.033.266.aadd
22:00:52 <DanC_> Zakim, aadd is AlbertoR
22:00:52 <Zakim> +AlbertoR; got it
22:01:11 <eikeon> :)
22:01:46 <Zakim> + +1.440.009.aaee
22:01:50 <DaveB> that's me
22:01:56 <rob> rob has joined #dawg
22:01:58 <DanC_> Zakim, aaee is DaveB
22:02:01 <Zakim> +DaveB; got it
22:02:17 <alberto> alberto has joined #dawg
22:02:23 <Zakim> + +1.202.462.aaff
22:02:47 <DanC_> Zakim, aaff is BryanT
22:02:47 <Zakim> +BryanT; got it
22:02:50 <kendall> shouts out to the 202 :>
22:04:28 <AndyS> Meeting starts
22:04:34 <AndyS> scribe
22:05:15 <AndyS> Alberto - North of Milan
22:05:40 <AndyS> Bryan Thompson - Washington DC
22:05:44 <alberto> Alberto Reggiori calling in from Italy Laveno Mombello(VA) - north of Milan - see my foaf for details
22:06:15 <rob> yes...
22:06:17 <AndyS> Andy - Bristol UK
22:06:33 <DaveB> rob - your name & org?
22:06:40 <AndyS> rob - where are you?
22:06:55 <rob> From Network Inference, currently in Carlsbad, CA.
22:07:01 <AndyS> Jean-François Baget - not here today
22:07:11 <AndyS> Kendall Clark - Washington DC
22:07:27 <AndyS> Daniel Krech - Washington
22:07:33 <AndyS> Patrick Stickler - ??
22:07:37 <AndyS> Janne - regrets
22:07:49 <AndyS> DaveB - Bristol 
22:07:52 <Zakim> + +31.71.514.aagg
22:07:57 <AndyS> s/DaveB/Dave Beckett/
22:08:05 <DanC_> Zakim, aagg DirkG
22:08:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aagg DirkG', DanC_
22:08:07 <Zakim> + +1.519.746.aahh
22:08:09 <DanC_> Zakim, aagg is DirkG
22:08:09 <Zakim> +DirkG; got it
22:08:10 <AndyS> Dirk - Leiden
22:08:20 <DanC_> Zakim, aahh JosD
22:08:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aahh JosD', DanC_
22:08:38 <AndyS> Jos - Toronto
22:08:58 <AndyS> DanC - Kansas
22:09:24 <AndyS> EricP - Fujisawa
22:09:49 <DaveB> agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0043.html
22:09:57 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
22:09:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0043.html" taken up [from DanC_]
22:10:00 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
22:10:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, DanC_
22:10:03 <DanC_> Zakim, close item 1
22:10:03 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
22:10:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:10:05 <AndyS> zakim, aahh is JosD
22:10:05 <Zakim> 2. Upcoming teleconferences [from DanC_]
22:10:06 <Zakim> +JosD; got it
22:10:08 <DanC_> Zakim, take up item 2
22:10:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Upcoming teleconferences" taken up [from DanC_]
22:10:21 <dirkx> dirkx has joined #dawg
22:11:00 <AndyS> All silence for DanC to propose ... Thursday @15:30 UTC
22:11:25 <rob> a tad early, but I can do it
22:11:42 <AndyS> AndyS - seconded
22:11:57 <alberto> fine by me
22:12:02 <dirkx> No trouble from my end.
22:12:05 <AndyS> resolved - Thurs @15:30 UTC - next March 25
22:12:16 <AndyS> scribe will be Kendall Clark
22:12:23 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
22:12:23 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Face-to-face meeting" taken up [from DanC_]
22:13:04 <AndyS> DirkX offers April around XML-e
22:13:27 <AndyS> Amsterdam (far end) or Leiden
22:14:02 <AndyS> WiFi!
22:14:02 <ericP> q+ to say 22-233 lookedgood for many folks
22:14:21 <dirkx> erikP said 22/23 best - was good/wide poll
22:14:32 <AndyS> EricP has checked out 22-23 April (Thurs/Fri)
22:14:43 <ericP> q-
22:14:45 <dirkx> AndyP: citywide wifi http://www.wirelessleiden.nl/
22:14:46 <AndyS> EricP - that's 60%+
22:15:05 <AndyS> s/AndyP/AndyS/
22:15:47 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
22:15:58 <kendall> hi bij
22:16:14 <rob> parisa?
