IRC log of ws-arch on 2004-01-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:29:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ws-arch
20:29:35 [hugo]
RRSAgent, where am I?
20:29:35 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-29-35
20:29:53 [Zakim]
WS_ArchWG()3:30PM has now started
20:29:57 [hugo]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2004Jan/0046.html
20:30:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.818.aaaa
20:30:14 [hugo]
Meeting: Web Services Architecture Working Group call
20:31:52 [Zakim]
+[Fujitsu]
20:31:59 [Zakim]
+Hugo
20:32:11 [dbooth]
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20:32:19 [Zakim]
+Roger
20:32:43 [Roger]
Roger has joined #ws-arch
20:32:55 [Roger]
zakim, who is here?
20:32:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike.Champion, [Fujitsu], Hugo, Roger
20:32:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Roger, dbooth, RRSAgent, fgm, Zakim, mchampion, mario, bijan, hugo
20:33:17 [Zakim]
+Abbie
20:33:45 [Zakim]
+Mario
20:33:58 [dbooth]
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20:34:24 [dbooth]
hi guys. i'm going to have zakim call me at my hotel in munich. would someone please ask the receptionist to connect to my in room 449? thanks.
20:34:29 [dbooth]
zakim, call dbooth-munich
20:34:29 [Zakim]
ok, dbooth; the call is being made
20:34:30 [Zakim]
+Dbooth
20:34:32 [dbooth]
my network connection is very flakey
20:35:24 [dbooth2]
dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
20:35:26 [Zakim]
-Dbooth
20:35:52 [dbooth2]
hugo? mike?
20:36:00 [mchampion]
hi david
20:36:19 [hugo]
dbooth2, yes?
20:37:38 [Zakim]
+Katia_Sycara
20:37:53 [hugo]
dbooth2, we didn't get anything on the bridge
20:37:56 [mchampion]
zakim, who is here?
20:37:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike.Champion, [Fujitsu], Hugo, Roger, Abbie, Mario, Katia_Sycara
20:37:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dbooth2, Roger, RRSAgent, fgm, Zakim, mchampion, mario, bijan, hugo
20:39:44 [yinleng]
yinleng has joined #ws-arch
20:39:53 [dbooth]
dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:40:04 [mchampion]
david, will you be able to call in?
20:40:35 [Zakim]
+Sinisa
20:41:06 [mitrepauld]
mitrepauld has joined #ws-arch
20:41:08 [fgm]
.nick scribe
20:41:21 [dbooth2]
dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
20:41:58 [scribe]
Any corrections on minutes?
20:41:58 [scribe]
No
20:42:45 [dbooth2]
zakim, call dbooth-munich
20:42:45 [Zakim]
ok, dbooth2; the call is being made
20:42:46 [Zakim]
+Dbooth
20:43:16 [scribe]
ACTION: Katia to review Policy and Message models and update OWL by next week. [done]
20:43:19 [Zakim]
+PaulD
20:43:29 [Zakim]
-Dbooth
20:43:59 [Zakim]
+??P12
20:44:26 [mchampion]
zakim, +??P12 is gerald
20:44:26 [Zakim]
sorry, mchampion, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
20:44:32 [Zakim]
+??P13
20:44:49 [scribe]
zakim, p12 is gerald
20:44:49 [Zakim]
sorry, scribe, I do not recognize a party named 'p12'
20:45:20 [yinleng]
zakim, ??P13 is yinleng
20:45:20 [Zakim]
+yinleng; got it
20:45:44 [scribe]
ACTION: dbooth to clarify term "service provider" and "service requester" and expand glossary [done]
20:46:12 [scribe]
ACTION: Mike to add and wordsmith text in 3.11 choreography [pending]
20:46:25 [yinleng]
zakim, ??P12 is gerald
20:46:25 [Zakim]
+gerald; got it
20:46:29 [scribe]
ACTION: Mike to propose changes to WS Reliability section in stakeholders perspective [pending]
20:46:41 [scribe]
ACTION: MikeC to ping DavidOrchard for his input on the Resource [done]
20:46:55 [scribe]
ACTION: Suresh to review doc and propose text on EBXML [dropped]
20:47:25 [scribe]
ACTION: dbooth to remove the Management Model from section 2 [done]
20:48:35 [dbooth]
dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:48:37 [Zakim]
+Dbooth
20:48:52 [scribe]
ACTION: YinLeng to verify that the Management Stakeholder section is using the correct text [done]
20:50:21 [scribe]
ACTION: YinLeng to verify that management terms are ok in Glossary [done]
20:50:33 [dbooth]
dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:50:40 [scribe]
ACTION: MikeC to add Abbie's security text to next week's agenda [done]
20:51:19 [scribe]
topic: Abbie's security
20:52:51 [scribe]
3 questions at teh editors call:
20:52:53 [dbooth2]
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20:53:03 [scribe]
any existing text from security needs to be incorporated?
