which is odd since it got my last name wrong....
somebody made the binding between your number and your name in a previous telcon
you can correct the spelling ala: Zakim, Michael is really _right spelling_
Zakim, Michael is really Michael Mealling
I don't understand 'Michael is really Michael Mealling', MikeM
Zakim, Michael is really Michael_Mealling
sorry, tim-lex, I do not see a party named 'tim-lex'
On the phone I see Ted_Hardy, TimBL (muted), Michael_Mealling, DanC, Leslie_Daigle
I'm expecting Martin Duerst, Michael Sperberg-McQueen
Howhowdy; just shifted to an outside account.
Extracted action items from last meeting:
[**1] Ted Hardie -- set up an http archive of w3c-policy@apps.ietf.org readable by the subscribers
[**2] Ted Hardie -- estimate last call on draft-freed-mime-p4-*.
[**3] Ted Hardie -- enquire with IESG members such as Harald about what's expected in a new smil draft, and whether the author has been notified.
[**4] Leslie Daigle -- update this forum on next steps [for draft-iab-char-rep]
[**5] Michael Mealling -- raise the "uri maintenance team" idea in the W3C URI CG.
On the phone I see Ted_Hardy, TimBL (muted), Michael_Mealling, DanC, Leslie_Daigle, Michael, MartinD
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/w3c-ietf-coord/2003Oct/0004.html for W3C team
agendum 1. "review of action" taken up [from DanC]
Ted's action hsn't ahppned because apps.ietf.org is in transision. ned free has health leave
danC: Can we add MIME typed to the agenda?
various: consider it part of AIANA ite,m
Leslie: It is not clear to me when the last call ends
MikeM: I was not aware of existence of this draft.
Michael SMcQ - I was but haven't teda it
[ted rejoind conferenced in ny Leslie, from outside due to fire alarm]
Whether IESG gets to look at it depnds on Ned Freed'ds progress.
Ted: Harald sent email on that which resolved question
DanC: PH sent ,ail sayingit was not resolved
Subject: SMIL media type change request (was: Re: minutes 17Jun for review
ACTION DanC: get ted's office number to PH
(action #3 is re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/w3c-ietf-coord/2003Jul/0000.html)
... i wanto know whether that doc is on thcritical parth for the new ____
I spoke with Michelle a month ago, and we can agree that there were things that were not undersood in a largercontext [sic - sribe is not following]
Martin: Should we just move aheda with teh IRI draft?
...., I realize that IRI can't wait for resource poblems elsewhere.
Ted: Internationalizing email -- rqeuest from J Klenson for a BOF.
Normally Ned would handle the BOF request,but Ned still out of action.
We do notknow whether Ned will be in Minniapolis.
Some discussions around IRI connected with that would b good.
Email folks don't understand issues which will ahpepend with mailto:
yes, Klensin. e.g. http://forum.icann.org/cctld/38BD531A00000004.html
If both URI and email mke transitions, it would be nice if they could remnain compatible though the mailto: link
Might need an update to deal with bi-di - martin
Action ietm #5: [**5] Michael Mealling -- raise the "uri maintenance team" idea in the W3C URI CG.
continues. Atleast a link from the web page exists, more effort necessary.
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
agendum 2. "WebDAV/DASL" taken up [from DanC]
Ted: Question - take DASL forard? This is abscially XML search.
Is there work on XML search in W3C? What sort of coordination needed?
ted: DASl was a sepate group for searching and locating fo the metadata in DAV.
It was separate. It is constructed in XML namespaces and elements.
Tim: So it is equiavalent to the propblem of searching an XML document?
ted: Evry resource is part of a collection - how does on scope the search to collections ro groups of collections.
There is the collection structure which is not expressed in XML relationships themselves.
XML query is targetted at searching single documents but also collections of them, butmaybe notwith the DAV-like structure.
Ted: Would XML-query be the right place to establish the relationship?
Martin: The revisiosn of xpatyh happend withing a group XQ and XSLT working closely together.
sure... folks have been popping in and out with regularity
Tim: Paul Cotton contact, as chair of XQ?
MSM: You might also want to talk to Liam Quin, whowillalso have some knowledge of DAV.
ACTION Ted: Put cochairs in touch with Liam and Paul.
DanC: MSM, does the XQ working group consider protocols for XQ iover the wire? I think Whitehead is lookoing at that.
... in response to ted's message I discussed this with [various] se resulting message [above linked]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
agendum 3. "input to URI CG" taken up [from DanC]
Ted: Discussison on the impact of new schemes and their registration on teh existing scehmes and polices of the IETf and W3C.
Do these schemes provdie possibly dangerous alternatie registration mechanisms?
Witthe DOI and indo: schemes specifcially, the DOI for example saw itself as an alternative registaryion system, and info: saw itself as a way of bringingin namespacxes wfor which they were not the authority.
These look like attempts by bother groups to bypasss the existing polices.
Question: What should the IESG do about such things?
DanC: After the march meeting, I wrote a draft about keeping IANA registries on the web. Ned Freed picked it up - any progerss.
DanC: Meanwhile, as michale said, many things are brewing,. the URI CG has not met yet, but I propose that we invite these people and tim to discuss them.
DanC: For exmaple, these grouppospose info you cannot look up, which eth TAG considers a bad idea.
ted; LArry is working on non-ietf trees.
there is a gripe that the process in the ietf tree takes too lonmg.
This is disingenuous for doi as they have never put in a regstration.
DOI hand handles have ebeen part of the URN scheme going back to 1994.
Thereare falgs in the ___ algorithm for accommodating handles.
They are poposing a resolution system which replaces DNS where DNS fits in.
They refused to coorperate as a URN scheme becase they wantd to be a full URI scheme.