22:16:25 <bijan> C'est moi
22:16:27 <AndyS> F2F is probably in Leiden
22:17:22 <alberto> if 5-20 people there - http://www.pieterskerk.com/content.cfm?menu=50&lang=NL
22:17:37 <alberto> if 20-50 people http://www.vbmk.nl/locaties/zuidholland/leidhoogb.html
22:17:42 <AndyS> Rob - may have difficulty in being there
22:17:56 <kendall> a nearby hotel or two would be nice -- urls, i m ean
22:18:01 <alberto> if more than that another option is http://www.deburchtleiden.nl/
22:18:03 <AndyS> EricP: people from XML-europe conf may have an opinion
22:18:12 <dirkx> sure / will add.
22:18:27 <AndyS> dirkx: should be easy
22:18:48 <AndyS> AndyS: can get to either - its cool
22:18:59 <alberto> sure
22:19:21 <AndyS> DanC, Kendal, EricP, Alberto, +1, DaveB, Bryan, dirk on his bike
22:19:26 <AndyS> Jos: fine
22:19:45 <AndyS> Proposal: meet 22-23 April 
22:19:49 <AndyS> Rob - abstain
22:19:54 <dirkx> Note to self; must ask Dan if we need telecom bridge or just dial on voice.
22:19:56 <AndyS> else carried
22:20:08 <DanC_> Zakim, next item
22:20:08 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Use Cases" taken up [from DanC_]
22:21:04 <AndyS> q+ talk about structure
22:21:14 <AndyS> q+, want to talk about structure later
22:21:55 <DaveB> AndyS likes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0063.html
22:22:16 <Zakim> -DirkG
22:22:17 <dirkx> Ok thanks folks - Dirk-Willem need to run now - have a good meeting.
22:22:31 <alberto> is it the one about "query by example" from Patrick?
22:22:33 <AndyS> AndyS: also PS-3
22:22:53 <AndyS> seems to be some overlap
22:22:54 <thompsonbry> thompsonbry has joined #dawg
22:23:21 <alberto> PS-3 --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0053.html
22:23:35 <AndyS> DanC; nervous as not conjunctive query
22:23:44 <AndyS> Rob: same concern
22:25:35 <AndyS> Issue: scope of WG
22:25:39 <alberto> likes DaveB thesaurus use-case - quite common
22:26:03 <AndyS> Some usages amy be inappropriate for some implementers
22:26:15 <AndyS> DaveB: this was asked for by a user
22:26:28 <kendall> :>
22:26:45 <ericP> q+ to mention annotea goals along this line
22:27:08 <rob> I see it as the kind of service that could be built on top of a more specific RDF query interface...
22:27:21 <AndyS> Daveb: interested in impl-ing
22:27:50 <DaveB> has rob got a (short) use case that could be given on the telcon?
22:28:23 <alberto> smiles
22:28:33 <AndyS> AndyS: has impl'ed AFS-2!
22:28:54 <DaveB> ericp speaking?
22:29:04 <ericP> q-
22:29:20 <thompsonbry> UC: Querying the RDF assertions licensed by a web resource.  That is, re-representation of the web resource as RDF.