20:53:22 [scribe]
what about the requirements, duplication with requirements doc
20:53:40 [scribe]
should the securities spec be in the arch or in roger's list
20:53:57 [scribe]
Roger: needs to be preserved
20:54:36 [scribe]
roger: abbie's list is a good section. Needs to be preserved.
20:55:36 [scribe]
hugo: we had a section on trust and discovery added to abbies section
20:56:23 [scribe]
duplication of requirements less obvious now, so it is now good glue for the security section
20:57:09 [scribe]
the technologies: only place in the arch where technologies discussed. taken out for now.
20:57:52 [scribe]
Roger: I think the security specs deserve attention. The section is useful.
20:58:43 [scribe]
Abbie: i'm relaxed about this
20:58:53 [scribe]
Abbie: I added it because it was requested
20:59:09 [scribe]
Gerald: I want to see security addressed
20:59:49 [scribe]
scribe votes for annex
21:00:06 [scribe]
Mike propose an annex
21:00:20 [scribe]
frank
21:01:00 [scribe]
Roger: I like the idea. The text has a higher level of consensus than my list.
21:01:40 [mchampion]
dbooth, you're on IRC but not able to call in?
21:02:05 [mitrepauld]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/wsa/wd-wsa-arch-review2.html?rev=1.100#id2281640
21:02:16 [Zakim]
-Abbie
21:02:22 [mchampion]
ACTION: hugo will incorporate Abbies list of security specs as an appendix
21:02:23 [scribe]
ACTION: Hugo will incoporate Abibie's security as an annex
21:04:15 [scribe]
The initial version of the OWL models are in http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~softagents/WSA_Ontologies/
21:04:47 [scribe]
Topic: Mike's revision of 1.6
21:04:48 [mchampion]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/wsa/wd-wsa-arch-review2.html?rev=1.100&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-1#service_oriented_architecture
21:04:53 [dbooth]
rrsagent, where am i?
21:04:53 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-04-53
21:06:45 [scribe]
Roger: hugo's version reads more smoothly
21:07:02 [scribe]
Roger: SOA has two arch constraints: small set of simple interfaces
21:07:14 [scribe]
Roger: descriptive messages
21:09:15 [mitrepauld]
rat hole
21:09:43 [scribe]
Roger suggests using mike wording: Messages sent in a platform-neutral, standardized format delivered through the interfaces.
21:10:55 [mitrepauld]
Avoid "self-descriptive"
21:12:39 [scribe]
Agreed.
21:12:50 [scribe]
Description is part of SOA.
21:13:02 [scribe]
Third SOA constraint: describe everythign to death
21:13:46 [mitrepauld]
1.6.3 WWW is a SOA?
21:13:50 [Zakim]
+??P30
21:14:14 [scribe]
Third SOA constraint: Services, messages are described in a machine processable format
21:14:19 [dbooth]
zakim, ? is Hao
21:14:19 [Zakim]
+Hao; got it
21:14:30 [scribe]
Roger: section of REST is paltry
21:15:13 [scribe]
Roger: we can be more aggressive about what we mean
21:15:31 [scribe]
Roger: I proposed some text
21:16:17 [dbooth]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2004Jan/0144.html
21:17:04 [scribe]
oger: what should we say about REST?
21:17:31 [scribe]
Dbooth: Our arch permits both RESTful and non-RESTful Web services
21:17:47 [scribe]
Roger: No critical analysis of REST
21:18:18 [mitrepauld]
soap 1.2 provides the guidelines
21:18:50 [hugo]
Note that I have replaced in the document my #2 constraint by Mike's
21:19:17 [scribe]
Mario: REST does not include intermediaries security etc.
21:19:34 [scribe]
Roger: We should write a critical analysis of REST, SOAP etc
21:19:58 [scribe]
Mike: Will draft something
21:20:02 [dbooth]
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21:21:01 [scribe]
Roger: The world needs something on the meaning of REST
21:21:15 [Roger]
zakim, who is talking?
21:21:26 [Zakim]
Roger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike.Champion (77%), [Fujitsu] (13%), Mario (4%), Katia_Sycara (4%), PaulD (34%)
21:21:29 [scribe]
ACTION: mike will draft text on REST
21:21:37 [yinleng]
Frank, I've just checked CVS, the current version of section 3.8 is old, not my latest
21:24:56 [Roger]
zakim, who is talking?