Ted: I could ocme to themeeting - depedns on when and where.
[attempts to discuss calendaring for URI CG meeting]
Ted: last 1.5 weeks of this month are bad for me
I'll be in chicago then open for a week before the ietfv meeting
ACTION DanC propose a meeting with 7 days notice
next week , e.g. Fri, and week before IETF look less bad than others
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
4. IANA registry referencing [from DanC]
agendum 4. "IANA registry referencing" taken up [from DanC]
the draft has expired but has been reposted
There is a TAG issue about media types and URIs.
The TAG said use URIs for importan things.
So, what areth URIs for inetrnet media types?
IANA has a web site, but no policy for persistence.
Ned took and action to take the issue to the IANA folks.
Recently, MicahelM pointed out tht there is a BCP for using URNs.
MM: Do you wnat to be anble to dereference this, or encode all theattrributes too?
DanC: refer is essential, formal spec is fragvy.
so the URN with DDDS would be derferencing here?
Tim: You don't need to encode the attributes, because they are only read when you understand the internet conet type name
leslie: the polices may not be consistent with the iana expectations
but leavingthat aside, even assuming that is dioable, it is not clear to me what you expect a the end fo the day
If we had a URI scheme which would dereference it ..
MM: you may need to change iana.org to something different.
danc: are ou claimingthat ddds provdies persistence?
mm; If we go danc's way you'd never get new URI schemes.
leslie ... it isnot the ietf's veiew that that is possible
Leslie: In the particular case of iana.org we concluded that that was a dubious thing?
We can do this as an open battle, or we can do it collegially.
An individal draft does have to be pushed. - mm
Ted; It has to be an IESG member if it is a BCP.
Danc: anyone else feelobliged to pick up the action of ned's?
leslie: If we did, it would have to be Ted.
Leslie: Or you can send it to the RDF editor yourself.
Ted; That is a mechanistic thing - but in this case as a proposed BCP it would boiuce back.
Note: the key issue is ip delegation, which is not an IETF function, as opposed to protocol parameters which are.
(Geoff Huston's public plenary talk about this)
ironic that it comes from the google cache, eh?
oh, I see, google is providing ppt->html service, not persistence, in this case.
It coems from eth google cache only as a ppot -> standards translator
Martin: Aslso similar iana issue arrises for ____
here's the id version, too: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-iana-03.txt
Leslie: We have a philosophical difference with you as to whether a domain name should ever be used in an identifier.
I ahve not been aprt of these discisions so this is just from reports.
404 @ http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-mime-p4-00.txt sigh
tim, does that mean you're off the call?
with the goal of making it possible for the mime type + fragod defining document to be defined bythe same org as defines the format.
200 @ http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-mime-p4-03.txt
For exmpale, for postscript it might be an adobe document.
There are a numebr of people in W3C who are trying to get recogncition that the element scheme in XPointer should become the recognized fragid syntax in XML.
The XML Core WG, the RFC3032 editors and teh w3C TAg and those present ar interested about this.
I am hereto learnwere er are and where conflicet may lie.
Martin: You could ask for a comment for the last call of ned's draft.
Dan, I don't understand why you are getting a 404.
Martin: yes,it allwos for registrations which register external standards.
Ted; That is the first time we have done something liek that.
MSM: Are we trying to p[ersuaede th RFC 3023 authors to change it or should the document go into the XML spec?
The W3C TAG concluded that the two be in eth XML spec.
Tim: It is broken for part fo a spec to be in 1 doc and part in another when they ar erevieds difefrently and in different ors.
DanC: Example is multiple root elemenst - allowed by mime type but not by xml spec
mm: Does the document address the issuesof how the ietf would be able to review a W3C spec?
martin d: There are some assumptions about how this is done.
you have to send it to the types-review list ... they they should be explicit .
Clealry the document ahs to be publically avauilable.
md: When I talked with Frad in SFO we had some discsuiionsabout what stages in w3c process we should require people to do what.
hmm... 3.2.7 Requirements specific to XML media types
... the draft at the moment does not mention w3c process atges, as it i snot a w3c-specific document.
md: ... for exmpale you must have it by candidate rec
ld: is this specific to the m,ime type registration pocess ro more general?
md; There are some rfcs out hter which defien thinsg like HTML, and we publish new specificatiosn, and we have the question of what happens to the old RFCs.
... things need to be obsolted by something else, which could be a pointer to the new spec.
leslie: The RFC series has vendor and FYI series ... doe sth same ahppen?
NOT vendor & fyi series -- STD and BCP numbers
STD numbers don't change even as the underlying rfc numbers are updated
We have "latest version" lsist whcih cover reveiisons but not new major versions.
Leslie: How to work together with email?
proposal: remindrers get sent arount to people who have not doen action items
On IRC I see MSM, hardie, leslie, Ralph, RRSAgent, Zakim, timbl, DanC, MikeM
Friday, February 6, 2004, at 1:00:00 PM Boston time = Friday, February 6, 2004, at 18:00:00 UTC per http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=6&month=2&year=2004&hour=13&min=0&sec=0&p1=43
sorry, I dropped out due to the time limit (charge protection) of 1.5h on my calling card.
At that time, my laptop had already run out of power, and I therefore didn't have the
I hope you haven't scheduled the next meeting on a Tuesday
I have worked hard last time to have this one on a Wednesday :-)
timbl, for previous IETF/W3C calls, the scribe has (a) formatted the minutes as complete sentences (b) mailed them to the w3c-policy list for review, and after 7 days (c) released them to the public
ACTION: DanC to get ted's office number to PH [1]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/10/08-ietf-irc#T17-23-00
ACTION: Ted to Put cochairs in touch with Liam and Paul. [2]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/10/08-ietf-irc#T17-36-49