22:29:20 <AndyS> (missed that) EricP summarise please
22:29:48 <AndyS> q+ to talk about UC output 
22:29:57 <DanC_> ack andy
22:29:57 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to talk about UC output 
22:30:01 <kendall> q+ speak for js-1
22:30:10 <kendall> q+ to speak for js-1
22:30:26 <DanC_> ack kendall
22:30:26 <Zakim> kendall, you wanted to speak for js-1
22:30:34 <thompsonbry> can't hear over typer
22:30:37 <AndyS> scribe can't hear
22:31:06 <DanC_> kendal is speaking to JS-1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0014.html , I think
22:31:13 <AndyS> Kendall: have imple'ed somethign like JS-1
22:33:19 <AndyS> Action: refine JS-1 on-list
22:33:29 <DanC_> ACTION kendall: refine JS-1 in email
22:34:44 <AndyS> discussion about charter limits on inference
22:34:44 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
22:34:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, DanielK, KendalC, RobS, EricP, AlbertoR, DaveB, BryanT, JosD
22:35:21 <AndyS> DanielK: catching up
22:35:52 <AndyS> Rob: simple AFS-1 => resource has property
22:36:15 <ericP> +1 on AFS-1
22:36:18 <eikeon> +1
22:36:22 <DaveB> +1 (I'm muted)
22:36:25 <rob> e.g. "Get me all the things with this property, and tell me something about them"
22:36:42 <AndyS> Rob considers it complete
22:36:59 <AndyS> "If part" OK - nothing about results
22:37:08 <AndyS> s/complete/incomplete/
22:37:42 <DanC_> ACTION AndyS: refine AFS-1: "Find the resource for the person called 'John S mith'" with some details
22:38:05 <AndyS> ericP: variable predicates possible
22:38:37 <rob> this is the kind of use case we're already deploying
22:39:07 <AndyS> EricP: variable predicates are beyong conjunctive RDF
22:39:18 <DaveB> +1 to give me all the predicates about X
22:39:33 <AndyS> EricP: Favourite is AFS-1
22:40:02 <kendall> Zakim, mute me
22:40:02 <Zakim> sorry, kendall, I do not see a party named 'kendall'
22:40:07 <AndyS> Alberto: AFS-1 and AFS-2
22:40:09 <kendall> hmm
22:40:12 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items:
22:40:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kendall to refine JS-1 in email [1]
22:40:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/17-dawg-irc#T22-33-29
22:40:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to refine AFS-1: "Find the resource for the person called 'John S mith'" with some details [2]
22:40:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/17-dawg-irc#T22-37-42
22:41:10 <DanC_> AFS-2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0022.html
22:41:37 <AndyS> Alberto: want to start to get RDF to ask more specifi q later
22:42:00 <AndyS> Alberto: e.g. picture, FOAF file - need to start somewhere
22:42:17 <AndyS> q+ to ask about impl stories
22:42:35 <kendall> hmm, zakim  won't mute me ;>
22:42:37 <AndyS> Alberto: has impl'ed something like this
22:42:58 <DaveB> I didn't say everything; I said 'useful stuff'
22:43:14 <thompsonbry> perhaps you want a depth of inference limit or cost limit in the request?
22:43:50 <DanC_> ack andys
22:43:50 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about impl stories
22:43:53 <rob> Isn't not necessarily depth. Everything within one hop can still be kind of a lot. I was thinking of at least providing predicates for choosing the properties in which you're interested.
22:44:17 <thompsonbry> how about asking for all predicates in a specific schema about a URI?
22:44:28 <AndyS> andyS asks whether UC wants impl stories
22:44:45 <AndyS> DanC; WG *is* the glossary
22:44:47 <kendall> schemata :>
22:45:30 <AndyS> DanC: UC is a story - relate to features of system - useful at LC - not too general
22:45:55 <rob> What document is being read?
22:45:56 <AndyS> DanC: UC is engaging - clear to wider audience like press releases
22:46:15 <DaveB> DanC is reading http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0009.html
22:46:38 <AndyS> DanC: Story => requirements in detail (e.g. get property)
22:46:55 <AndyS> Alberto on AFS-2 ...
22:47:37 <AndyS> DaveB: EricP's all predicates of a thing (resource by URI?)
22:47:56 <AndyS> DaveB: "John Smith's name" AFS-1
22:48:11 <AndyS> DaveB: PS-{1,6} might want structure
22:48:34 <thompsonbry> What about pub/sub, eg, so that a remote server could choose to accept updates from another server?