21:25:06 [Zakim]
Roger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Fujitsu] (34%), Mario (4%), PaulD (19%)
21:26:23 [mitrepauld]
Yin Leng: set of mgmt "operations" since wsdl 1.2 has single "interface"
21:27:24 [dbooth]
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21:28:42 [mitrepauld]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2004Jan/0122.html
21:30:34 [Zakim]
+Abbie
21:32:30 [scribe]
Roger: we need a common reference version of the arch
21:33:34 [dbooth]
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21:34:58 [scribe]
pauld: The WWW is a SOA? Maybe not ...
21:35:40 [dbooth]
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21:36:00 [dbooth]
We should all print the document at 4pm US Pacific time on Friday so that we are all looking at the same version.
21:36:34 [dbooth]
US pacific time is UTC-8.
21:37:03 [scribe]
Any other comments on Abbie's security text?
21:37:53 [scribe]
Liberty Alliance to go into security annex list
21:38:29 [scribe]
Topic: agenda for the F2F
21:39:53 [scribe]
Time proportional to pages
21:40:29 [mitrepauld]
+1
21:40:36 [scribe]
Introduction needs a disproportionate amount of time
21:41:03 [scribe]
Reliability needs time
21:41:54 [scribe]
Remaining issues
21:42:08 [scribe]
The future and what we don't do
21:43:26 [mitrepauld]
MEP in 2.3.1.7
21:43:33 [scribe]
MEP text needs special thinking
21:48:50 [scribe]
Editorial comment: how about dropping 3.6? It seems vestigial
21:49:24 [scribe]
paulD: registry model seems blurry
21:50:09 [scribe]
davidB: authoratative applies to registry not to its contents
21:50:24 [scribe]
topic: mail lists
21:50:55 [scribe]
pauld: registries some are authoratative others are not.
21:51:11 [scribe]
how do you spell authorotative?
21:51:53 [scribe]
Mike: registries are auth...ive because people tend to go there
21:53:09 [scribe]
everyone is in agreement
21:53:26 [scribe]
ACTION: DavidB to revise wording on autho...ive
21:53:46 [yinleng]
Should we say "recognized" place rather than "authoritative" place to look?
21:54:14 [scribe]
topic: end of life as we know it
21:54:51 [scribe]
davidB: please ask your AC rep to voice your opinion
21:55:28 [scribe]
Katia: what happens to document, editing etc.
21:56:07 [scribe]
Only mechanical changes can be sanctioned
22:00:20 [scribe]
W3C can only promote the doc if there is an obvious continuation of some kind
22:00:37 [scribe]
private individuals and companies can mention and reference it
22:00:41 [dbooth]
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22:00:51 [scribe]
SWSL intends to reference it
22:01:26 [scribe]
Mike: plan to use it for evangelical purposes
22:02:12 [scribe]
Roger: also intends to pretend that its authorotative
22:03:12 [dbooth2]
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22:04:41 [yinleng]
Got to go now, have a good f2f!
22:04:53 [Zakim]
-yinleng
22:05:59 [mitrepauld]
got to go too, bye
22:06:04 [Zakim]
-PaulD
22:07:08 [Zakim]
-gerald
22:08:46 [dbooth]
http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/02144_f.html
22:10:11 [yinleng]
yinleng has left #ws-arch
22:11:54 [Zakim]
-Abbie
22:12:06 [Zakim]
-Mario
22:12:14 [Zakim]
-Roger
22:12:16 [Zakim]
-Hao
22:12:17 [Zakim]
-Mike.Champion
22:12:20 [Zakim]
-Hugo
22:12:21 [Zakim]
-Sinisa
22:12:22 [Zakim]
-Katia_Sycara
22:12:36 [hugo]
RRSAgent, please excuse us
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
I see 14 open action items:
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Katia to review Policy and Message models and update OWL by next week. [done] [1]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-43-16
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: dbooth to clarify term "service provider" and "service requester" and expand glossary [done] [2]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-45-44
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mike to add and wordsmith text in 3.11 choreography [pending] [3]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-12
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mike to propose changes to WS Reliability section in stakeholders perspective [pending] [4]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-29
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MikeC to ping DavidOrchard for his input on the Resource [done] [5]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-41
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Suresh to review doc and propose text on EBXML [dropped] [6]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-55
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: dbooth to remove the Management Model from section 2 [done] [7]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-47-25
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: YinLeng to verify that the Management Stakeholder section is using the correct text [done] [8]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-48-52
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: YinLeng to verify that management terms are ok in Glossary [done] [9]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-50-21
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MikeC to add Abbie's security text to next week's agenda [done] [10]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-50-40
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: hugo will incorporate Abbies list of security specs as an appendix [11]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-02-22
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Hugo will incoporate Abibie's security as an annex [12]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-02-23
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mike will draft text on REST [13]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-21-29
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DavidB to revise wording on autho...ive [14]
22:12:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-53-26