22:48:45 <DanC_> ACTION EricP: send "tell me properties of X" case
22:49:15 <AndyS> Jos: DanC-1 : lat/long on census
22:49:23 <DanC_> census case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0059.html
22:49:37 <AndyS> Jos: AFS-1,2
22:49:52 <alberto> DanC-1 might have space/temporal stuff in it - nice/useful
22:49:55 <AndyS> Dirk Colaert joins
22:50:34 <AndyS> ??: protocol/query separation.  xpointer example
22:50:42 <DanC_> BryanT
22:50:51 <DaveB> ref to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0048.html
22:50:52 <AndyS> ?? is Bryan
22:51:10 <AndyS> UC input: http://wiki.cognitiveweb.org/HttpRangeAndXPointer
22:51:37 <kendall> i'll have some use cases soon that focus on the protocol, fwiw
22:52:05 <AndyS> DanC: Bookmarking queries
22:52:18 <AndyS> Bryan: adds frag to request
22:52:23 <AndyS> via range:
22:52:55 <AndyS> Query string semantics are, in HTTP, link to GET or GET+PUT ????
22:53:31 <kendall> Zakim, unmute me
22:53:31 <Zakim> sorry, kendall, I do not see a party named 'kendall'
22:53:41 <AndyS> Rob will provide UCs when on list
22:54:15 <AndyS> Rob: simple case: all people s.t. ... real customers interested in this
22:56:11 <DanC_> ACTION AlbertoS: elaborate on AFS-2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0022.html
22:56:15 <alberto> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0022.html
22:56:45 <eikeon> +1
22:56:50 <rob> third
22:56:58 <DanC_> ADJOURNed.
22:57:03 <AndyS> Meeting adjourned
22:57:38 <kendall> i'm going to ring off and save some $$ on my cell phone; will stay on IRC.
22:57:50 <Zakim> -KendalC
22:57:59 <rob> until I can post to mail, I can be contacted via rob.shearer@networkinference.com
22:58:10 <Zakim> -DaveB
22:59:37 <thompsonbry> caio
22:59:44 <Zakim> -BryanT
23:00:05 <gerald> gerald has joined #dawg
23:00:50 <DanC_> hi gerald...
23:01:09 <DanC_> Dirk of Agfa is having trouble ith AAS
23:01:15 <DanC_> can you join us on the phone?
23:01:17 <gerald> hi. I have to leave in <2 mins...
23:01:21 <DanC_> we're having a post-WG chat
23:01:30 <DanC_> can you join for just a sec?
23:01:37 <DanC_> Zakim, passcode?
23:01:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 7333, DanC_
23:01:44 <gerald> ok
23:01:57 <Zakim> +Gerald
23:03:50 <alberto> ok guys, I need to leave now - 
23:04:05 <Zakim> -Gerald
23:04:09 <eikeon> Zakim, mute DanielK
23:04:09 <Zakim> DanielK should now be muted
23:04:23 <gerald> gerald has left #dawg
23:04:27 <Zakim> -JosD
23:04:28 <Zakim> -DanC
23:04:29 <Zakim> -RobS
23:04:32 <Zakim> -DanielK
23:04:36 <Zakim> -AndyS
23:05:22 <alberto> alberto has left #dawg
23:05:26 <Zakim> -AlbertoR
23:05:31 <Zakim> -EricP
23:05:32 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()5:00PM has ended
23:05:33 <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, AndyS, +1.603.502.aaaa, DanielK, +1.202.258.aabb, KendalC, +1.760.672.aacc, RobS, EricP, +39.033.266.aadd, AlbertoR, +1.440.009.aaee, DaveB, +1.202.462.aaff,
23:05:35 <Zakim> ... BryanT, +31.71.514.aagg, +1.519.746.aahh, DirkG, JosD, Gerald
23:05:39 <AndyS> Dan - anything else I need to do?
23:05:59 <AndyS> and normally what's the procedure?
23:08:25 <DanC_> nothing else I need from you today...
23:08:33 <DanC_> ... I'm going to finish scribe duties today...
23:08:49 <DanC_> ... normally, I'd like the scribe to send email with an edited version of the notes.
23:09:38 <AndyS> OK - I'm off now
23:16:40 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #dawg
23:24:26 <DanC_> RRSAgent, make logs public
23:24:31 <DanC_> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
23:24:44 <DanC_> RRSAgent, pointer?
23:24:44 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/03/17-dawg-irc#T23-24-44